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[Dragona Akehi]

Wow, alot of bannings on both sides. I still think that the Custom Firmware Thread should be banned too, hell most other gaming websites condone even posting a thread about PSP Custom Firmware, even if it's about making your PSP run faster, load faster, save battery life, etc. you're still "altering" it and that to me is how piracy gets started by "altering" the product for your own preferences, which eventually leads to more "customization" by just d/l'ing games. I'm not sure if Evillore put a sticky up their about Custom Firmware threads and what's considered thread fodder and what's considered bans, but he should lay out the rules if he hasn't. Anyways that's my $0.02. For the record, like I said earlier, I hate piracy in every form and am probably the 1% of the people who really doesn't d/l anything, from games, music, movies, etc.

This is how it works: as much as I love CFW on PSP, I loathe software piracy. Our CFW threads consist of helping people put CFW on their PSP, how to rip their own library and optimise games.

In fact it's much easier to rip your own library (be it PSP or PSX, for instance) than it is to pirate the games, which is unusual. As I mentioned earlier, it's quite easy to pick out the people insistent on pirating: Chrono Cross = MEGABUCKS comes to mind.

Surely you're tempted Dragona? I mean seriously.

Why on earth would I be "tempted"? In fact, I've bought more PSP games since I put CFW on my machine than I ever would have beforehand. It's quickly become one of my most favourite systems ever thanks to CFW, whereas I hardly touched it prior.

The fact is, even though people use CFW to pirate, people use it legitimately as well. Just like Bittorrent. Just like newsgroups. Just like the internet you're using to post.

And in terms of absolute practicality, since you probably don't believe my reasoning: it's far easier and faster to order a PSP game, wait for it to arrive and rip it myself to ensure that it is correct and there isn't some problem with the download.

In addition, if something were ever to happen to my ripped file, I can simply rip it again thanks to the loverly fact I own the physical media, which is something I like to have anyway.

Anyway, someone mentioned the PS3, and why it hasn't been hacked, they said it was because of Linux. Possibly, but more probably it's because they are supremely anal about hypervisor security. There have been exactly zero escalation vunerablities in the hypervisor (as opposed to 360), and for good reason. The hypervisor runs a kernel from microcode in the chip. No possiblity for bus eavesdropping, means you can't get the unique key to run code.

Now, I really do wish D_A or someone would hack the PS3... I'd love to be able to rip my PS2 collection and place it on the HDD so as to eliminate load times (such as those that plagued the NA release of DQVIII). I'd prolly play it more. But as you were saying it's unlikely.

 

[DubloSeven]

On the other hand, Patapon sold ~50k in its first week. For a PSP title, that is damn good.

 

[ethelred]

You must be joking I mean do you realize that 99% of cfw users are pirating games?

99%, really? I'd love to see the statistically valid study that came up with that percentage!

CFW are opening the door to piracy that's a fact.

So's the internet. We should ban that, too. Anyway, right now you sound like one of those moral crusaders so concerned about the societal rot brought on by drug use that you want to ban everything from here to space that could be perceived as opening the door to this pernicious decay. You know, most people light up with fire, so maybe we should just cut to the chase and start there.

No, I am deadly serious about the possibility of a link between installing custom firmware and buying Astonishia Stories. Proving such a link would no doubt be research worthy of the Nobel prize.

You're on.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"No, I am deadly serious about the possibility of a link between installing custom firmware and buying Astonishia Stories. Proving such a link would no doubt be research worthy of the Nobel prize."


After you guys bringing up that game so much I'm really tempted in buying it. I saw it yesterday and came really close to buying it

 

[Slavik81]

No, that step is done before you install Custom FW - ie. the only protection that is broken is that against running unsigned code on PSP on stock Firmware. Once you have custom Firmware on the machine, you use official Sony system functions to copy the disc, and official Sony ISO loader to run it.
The disc protection is never actually broken in the sense of CD-cracks or modchips. As for legality of running non-standard OS software on the machine, I honestly wouldn't know.

If I'm understanding this right, you can legally make backups using Sony tools. However, you can't use them in that way because it's blocked by software protection. You circumvent that protection by using custom firmware that doesn't check code signatures.

That's not quite how I originally understood the process to be. I didn't expect there to be a Sony backup tool and iso loader. But it's still illegal to circumvent the code signing requirements.

No, as I noted, the only difficult step is installing CFW, which is required in both cases. The only other difference is going to store as opposed to looking for a valid ISO online.

