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[Puddles]

No, but it's like saying "Aside from Memento and Batman Begins, Nolan has never written any full-fledged characters that made any sense". Which is also right.

Oh, yeah, extremely emotional, especially those tutorial scenes that popped up every 2 minutes or so. I was crying my heart out.

Minority Report is Spielberg at his close-to-best. Nolan cannot even aspire to get to that level, since Spielberg started his career better than Nolan did, and went up and away. Nolan hasn't topped Memento ever, and is continuing to focus on action movies when he can't direct action sequences.

Inception really isn't an action movie.

And honestly, neither is The Dark Knight.

My gripe about characters comes more in their distinction. You can try to tell me that Cobb, Arthur, Ariadne and Eames are all completely different characters, yet if you give them all the same voice and turn the picture off it would be hard to tell who is talking. Even the side-characters, like the crazy chap who watches over the haloed victims in Minority Report are completely distinct and all have their own motivations - rather than characters whose sole purpose is to go with the flow of the plot. I know Anderton's motivations, I know his wife's, the inspectors', the head of pre-crime's, Agatha's etc. They are all well rounded and well established characters who, diverse as they may be are slotted into the story. I also identify and thus care about these characters. Now that isn't a requisite for a movie in any way - but its one small reason I prefer these characters. If Arthur, Ariadne or Earmes died, I wouldn't give two shits. But if Anderton, his wife or Agatha are in danger (or, like Farrel's agent) or killed, I care.

The characters in Inception all seem to want to help Cobb JUST CAUSE. None of them have motivations that define their character. Its essentially just a thinly veiled monetary gain if anything. But that's okay, because its a heist film. But then you can't complain if I don't find the characters in the film as engaging as I do Minority Report's.

You know what, this is a pretty valid argument. Touche.


I'll just say that I walked out of Minority Report in 2002 thinking "Wow, that was a pretty good scifi film", while I walked out of Inception earlier this year thinking "Holy shit, that was amazing!" But to each his own.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Inception really isn't an action movie.

And honestly, neither is The Dark Knight.



You know what, this is a pretty valid argument. Touche.


I'll just say that I walked out of Minority Report in 2002 thinking "Wow, that was a pretty good scifi film", while I walked out of Inception earlier this year thinking "Holy shit, that was amazing!" But to each his own.

You see, that's what Nolan is good at doing. He's good at doing AWESOME movies. But when I say AWESOME, I mean, most people get out of there with their mind completely blown because his movies are so full of big concepts and huge discussions about theories, and they're also edited in a way that will cause a MINDFUCK moment. But really, when you try to make sense of it all, it either doesn't make much sense, or wasn't really worth thinking about that much in the first place. That's the problem with EVERY single Nolan movie, including GAF favorite The Prestige, and my favorite of his, Memento.

Even those two, when you think about it, are about things that have been treated more in depth by many movies before them, and in a non-mindfucking way, which is to say a smart, respectful, in your face way that doesn't try to hide its lack of content behind a veneer of mindfuckage.

 

[EviLore]

Film elitism failure alert, mockery imminent.

 

[Puddles]

You just have to ruin my illusions, Foreign Jackass.

This is almost as bad as the thread where girls talked about having bowel movements.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

Film elitism failure alert, mockery imminent.

:lol If I'm a film elitist because I don't think Nolan's a genius moviemaker (I'm still seeing all his movies because they're sometimes entertaining), well so be it. My favorite movie I've watched this week is Cronenberg's Shivers. Is liking a movie about sex-addicted "zombies" also elitist?

You just have to ruin my illusions, Foreign Jackass.

I've yet to meet a big Nolan fan whose willing to actually try either to a) explain to me the incredible depth of Nolan's movies in a senseful way that I can't seem to get a grip on or b) admit that he just likes Nolan because he likes his Twilight Zone-like mindfuckery. Any of those two would be refreshing.

