• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF

Aaron
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:17 AM)
Aaron's Avatar
FPS and perks? They're halfway there if they want this game to sell. Now they got to add zombies.
EatChildren
Chico is Quiet
(09-11-2011, 11:21 AM)
EatChildren's Avatar

Originally Posted by omnomis

This is also EA, Command & Conquer used to sell not completely out of the stratosphere of their FPS games, but didn't the most recent ones completely bottom out? Not that EA would realize it was because the games were lackluster and not because every gamer in 2011 will only play FPS. They probably think that because they aren't Blizzard, no version of Syndicate they could make as a strategy game would sell over 750,000 units.

I'm honestly not sure how the latest Command & Conquer games sold, but it wouldn't surprise me.

But even so, I dont necessarily need publishers to 100% stick to the designs of old. Modern Syndicate doesn't need to be old Syndicate with better graphics (I'd like it, but I dont expect it). All I wish more publishers would do, in cases like this, is take a look at the old franchise and use it as a foundation for modernisation. As in say "Okay, this is how the game looked, and this is how the game played. How can we tweak and build this for a modern era so that people will be attracted to the product, while taking into account modern conventions that gamers expect?"

What we get instead, more often than not, is the opposite direction of development. They start with a popular genre, or popular conventions, and then try and squeeze and fit the franchise into that vision. Its the definition of a spin-off.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a wonderful example of how to revive an old franchise with modern conventions. There's changes here and there, some for the better and some for the worst, but its distinctly Deus Ex, retaining the qualities and vision that people expect from the franchies. Why cant Syndicate be like that too? Why not make it third person? Why not include squad mechanics? Why not try and update those old mechanics for a new era, instead of taking the easy, lazy way out?

Bah. Im too grumpy about these things for my own good.
Acosta
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:25 AM)
Acosta's Avatar

Originally Posted by EatChildren

I'm honestly not sure how the latest Command & Conquer games sold, but it wouldn't surprise me.

But even so, I dont necessarily need publishers to 100% stick to the designs of old. Modern Syndicate doesn't need to be old Syndicate with better graphics (I'd like it, but I dont expect it). All I wish more publishers would do, in cases like this, is take a look at the old franchise and use it as a foundation for modernisation. As in say "Okay, this is how the game looked, and this is how the game played. How can we tweak and build this for a modern era so that people will be attracted to the product, while taking into account modern conventions that gamers expect?"

What we get instead, more often than not, is the opposite direction of development. They start with a popular genre, or popular conventions, and then try and squeeze and fit the franchise into that vision. Its the definition of a spin-off.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a wonderful example of how to revive an old franchise with modern conventions. There's changes here and there, some for the better and some for the worst, but its distinctly Deus Ex, retaining the qualities and vision that people expect from the franchies. Why cant Syndicate be like that too? Why not make it third person? Why not include squad mechanics? Why not try and update those old mechanics for a new era, instead of taking the easy, lazy way out?

Bah. Im too grumpy about these things for my own good.

Spot on EatChildren.
More Fun To Compute
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:26 AM)
More Fun To Compute's Avatar

Originally Posted by omnomis

I'm not a "fan of the genre", FPS. "Fan of the genre" is such a pointless term, especially when it is applied to POV and not theme. What I meant by "as a fan of first person shooters" was that there are a huge number of games that I love which are first person. Most of the games on my shelf are FPS, but three of my top five favorite games of all time are third person. My point is that the perspective alone isn't what makes me like a game, it's if the rest of the game speaks to my sensibilities. I will never discount an upcoming game as a "never purchase" solely because of the game's camera position, which more than one person in this thread seems to have done.

This "your so closed minded" spiel is the weakest argument ever for trying to persuade(atron) people into being enthusiastic about every industry action game that comes along. What are my sensibilities when it comes to games? I'm pretty sure they are different to someone who buys a lot of FPS and gets excited when new FPS are announced.
Omikaru
Banned
(09-11-2011, 11:28 AM)
Omikaru's Avatar
More potentially generic garbage from EA. Shame to see a much-loved franchise get this treatment though.
BrainZEROX
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:28 AM)
BrainZEROX's Avatar

Originally Posted by EatChildren

As Nirolak said, if a strategy game were announced around the same time there would be less complaining. But no strategy game has been announced, so old Syndicate fans are not getting Syndicate at all.