It was the additional step where you take your hardcopy and make a software copy from it that I was suggesting makes it (slightly) more difficult. But for the sake of argument, let's say its negligible. Even if they're equally difficult (ignoring payment), that's a bad move.

Were you to be able to download a signed copy that doesn't require custom firmware or back-up creation utilities or iso readers, it would be much easier for a pirate to self-justify the extra expense as something that improves their experience. This seems like it would be particularly effective against those who actually might consider buying the game.

Of course - and Digital Distribution does exactly that - the problem is retailers aren't happy with the idea(and won't be anytime soon it seems), and they are still necessary to carry the hardware.

Give it time.

Valve's been pushing it hard on PC and it's been exploding on consoles. Virtual Console, PS1 classics and Xbox Originals are just the beginning.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"It was the additional step where you take your hardcopy and make a software copy from it that I was suggesting makes it (slightly) more difficult. But for the sake of argument, let's say its negligible. Even if they're equally difficult (ignoring payment), that's a bad move."


Except it's not harder. Like me, dragona, and others have said is that you just drag and drop and if you want you use one program to compress it and all you have to do there is click load iso and then click start the rest is preset correctly to what you want. That seems a lot quicker and easier to do than waiting hours for it to finish downloading and then probably having to compress it anyhow like you would have to if you ripped it with your physical disk. I think that it's a lot easier to spend 5 mins tops to rip the disk than it is to wait hours and hours to download, except being a cheapass using your own library is quicker and easier.

"Give it time.

Valve's been pushing it hard on PC and it's been exploding on consoles. Virtual Console, PS1 classics and Xbox Originals are just the beginning."


Eh, that's something different though. The none valve stuff has only gone so well because it's stuff that retailers don't sell anymore so they aren't really losing any profit with those.

 

[Fuzzy]

I got one to play Pirates! and Test Drive Unlimited. I also picked up a few other games, but I never really considered piracy on it. Too much work involved imho.

Was I the only one to laugh?

 

[Danj]

Was I the only one to laugh?

I wonder how many pirated copies of Sid Meier's Pirates! there are...

 

[melman101]

Software piracy is a tough issue, because I mean if you look at the Dreamcast you'll see that a great system can easily get killed by piracy (amongst other factors, PS2, etc.). But I believe, and I'm pretty sure it's well accepted that Dreamcast died cause of piracy.

Now, I don't know about you but I loved the Dreamcast and for it to die so quickly, sucked.

However, the PSP has already beaten the Dreamcast in terms of it being available for 3 years already (wow, can you believe that?).

There are two things they can use to stop piracy.

1 is release demos of games. Guess what? If I play the demo, and like it, I'll buy it. It's been proven on 360, and to a lesser extent, the PS3.

2 is make better games. I have five games, Ridge Racer, MLB (original), Grand Theft Auto Liberty City Stories, Lumines, and God of War. Notice the huge gap betwen GTA and God of War. Granted, I should have bought Vice City Stories and Ratchet and Clank. I will most likely pick up Patapon, thanks to the demo.

All the other games I tried out, didn't really appeal to me. I got bored of them after 5 minutes.

I don't know, I believe, if you are going to play a game for more than a demo amount of time, you should buy it. I'm telling you, I think demos stop piracy, cause most pirates play a game for 5 minutes, and then throw it on their stack. I think it's certainly working well for 360.

-- Mel

 

[iapetus]

Hey I'll steal this TV, I was never going to buy one anyway!"

Horrible analogy, but congratulations to the RIAA and their ilk for getting people to use it. The difference, of course, is that when you steal the TV something physical has actually been taken and that TV can't be sold to someone else. When you 'steal' a game by downloading it, there's nothing to stop it being sold to someone else, and no actual loss takes place - just the opportunity cost of no longer being able to sell you the game.

Much as I dislike piracy I dislike these nasty little games of language more.

 

[ethelred]

Software piracy is a tough issue, because I mean if you look at the Dreamcast you'll see that a great system can easily get killed by piracy (amongst other factors, PS2, etc.). But I believe, and I'm pretty sure it's well accepted that Dreamcast died cause of piracy.

I love the Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast did not die because of piracy.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Was I the only one to laugh?

i did too, plus you missed the other one .. "TEST DRIVE UNLIMITED" .. get it???

