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[Hcoregamer00]

Piracy its driving the psp sales right now not to mention that it helps with the 360 ones. It will always exist. As long as devs delay games especially in Europe (GOW:CoO for psp being delayed to 28th of March but is available NOW in the US)people who want to play NOW and not wait almost a month will download it. I know about the localizations the censoring blah blah but maybe the devs should sort that out before releasing anywhere.

Piracy in any level is wrong.

The people who will pirate the PSP know that they are part of the problem because most will not double dip and support the localized version, thus ensuring that the next PSP games will be delayed even more and *gasp* not even get a release. This is a vicious cycle that leads to nowhere quite fast.

If we lived in an world where people used piracy to truly use games as a form of really previewing the games, and buying when they like it, then it would be fine. Unfortunately a majority use it as a substitution of buying the real thing, which in turn is NOT what piracy should be used for. Of course, even using piracy to "preview" games is an absurd argument, so I am not using it to justify piracy. I was merely pointing out that using it in a more honorable manner would not cause it to be looked at so negatively in this hobby.

 

[wazoo]

Piracy is like stealing, except when you steal a car, you know you are doing wrong, here, pirates help the industry ..

Piracy has always been a double edged sword. If small, it can help drive sales, if too big, it will kill the platform in the end, but pirates do not care, they will move on the next one.

VG is a market, where money is made from software licences, not from hardware, except Nintendo. By buying only the hardware, you are just helping Sony to get in red. The only reason PSP is not dead by Sony is pride, memory stick sales and hopeless idea that someday they will recover.

 

[M3d10n]

Are you guys surprised by those numbers? Oh, you must be mostly USA and Europe residents, who often forget there is a whole world out there that does not buy games.

What you're seeing here is a small number of people who are actually capable and knowledgeable enough to download their own games. There are at least 100x more people out there who just chip their consoles and buy their burned games at corner game shops.

In Brazil alone I estimate there might be at least one million PS2s that never player an original game, ever. The PSOne, which was much cheaper back then, was a lot worse. I wouldn't be surprised if it had sold more than 3 million units here, every damn kid had one back then, even the low-income ones (since they could play for the console in a dozen or more installments that fit their income).

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

zomg you mean people become dirty fucking thieves if there aren't sufficient consequences to activate their right-below-the-surface cowardice?

i'm soooo fucking shocked

 

[wazoo]

zomg you mean people become dirty fucking thieves if there aren't sufficient consequences to activate their right-below-the-surface cowardice?

i'm soooo fucking shocked

exactly, that is the great thing on humanity Internet told us

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

exactly, that is the great thing on humanity Internet told us

Didn't take a genius to see human beings are selfish, opportunistic, animalistic douchebags even before the net was around.

I recommend those who take issue with this state of affairs either join the crowd or stop caring, cuz you aren't going to change basic nature.

 

[Luckyman]

These numbers tell nothing. Majority of people who warez are not going to buy the game anyway. They just download it because they can.

God of War: Chains of Olympus will still be the biggest seller this year. Maybe it will hit NPD top 10. :lol

 

[65536]

.

 

[Fio]

These numbers are in the same level of the other consoles/PC.
Piracy is not the main cause why PSP software doesn't sell.

 

[stressboy]

I downloaded GoW CoO but purchased GoW 1 and 2 =D

And only your 3rd post.

 

[jeremy_ricci]

The question is, are these one day stats, or total stats?

The PC thread was one day stats IIRC.

 

[Redd]

Sad really but what can you do besides paying for the game. Thanks to the internets you can pirate alot of things if you look hard enough.

 

[Metalmurphy]

How are the numbers for the Xbox 360 on that same torrent website?

 

[jmdajr]

complete bullshit, makes me angry

 

[oneHeero]

Is buying a stolen game the same as pirating the game? Does it count as a +1 for NPD if its stolen? I mean the store buys the game and if they are missing one and ell the rest they have to buy more right? Does it count or??

Not that I've done this, dont have a way, but I am curious, I see games on sell on CL all the time, new, and wondered if it counted.

 

[Neo C.]

I remember people saying that the PS2 wouldn't be pirated because no one would want to download a 4-9GB DVD image. No one will ever need more than 640kb RAM, right?

To be fair, it was pretty annoying if you had somewhat like 56kb per second.:lol

Of course the advantage of a big size won't last forever, I've made the statement in regards of today's piracy.

 

[CrushDance]

For all we know, each of those numbers could've been the result of one individual downloading the torrent file that many times.