The strategy in Syndicate was very limited. I'm an old syndicate fan (not Syndicate wars though) and I remember very brutal missions with very few strategy involved. To me the game was more like a Diablo precursor than a real time Xcom and I'm convinced everything Syndicate did can be successfully translated into a first person perspective. Time will tell I guess...

Edit> nvm, didn't see your last message
Strummerjones
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:28 AM)
Strummerjones's Avatar

Originally Posted by omnomis

I'm not a "fan of the genre", FPS. "Fan of the genre" is such a pointless term, especially when it is applied to POV and not theme. What I meant by "as a fan of first person shooters" was that there are a huge number of games that I love which are first person. Most of the games on my shelf are FPS, but three of my top five favorite games of all time are third person. My point is that the perspective alone isn't what makes me like a game, it's if the rest of the game speaks to my sensibilities. I will never discount an upcoming game as a "never purchase" solely because of the game's camera position, which more than one person in this thread seems to have done.

The reason why it's specifically called the "first person shoot em up" genre is because the perspective employed in those games directly limits what is possible with the gameplay. FPS games of course aren't the only games to use first person perspective, but a change of camera point of view does fundamentally change what is possible in a game. It's bizarre how through out this thread people try and pretend that isn't the case and that somehow gameplay mechanics can be interchanged intact between different perspectives. Isometric/overhead viewpoints give the player far more information about what is going a around the characters they are controlling, creating an entirely different type of game with different rules.

As we have seen however, the market cannot support diversity and different kind of games, so we are encouraged to cheer loudly when genres disappear for good. Don't like it? you're probably old or something!
Sectus
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:31 AM)
Sectus's Avatar
It is really too bad they feel it's necessary to use the Syndicate brand for the game. It sounds like they've done enough changes to the storyline and visual style that it isn't recognizable as a Syndicate game, and we already know the gameplay will be entirely different.

Originally Posted by dr_rus

I'm ok with it being an FPS. I mean, has anyone really thought that Starbreeze will make some kind of tactical RTS for PC/360/PS3? Naaah, it's been pretty clear that it'll be an FPS with (maybe) some RPG elements to it.

Game looks interesting art wise.

Their first game was a strategy game actually: http://www.starbreeze.com/games/the-outforce.aspx

I wouldn't mind an FPS in the Syndicate universe if done right. But if this is a linear shooter with a bunch of scripted cinematic setpieces... then yawn.
gollumsluvslave
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:48 AM)
This reminds me very much of what happened with Shadowrun.

Of course, now in threads I see quite a few people talking about how great the Shadowrun FPS was, and wanting another FPS installment even before a more traditional RPG Shadowrun.

Bottom line for me is to reserve judgement - even the possibility of this new Syndicate being a great game in it's own right and opening up the chance of something more creative and tactical like the original after the fact has got to be better than nothing.
Nostalgia~4ever
Banned
(09-11-2011, 11:50 AM)
Nostalgia~4ever's Avatar

Originally Posted by Freshmaker


Why? They haven't been good for years.

so theyre in line with most known developers then. Take bioware as an example, they been shitty lately.
Benjamin1981
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:51 AM)
Benjamin1981's Avatar
Sad but we can look forward to the inevitable marketing tie-in Syndicate Classic for Mobile/Facebook ;)
faulty_fork
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:52 AM)
faulty_fork's Avatar
Here's the cached version of the page on Origin btw: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ynicate.ea.com

Nothing noteworthy besides what has already been posted, but atleast we know the game is coming to PC, Xbox 360 and PS3. I think you can view the system requirements also :)
Acosta
Member
(09-11-2011, 11:54 AM)
Acosta's Avatar

Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave

This reminds me very much of what happened with Shadowrun.

Of course, now in threads I see quite a few people talking about how great the Shadowrun FPS was, and wanting another FPS installment even before a more traditional RPG Shadowrun.

Bottom line for me is to reserve judgement - even the possibility of this new Syndicate being a great game in it's own right and opening up the chance of something more creative and tactical like the original after the fact has got to be better than nothing.