I disagree. Prior to R4, cart solutions were complicated, involved multiple pieces of hardware, unreliable, and often not very compatible.
And R4 has definately not been widely available for more then a year, and certainly not widely KNOWN (as in well known to wider public then forum posters).

And bringing GBA up only supports point about piracy - it was a piracy heaven not unlike PSP, most software that was breaking even was doing so not because of selling well, but because it only needed tiny sales to offset very low development costs(average GBA title did not need to break 100k to break even).
NDS is in a completely different league with other handhelds as far as SW goes, it took less then 3 years to overtake GBA Lifetime attach rate, and by the time it's all done it may very well double it (with a higher HW LTD as well).

multiple pieces of hardware... oh wow, you have to plug something into both slots!!

complicated? unreliable? not very compatible? none of that stuff is more complicated than installing a custom firmware on PSP.

GBA game sales compared to PSP game sales is a blowout.

I love the Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast did not die because of piracy.

exactly, it died because it only sold like 8 million systems worldwide.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Wow, alot of bannings on both sides. I still think that the Custom Firmware Thread should be banned too, hell most other gaming websites condone even posting a thread about PSP Custom Firmware, even if it's about making your PSP run faster, load faster, save battery life, etc. you're still "altering" it and that to me is how piracy gets started by "altering" the product for your own preferences, which eventually leads to more "customization" by just d/l'ing games. I'm not sure if Evillore put a sticky up their about Custom Firmware threads and what's considered thread fodder and what's considered bans, but he should lay out the rules if he hasn't. Anyways that's my $0.02. For the record, like I said earlier, I hate piracy in every form and am probably the 1% of the people who really doesn't d/l anything, from games, music, movies, etc.

You own the hardware, you can do whatever you want with it. If that means writing homebrew apps, so be it. The only illegal part is the piracy, but that would be illegal regardless of the platform. PEACE.

 

[batbeg]

2 is make better games. I have five games, Ridge Racer, MLB (original), Grand Theft Auto Liberty City Stories, Lumines, and God of War. Notice the huge gap betwen GTA and God of War. Granted, I should have bought Vice City Stories and Ratchet and Clank. I will most likely pick up Patapon, thanks to the demo.

This stupid argument needs to stop. The PSP is full of a wonderful library, easily one of my favorites and people seem to think just because they didn't buy any games that there weren't any good games. I can say right now dozens of good games came out between GTA and God of War. The PSP doesn't lack any good games, nor is the three year old argument of it being a portable machine even apply anymore.

Horrible analogy, but congratulations to the RIAA and their ilk for getting people to use it.

You wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't mug and rape an elderly woman in the eye socket. Would you dare, then, pirate a DVD?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

This stupid argument needs to stop. The PSP is full of a wonderful library, easily one of my favorites and people seem to think just because they didn't buy any games that there weren't any good games. I can say right now dozens of good games came out between GTA and God of War. The PSP doesn't lack any good games, nor is the three year old argument of it being a portable machine even apply anymore.

Pretty much. I have 16 games right now (with 5 more on the way, hence my 20+ library), plus a dozen or so games I still want to buy. PSP rox.

 

[Aeana]

You wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't mug and rape an elderly woman in the eye socket. Would you dare, then, pirate a DVD?

 

[Mook1e]

The DS position on that top ten list needs to be re-checked. Look at some of those torrents. Because the DS games are so small in comparison, you have one download file holding 100+ DS games at a time!

 

[callous]

But I believe, and I'm pretty sure it's well accepted that Dreamcast died cause of piracy.

That's not my impression at all. It died because it never became popular enough.

 

[iapetus]

Pretty much. I have 16 games right now (with 5 more on the way, hence my 20+ library), plus a dozen or so games I still want to buy. PSP rox.

I've probably got more than that. And at some point over the next couple of weeks I will be ripping all of them to CSO for my own personal use, because it's a more convenient way of playing them.

 

[joshcryer]

Why on earth would I be "tempted"? In fact, I've bought more PSP games since I put CFW on my machine than I ever would have beforehand. It's quickly become one of my most favourite systems ever thanks to CFW, whereas I hardly touched it prior.

Same reason people are tempted to download music, movies, games, and other software and media that doesn't fit that category. It's easy. And cheap. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it is quite surprising to me in any case because this is not the behavior I have observed. The games I make don't even come with real copyright protection because I know it's inevitable. Fortunately I target extreme casuals so they have no problem dropping $5 for a download (BigFish/PopCap types).