The truth of the matter is that the relatively strong PSP hardware sales we see alongside pathetic software sales just means that most people are only buying the PSP so that they can encode their DVD movies to h264 MP4 (or was it AACS? Blu-Ray? That's Sony, right?) and watch them on it.

People aren't buying games because the games don't appeal to them and, generally, just aren't very good, at least when compared to the never-ending stream of awesome games with amazing gameplay (such as CONTRA 4 and countless others, etc.) that the competition offers.

Piracy has nothing to do with anything, and, if it does, it only affects "the competition" (which has incredible games that I can't be bothered to remember) more.

 

[wazoo]

did Contra4 not sell like shit on DS

Anybody has numbers ?

 

[batbeg]

Why the hell are people trying to defend this? Sweet Jesus...

 

[Xyphie]

How are the numbers for the Xbox 360 on that same torrent website?

I collected numbers for some semi-new 360 titles.

~43,000 Devil May Cry 4
~49,000 Burnout Paradise

 

[Neo C.]

There are at least 100x more people out there who just chip their consoles and buy their burned games at corner game shops.

In Brazil alone I estimate there might be at least one million PS2s that never player an original game, ever. The PSOne, which was much cheaper back then, was a lot worse. I wouldn't be surprised if it had sold more than 3 million units here, every damn kid had one back then, even the low-income ones (since they could play for the console in a dozen or more installments that fit their income).

It's more or less an govermental thing. I remember there were much more pirated games than original games in Hongkong years ago, but the number of pirated games decreases gradually in the last few years.

Basically a government goes aggressively against piracy if their national companies suffer from it. China for example increases their effort against piracy because they finally have some own trademark products.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

dirty poors

 

[neptunes]

How many of those come from china?

 

[Jonnyram]

if even one of those people downloading it would have bought the game instead of downloading it had it not been possible otherwise, then it would be a quantifiable loss to piracy....

I don't know if this has been said already, because this thread is quite big as it is, but I have downloaded torrents of most of the PSP games I own so I can run them off memory stick. I could, theoretically, rip them to memory stick myself, but it's way more hassle than downloading, so I just download. Dunno if it's even legit to say that on GAF, considering the greyness of what I'm doing, but since I see nothing ethically wrong with it, I will freely admit it.

 

[Danj]

I could, theoretically, rip them to memory stick myself, but it's way more hassle than downloading

Unless you're using some really old CFW version, it's not. You can literally select UMD as the USB target and drag-and-drop the ISO file now. Of course you'd still need to compress it and/or remove unneeded stuff with UMDGen, but still... it's not rocket science like it used to be.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"I don't know if this has been said already, because this thread is quite big as it is, but I have downloaded torrents of most of the PSP games I own so I can run them off memory stick. I could, theoretically, rip them to memory stick myself, but it's way more hassle than downloading, so I just download. Dunno if it's even legit to say that on GAF, considering the greyness of what I'm doing, but since I see nothing ethically wrong with it, I will freely admit it."


How is it more of a hassle now? It takes less than 5 minutes to rip a 1.8GB umd and how many hours to download the torrent? I hate the hassle of getting it done quicker and easier...


"Unless you're using some really old CFW version, it's not. You can literally select UMD as the USB target and drag-and-drop the ISO file now. Of course you'd still need to compress it and/or remove unneeded stuff with UMDGen, but still... it's not rocket science like it used to be."


What unneeded stuff?

 

[Jonnyram]

Unless you're using some really old CFW version, it's not. You can literally select UMD as the USB target and drag-and-drop the ISO file now. Of course you'd still need to compress it and/or remove unneeded stuff with UMDGen, but still... it's not rocket science like it used to be.

I can drag the ISO directly to my Mac? That's pretty cool... I'll have to look into that so I don't contribute to these statistics any more.

 

[Danj]

I can drag the ISO directly to my Mac? That's pretty cool... I'll have to look into that so I don't contribute to these statistics any more.

You should be able to, yes. In UMD USB target mode, when you connect it to your computer it shows up as a mass storage device containing the ISO file. Since the PSP is handling everything there's no special PC-only software required, so there's no reason it wouldn't work for Macs too.

 

[Danj]

"Unless you're using some really old CFW version, it's not. You can literally select UMD as the USB target and drag-and-drop the ISO file now. Of course you'd still need to compress it and/or remove unneeded stuff with UMDGen, but still... it's not rocket science like it used to be."

What unneeded stuff?

You can use UMDGen to remove things like firmware update files, files relating to other languages, and also you can use it to insert dummy files in place of FMVs I believe.