The idea of you picking Shadowrun, of all games, as example and then going with the old "if it's good we may have a proper Syndicate after!" it┤s hilarious.

And BTW, if you don't see people asking for a Shadowrun RPG is because we got tired already of bitching about that dick move and we have no hope about that. For many of us Shadowrun it's still one of the biggest disappointments of this generation.
Nostalgia~4ever
Banned
(09-11-2011, 11:57 AM)
Nostalgia~4ever's Avatar
I hope not the same people complain about too many fps games are the same ones who get giddy for new fps games from valve, id, crytek or whatever.
Kem0sabe
Member
(09-11-2011, 12:08 PM)
Kem0sabe's Avatar
This is shadowrun all over again... and we all know how that one turned out.
EatChildren
Chico is Quiet
(09-11-2011, 12:12 PM)
EatChildren's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nostalgia~4ever

I hope not the same people complain about too many fps games are the same ones who get giddy for new fps games from valve, id, crytek or whatever.

Fallout-NL
Member
(09-11-2011, 12:15 PM)
Fallout-NL's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nostalgia~4ever

I hope not the same people complain about too many fps games are the same ones who get giddy for new fps games from valve, id, crytek or whatever.


Not cool dude.


Though Crytek's stuff isn't in the same league apart from the shiny graphics.
markot
Junior Member
(09-11-2011, 12:20 PM)
markot's Avatar
Nor is Ids recently >.>!
Fallout-NL
Member
(09-11-2011, 12:23 PM)
Fallout-NL's Avatar

Originally Posted by EatChildren

For those wondering why people might be upset with this (even if the answer is obvious), the question isn't whether or not this particular Syndicate will be good by its own merits, its that the first Syndicate game since 1996 is a spin-off.

As Nirolak said, if a strategy game were announced around the same time there would be less complaining. But no strategy game has been announced, so old Syndicate fans are not getting Syndicate at all.

I love Syndicate so I'll still have a look at this, but it depresses me oh-so-much that publishers and develpers are too shit scared to try anything other than first person shooters and cinematic action games.



Yes. It's just so weird though. Why would you use the name for brand recognition and then make a game that probably isn't going to appeal to the people who would recognize the brand in the first place?


Originally Posted by markot

Nor is Ids recently >.>!


I have fond memories of Doom 3 even though it had a fair number of problems. (Like it a lot better than Crysis.) Other than that Id hasn't done anything recently right?
EatChildren
Chico is Quiet
(09-11-2011, 12:25 PM)
EatChildren's Avatar

Originally Posted by Fallout-NL

Yes. It's just so weird though. Why would you use the name for brand recognition and then make a game that probably isn't going to appeal to the people who would recognize the brand in the first place?

*shrug* Creative bankruptcy?
CaptainDa
Junior Member
(09-11-2011, 12:38 PM)
CaptainDa's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sectus

I wouldn't mind an FPS in the Syndicate universe if done right. But if this is a linear shooter with a bunch of scripted cinematic setpieces... then yawn.

This! Half the fun in Syndicate for me, were the sandbox-tools: creating a meatshield with the persuadetron, running over targets in heavily guarded area with the armoured cars, placing a timebomb in a train and watching your target get blown away while the train leaves the station, leading rival agents to one area and watching them kill each other instead of going in guns blazing... Pure bliss!
MMaRsu
I need some paprika. Official moneylender of the Coalition of Muslim Drug Dealers
(09-11-2011, 12:40 PM)
MMaRsu's Avatar
This is Starbreeze, why would you even expect a linear shooter with cinematic elements?
Nostalgia~4ever
Banned
(09-11-2011, 12:41 PM)
Nostalgia~4ever's Avatar

Originally Posted by EatChildren

dont really understand the gif. Valve doesn't make fps games?
CaptainDa
Junior Member
(09-11-2011, 12:45 PM)
CaptainDa's Avatar

Originally Posted by MMaRsu

This is Starbreeze, why would you even expect a linear shooter with cinematic elements?

Given their track record, that's exactly what I'm hoping for. I'm still optimistic Starbreeze will handle this franchise with respect. I mean, the only thing we have is a poorly written pr-announcement.
EatChildren
Chico is Quiet
(09-11-2011, 12:47 PM)
EatChildren's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nostalgia~4ever

dont really understand the gif. Valve doesn't make fps games?