We have a Top Gear thread here on the off topic forum. I would wager a good majority, say, at least 60% (probably much higher), do not live in the UK. It would then stand to reason that they are not acquiring the show via the means as it was broadcasted to.

The fact is, even though people use CFW to pirate, people use it legitimately as well. Just like Bittorrent. Just like newsgroups. Just like the internet you're using to post.

I have no doubt about that whatsoever. I don't pirate games, my hardware sucks anyway, but if I could play them I am man enough, even if it means I would get banned, to say it's tempting.

BitTorrent accounts for 1/3rd of all internet traffic. A good majority of that is the "unspeakable." Remember when TPB went down, most of EUs bandwidth dropped by a considerable margin.

And in terms of absolute practicality, since you probably don't believe my reasoning: it's far easier and faster to order a PSP game, wait for it to arrive and rip it myself to ensure that it is correct and there isn't some problem with the download.

I believe you, it just surprises me to no end. I mean, perhaps you just don't know where to go or what applications to use. For about 20 million people this isn't a problem. And certainly the OP makes an incredible point with regards to pirate downloads.

In addition, if something were ever to happen to my ripped file, I can simply rip it again thanks to the loverly fact I own the physical media, which is something I like to have anyway.

Would you feel compelled to repurchase that media in the event the data files *and* the hard media were lost (let's say you had a fire at your house, and you didn't have insurance)? Or would you be tempted to reacquire it by other means?

Now, I really do wish D_A or someone would hack the PS3... I'd love to be able to rip my PS2 collection and place it on the HDD so as to eliminate load times (such as those that plagued the NA release of DQVIII). I'd prolly play it more. But as you were saying it's unlikely.

I know a crapload about the hardware, and it's unlikely to ever be cracked. However, it's possible that this option will be in future firmware revisions, as I don't see what the problem with it would be outside of minimising sales on the PSN store.

All that said I do appreciate very much the honest and convienient aspects of using hacks to make an experience better. I was there when the RSX on the PS3 was found to be open (there's a difference here; the RSX wasn't 'hacked' nor was a code exploit found, it was merely discovered to be open, thus allowing drivers to be written). They closed it in 2 firmware revisions. It was unfortunate (especially because the first revision seemed that they were going to allow that 'hole' to exist, and it led to a friend of mine actually writing xv drivers for mplayer and X). PS3 Linux would've *rocked* if we had that access still. But there's nothing you can do, so we write software drivers, and go on our merry way. Hopefully we'll have a media center PS3 Linux (very easy to install, play movies, etc) soon, with mine and others' help.

But I guaranteee you that PS3 will not be hacked any time soon, if ever.

 

[ethelred]

I've probably got more than that. And at some point over the next couple of weeks I will be ripping all of them to CSO for my own personal use, because it's a more convenient way of playing them.

I've got about 25, 26 or so. I don't like all of them (remember: Astonishia Story!), but I like quite a few of them and a few that I really love. It's a great little system. And having the games loaded onto the memory stick absolutely is way more convenient in every sense.

I have no doubt about that whatsoever. I don't pirate games, my hardware sucks anyway, but if I could play them I am man enough, even if it means I would get banned, to say it's tempting.

I have custom firmware already. I'm all man. And I can say without any hesitation that I'm not tempted to pirate games.

 

[joshcryer]

That's very hard for me to swallow this day and age, but I'll trust the people who say it.

 

[Dorfdad]

Horrible analogy, but congratulations to the RIAA and their ilk for getting people to use it. The difference, of course, is that when you steal the TV something physical has actually been taken and that TV can't be sold to someone else. When you 'steal' a game by downloading it, there's nothing to stop it being sold to someone else, and no actual loss takes place - just the opportunity cost of no longer being able to sell you the game.

Much as I dislike piracy I dislike these nasty little games of language more.

This is probably the most logical and best written argument about piracy Ive ever read on the forums... +REP for you sir..

So if I go to a friends house and play is bought copy of Burnout and it I found it ok but was not going to buy the game because of it, the loss to the company is identical if I decided I liked it and downloaded it. in both cases the original company who designed the game does not get my money. Granted if the games were not around on the web I would have to buy it, but you are not going to shut down the internet.