 

[MetalAlien]

Film elitism failure alert, mockery imminent.

 

[big ander]

You see, that's what Nolan is good at doing. He's good at doing AWESOME movies. But when I say AWESOME, I mean, most people get out of there with their mind completely blown because his movies are so full of big concepts and huge discussions about theories, and they're also edited in a way that will cause a MINDFUCK moment. But really, when you try to make sense of it all, it either doesn't make much sense, or wasn't really worth thinking about that much in the first place. That's the problem with EVERY single Nolan movie, including GAF favorite The Prestige, and my favorite of his, Memento.

Even those two, when you think about it, are about things that have been treated more in depth by many movies before them, and in a non-mindfucking way, which is to say a smart, respectful, in your face way that doesn't try to hide its lack of content behind a veneer of mindfuckage.

I agree that the mind games for Prestige weren't all too necessary, but for Memento they were. Memento had excellent characters beyond just being a mindfuck. The story was something that hadn't been overdone and the film created a significant message about the nature of memories and perception. But in Memento, the mind games are essential towards communicating this message. Multiple viewings of the film don't just give you a better understanding of the actual events, they give you a better look at the meaning of the film.

In The Prestige, the time line play was just to keep the "magic trick" going, which was cool but not 100% necessary. To me the overall message of that film was another of Nolan's obsession stories, and the time line play that preserves the feeling of the movie being a magic trick only highlights the fact that magic is cool and they're obsessed with it.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

I agree that the mind games for Prestige weren't all too necessary, but for Memento they were. Memento had excellent characters beyond just being a mindfuck. The story was something that hadn't been overdone and the film created a significant message about the nature of memories and perception. But in Memento, the mind games are essential towards communicating this message. Multiple viewings of the film don't just give you a better understanding of the actual events, they give you a better look at the meaning of the film.

In The Prestige, the time line play was just to keep the "magic trick" going, which was cool but not 100% necessary. To me the overall message of that film was another of Nolan's obsession stories, and the time line play that preserves the feeling of the movie being a magic trick only highlights the fact that magic is cool and they're obsessed with it.

I don't like much from the Prestige, but you're right about Memento. I really loved Memento when it came out, but I'm sad that Nolan is still writing characters around screenwriting concepts more than around real, earthly feelings and concerns. I mean, Memento got away with it, but you can kinda feel that the character was written around that screenwriting gimmick that he wanted to try. The rest of his movies, not so much. Inception is actually the worst thing he's done that I've seen (I just remembered that I haven't seen Following yet).

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Oh man. Get your head out your asshole if you can manage. Snowman, I've often trawled past your elitist musings and exercises in film sophistry and thought not to encourage you in your plight to bemuse others' love of film with your world-encompassing critical analyses by retorting. But jesus christ buddy, do you ever read what you've written and actually believe it?

I calls 'em like I sees 'em, man. If I think that a film or an artist is bad, I will say it unapologetically. From watching his films, I have come to the conclusion that Spielberg is a director with a high technical sense but a low artistic/storytelling sense, save for the two films that I mentioned (Jaws and Raiders). If that's so offensively elitist to you and is one of my "exercises in film sophistry," then so be it, but considering the high praise that I have given to decidedly non-elitist fare (such as the effusive praise that I, in fact, just finished giving to T2 in the Avatar thread, or my love of Aliens, or my belief that Step Brothers is hilarious, or my love of Spider-Man 2, or my love of so many Pixar films, or my love of It's a Wonderful Life, etc.), I think you'd have a long way to go to convince me. It's not as though I don't back up my opinions with objective analysis, and it's not as though I'm pulling opinions out of my asshole; I get my beliefs by watching and analyzing films, the way that anybody else does. If you think that my opinions are wrong, say so, but this constant tactic of calling me an asshole/elitist/whatever is tiresome and a cheap deflection away from any actual argument.

