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Rlan
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:09 AM)
Rlan's Avatar
With the recent discussions of piracy for the PC (seen here), I thought it might be interesting to see similar numbers for the other, possibly easiest thing to pirate ever console - the PSP.

The PSP can be turned into a pirating machine purely by installing Custom Firmware - other uses include a Playstation Player to play your own PSOne games on the thing [Which is what I used it for] or use emulators for other consoles like Megadrive, SNES, or even just applications for taking PSP images, DivX playback. etc, or purely homebrew applications of games.

Incidentily, I know a dude who got a job as a games programmer purely by some of the homebrew games he was working on in the PSP!

Anyhow, we know PSPs are selling but the software really isn't. So I went to a Torrent site (Don't think I can mention it anyway) which has a number of people who have downloaded the torrent file from that site directly - so this is just one site.

Let's have a look. I decided to choose some recent big games that were released, some of the bigger games of last year, and some games which were critically acclaimed but sold like shit.

God of War: Chains of Olympus - 94,154
Patapon - 112,183
Ratchet & Clank - Size Matters - 197,113
Crush - 48,959
LOCO ROCO - 163,904
Wipeout Pulse - 116,965
Castlevania X Chronicles - 102,354
Metal Gear Solid - Portable Ops (Not Including Plus) - 231,054
Burnout Dominator - 269,486

This is just one website, not including private trackers that keep to themselves or many other huge download portals, and I'm sure some torrents were taken down from this website anyhow (Looking up either GTA PSP games brought back very small numbers), but even then this is pretty big.

Is there anything Sony can do about this? Maybe cheaper prices? It's really like the Dreamcast all over again, except this time we have internet speeds that can actually download games in a minimum amount of time. Discuss.
Kintaro
Worships the porcelain goddess
(03-08-2008, 08:09 AM)
Kintaro's Avatar
K, now do Wii, PS2, and 360.
Kuran
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:11 AM)
Kuran's Avatar
This is depressing.

I don't want to know how many people downloaded Monster Hunter Freedom 2 :(
Metal Gear?!
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:12 AM)
Metal Gear?!'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Kuran

I don't want to know how many people downloaded Monster Hunter Freedom 2 :(

Would that do you any good if you couldn't play online?
bjork
(03-08-2008, 08:12 AM)
bjork's Avatar
I got one to play Pirates! and Test Drive Unlimited. I also picked up a few other games, but I never really considered piracy on it. Too much work involved imho.
Kagari
Please understand.
(03-08-2008, 08:12 AM)
Kagari's Avatar
D:...
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
(03-08-2008, 08:13 AM)
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well, psp piracy was warded off for a little while because they needed to install new firmware to play newer games, but that failed because they exploited it in the beginning.

with PS3, you need to have up to date firmware to connect online.

its less of a big deal with the PSP, though, because most games aren't online or even need to be online to play, so you can't enact that rule to it.

its probably not possible at this point. they'd have to go back in time and patch all those exploits.
Kuran
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:13 AM)
Kuran's Avatar

Originally Posted by Metal Gear?!

Would that do you any good if you couldn't play online?


I don't get it? :/

It has probably been downloaded three times more then it was bought. Capcom's likely answer? No Freedom 2G for us!
Lobster
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:14 AM)
Wheres that guy from the MC sales threads?

iidesuyo or something?

He should have a look at this and stop being such a jack ass.

Castlevania X Chronicles - 102,354

Thats really fucking heartbreaking :\
Mefisutoferesu
(03-08-2008, 08:14 AM)
Those are 1 day's worth of numbers? And you should use mininova for this little experiment, since that's the reference.
kassatsu
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:16 AM)
kassatsu's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kuran

I don't get it? :/

It has probably been downloaded three times more then it was bought. Capcom's likely answer? No Freedom 2G for us!

Piracy is worse in Asia. I bet the majority of the IPs on these torrents are from Asian countries.
SickBoy
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:17 AM)
SickBoy's Avatar

Originally Posted by Rlan

With the recent discussions of piracy for the PC (seen here), I thought it might be interesting to see similar numbers for the other, possibly easiest thing to pirate ever console - the PSP.

The PSP can be turned into a pirating machine purely by installing Custom Firmware - other uses include a Playstation Player to play your own PSOne games on the thing [Which is what I used it for] or use emulators for other consoles like Megadrive, SNES, or even just applications for taking PSP images, DivX playback. etc, or purely homebrew applications of games.