Or better yet lets go further I buy used copies of the game from EBGAMES for 39.99 guess what the developer does not get ONE cent of that 39.99 EBGAMES does and they bought it for like 10.00 so they are making a profit from the original sale. Granted that original sale got the company some money but if I burn a copy of the game from my friend how is it ANY different to the game developer?

the end result is the developer does not get money from me. It's strictly a Moral issue with each individual and it usally comes down to ONE SIMPLE THING. COST!

Stop using the piracy makes us raise our costs, thats not it at all. Its the rising prices of living that cost you to raise prices, gas, talent fees etc.. It's not drive even 5% from piracy as I said before you can not charge me on POTENTIAL losses.

So here is the whole thing in one sentence.

LOWER THE DAMN COST OF GAMES TO REDUCE PIRACY AND INCREASE REVENUE.

its a proven fact that when things cost less they sell more. 2K sports years ago when competting with EA Sports released 2k3 or something for 19.99 NEW and guess what they reported that they had sold like 3x more copies than at a higher price and actually made more profit from that game doing it that way. Other companies have done this in the past as well, why they will not stick to it is beyond me.

I would in essence purchase ALOT more games and even games I was on the fence about with lower metascores if the games were 19.99 or even 29.99. Right now if a game is on the fence I will wait for it to drop to nothing and buy it for 10 or 20 dollars and guess what the developer gets ZERO of it as it was used so Im making EB games rich and the guys who designed the game get nothing from me.

Piracy would drop significantly as people would like to own original materials but when your faced with 59.99 and rising costs for games that are not showing ample improvements in AI, or game design compared to PS2 games your left paying for the graphics upgrades alone.

I would accept games to be between 8-12 hours long for 19.99 but at 59.99 people smell the greed...

 

[batbeg]

Same reason people are tempted to download music, movies, games, and other software and media that doesn't fit that category. It's easy. And cheap. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it is quite surprising to me in any case because this is not the behavior I have observed. The games I make don't even come with real copyright protection because I know it's inevitable. Fortunately I target extreme casuals so they have no problem dropping $5 for a download (BigFish/PopCap types).

Loads of people with access to the internet still buy CDs or DVDs though, this isn't really all that different. I'm not tempted to download games despite not having any money for most of the games I want, I just wait until I can get the money. Real gamers shouldn't be tempted as they should care about supporting our industry and creativity and great games.

 

[JudgeN]

LOWER THE DAMN COST OF GAMES TO REDUCE PIRACY AND INCREASE REVENUE

You will see once NPD comes out with patapon sales then you will realize that free > any price. Lower price doesn't mean games will sale, look at the PS2 alot of new games released for it now are budget priced. But they don't sale millions even with its ungodly install base. And why do people use the 2k thing for there example? It worked once but look at all those PS2 games not seeing massive increases in sales with there budget pricing.

 

[cliffbo]

Christ this is depressing! it really annoys me when people go on about how piracy doesn't hurt sales of games... how stupid is that!? look at those figure, just look at them! and like you said, that's only one site.

 

[x3sphere]

PS2 piracy was just as bad back in the day - it survived.

You also have to consider that a lot of these numbers are coming from countries such as China, where piracy is rampant.

 

[iapetus]

This is probably the most logical and best written argument about piracy Ive ever read on the forums... +REP for you sir..

Thanks, but I think you're missing a lot of my point. That lost opportunity cost is significant, and it can make the difference between success and failure for developers. The "I wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't pirated it" lie is as bad as the "every time someone pirates a game it costs us a sale" lie.

Here's how it should be: if you want to play the game, you pay for it (or rent it, or play it at the house of a friend who bought it, or whatever).

Or better yet lets go further I buy used copies of the game from EBGAMES for 39.99 guess what the developer does not get ONE cent of that 39.99 EBGAMES does and they bought it for like 10.00 so they are making a profit from the original sale. Granted that original sale got the company some money but if I burn a copy of the game from my friend how is it ANY different to the game developer?

Yup, you missed the point alright. If you buy that used game, then it's gone from the shelf. If that was the last one, the next person who wants to buy one will pay full price. And the price difference between new and used is sufficiently small that a lot of people will prefer to buy their games new rather than used. That obviously doesn't work the same way when the choice is between full price and not paying at all.

the end result is the developer does not get money from me. It's strictly a Moral issue with each individual and it usally comes down to ONE SIMPLE THING. COST!

Stop using the piracy makes us raise our costs, thats not it at all. Its the rising prices of living that cost you to raise prices, gas, talent fees etc.. It's not drive even 5% from piracy as I said before you can not charge me on POTENTIAL losses.

