[Anton Sugar]

Chills every time I watch that scene. Empire still reigns higher for me though - on top with Munich and Schindler. These are the types of magic movie moments that I just can't see Nolan pulling off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19UROAIbtlw

I did think this scene was fucking amazing.

I don't get this much either. I see quite a bit of emotion in almost any Nolan character. I just don't think those emotions are universal to everyone, which isn't exactly Nolan's problem.

Well, that's sort of the thing. Spielberg's characters are usually more relatable, or he presents their situations/feelings in a way that touch a broader audience. Nolan's characters are usually a lot more flawed and have damaging obsessions/motivations, which is less accessible. Much of the emotion in his characters is based on remorse/revenge and how the characters cope with it.

[jett]

Lulz at Sculli for complaining about me mentioning Cameron, look at what this thread has become now. :P

p.s. Kubrick is the one true god of filmmaking.

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I tend to think the whole "cold, soulless" charge leveled at Nolan is partly due to the subdued color tones that basically all of his films after Memento have had. I don't remember Memento being criticized for being too emotionally distant or whatnot, but all of his films since then have been criticized for it. The again, Memento was a ways back, so it may have been criticized similarly.

I just don't think a lot of people can identify with the "obsessiveness" that a lot of his characters personify. Even Memento had this, but since there was a narrator, you could get more inside the characters head and "feel" why that was. Nolan's following films take that element out and just put the character's fronts up. There's a lot going on underneath the surface of plenty of these folks, but he doesn't make much effort put it up there beyond the character realistically going out into the world and putting on a face for everyone in it. Scenes like Angier's "YOU DON'T KNOW?!" in the Prestige or Bruce's breakdown after Rachel in TDK really get to me, but not to a lot of other people because they think they should be longer and more focused on - but that's just the thing about obsessive, dedicated types - they can't break down for long, they can't let it linger, they have to regain their composure and focus as quickly as possible. It's just who they are, and that kind of understated emotion doesn't speak explicitly to a lot of people.

[Anton Sugar]

I just hope we get more Nickelback TV Spots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYh7m...eature=related

:lol

I hadn't seen this until a few months ago...so embarrassing.

SOME DAY SOME HOW
IM GONNA MAKE IT ALRIGHT BUT NOT RIGHT NOW

Actually sounds like some of the dialogue in the movie.

ITS NOT WHO I AM UNDERNEATH
ITS WHAT I DO
THAT DEFINES ME

[Dead]

The emotion in the Prestige is just better relayed than it is in TDK or Inception though.

I don't think Nolans movies are emotionless at all, but I do think some of his movies pull it off much better than his latest ones.

[Scullibundo]

Lulz at Sculli for complaining about me mentioning Cameron, look at what this thread has become now. :P p.s. Kubrick is the one true god of filmmaking.

LOL this thread was Spielberg v Nolan before you mentioned (or replied to a post about) Cameron. It was the reason why I asked about Cameron being brought into it.

[StuBurns]

Nolan has always included an obsessive character, it's only in The Prestige where that character isn't the 'main' character.

[brandonh83]

I don't Nolans movies are emotionless at all, but I do think some of his movies pull it off much better than his latest ones.

Batman Begins pretty much shit-kicks his other films in terms of emotional content, IMO.

The kid actor who played Bruce has more range than Bale.

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Really digging how we can pull 700 posts down in one day over the title of the movie and one character that won't be in it.:lol

It's really great to have Nolan-GAF back together again for another fun two year ride.

[Dead]

Nolan has always included an obsessive character, it's only in The Prestige where that character isn't the 'main' character.

Jackman is as much a lead as Bale is, isn't he?

[Anton Sugar]

I just don't think a lot of people can identify with the "obsessiveness" that a lot of his characters personify. Even Memento had this, but since there was a narrator, you could get more inside the characters head and "feel" why that was. Nolan's following films take that element out and just put the character's fronts up. There's a lot going on underneath the surface of plenty of these folks, but he doesn't make much effort put it up there beyond the character realistically going out into the world and putting on a face for everyone in it. Scenes like Angier's "YOU DON'T KNOW?!" in the Prestige or Bruce's breakdown after Rachel in TDK really get to me, but not to a lot of other people because they think they should be longer and more focused on - but that's just the thing about obsessive, dedicated types - they can't break down for long, they can't let it linger, they have to regain their composure and focus as quickly as possible. It's just who they are, and that kind of understated emotion doesn't speak explicitly to a lot of people.