Is there anything Sony can do about this? Maybe cheaper prices? It's really like the Dreamcast all over again, except this time we have internet speeds that can actually download games in a minimum amount of time. Discuss.

Patapon's only $20.. how much cheaper do they need? (I'm interested to see the NPD numbers, though, I think it may have sold fairly well)

I don't know what the overall impact is.... hard to say because I think the PSX had a pretty active piracy scene as well.... and Xbox and PS2 could ultimately use pirated games for the price of a rental -- just rip discs to HD at your heart's content.

DS surely suffers too. Clearly it's still economic to develop games, but I wonder what the financial impact of piracy (i.e: how much they actually lose in would've-been sales) actually works out to... and I wonder if the consumer would see any break if that impact didn't exist.
Yoshi
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:17 AM)
Yoshi's Avatar
Quite big (and sad) numbers, but I'm not sure that the majority of these downloads are lost sales. I don't think Sony can do anything against it, other than trying to update the firmware faster than it's cracked.
NolbertoS
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:17 AM)
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Piracy is ruining the PSP, but at least me and countless others are giving the PSP some lifeline by buying some PSP games. I owe about 100 PSP games now, mostly got them on sale, but still, bought them when I got the chance. Sony has to clean up it's act and get crackin' on the hackers, like Nintendo is trying to do against China and Hong Kong with the R chip.
kassatsu
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kuran

This is depressing.

I don't want to know how many people downloaded Monster Hunter Freedom 2 :(

Looks to be around 20K (50K at the most) when adding all the torrents from a certain tracker. These were only the US release though, didn't count MULTI5 ones.
rollingstart
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:19 AM)
I would imagine piracy on the PSP would be quite high considering how simple it is. I mean, I use CFW on my PSP for homebrew and the ability to change clock speeds, but the same CFW allows you to play downloaded games easily. I really do like my homebrew and other CFW features on my PSP, but I do wish Sony had a better way of dealing with piracy on the system these great games would get more sales.

DXC needs the sales! stop all the downloading! I want Castlevania 3 done next and you bastards better not hinder that plan!

Originally Posted by NolbertoS

Piracy is ruining the PSP, but at least me and countless others are giving the PSP some lifeline by buying some PSP games. I owe about 100 PSP games now, mostly got them on sale, but still, bought them when I got the chance. Sony has to clean up it's act and get crackin' on the hackers, like Nintendo is trying to do against China and Hong Kong with the R chip.

100 psp games?! that is crazy, I have a good bunch from different regions (like Pursuit Force euro edition, tons and tons from Japan, and all the rest from the states), but I dont think I could even fit 100 psp games on my shelf.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
(03-08-2008, 08:19 AM)
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if even one of those people downloading it would have bought the game instead of downloading it had it not been possible otherwise, then it would be a quantifiable loss to piracy....
rollingstart
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:22 AM)
also, Patapon and Loco Roco both had demos, so no excuses fly for those two.
jaundicejuice
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:23 AM)
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Could ayone dig up the torrents vs sales numbers for Megaman Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X?
slidewinder
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:24 AM)
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For all we know, each of those numbers could've been the result of one individual downloading the torrent file that many times.

The truth of the matter is that the relatively strong PSP hardware sales we see alongside pathetic software sales just means that most people are only buying the PSP so that they can encode their DVD movies to h264 MP4 (or was it AACS? Blu-Ray? That's Sony, right?) and watch them on it.

People aren't buying games because the games don't appeal to them and, generally, just aren't very good, at least when compared to the never-ending stream of awesome games with amazing gameplay (such as CONTRA 4 and countless others, etc.) that the competition offers.

Piracy has nothing to do with anything, and, if it does, it only affects "the competition" (which has incredible games that I can't be bothered to remember) more.
DarkMehm
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:25 AM)
Let's have a look at Wii (from mininova):

SMG: 49,603
MP3: 15,552
Zelda TP: 132,964

Doesn't look that much better to me...
kassatsu
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by jaundicejuice

Could ayone dig up the torrents vs sales numbers for Megaman Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X?

45k Powered Up
53.4k Maverick

This is the number of downloads of the .torrent file from a certain tracker. (US release rips only)
Kagari
Please understand.
(03-08-2008, 08:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Linkzg

also, Patapon and Loco Roco both had demos, so no excuses fly for those two.