So here is the whole thing in one sentence.

LOWER THE DAMN COST OF GAMES TO REDUCE PIRACY AND INCREASE REVENUE.

Bull.

Because it doesn't matter what the price is, if people are willing to pirate the game, then it's always competing with a price of zero, and it's always going to lose out. The examples you give involve sales being taken from more expensive games, which is fine, but I doubt very much there was a significant difference in the number of people pirating ESPN sports games at $19.99 and $39.99 as a result of the price cuts.

That's just one more of the excuses that people who've decided they deserve something for nothing trot out, and if it's 'addressed' they'll just move on to the next one.

 

[surazal]

PS2 piracy was just as bad back in the day - it survived.

You also have to consider that a lot of these numbers are coming from countries such as China, where piracy is rampant.

The main difference was that for a long time PS2 piracy required installing a mod chip. Same with PSX piracy. Software mod piracy just makes thing too easy.

 

[camineet]

well I've bought 3 new games since I got a PSP a few weeks ago. I'm doing my part.

 

[Comic]

Hey I'll steal this TV, I was never going to buy one anyway!"

Have you ever tried to steal a TV? They're heavy :lol

Regarding piracy on the PSP, I wish there was a way to tell how the PSP would've fared without CFW. I mean, most everyone I know with CFW loves it, thinks it made the purchase of the system worthwhile, even if they ended up not liking any of the games released. (I myself have found the controls on the PSP to be less than desirable, but I'll bear it for games I enjoy.)

I wonder if the system may have tanked? Or would Sony simply stay in the game until it picked up speed? On the same note, I wonder how many PSPs are purchased with sole intent to pirate? How many that pirate the games simply can't purchase the games legally, period? (I don't mean 'can't afford', there, either.)

Man, there are just too many questions you just can't know the answer to.

 

[The S-Word]

the notion that everyone that uses custom firmware pirates games is laughable. I just bought a psp and i have a ~1gb card and i don't even think about pirating a game. I wouldn't even have the space to. With remote play i can play a ps1 game anywhere from within my ps3, i rip patapon from my actual UMD, and keep fftactics on me. It makes life that much easier.

The apps and added functionality is the real reason for cfw

 

[MysticX]

This is from a private site:

nr, name, snatches, data transferred, seeders, leechers, total, ratio
1 BioShock-XBOX360-USA-DAGGER 6,784 44.57 TB 78 1 79 78.00
2 Odin Sphere PROPER-USA-PS2DVD-DAGGER 6,742 18.14 TB 62 0 62 Inf.
3 Crysis-Razor1911 6,317 37.87 TB 349 5 354 69.80
4 Assassins.Creed.PAL.X360-Allstars 5,943 39.20 TB 137 1 138 137.00
5 God of War 2 USA PS2-ECHELON 5,835 38.33 TB 29 5 34 5.80
6 Command And Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars Kane Edition DVD9-FLT 5,707 42.54 TB 73 2 75 36.50
7 Guitar Hero III NTSC PS2DVD-DDD 5,564 16.30 TB 124 3 127 41.33
8 Ratchet and Clank Size Matters USA PSP-pSyPSP 5,387 3.62 TB 49 1 50 49.00
9 Call Of Duty 4-Razor1911 5,234 32.75 TB 255 3 258 85.00
10 Call Of Duty 4 USA XBOX360 5,228 33.02 TB 146 0 146 Inf.

 

[itxaka]

well pirates are usally males between 15-25.

Not exactly the ds demographic.

Sarcasm?

For example, making an entirely legal backup disk for a 360 game you bought would normally be totally legal (although the pirated 'backups' some unscrupulous people sell would still be illegal). However, because you'd need to circumvent the 360 disk's copy protection to make your entirely legal backup copy, it would be illegal to do so as a result of this law.

Not everybody is under the DMCA. In Spain we have the rigth to have a backup of our originals even if it means to circumvent the security on DVD/CD/360/whatever.

 

[CTLance]

No one else but me is shameless enough to admit to owning Astonishia Story.

Representing.

 

[Danj]

Not everybody is under the DMCA. In Spain we have the rigth to have a backup of our originals even if it means to circumvent the security on DVD/CD/360/whatever.

Our survey says... EH-EHHHH!!

