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"The Sega Sony hardware system" - how Sega of America & Sony tried to team up

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Never heard this story related. Has it been posted already? Part of a MCV article reflecting back on E3 and comparisons with E3 1995.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/tale-of-two-e3s-xbox-vs-sony-vs-sega/0118482

“Sony came to us after they had been rebuffed by Nintendo,” remembers Kalinske.

“They had wanted Nintendo to use some technology that they had, and Nintendo instead chose to work with Philips. That really annoyed Sony. Olaf Olafsson [Sony Electronic Publishing President] and Micky Schulhof [President of Sony America] came to my office and said: ‘Tom, we really don’t like Nintendo. You don’t like Nintendo. We have this little studio down in Santa Monica [Imagesoft] working on video games, we don’t know what to do with it, we’d like Sega’s help in training our guys. And we think the optical disc will be the best format.’

“Well I agreed with them
, I thought CDs would be the next format as well. But in those days nobody knew how to programme on optical discs. So I said, “Ok. Let’s combine our efforts. Let’s finance Imagesoft, and let’s finance this little developer called Digital Pictures, which seemed to be furthest along in knowing how to programme on optical disc.’ And they financed three titles from Digital Pictures and we did as well.

“So our relationship with Sony was very close and very tight. We together worked a lot of these things out. And Sega of America and Sony were both convinced that the next platform had to use optical discs. We had been working on this CD ROM attachment to the Genesis [Mega CD], which we knew really wasn’t adequate, but it taught us how to make games on this format.

“We had the Sony guys and our engineers in the United States come up with specs for what this next optical-based hardware system would be. And with these specs, Olafsson, Schulhof and I went to Japan, and we met with Sony’s Ken Kutaragi.

“He said it was a great idea, and as we all lose money on hardware, let's jointly market a single system – the Sega Sony hardware system – and whatever loss we make, we split that loss.”


Kalinske loved the sound of this deal. As Sega made some of the biggest games in the world, he was certain it would be Sega that would make the most money from this deal. All he needed was the Sega Board to say yes.

“Next we went to Nakayama [Sega President] and the Board at Sega, and they basically turned me down. They said: ‘That’s a stupid idea, Sony doesn’t know how to make hardware. They don’t know how to make software either. Why would we want to do this?’ That is what caused the division between Sega and Sony and caused Sony to become our competitor and launch its own hardware platform.”

This was the first of many disagreements between Sega Japan and its US team in the build-up to E3. In fact, Sega America had little faith in the Saturn and was desperate to improve it.

Although this is a large quote, there is more at the link.
 
Just finished reading this article as well. It's amazing how Nintendo and SEGA both shunned Sony only to end up creating their largest competitor. Looking back, it's pretty nuts.
 
There has to be more to the story? Like the part that gets glossed over in the Nintendo/Sony fallout is that Sony wanted rights to Nintendo IP and that wasn't acceptable.

Maybe the SEGA deal had something similar, and that's why the board didn't approve it?
 

kuroshiki

Member
I wonder what board of Sega were thinking after the announcement of FF7 exclusive for PS1.

'OH FUCK WHAT HAVE WE DONE'
 

Gartooth

Member
Wow, the board completely screwed them over. Sega's current position in the market could very well have been very different if they had teamed up with Sony.
 
Japan not listening to what anyone in the US has to say seems like a trend in gaming. Imagine if SoA had actually gotten even half of their ideas through. Sega might still be in the hardware biz.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Wasn't Sony like Apple is now as far as hardware prestige? What the fuck was Sega doing?
 

androvsky

Member
There has to be more to the story? Like the part that gets glossed over in the Nintendo/Sony fallout is that Sony wanted rights to Nintendo IP and that wasn't acceptable.

Maybe the SEGA deal had something similar, and that's why the board didn't approve it?
That wasn't acceptable? Why we got Zelda CDi then?
 
Wow, never knew this little nugget of history. So Nintendo and Sega both burned Sony and dug their own graves, Sega in almost literal terms.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Never heard that story before and I was reading up on everything back then! I guess that's karma for you, as Sony went on to literally kick Sega's ass out of the hardware business.
 
I wonder what board of Sega were thinking after the announcement of FF7 exclusive for PS1.

'OH FUCK WHAT HAVE WE DONE'

I doubt it took that long for them to start asking that. They were already in a panic mode in 1995 when Sony announced the price of the PSone.

But we wouldn't know how things would've gone had the teamed up. The G4 documentary talked about how Sony being out on their own with tons of people doubting them, including internal Sony people, made them want to prove everyone wrong. They may have not been as aggressive had they teamed up with Nintendo or Sega.
 

Kainazzo

Member
We had been working on this CD ROM attachment to the Genesis [Mega CD], which we knew really wasn’t adequate, but it taught us how to make games on this format.

I'd never thought about that way. Maybe they knew from the start that the Sega CD wouldn't do well, but it was something they could sacrifice to learn how produce CD games for when it would really matter (Saturn).

Sega America had little faith in the Saturn and was desperate to improve it.

Like with the Dreamcast? Interesting, is there a spec sheet or something that shows what hardware they would've liked to use instead?
 

Eusis

Member
I wonder what board of Sega were thinking after the announcement of FF7 exclusive for PS1.

'OH FUCK WHAT HAVE WE DONE'
Probably had to take a few minutes to process how close they were after failing to get Square games the whole time anyway. Just "oh yeah business as usu-WAIT A SECOND."
 
Japan not listening to what anyone in the US has to say seems like a trend in gaming. Imagine if SoA had actually gotten even half of their ideas through. Sega might still be in the hardware biz.