Considering Patapon is 20 FREAKING dollars... yeah, no excuse.
aktham
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:29 AM)
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People will always find ways to pirate games/movies/music and much much more. Is this new to you guys?
Pein
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:29 AM)
Pein's Avatar
wtf patapon is only $20 there's no reason to pirate that game
Xiaoki
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:30 AM)
Piracy is still a huge problem on the PSP and it needs to stop.

In a way, the piracy problem with the PSP reminds me of the rampant cheating in PSO on the Dreamcast. Everyone was doing it because it was so easy to do and Sega did practically nothing to stop it.

Sony needs to DRM the hell out of the PSP2 to make sure developers have faith that this won't happen again.
Replicant
There's a duck in the room
There's a duck i-OWWWW
(03-08-2008, 08:30 AM)
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It pissed me off that people actually pirated Patapon. How do developers suppose to come up with original and interesting game if this is the kind of mentality that some people have?
Andy787
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:30 AM)

Originally Posted by Rlan

Is there anything Sony can do about this? Maybe cheaper prices?

It has nothing to do with prices. People need to stop looking at piracy like it is the fault of the content creator. Patapon is the cheapest game on that list, and one of the most quickly pirated in a comparatively short amount of time since release.

You don't blame a person who's door was unlocked for the theft of his belongings.
f_elz
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:31 AM)
people who pirate probably were never going to buy the game anyways.
Lobster
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:32 AM)

Originally Posted by DarkMehm

Let's have a look at Wii (from mininova):

SMG: 49,603
MP3: 15,552
Zelda TP: 132,964

Doesn't look that much better to me...

Holy shit..and thats only one webite!

edit:

I know I shouldn't know..but what about NMH?

Originally Posted by f_elz

people who pirate probably were never going to buy the game anyways.

Thats not a valid excuse >:(
medrew
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:36 AM)

Originally Posted by f_elz

people who pirate probably were never going to buy the game anyways.

if the people who were never going to buy the games then they don't deserve to play them.

Originally Posted by Lobster

Holy shit..and thats only one webite!

mininova is more of an aggregator I believe. so stuff from the piratebay and co are listed there.
Andy787
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:36 AM)

Originally Posted by slidewinder

For all we know, each of those numbers could've been the result of one individual downloading the torrent file that many times.

The truth of the matter is that the relatively strong PSP hardware sales we see alongside pathetic software sales just means that most people are only buying the PSP so that they can encode their DVD movies to h264 MP4 (or was it AACS? Blu-Ray? That's Sony, right?) and watch them on it.

People aren't buying games because the games don't appeal to them and, generally, just aren't very good, at least when compared to the never-ending stream of awesome games with amazing gameplay (such as CONTRA 4 and countless others, etc.) that the competition offers.

Piracy has nothing to do with anything, and, if it does, it only affects "the competition" (which has incredible games that I can't be bothered to remember) more.

Oh shut the fuck up.

Originally Posted by f_elz

people who pirate probably were never going to buy the game anyways.

Then they shouldn't have the right to play it.
DarkMehm
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:36 AM)

Originally Posted by Lobster

I know I shouldn't know..but what about NMH?

NMH: 31,412
dead souls
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:37 AM)
Piracy is a problem on all systems right? Why are PSP fans always using it as an excuse for the overall lackluster software sales on the system?

I doubt every PSP owner is Capt. Jack Sparrow or One-Eyed Willy.
f_elz
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:37 AM)
i know, but happens to software of all kinds. photoshop is pirated like crazy.
tak
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:38 AM)
I don't think you can really look at download numbers and correlate them with lost potential sales numbers. The majority of people that pirate are "collectors." They download a lot of games they're not interested in just to have them.
fistfulofmetal
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:38 AM)

Originally Posted by Lobster


Thats not a valid excuse >:(


But it is true. Just because you see 100k pirating a game, it doesn't mean that is 100k of lost sales.

People pirate for the same reason people rent games. I Gamefly most my games because I have no interest in purchasing them. If I wasn't able to Gamefly a them, I simply wouldn't play them.
laesperanzapaz
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:41 AM)

Originally Posted by Linkzg

I would imagine piracy on the PSP would be quite high considering how simple it is. I mean, I use CFW on my PSP for homebrew and the ability to change clock speeds, but the same CFW allows you to play downloaded games easily. I really do like my homebrew and other CFW features on my PSP, but I do wish Sony had a better way of dealing with piracy on the system these great games would get more sales.