 

[Jonnyram]

Cool. I just didn't know about that feature.

 

[Y2Kev]

Wow, with 100k more DXC sales that game probably would have been megasuccessful for Konami.

 

[Rlan]

Still that number don't tell us much. It only track the amount of people who have clicked on that link from the Mininova page. Doesn't mean anything really. Until it's possible to get solid numbers from the trackers themselves on amount of finished downloads it's impossible to try to make a good guess about the amount of copies downloaded.

It's like trying to figure out how many hits a site has by comparing their google ads clicks.
(Feel free to read up on torrent, trackers, seeds, leechers, aggregators if you find it interesting)

And after that you have to weigh in newsgroups, direct downloads, ftps, im transfers and so on. As you can figure out that is impossible and is why we can't ever get solid numbers on piracy.

I repeat:

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GET SOLID NUMBERS ON PIRACY. THESE NUMBERS DON'T MEAN SHIT.

So feel free to discuss the topic but don't try to make guesses about how much money is lost etc because you really can't. A better and more productive discussion is whats being done to fight it, the history of piracy, copywright laws, consumer polls and more.

So write a topic about matters that actually can be discussed. Don't write (Includes download numbers) when it doesn't.

Do you REALLY think the industry would not have gotten and published the real numbers considering piracy if they could? Really? Instead all we have are approximate numbers that have be extrapolated by diffrent anti-piracy organisations(i.e. 'we don't know how many that actually pirates but here is a large number so give us money so we can protect you.

End rant

C'mon man. The download pages on Mininova state "Downloads: 20,028" which I would think we could at least assume means Downloads of the torrent files from that page - not just views. And the amount of people who "download and do download finish it" to the people who download the torrent and DON'T download it would probably be negligible.

Hell considering newsgroups and other sites it's probably worse - if I could I would include download numbers from a number of different sites - but only Mininova actually publish any numbers.

It's obviously not exact numbers - but even from just a small pool it looks pretty awful in the whole scheme of things. Bringing just one site to light might get some bigger sites who actually have some kind of power to find this shit out correctly and efficiently might be able to do something about it?

Geez.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"You can use UMDGen to remove things like firmware update files, files relating to other languages, and also you can use it to insert dummy files in place of FMVs I believe."


Is it even worth the effort to remove that stuff?

 

[sleeping_dragon]

actually, just going by number of torrents available is enough to establish a TOP 10:

Windows 22106
PSP 6709
PS 2 6056
XBox 1692
Nintendo DS 1559
Wii 1333
PS X 1223
Other platforms 1218
ROMS / Retro 1000
XBox 360 645
Dreamcast 595
Game fixes/patches 556
Windows - Kids Games 449
GameCube 429
Video Demonstrations 308
Mobile phones 271
Mac 222
Linux 114
Sega Saturn 86
Palm, PocketPC & IPAQ 81

I bolded currently available platforms. Note: PS3 still resists, Wii is going strong already.

ps3 got no love.

 

[Danj]

"You can use UMDGen to remove things like firmware update files, files relating to other languages, and also you can use it to insert dummy files in place of FMVs I believe."

Is it even worth the effort to remove that stuff?

Sure it is, you can reduce the file size by a few hundred megs in some cases. Also those things typically do not compress well since they're already compressed, so after removal the ISO might compress better.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"Sure it is, you can reduce the file size by a few hundred megs in some cases. Also those things typically do not compress well since they're already compressed, so after removal the ISO might compress better."


Ah, ya I never heard of it and didn't know if it took off a substantial enough about of data to make it worth the effort.

 

[surazal]

ps3 got no love.

I think the ability of installing linux on the ps3 actually helped against piracy. I'm guessing a large pool of talent that tries to hack consoles are the type that want to run linux on everything. By allowing them to install linux out of the box, Sony removed the motivation from that crowd. The only ones left that want to hack the PS3 are the professional pirates in the business of making mod chips. No doubt that a PS3 exploit will be found eventually. But with a smaller pool of people trying, it'll take longer.

 

[shintoki]

Lol, This is the pirate NPD:lol

 

[Jim]

I don't know if this has been said already, because this thread is quite big as it is, but I have downloaded torrents of most of the PSP games I own so I can run them off memory stick. I could, theoretically, rip them to memory stick myself, but it's way more hassle than downloading, so I just download. Dunno if it's even legit to say that on GAF, considering the greyness of what I'm doing, but since I see nothing ethically wrong with it, I will freely admit it.

