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[kuroshiki]

To be fair it seems Nintendo came to realize that Sony was planning to use and discard them in the end. Nintendo simply bailed on them first to humiliated them as a strike back.

How? Sony was even not sure about putting Sony name on the PS. It was uncharted territory. Kutaragi basically have to fight arms and legs to make PS a reality.

Sony board was furious at the time when Nintendo ditched them and went to philips instead.

How Sony was planning to use nintendo and discard them in the end?

 

[boingball]

Well, that worked out well for Sega.

 

[Tripolygon]

To be fair it seems Nintendo came to realize that Sony was planning to use and discard them in the end. Nintendo simply bailed on them first to humiliated them as a strike back.

Nonsense, it was all about money and nothing more. Being rejected by 2 major console makers made them decide to go it alone since they wanted in on the console business so much.

Funfact: Sony published games for Nintendo and SEGA hardwares prior to them introducing the PlayStation brand.

 

[Het_Nkik]

But Sega had already collaborated with Sony on the Sega CD.

So you're agreeing they didn't know how to make game hardware.

 

[IonicSnake]

Yeah, you could make a fairly intriguing documentary over this whole ordeal.

There is one actually. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryi1QBA6XyI

 

[reminder]

Wow. Both Nintendo and Sega turned Sony down.

And i guess both of them regretted their choice badly at some point.

I'm happy how everything turned out, though.

 

[-Eddman-]

To be fair it seems Nintendo came to realize that Sony was planning to use and discard them in the end. Nintendo simply bailed on them first to humiliated them as a strike back.

Yep, In fact the whole story about Nintendo ditching the PlayStation was because they realized in the last minute that Sony wanted all the royalties from the CD issued games, using Nintendo's position in the industry at the time.

It's not like a huge corporation like Sony was going to protect the interests of the smaller companies. They would have ended like current Rare within Microsoft, most probably.

 

[Zero-Crescent]

I remember when he mentioned these things during that Sega-16(?) interview a few years back. Interesting stuff. Really a textbook International Business case on how not to treat your successful international subsidiaries.

I can see the "no software experience" point, since all Sony released at that point were just some FMV games, but the "no (console) hardware experience" was a dumb point. Of course Sony didn't have console experience, but they still had hardware design experience and capability in other fields, that's why they wanted to partner with someone who did have console experience so that they could pool their intellectual resources and save costs. If they had all of the skills Sega of Japan wanted, they'd just make their own console (which they eventually did). Really, it sounds like Sega of Japan was hoping for a proposal from one of their direct competitors, like NEC or Sharp.

 

[ascii42]

Yep, In fact the whole story about Nintendo ditching the PlayStation was because they realized in the last minute that Sony wanted all the royalties from the CD issued games, using Nintendo's position in the industry at the time.

Which is why normally it's a good idea to read contracts before you sign them.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

haha all the stories about how sony entered the console business really feel like they mainly did it to shove a huge middle finger at everyone who shunned them.

 

[Teletraan1]

So Sony is pretty much the super villain created by the good guys.

I always preferred Cobra and Decepticons over Joes and Autobots. Explains my affinity towards Sony.

 

[bishopcruz]

Nonsense, it was all about money and nothing more. Being rejected by 2 major console makers made them decide to go it alone since they wanted in on the console business so much.

Funfact: Sony published games for Nintendo and SEGA hardwares prior to them introducing the PlayStation brand.

No, the board was NOT onboard with doing their own system. We can never know for absolute certain but from the memoirs of Norio Ohga talked about how there was a big debate after they got humiliated by Nintendo. Kutaragi went to Ohga and said, "If we stop now, we'll be the laughing stocks of the industry." And the rest is history. Sony wanted a partnership to enter the hardware side, but when they ran out of options, they said "fuck it" we'll do it ourselves.

 

[Shadow Hog]

I'd heard about this on HG101 a while ago; wasn't sure how common knowledge it was.

We could've had a Sega PlayStation with Final Fantasy VII, the Panzer Dragoon trilogy, Metal Gear Solid, NiGHTS Into Dreams, Spyro the Dragon, Burning Rangers, Gran Turismo, Daytona USA, Tekken and Virtua Fighter all one on console. It would truly have been the console of the forever.