DXC needs the sales! stop all the downloading! I want Castlevania 3 done next and you bastards better not hinder that plan!



100 psp games?! that is crazy, I have a good bunch from different regions (like Pursuit Force euro edition, tons and tons from Japan, and all the rest from the states), but I dont think I could even fit 100 psp games on my shelf.

ur one of the pirates! gaf, get him!
TAJ
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:42 AM)
TAJ's Avatar

Originally Posted by Rlan

possibly easiest thing to pirate ever console - the PSP.

Dreamcast easily wins that contest. You could play pirated discs without mods of any kind, hardware or software. (didn't even need a boot disc)
seb
Member (revoked)
(03-08-2008, 08:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Kintaro

K, now do Wii, PS2, and 360.

actually, just going by number of torrents available is enough to establish a TOP 10:

Windows 22106
PSP 6709
PS 2 6056
XBox 1692
Nintendo DS 1559
Wii 1333
PS X 1223
Other platforms 1218
ROMS / Retro 1000
XBox 360 645
Dreamcast 595
Game fixes/patches 556
Windows - Kids Games 449
GameCube 429
Video Demonstrations 308
Mobile phones 271
Mac 222
Linux 114
Sega Saturn 86
Palm, PocketPC & IPAQ 81

I bolded currently available platforms. Note: PS3 still resists, Wii is going strong already.
Lobster
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:43 AM)

Originally Posted by DarkMehm

NMH: 31,412

oh

my

god

:(
f_elz
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:43 AM)

Originally Posted by TAJ

Dreamcast easily wins that contest. You could play pirated discs without mods of any kind, hardware or software. (didn't even need a boot disc)

yeah :(
Neo C.
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:46 AM)
Neo C.'s Avatar

Originally Posted by dead souls

Piracy is a problem on all systems right? Why are PSP fans always using it as an excuse for the overall lackluster software sales on the system?

Because it's really easy to play pirated games on the PSP. Though it's quite easy to get pirated software for DS too...
Kagari
Please understand.
(03-08-2008, 08:46 AM)
Kagari's Avatar
I'm really surprised the PS3 hasn't been hacked yet...
NolbertoS
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Linkzg

I would imagine piracy on the PSP would be quite high considering how simple it is. I mean, I use CFW on my PSP for homebrew and the ability to change clock speeds, but the same CFW allows you to play downloaded games easily. I really do like my homebrew and other CFW features on my PSP, but I do wish Sony had a better way of dealing with piracy on the system these great games would get more sales.

DXC needs the sales! stop all the downloading! I want Castlevania 3 done next and you bastards better not hinder that plan!



100 psp games?! that is crazy, I have a good bunch from different regions (like Pursuit Force euro edition, tons and tons from Japan, and all the rest from the states), but I dont think I could even fit 100 psp games on my shelf.


Like I said, helping Sony out and at the same time, I'm a collector and only buy games when their on clearance or sale, thus having a huge library of PSP games and growing. I detest piracy on any system, console or portable. I'll admit that my friends tried to get me into d/l'ing PSP games and SNES games in the past, but I decided, "Why the fuck d/l a rom and play on a comp, when having the "actual" disk is far worth more than some "file" and probably be worth something. I'm not into games, just for playing, but collecting to.
Neo C.
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:49 AM)
Neo C.'s Avatar

Originally Posted by seb

I bolded currently available platforms. Note: PS3 still resists, Wii is going strong already.

The advantage of Blu-Ray. Or: Do you like to download 25 to 50 GB? :p
kassatsu
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:50 AM)
kassatsu's Avatar

Originally Posted by medrew

mininova is more of an aggregator I believe. so stuff from the piratebay and co are listed there.

But it only counts the number of .torrent downloads from the mininova site, not the number of completed downloads on the torrent itself.
MrTroubleMaker
(03-08-2008, 08:51 AM)
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this makes me feel sick :(
underfooter
Banned
(03-08-2008, 08:53 AM)
I steal innocence.
tak
Member
(03-08-2008, 08:54 AM)

Originally Posted by Kagari

I'm really surprised the PS3 hasn't been hacked yet...

The constant firmware updates, game sizes. and complexity of the system has been a problem. Plus, the people that do that type of stuff have not been attracted to the platform for various reasons. I'm sure things will start to change this year.

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