It's the reason why all of the big Japanese companies that have failed to give enough autonomy to the NA/Euro branches are finding themselves in danger or have found themselves out of the business. Nintendo could certainly learn from Sega's mistakes.
 
They meant gaming hardware.

still doesn't matter. Sony made a shitload of consumer electronics, some of which were many times more complex than a game console.

they owned the professional video market with betacam, invented the CD (with Phillips), and designed the SNES sound chip. Saying Sony didn't know hardware at that time is just mind boggling
 

Savitar

Member
This certainly seems to be an issue that still goes on even today.

If you read up on the history of Sega you'll see the American branch come up with some great ideas, suggestions and hardware itself only to be denied by the Japanese branch who always made things worse.
 

BadWolf

Member
This certainly seems to be an issue that still goes on even today.

If you read up on the history of Sega you'll see the American branch come up with some great ideas, suggestions and hardware itself only to be denied by the Japanese branch who always made things worse.

Yeah, luckily the current Sony seems to have addressed this very issue.
 

ascii42

Member
still doesn't matter. Sony made a shitload of consumer electronics, some of which were many times more complex than a game console.

they owned the professional video market with betacam, invented the CD (with Phillips), and designed the SNES sound chip. Saying Sony didn't know hardware at that time is just mind boggling

Plus, by that point they had done some work with console hardware (in the CD attachments for both the SNES and the Genesis).
 
I wonder what board of Sega were thinking after the announcement of FF7 exclusive for PS1.

'OH FUCK WHAT HAVE WE DONE'

I'm dying over here, literally imagining them in a room panicking and screaming "we're screwed!".
I was a sega fan when i was growing up (but i liked nintendo too), but they really made some awful decisions, and too many of them.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
There has to be more to the story? Like the part that gets glossed over in the Nintendo/Sony fallout is that Sony wanted rights to Nintendo IP and that wasn't acceptable.

Maybe the SEGA deal had something similar, and that's why the board didn't approve it?
False. What Sony wanted was to collect revenue from the CD sales while Nintendo collect revenue from Cartridge sales but they hadn't discussed royalties and as everyone knows Nintendo use to be a very cutthroat strict company so they said NO. They wanted to keep revenue from all sources since the hardware itself was a modified SNES with Sony's CD technology.
 
False. What Sony wanted was to collect revenue from the CD sales while Nintendo collect revenue from Cartridge sales but they hadn't discussed royalties and as everyone knows Nintendo use to be a very cutthroat strict company so they said NO.

yep. Nintendo was VERY attached to their cartridge royalties at that time. It's not an accident that both the Sony AND Phillips deals fell through, and when an attachment was planned for the N64 it was a proprietary magnetic/optical cartridge, not a CD.
 

Mitsurux

Member
Never heard that story before and I was reading up on everything back then! I guess that's karma for you, as Sony went on to literally kick Sega's ass out of the hardware business.

Me too... This is the first i've heard of a Sony Sega Hardware partnership...

Imagesoft made games (Or published) for a multitude of consoles of the time..... so it wasn't that exclusive of a deal... unless it was specific games.. but the majority of the Image soft/Digital Pictures games also got relased for the 3DO....

I would LOVE for someone to do a real indepth documentry film about the history and behind the scenes events that led to the PS1 creation... simply facinating.
 
I wonder if software support from Sega would have been that strong, if they planned to rely on them

They had Nights and Panzer Dragoon, but Sony imo got better first party developer on their end to take Nintendo on.

Like with the Dreamcast?

The Dreamcast was designed in junction with the American and Japanese branch.
 
There has to be more to the story? Like the part that gets glossed over in the Nintendo/Sony fallout is that Sony wanted rights to Nintendo IP and that wasn't acceptable.

Maybe the SEGA deal had something similar, and that's why the board didn't approve it?

That's an incredible over simplification of what actually happened. In 1988 when Nintendo and Sony were working together on the sound chip for the SNES, Sony approached Nintendo with the idea for a CD-ROM add on. Sony had just finished it CD-XA patent that allowed for redbook and digital data on the same disc. At that time, they came to the agreement.

While it is true that Sony wanted the rights on the CD-Based software, Nintendo had agreed to it, they had the contract in place. Realize that in 1988, CD-ROM was both incredibly expensive, and not on the market yet. NECs CDROM2 add on was not even on the market until December that year. IMO, Nintendo thought the CD tech would go nowhere.

By 1991, it was a different story, the CDROM2 had been a huge success for their main competitor in Japan, NEC and Sony had been moving along with their Play Station and Super CD add ons. Now with the contract in place and Nintendo not happy with it, there were several different things they could have done. Nintendo picked the worst one, they publically humiliated Sony at the summer CES, and partnered with their biggest foreign rival when it came to CD technology.

Yamauchi played hardball with Sony and lost. Flat out. And Nintendo payed for it.

I do remember reading that at one point, there was a 3-way deal between Sony/Sega/Nintendo on a CD-ROM unit, though that also went nowhere fast. This story speaks of the arrogance at Sega at the time though, the Japanese branch simply would not admit to needing partnerships outside of their small circle. The history of the Sega Saturn is a tragic one indeed.
 
It's kinda funny how things turned out in the end. Sony is part of the big three and Sega went bankrupt and started making games for everyone lol
 
To be fair it seems Nintendo came to realize that Sony was planning to use and discard them in the end. Nintendo simply bailed on them first to humiliated them as a strike back.

??

Nintendo was already using Sonys sound hardware for the SNES. yes, backstabbing the company that helped build your console is brilliant strategy.
 
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