The Spanish Congress approved the law implementing the EUCD last summer with the LEY 23/2006, de 7 de julio, por la que se modifica el texto refundido de la Ley de Propiedad Intelectual, aprobado por el Real Decreto Legislativo 1/1996, de 12 de abril. The official publication (in Spanish) is available here: 23/2006 Spanish Law implementing EUCD. The new law is enforceable and fully applicable since July 29, 2006.

EUCD is European equivalent of DMCA by the way.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I read this alot of GAF about the PSP multi-media functions but does anyone know anyone who actually only owns a PSP for multi-media functions?

I know 3 other people with PSPs. All of them own them primarily for the multimedia functions.

As far as the CFW argument goes, I think it would be a wise move for Sony to take the best features CFW offers and add them to the official firmware. Being able to put my games on memory stick instead of UMD turned a handheld with bad load times and bad battery life into the best handheld ever. In my particular case, CFW has made game sales, not lost them.

 

[kassatsu]

The main difference was that for a long time PS2 piracy required installing a mod chip. Same with PSX piracy. Software mod piracy just makes thing too easy.

Swap Magic CD's don't need a mod chip to work.

 

[M3wThr33]

Swap Magic CD's don't need a mod chip to work.

No, but you still need to PHYSICALLY take apart the PS2 to make it work. Either by adding a swap lid or removing the faceplate so that little release gizmo fits.

 

[Aeana]

<GP32 Astonishia Story R>
Representing.

I have that, too. I honestly didn't find it to be that awful. I always wonder if they really changed the PSP version a lot or something, since people say it's so terrible. I thought the GP32 version was average, possibly mediocre, but not terrible.

 

[$h@d0w]

 

[-Rogue5-]

Sorry if this stirs the pot more (for the record, I'm neither for or against piracy... that is to say, I don't try to guilt-trip people who do pirate stuff by reminding them it's illegal), but I'd argue that the bar for must-buy PSP games has to be pretty friggen high if 99% of cfw users are pirating.

Regardless I think piracy's effects are interesting -- if you're a hardcore gamer, I think you're more likely to want to pirate, and if you do, you'd also spend a shitload more money (on games that you wouldn't have otherwise purchased or rented) after playing them for "free". You'd probably end up buying more of that system's cream of the crop, too, which means the bar would be raised (you wouldn't buy a game you played if it's garbage).

On the flip-side, I think casuals only mod/hack their system's when it's easily accessible to do so (like the PSP) and it's also the casuals who WOULD NOT buy a retail copy of a game they pirated even if they absolutely loved it. Not to blame casual gamers, but yeah, I think that's where the majority of the problem would be from a money making standpoint.

Then there's the whole used-sales thing, which, again is something I believe, puts more of a dent in the industry than piracy probably does (at least in NA). I can't even think of the last game I bought new... Gears of War/ZeldaTP/Resistance maybe? I'll be picking up SSBB this week though. And that's NOT illegal or wrong in any context. Actually, I wonder if the fact that you usually pay taxes on used sales (at a store) has anything to do with it being perfectly alright.

And I mean, there's always circumstances that could potentially warrant having an illegitamate copy. For example, if you're going to be buying the Chains of Olympus PSP Slim Bundle in June, but have a phat right now, even though it is illegal, to me it doesn't really seem wrong to want to download it in the meantime. Conversely, if you couldn't download it as easy as you can, most people still wouldn't purchase it now because they know they're getting it in June as a pack-in (and they probably wouldn't care that they had to wait either). Either way Sony/Ready at Dawn wouldn't be getting the money until June, right?

 

[CTLance]

I have that, too. I honestly didn't find it to be that awful. I always wonder if they really changed the PSP version a lot or something, since people say it's so terrible. I thought the GP32 version was average, possibly mediocre, but not terrible.

In my opinion it was a pretty fun game - it had its flaws, but the attention to detail and artwork/mood made it worth it for me.

I really need to find the translation patch before it becomes lost in the depths of the net though. I only have the korean version, and besides cluelessly wandering around slaughtering wolves and stuff I didn't know what to do.

It's a damn shame the portable never really took off. I have a whole bunch of GP32 games, and nearly all of them are in korean. I seriously considered learning korean just for these games back then.