I was raging at the idea that looking forward to a Valve first person shooter somehow negates complaints of the market having too many first person shooters.

Originally Posted by MMaRsu

This is Starbreeze, why would you even expect a linear shooter with cinematic elements?

Starbreeze today =/= Starbreeze of yesterday.
markot
Junior Member
(09-11-2011, 12:48 PM)
markot's Avatar
Starbreeze is just the dev behind it, EA is pulling all the strings, they are the wallet, they own the ip... etc... its an EA game, and given that.....
Seep
Member
(09-11-2011, 12:55 PM)
Seep's Avatar
They just killed my fave game of the old times. :(
Nostalgia~4ever
Banned
(09-11-2011, 01:04 PM)
Nostalgia~4ever's Avatar

Originally Posted by EatChildren

I was raging at the idea that looking forward to a Valve first person shooter somehow negates complaints of the market having too many first person shooters.


Starbreeze today =/= Starbreeze of yesterday.

valve is overrated as fuck, HL1 is still their best fps game and hasn't been topped since.

starbreeze on the other hand always make stylized games.
Last edited by Nostalgia~4ever; 09-11-2011 at 01:08 PM.
EatChildren
Chico is Quiet
(09-11-2011, 01:06 PM)
EatChildren's Avatar
It would be wrong to use that gif again.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
(09-11-2011, 01:07 PM)
McBradders's Avatar
Syndicate had 4 player co op on the SNES and it was rad as fuck.

Kinda interested in seeing if this take can do it any kind of justice. Starbreeze deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one for sure. Stuff like the Darkness and Riddick were far from your typical shooter.
Nostalgia~4ever
Banned
(09-11-2011, 01:08 PM)
Nostalgia~4ever's Avatar

Originally Posted by EatChildren

It would be wrong to use that gif again.


no more wrong than burning a game that barely been revealed.
DaBuddaDa
Member
(09-11-2011, 01:12 PM)
DaBuddaDa's Avatar

Originally Posted by EatChildren

Starbreeze today =/= Starbreeze of yesterday.

What happened between Riddick and The Darkness and now?
Sipowicz
Banned
(09-11-2011, 01:14 PM)
has about as much to do with syndicate as starbreeze's last game

fucking pointless EA having the rights
EatChildren
Chico is Quiet
(09-11-2011, 01:15 PM)
EatChildren's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nostalgia~4ever

no more wrong than burning a game that barely been revealed.

Oh bu bu bu.

Originally Posted by DaBuddaDa

What happened between Riddick and The Darkness and now?

A crazy amount of staff packed their bags and left. The people responsible for those games are no longer at the company.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(09-11-2011, 01:16 PM)
Nirolak's Avatar

Originally Posted by DaBuddaDa

What happened between Riddick and The Darkness and now?

http://www.1up.com/features/starbreeze-secret-history
archnemesis
Member
(09-11-2011, 01:16 PM)
archnemesis's Avatar

Originally Posted by DaBuddaDa

What happened between Riddick and The Darkness and now?

Part of the team quit and formed a new studio that's working on a multi-platform id Tech 5 game for Bethesda Softworks.
dark_inferno
Member
(09-11-2011, 01:22 PM)
dark_inferno's Avatar
Played the original Syndicate and im not totally against the new one. But however... we will have to wait to get a real oppinion of the game
DaBuddaDa
Member
(09-11-2011, 01:23 PM)
DaBuddaDa's Avatar

Originally Posted by archnemesis

Part of the team quit and formed a new studio that's working on a multi-platform id Tech 5 game for Bethesda Softworks.

Oh. Lord. It's beautiful. Tears flowing. So good.

Thanks for the link Nirolak.
KKRT00
Member
(09-11-2011, 01:36 PM)
KKRT00's Avatar

Originally Posted by McBradders

Syndicate had 4 player co op on the SNES and it was rad as fuck.
.