Edit: Also, Memento, The Prestige, and Batman Begins are far and away the best Nolan movies, and of them, Memento is far and away his best and could probably contend itself as being a great movie. I actually sort of had a reverse-from-typical arc on that one; I walked away slightly unimpressed but have grown more fond of it as time has gone on, as I've come to appreciate, especially in the last few months, just how well it integrates its mechanisms into the story instead of leaving them bare bones and out in the open like, say, Inception.

Double Edit: Minority Report is pretty good as well, up until the third act, and Munich has its moments though it could probably stand a bit more subtlety overall.

 

[Reticent Rhino]

The End of Knight
The Knight Ends (alternately, The Dark Knight Ends)

That last suggestion hits the theme of redemption, the closing of the trilogy and marketing/name recognition. Trifecta. Do it.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I had totally forgotten that this was Nolan's last Batman film. Damn. Now I can see why people are upset about The Riddler not appearing.

But you know, maybe this movie does well and Nolan decides to do another one? I mean, who's gonna take over a reboot like this and make it work aside from him?

Eckart should get more love for how good he was in TDK.

Seriously.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Really, both Eckhart AND Oldman deserve way more praise for TDK; they form much more of the emotional basis of the film than the Bruce Wayne stuff, and they carry it admirably.

 

[apana]

I wasnt expecting him to do the Riddler in the first place. I dont know why everyone was so obsessed with the character. I'm going to say its either catwoman or the ventroliquist/scarface guy.

 

[big ander]

I don't like much from the Prestige, but you're right about Memento. I really loved Memento when it came out, but I'm sad that Nolan is still writing characters around screenwriting concepts more than around real, earthly feelings and concerns. I mean, Memento got away with it, but you can kinda feel that the character was written around that screenwriting gimmick that he wanted to try. The rest of his movies, not so much. Inception is actually the worst thing he's done that I've seen (I just remembered that I haven't seen Following yet).

What I'm trying to say, though, is that I feel like Leonard in Memento wasn't written around the screenwriting concept of the dual timelines. To me, they both feel organic and purposeful, and as a whole they put the movie on a higher level.

In The Prestige, the screenwriting concept of the timelines told from journals within timelines didn't add any real development to the characters, it only preserved the "magic trick."

And though I very much enjoyed it, I've begun to sour just a bit on Inception. I still love most of the movie, but it's certainly Nolan's worst.
And go see Following, it's a succinct 70 minutes, has an awesome noir style, and really shows off Nolan's origins. It's up on netflix IW.

 

[BowieZ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRH-Ywpz1_I

icy what you did thar

 

[Deleted member 30609]

any details are good details. very excited.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

I hope the fight scenes are better this time around. The only impressive one in TDK was the one at the disco. The others, Batman's moves were slow and fighting one on one mostly.

 

[brianjones]

No Close Encounters love?

Bunch of savages in this town...

have you watched it recently? yuck

 

[Solo]

I hope the fight scenes are better this time around. The only impressive one in TDK was the one at the disco.

What pray tell was impressive about that?

 

[PhoncipleBone]

have you watched it recently? yuck

Yes, I have, and Close Encounters is still a damn good movie. Definitely near the top of Spielberg's list.

What pray tell was impressive about that?

Eric Roberts

 

[brianjones]

to each they own mayne.

i think it's with his movies that have aged poorly alongside stuff like ET, Hook, Jurassic Park, etc.

jurassic park still has some amazing classic scenes and nothing will change that first time seeing it in the theatre but when you watch it nowadays there's just so much plot and script stupidity.

 

[Danielsan]

My director is better than yours! No mine is!
Cry me a river people.

Regardless 3D is a fucking joke that barely adds anything to the movie experience. During scenes of vertigo it may enhance the sensation, but by shitting on all the other scenes it kinda evens out. The only reason these high profile directors are jumping on it is because it equals higher ticket prices and thus more revenue. Hence you get horrendous movies like Alice making a fortune.