 

[Matix]

Even though I haven't personally participated in the PSP-Homebrew scene since 2005, I'm not totally against the overwhelming number of individuals who continue to be involved with hacking this handheld (many of which who have unlocked some incredible potential out of this portable playstation). Although it can't be denied that even with the few select contributers that support the PSP-homebrew community in a positive light, their are countless more that sadly abuse this opportunity for obvious illegal purposes. With that being said, the homebrew scene in general is not simply a black & white issue, but more so hangs in a vague grey area. It shouldn't be totally banned from exposure, although nor should it become so much of a necessity that it begins blinding right from wrong.

Every major gaming console/platform has some kind of hacking/homebrew scene, that sadly shelters a swarming number of software thief's as Pakistan does with terrorist (for the sensitive few, pirate =/= terrorist). But next to the PC, the PSP has now become some kind of breeding ground for these new and upcoming portable pirates. Since hacking the PSP has almost become a freaking standard, many are willing to flourish over its pleasure, before dealing with its problems. You'll see post after post, commenting on all the benefits of PSP-homebrew, but few want to admit to the damage that it causes as well.

Some poster will recommend hacking the PSP, before buying a game. Some will avoid supporting worthwhile titles, just because they might require a firmware update. Shit, some will even celebrate over a new Dark-Alex release, more so than a official developers upcoming PSP-Project. But at the end of the day, who wants to take the blame?! When a deserving PSP game doesn't sell, is the price the only problem?! When developers begin to lose faith in the platform, should the finger be pointed solely at it's creators?! Or maybe when a passionate group of creative minds, commit so much of themselves into a quality production for others to enjoy, only to be shown appreciation by another meaningless torrent download... I guess thats the fault of the developer.. right?!

I may not contribute to the PSP-homebrew scene, nor pirate games. But at the same time, even I feel responsible for the damage caused by these actions. Even though I'm not a developer, shareholders or part of SCEA viral marketing team, I am still a gamer. An as a gamer, I hate to see so many worthy game developers supported like shit from so-called gamers, cloaked as pirates.

 

[Fuzzy]

"Don't copy that floppy."

 

[mandiller]

Wow.

 

[ghibli99]

^^^ Haha! Classic.

If I had more time, I would like to run a trace of the posting history of the people in this thread. Grown men who act SURPRISED and SHOCKED that there is piracy happenning right now.I bet that 75% of people in this thread have posts in the OT talking about pirating animes, mp3s and movies.

There is nothing that can be done. Your weekend warriors 5 minutes analysis of going to some fuckoff torrent site and listing how much some torrent was downloaded is not even a glimpse of whats going on. Buy the games you want to support. But having DAILY threads about 'omg lol piracy this is so immoral and i am so offended' is getting REALLY, REALLY annoying.

The hypocrisy in this thread is lol

I agree. Having been around since the Vic-20/C=64/Apple // days, piracy has been a part of the software industry for as long as I can remember. Kids at school would bring programs on floppy disk to school to trade, etc. Hell, I think the schools themselves had pirated software in their libraries (I distinctly remember playing Karateka at school when I was in 4th grade or so and the "Cracked by The Racketeers" splash screen appearing).

People acted shocked when they started seeing devices like the Super Magicom for the SNES ("SNES games on floppies, wow!" people would say), and where did they see them? In the pages of EGM. LOL I think the whole Metallica/RIAA/Napster thing, which was highly publicized, likely increased music/MP3 piracy, since you opened the doors to a whole new group of folks who had no idea this was possible. Same with games/software. You start talking about sites like Mininova, newsgroups, etc. to the general public or on the news, and do you think you're going to make the problem go away? Hell no.

It'd be interesting to know if there was a be-all, end-all solution, but as Jeff Goldblum said in that shitty dinosaur movie, "Nature finds a way." As consumers, we can support good developers by buying the games we deem worthy of buying, and encouraging our friends and families to do the same. When I tell my friends about a new game, I'll generally tell them where they can get it for the cheapest price, since they go in getting a good deal (or the ability to find a difficult-to-source title).

 

[ChaoticBlue]

K, now do Wii, PS2, and 360.

those consoles don't have much of a problem as the psp does. you have to physically mod those systems which is why they are not really suffering from piracy as much as the psp.

 

[batbeg]

No, but you still need to PHYSICALLY take apart the PS2 to make it work. Either by adding a swap lid or removing the faceplate so that little release gizmo fits.

Not on the Slim PS2.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

well when the largest draw for the hardware for years was piracy, this really isnt surprising at all. A good deal of hardware moved because of pirates/homebrewers so this is just the other drawback of that.