Verily, we art friends.

[DMczaf]

Really digging how we can pull 700 posts down in one day over the title of the movie and one character that won't be in it.:lol It's really great to have Nolan-GAF back together again for another fun two year ride.

It's time to get the band back together.

[Discotheque]

Bruce had a breakdown after Rachel died in TDK? That scene was miniscule and probably one of the main reasons why people kept complaining that Bruce got little to no time at all to emote compared to Harvey Dent and even Gordon.

I'll give you Prestige though.

[Anton Sugar]

Jackman is as much a lead as Bale is, isn't he?

Jackman wasn't the lead?

There were two leads...a double...!

[StuBurns]

Jackman is as much a lead as Bale is, isn't he?

I'm not sure, I would say Bale was the protagonist in the traditional sense, I think he probably gets more screen time, he gets the vaguely happy ending, although the film is framed in the sense that you follow Jackman's confusion.

Maybe you're right, just doesn't seem that way in my memory.

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Nolan is considered "cold" because he makes Rube Goldberg machines with his films, and the characters act as components of that machine rather than the one who starts the reaction. I think calling him "cold" is a naive way to look at it. Calculated is probably a better term to use. If he puts too much focus on a character's feelings, he'll lose the taught nature of the concepts that drive his films. Whether it's memory loss in Memento, stage performance in Prestige, anarchy and order in TDK, or a dream machine in Inception, he uses characters as a catalyst for the overlying concept, not the other way around. However, I don't think that makes his films soulless or cold. The last scene with Cobb and Mal in Inception is actually one of the more heartbreaking scenes I've watched.

edit- but anyway... BATMAAAAAAAN!

[brandonh83]

Bruce had a breakdown after Rachel died in TDK? That scene was miniscule and probably one of the main reasons why people kept complaining that Bruce got little to no time at all to emote compared to Harvey Dent and even Gordon. I'll give you Prestige though.

I failed, Alfred... I couldn't.../cardboard box

One time, in Burma...

[Dead]

Now I want to rewatch the Prestige. It is endlessly rewatchable :3

[Anton Sugar]

Bruce had a breakdown after Rachel died in TDK? That scene was miniscule and probably one of the main reasons why people kept complaining that Bruce got little to no time at all to emote compared to Harvey Dent and even Gordon. I'll give you Prestige though.

I thought Alfred's role in TDK was pretty powerful and one of the better written parts. Even though it's pretty minor, the whole "sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded" really resonates.

[StuBurns]

Now I want to rewatch the Prestige. It is endlessly rewatchable :3

Which for a film with a twist is incredibly rare for me.

[Anton Sugar]

I'm not sure, I would say Bale was the protagonist in the traditional sense, I think he probably gets more screen time, he gets the vaguely happy ending, although the film is framed in the sense that you follow Jackman's confusion. Maybe you're right, just doesn't seem that way in my memory.

I actually considered Bale to sort of be the antagonist, and I thought that was a great "trick" of the film--convincing you that Borden actually does have some machine that defies the laws of nature and Angier is constantly trying to keep up, to "beat" the "bad guy". But that transforms as the movie goes on.

What a great fucking movie. Underrated and underappreciated.

[Dead]

I actually considered Bale to sort of be the antagonist, and I thought that was a great "trick" of the film--convincing you that Borden actually does have some machine that defies the laws of nature and Angier is constantly trying to keep up, to "beat" the "bad guy". But that transforms as the movie goes on. What a great fucking movie. Underrated and underappreciated.

Yep, the movie really does a great job of leading you on to think that there is something else to Borden, not just that, but it even makes you WANT to believe. The first time watching it, it just didn't seem fathomable that occam's razor was at work.

[jett]

That particular "twist" was ruined for me because of the poor makeup Borden's engineer uses. Or maybe I've just watched one too many Christian Bale movies to easily recognize him. :P Thankfully the movie doesn't lose anything if you figure that out.