And people shitting on Spielberg need to watch Munich.

 

[megashock5]

Yes, I have, and Close Encounters is still a damn good movie. Definitely near the top of Spielberg's list.

I agree, probably my favorite Spielberg film. But The Abyss is my favorite Cameron film, so I guess I like sci-fi.

 

[Blader]

Minority Report has some great, tense sequences but also some really really cheesy ones (where he's being chased by the cops on jetpacks, or whatever the fuck, is the first example that comes to mind).

I don't know, I just remember really liking it the first time I saw it and then re-watching it a year ago and thinking it hadn't aged well at all.

The End of Knight
The Knight Ends (alternately, The Dark Knight Ends)

That last suggestion hits the theme of redemption, the closing of the trilogy and marketing/name recognition. Trifecta. Do it.

But this isn't supposed to be the last Batman story, just the last of Nolan's trilogy. These films are about just the beginning of Batman's career, not the entirety of it.

 

[brianjones]

those sound like bad puns lol

\/\/ nice

 

[Chuckie]

A Dark Knight's Tale. That way it's also a tribute to Heath

 

[Sapiens]

Director warz!

No one is taking this seriously, right??

 

[Kurtofan]

The End of Knight
The Knight Ends (alternately, The Dark Knight Ends)

That last suggestion hits the theme of redemption, the closing of the trilogy and marketing/name recognition. Trifecta. Do it.

it sounds terrible.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

But this isn't supposed to be the last Batman story, just the last of Nolan's trilogy. These films are about just the beginning of Batman's career, not the entirety of it.

Oh lawd, please, no one trying to ape Nolan's style like this is PotC4 or some shit. Just call it "Batman Dies" right now, please.

 

[Sapiens]

Bruce is probably finally going to snap and separate his personalities in this film.

If it is the starting of his career, then I guess that would have to happen.

 

[sixteen-bit]

A Dark Knight's Tale. That way it's also a tribute to Heath

winner

 

[crazy monkey]

shutter Island was better than Inception that is all i know. I think it was because of the last part of the inception once the action scene start they are not that good in particular and film feels longer than it should be. The concept was fantastic though.

 

[Dabanton]

What pray tell was impressive about that?

You could actually see what was happening?

Director warz!

No one is taking this seriously, right??

I think they are. :lol

 

[jett]

Shutter Island is hugely overrated around these parts. That is one movie I don't get the praise for, for me it's easily the worst Scorsese movie of the DiCaprio-age. Maybe I need to see it again, but I doubt my opinion will change.

 

[Danielsan]

shutter Island was better than Inception that is all i know. I think it was because of the last part of the inception once the action scene start they are not that good in particular and film feels longer than it should be. The concept was fantastic though.

I'm inclined to agree and I love me some Inception. The snow fortress is definitely it's weakest link. Though I had less of a problem on my second watching. Shutter Island is near perfect if you ask me. People who even remotely think that movie is about "the twist" are ridiculous.

 

[Solo]

Shutter Island is the best Scorsese/DiCaprio movie not named The Aviator. And yes, its better than Inception and handles very similar themes better.

You could actually see what was happening?

You could? I just remember flashing disco lights, pumping bass and a bunch of messy cuts back and forth from Roberts to Batman doing...something.

 

[hamchan]

I'm inclined to agree and I love me some Inception. The snow fortress is definitely it's weakest link. Though I had less of a problem on my second watching. Shutter Island is near perfect if you ask me. People who even remotely think that movie is about "the twist" are ridiculous.

The twist in Shutter Island was really ridiculous to me and left me feeling sour on the whole thing. The parts before that were so brilliant though, the twist might be the only thing I can point at and say "I don't like this at all".

 

[brandonh83]

The twist in Shutter Island was really ridiculous to me and left me feeling sour on the whole thing. The parts before that were so brilliant though, the twist might be the only thing I can point at and say "I don't like this at all".