So you're admitting to at least pirating the ones you don't own.
(Edit: sorry, misread it)

And in general, newer PSP games have next to no load times on the slim. I don't remember anything beyond a second or two in Patapon and GoW.

 

[Ptaaty]

Where do I fit in? I have the pandora battery coming in the mail, I have also used bitorrent to download Patapon....and I also own the actual game of Patapon.

Basically downloading is so damn easy, so fast...that I just figured why not grab it and save myself the trouble of ripping (not sure how hard it will be yet).

So I have my pile of loud ass, cumbersome, slow loading, battery eating UMDs right here. But I need to have divx playback, I need to not carry around extra UMDs (bulky when you have a few).

Well if I would have actually read up earlier on the new ease of the UMD rip...I wouldn't have even done this.

 

[shintoki]

Where do I fit in? I have the pandora battery coming in the mail, I have also used bitorrent to download Patapon....and I also own the actual game of Patapon.

Basically downloading is so damn easy, so fast...that I just figured why not grab it and save myself the trouble of ripping (not sure how hard it will be yet).

So I have my pile of loud ass, cumbersome, slow loading, battery eating UMDs right here. But I need to have divx playback, I need to not carry around extra UMDs (bulky when you have a few).

You can actually order a Pandora battery?:lol

 

[Jaeyden]

So you're admitting to at least pirating the ones you don't own.

Wow. I thought he was saying he owned a lot of PSP games, but has downloaded torrents of SOME of the games he owns...not games he doesn't own.

 

[NolbertoS]

(neutral) Jonnyram
Banned
(Today, 08:26 AM)
Reply | Quote

Wow, that was quick.

 

[bycha]

This stats are useless without info of downloads per region. I live in Eastern Europe where PSP is very popular thanks to piracy. There's 99% PSP piracy here. It would not be popular without it. People simply would not buy that thing. So they would not be customers and would not do any damage to Sony.

There are 150 million people in Russia. Around that number in Eastern Europe where salary is $500 and below and PSP game costs $40. That's USA population, where people still consume.
Add all other territories in the world with same economic situation.


So what I would like to know is stats for The West. Is this problem really that big? I'm not so sure.

 

[Testicular Sound Express]

Let's have a look at Wii (from mininova):

SMG: 49,603
MP3: 15,552
Zelda TP: 132,964

Doesn't look that much better to me...

those all sold well.

 

[The Faceless Master]

You should be able to, yes. In UMD USB target mode, when you connect it to your computer it shows up as a mass storage device containing the ISO file. Since the PSP is handling everything there's no special PC-only software required, so there's no reason it wouldn't work for Macs too.

i don't have a mac, but i recall people who do saying that the USB -> ISO copying function in custom firmwares doesn't work on Macs.

 

[Ptaaty]

You can actually order a Pandora battery?:lol

yeah...well a Datel Tool....in the US as well...

Honestly the PSP would be the perfect system to have digital distribution. It is really cool that Sony offers it through the PSN store...but it sucks because there are just a couple of games.

Something like Wipeout Pure (on there!) is a full game...priced a bit high, as used they practically give them away.

I wish Sony would offer up new games, at a decent discount, on the PSN store. I would freaking love that. Lets say God of War COO at $25 or Patapon at $15.

Well a man can dream....I haven't had a PSP for awhile but I came back for the newer games. I can't believe the insane piracy numbers! I would love it if they could stem the tide of piracy and offer a better deal to legit consumers.

 

[shuri]

If I had more time, I would like to run a trace of the posting history of the people in this thread. Grown men who act SURPRISED and SHOCKED that there is piracy happenning right now.I bet that 75% of people in this thread have posts in the OT talking about pirating animes, mp3s and movies.

There is nothing that can be done. Your weekend warriors 5 minutes analysis of going to some fuckoff torrent site and listing how much some torrent was downloaded is not even a glimpse of whats going on. Buy the games you want to support. But having DAILY threads about 'omg lol piracy this is so immoral and i am so offended' is getting REALLY, REALLY annoying.

The hypocrisy in this thread is lol

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I just can't believe Piracy is the problem.
How many people have custom firmware? Maybe 10% of the PsPopulation?

 

[ethelred]

Wow. I thought he was saying he owned a lot of PSP games, but has downloaded torrents of SOME of the games he owns...not games he doesn't own.

That was my read, too. "I've downloaded torrents for many of the PSP games I own" isn't the same as "Many of the torrents I've downloaded are PSP games I own."