I thought Alfred's role in TDK was pretty powerful and one of the better written parts. Even though it's pretty minor, the whole "sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded" really resonates.

Love that scene. The more I think about it the more I find Nolan's films plenty emotional. Never had an issue with that.

[effzee]

Bruce had a breakdown after Rachel died in TDK? That scene was miniscule and probably one of the main reasons why people kept complaining that Bruce got little to no time at all to emote compared to Harvey Dent and even Gordon. I'll give you Prestige though.

Yeah I felt the biggest flaw in TDK was not that they didn't spend as much time on Bruce (they couldn't considering the plot) but even the time they gave Bruce was quickly edited away. This was the love of his life. The girl he was willing to give up Batman just so he could be with her. He was hoping she was follow on her promise that she would be with him. And we get a two minute scene where it comes across more like he is concerned with what Harvey will think.

I've said it before, but I wanted some more anger. Something similar to the type of breakdown or anger he showed with the loss of his parents but of course not lasting as long.

Anyway I felt Inception had plenty of emotion. I mean Cobb and his wife Mal were handled perfectly well in my opinion considering the action and the pace the movie went with. When he finally confronts Mal and you see her cry, even though its a single tear, or when Cobb sees her jump, and some of the other scenes between them two are pretty emotional and got to me.

[apana]

I cant say who is the best and all that since I'm not a movie buff but Nolan has to be right up there. Inception is such an amazing film. First time I ever felt like I was really inside the film "world" while watching it.

[StuBurns]

I actually considered Bale to sort of be the antagonist, and I thought that was a great "trick" of the film--convincing you that Borden actually does have some machine that defies the laws of nature and Angier is constantly trying to keep up, to "beat" the "bad guy". But that transforms as the movie goes on. What a great fucking movie. Underrated and underappreciated.

It certainly is a great film, I think Nolan's best second to Inception. The thing is, Angier seems to be the cold one, the one who doesn't give a fuck about the girl he's sleeping with, the person who just wants revenge, and is willing to literally do anything he sees as needed to get what he wants. He kidnaps what we assume to be Borden's right hand man. His actions are certainly fairly typical of the bad guy, however we have his motivation, and subsequent obsessive nature given to us in really unusual detail and clarity. Antagonist motivations are typically either not really touched on, or something for the third act to reveal in way of a twist and building of the stakes. In that sense Nolan went way out of the norm with the roles, maybe that's one of the reasons it was so enjoyable to me. For the first act at least, they are neutral rivals if anything.

[Bob White]

The final scene between Gordon and Harvey is full of emotion.

Oldman and Eckhart sell the shit out of that scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY7xhnJtlkE

[jett]

The final scene between Gordon and Harvey is full of emotion. Oldman and Eckhart sell the shit out of that scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY7xhnJtlkE

That was a seriously chilling moment in theaters.

[Dead]

The final scene between Gordon and Harvey is full of emotion. Oldman and Eckhart sell the shit out of that scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY7xhnJtlkE

Best scene in the movie.

Until Bale comes in and ruins the mood. From bone chilling to laugh out loud in a matter of seconds :(

[effzee]

It certainly is a great film, I think Nolan's best second to Inception. The thing is, Angier seems to be the cold one, the one who doesn't give a fuck about the girl he's sleeping with, the person who just wants revenge, and is willing to literally do anything he sees as needed to get what he wants. He kidnaps what we assume to be Borden's right hand man. His actions are certainly fairly typical of the bad guy, however we have his motivation, and subsequent obsessive nature given to us in really unusual detail and clarity. Antagonist motivations are typically either not really touched on, or something for the third act to reveal in way of a twist and building of the stakes. In that sense Nolan went way out of the norm with the roles, maybe that's one of the reasons it was so enjoyable to me. For the first act at least, they are neutral rivals if anything.

I always watched the movie with Wolverine good guy and Batman bad guy if you go by simple black and white terms but I agree. In the end I just felt sad for both, especially the lives that were destroyed in the process because of their obsessions.

[Expendable.]

there goes all these potential sequels:

Valhalla Rising Rises
Rise of the Apes Rises
GI Joe: The Rise of the Cobra Rises

fuck you Nolan :(

[Discotheque]

If they know what's good for them Rise of the Apes will fall and there won't be a sequel.