The twist isn't what really mattered. Anyone could have seen that coming from a mile away, even in the trailers. It's the why which is important. And not only that, but once you know what's going on, it makes a great deal of scenes even cooler on rewatch.

 

[Solo]

The twist isn't what really mattered. Anyone could have seen that coming from a mile away, even in the trailers. It's the why which is important. And not only that, but once you know what's going on, it makes a great deal of scenes even cooler on rewatch.

This is the rare case where knowing the "twist" brings the entire movie up a few notches.

 

[bud]

shutter island could do with a little less exposition at the end, but i was so invested in leo's character that i was hoping

Spoiler

it was all real

. so, i was kinda bummed out about that. the ending was great, though, and i dug the movie as a whole.

 

[brianjones]

I'm inclined to agree and I love me some Inception. The snow fortress is definitely it's weakest link. Though I had less of a problem on my second watching. Shutter Island is near perfect if you ask me. People who even remotely think that movie is about "the twist" are ridiculous.

that final scene where they explain everything was still lame though.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

What pray tell was impressive about that?

His kicks/punches were quicker and more fluid, I guess.

You could actually see what was happening?



I think they are. :lol

That too :lol

 

[beelzebozo]

i would love to watch a version of INCEPTION directed by someone like darren aronofsky.

 

[Danielsan]

that final scene where they explain everything was still lame though.

Disagreed. Loved it.
Man I could go for some Shutter Island right now. God damn, that cinematography and those performances.

i would love to watch a version of INCEPTION directed by someone like darren aronofsky.

Probably would be infinitely better.

 

[brianjones]

His kicks/punches were quicker and more fluid, I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWKeuLieNuE

it's a cool scene

i don't understand the complaints of "i cant tell wutz goin on" .. isnt that the point? the lights are flashing and shit and he's batman

 

[brandonh83]

This is the rare case where knowing the "twist" brings the entire movie up a few notches.

Sure. Too bad people don't give a fuck about, you know, most other elements of an actual film these days. More often than not, when I see a film like Shutter Island being discussed by naysayers, I never see any commentary on any of the various rich components that made the film great, it's always focused on a couple of insignificant things that doesn't exactly speak for the product as a whole.

haha seen twist coming a mile away lulz sucks

Yeah I mean forget about all the fantastically creepy sequences, mindblowing atmospherics, awesome throwback score, the incredibly thick dream sequences with that haunting music, and the list goes on. Fuck all of that-- you guessed the twist. Nothing else matters, even though the twist plays into virtually every scene in the film in some capacity. He's a smore.

 

[bud]

i would love to see aronofsky do anything, really. one of my favourite directors. he's four out of four for me so far.

 

[Danielsan]

Sure. Too bad people don't give a fuck about, you know, most other elements of an actual film these days. More often than not, when I see a film like Shutter Island being discussed by naysayers, I never see any commentary on any of the various rich components that made the film great, it's always focused on a couple of insignificant things that doesn't exactly speak for the product as a whole.

haha seen twist coming a mile away lulz sucks

Yeah I mean forget about all the fantastically creepy sequences, mindblowing atmospherics, awesome throwback score, the incredibly thick dream sequences with that haunting music, and the list goes on. Fuck all of that-- you guessed the twist. He's a smore.

Those dream sequences are the most beautiful pieces of film making of 2010. Fact.

i would love to see aronofsky do anything, really. one of my favourite directors. he's four out of four for me so far.

Black Swan will be incredible. I can feel it.

 

[badcrumble]

The overemphasis on "twists" really needs to die, IMO. A movie isn't smart just because you need to watch it twice to understand it; it might just be a really badly told story. Likewise, guessing the 'twist' doesn't make a movie bad unless the twist really is the only thing of value in it, in which case the movie sucks whether the twist is guessable or not.

 

[hamchan]

I'll give that the absolute final scene of Shutter Island was pretty brilliant and wouldn't have been possible without the twist.