Wait what? Mind blown.
subversus
I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
(09-11-2011, 01:39 PM)
subversus's Avatar

Originally Posted by dark_inferno

Played the original Syndicate and im not totally against the new one. But however... we will have to wait to get a real oppinion of the game

a sensible post? GTFO!!!!
Zenith
Banned
(09-11-2011, 01:45 PM)
Zenith's Avatar
I support Starbreeze's take on it except for the possible character-centric bit, as someone already posted Agents are disposable faceless drones. Focus on the guy giving the orders on the blimp.
-PXG-
-dry humper-
(09-11-2011, 01:49 PM)
-PXG-'s Avatar
No one should be the least bit surprised that this is a shooter. It's being made by Starbreeze.
Some of you must live under a rock, on the moon, with plugs in your ears and your eyes shut. Jesus.

The development is in good hands. The marketing, on the other hand, isn't. I don't think this will be a repeat of the XCOM nonsense.
subversus
I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
(09-11-2011, 01:51 PM)
subversus's Avatar

Originally Posted by loffer

They had a lot of trouble in the development process. BUT they have sorted it out.

In addition, Magnus H÷gdahl, which is one of Starbreeze's founder, is back to help them complete the production of Syndicate. Magnus is a principal architect of the game engine as Syndicate is based on.

This is going to be fuckning great!

oh, I'm very glad to hear that. That guy is a technical wizard. If he was more lucky he would be up there with Carmack in terms of being well-known.

damn, I can't wait for gameplay video. So far, it sounds very promising but yes, it shouldn't be one guy against the world, he should have a squad of some sort. Well, we'll see.
Radogol
Member
(09-11-2011, 01:52 PM)
Radogol's Avatar

Originally Posted by Benjamin1981

Sad but we can look forward to the inevitable marketing tie-in Syndicate Classic for Mobile/Facebook ;)

Oh shit! I'd buy 11 energy potions day one!
Acosta
Member
(09-11-2011, 02:07 PM)
Acosta's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nostalgia~4ever

valve is overrated as fuck, HL1 is still their best fps game and hasn't been topped since.

starbreeze on the other hand always make stylized games.

Originally Posted by EatChildren

It would be wrong to use that gif again.

... I will do it then.



Shut the fuck up.
Acosta
Member
(09-11-2011, 02:10 PM)
Acosta's Avatar

Originally Posted by -PXG-

No one should be the least bit surprised that this is a shooter. It's being made by Starbreeze.
Some of you must live under a rock, on the moon, with plugs in your ears and your eyes shut. Jesus.

The development is in good hands. The marketing, on the other hand, isn't. I don't think this will be a repeat of the XCOM nonsense.

Again, I knew it would happen. That doesn't make it less stupid or annoying.

If you want to talk shit about the motivations of some of us to be angry, read the fucking thread. I'm not going to explain it again.
Acosta
Member
(09-11-2011, 02:19 PM)
Acosta's Avatar

Originally Posted by loffer

They had a lot of trouble in the development process. BUT they have sorted it out.

In addition, Magnus H÷gdahl, which is one of Starbreeze's founder, is back to help them complete the production of Syndicate. Magnus is a principal architect of the game engine as Syndicate is based on.

This is going to be fuckning great!

Awesome, so it will desecrate Syndicate, but at least the engine will be great.

I feel much better now! This is going to be awesome!
DaBuddaDa
Member
(09-11-2011, 02:21 PM)
DaBuddaDa's Avatar

Originally Posted by Acosta

Awesome, so it will desecrate Syndicate, but at least the engine will be great.

The existence of this game does not alter the original you love dearly in any way, shape or form, nor have you played it yet.
bigdaddygamebot
(09-11-2011, 02:27 PM)
bigdaddygamebot's Avatar
Thank god it's a visceral FPS experience. I definitely need all of my games to be visceral...

-.-
Acosta
Member
(09-11-2011, 02:27 PM)
Acosta's Avatar

Originally Posted by DaBuddaDa

The existence of this game does not alter the original you love dearly in any way, shape or form, nor have you played it yet.

What are you, my conscience? are you going to tell me how I should feel?

This games is called Syndicate, so I will judge it under Syndicate standards and will ask it lo live to that legacy. So far, I'm unimpressed and have few reasons to believe that opinion will change.

If someone has any problem with that, send a letter to EA to change the fucking name.

Thread Tools