[Expendable.]

If they know what's good for them Rise of the Apes will fall and there won't be a sequel.

what?! It's got James motherfucking Franco.

[Dead]

Rise of the Apes has an awesome cast, plus Weta doing the monkeys, Im willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

[Anton Sugar]

The final scene between Gordon and Harvey is full of emotion. Oldman and Eckhart sell the shit out of that scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY7xhnJtlkE

Oh fuck, I forgot about this scene. Along with the Joker breaking out of jail/Harvey burning/Harvey in the hospital sequence, absolutely chilling. Oldman pleading for his son's life...cot dam.

[Expendable.]

next summer is so friggin packed, I'm going to forget it is coming out.

[Lionel Mandrake]

Rise of the Apes team should have just made a musical.

[DMczaf]

Your parents death was not your fault.......it was your father's.

We need more training on Glaciers!

It didn't even actually help the training, Ra's just thought it was "cool as fuck"

[Blader5489]

Rise of the Apes team should have just made a musical.

Oh, I love legitimate theater.

[Thagomizer]

Bruce had a breakdown after Rachel died in TDK? That scene was miniscule and probably one of the main reasons why people kept complaining that Bruce got little to no time at all to emote compared to Harvey Dent and even Gordon. I'll give you Prestige though.

I actually really liked that scene and thought its brevity was a plus. Batman/Bruce doesn't have the time to grieve- he has one afternoon alone with his thoughts, and it's back to being the Dark Knight.

[Anton Sugar]

Rise of the Apes team should have just made a musical.

He can talk!

[TheKaeptain]

Most of my friends hate The Prestige.

[jett]

Your parents death was not your fault.......it was your father's. We need more training on Glaciers! It didn't even actually help the training, Ra's just thought it was "cool as fuck"

You mean...cool as ice!

[Anton Sugar]

Your parents death was not your fault.......it was your father's. We need more training on Glaciers! It didn't even actually help the training, Ra's just thought it was "cool as fuck"

Every scene with Liam Neeson was fucking gold, particularly the ice training scene.

Actually, the whole sequence you posted was ace. Even young Bruce and Alfred in the beginning...GREAT.

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I'd like to state for the record that I DON'T think Spielberg is awesome. Jaws and Raiders are both very good to great, but everything else.... eh. Has a good technical eye but no real sense for storytelling (and no matter what any film theorist tells you, no film lives a full life as a piece of art without a script that's at least good).

[StuBurns]

I'd like to state for the record that I DON'T think Spielberg is awesome. Jaws and Raiders are both very good to great, but everything else.... eh. Has a good technical eye but no real sense for storytelling (and no matter what any film theorist tells you, no film lives a full life as a piece of art without a script that's at least good).

There are a couple more I like, Catch Me If You Can is actually great, and Munich of course is incredible, but for the most part, I agree.

[Dead]

Spielberg having no sense of storytelling might be the most offensive thing I've read all day

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Spielberg having no sense of storytelling might be the most offensive thing I've read all day

Well, if you like cliche characters and predictable plot patterns, he has a GREAT sense of storytelling, but otherwise, his storytelling sense is simply not on a par with any of the great film artists of history, not even in the same galaxy.

[black_13]

The Dark Knight Returns is already taken by another Batman story.

True but the comics and movies are doing their own thing, don't see how that would be a problem. Its certainly better than anything else I've heard suggested so far.

Batman hasn't gone away. Where is he returning from?

1) How is Returns less tacky than Rises? 2) How does Return make more sense than Rises? Where is Batman returning from?

1. Rise has just been used so many times in titles.

2. well from the ending of The Dark Knight, I'm guessing Batman goes in hiding/or leaves gothem for a while since he takes the blame, crime levels goes up, and he returns. That makes sense to me. I doubt they will pick up the story right where TDK left it. If you wanna get literal, where is Batman gonna exactly rise from?

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I think Spielberg feels commonplace because his style is not only ripped and recrafted from a lot of serials and the like that came before him, but also because so many other folks have subscribed to the formula in the wake of stuff like Jaws and Raiders.