 

[kuroshiki]

I'd heard about this on HG101 a while ago; wasn't sure how common knowledge it was.

We could've had a Sega PlayStation with Final Fantasy VII, the Panzer Dragoon trilogy, Metal Gear Solid, NiGHTS Into Dreams, Spyro the Dragon, Burning Rangers, Gran Turismo, Daytona USA, Tekken and Virtua Fighter all one on console. It would truly have been the console of the forever.

Damn.

now think about it if this thing was the case then Sega would have dominated the market.

 

[bangai-o]

So Sony wanted to team up with Nintendo, they turned 'em down.
Then they wanted to team up with Sega, they turned 'em down.
Then Sony made their own thing and burried the competition.

team up. take over. same difference.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Sega Japan really did screw the pooch on things. If they had listened to their American division more often and given them more decision making authority, the company would probably still be in the hardware business.

Yep, In fact the whole story about Nintendo ditching the PlayStation was because they realized in the last minute that Sony wanted all the royalties from the CD issued games, using Nintendo's position in the industry at the time.

It's not like a huge corporation like Sony was going to protect the interests of the smaller companies. They would have ended like current Rare within Microsoft, most probably.

I've always found it impressive how Sony has managed to escape the corporate vulture image in the States despite having used some pretty dirty tactics throughout their time in the gaming industry. I don't know how reliable this is, but I was told that's not the case in Japan?

 

[Vespene]

Regardless of history, I do see Nintendo and Sega's perspective. They were approached by another party who proposed taking away part of their manufacturing infrastructure in favor of their's, for a slice at the market. Both Nintendo and Sega, being in positions of power, didn't want to share the cake. They wanted to have complete control of their boxes and thus complete control of their profits.

By not wanting to share a slice of the cake, the lost the whole cake.

 

[Dysun]

Interesting that both Nintendo and Sega turned them away.
That sure did come back to bite them

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I'd heard about this on HG101 a while ago; wasn't sure how common knowledge it was.

We could've had a Sega PlayStation with Final Fantasy VII, the Panzer Dragoon trilogy, Metal Gear Solid, NiGHTS Into Dreams, Spyro the Dragon, Burning Rangers, Gran Turismo, Daytona USA, Tekken and Virtua Fighter all one on console. It would truly have been the console of the forever.

a console with the ps1 and saturn library mixed together would have been something out of this world.

 

[Teletraan1]

If you put yourself on that board at the time though Sega did make some pretty insane Arcade hardware back then so i could kinda see where they were coming from with not wanting their hardware expertise. Hindsight is a bitch.

 

[moolhy]

So Sony is pretty much the super villain created by the good guys.

Exactly what I thought! xD

They came back with a vengeance. Except they turned out pretty alright.

I also can't help but think how many young engineers would have made a killing and established themselves early on had all those ideas been approved. Which leads me to think that the refusal was partly due to fear and greed.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

holy crap.. never knew they went to Sega too!

It's hilarious that both didn't want to work with Sony. Nintendo because of the disagreement in royalties and Sega because of them having no confidence in Sony's ability to make gaming hardware or software....

I'm glad the both didn't team up with Sony or else who knows wtf would have happened.

Sony must have had the biggest "I TOLD YOU SO" moment after the PS1 lit the world on fire.

 

[Drek]

Regardless of history, I do see Nintendo and Sega's perspective. They were approached by another party who proposed taking away part of their manufacturing infrastructure in favor of their's, for a slice at the market. Both Nintendo and Sega, being in positions of power, didn't want to share the cake. They wanted to have complete control of their boxes and thus complete control of their profits.

By not wanting to share a slice of the cake, the lost the whole cake.

What's worse is that the 32 bit generation (when Sony was looking to jump in) was when hardware went into the break even/loss producer territory, so Sony's partnership was more or less Sony offering to split those hardware losses in exchange for control of the format, which at the time was Sony's big deal (winning format wars after losing the BetaMax v. VHS battle).

 

[Vandiger]

I don't want to be reminded of the ineptitude of Sega. A sega playstation, would have been my dream system as a kid.

 

[Slermy]

Sega's current position in the market could very well have been very different if they had teamed up with Sony.

True, but then that probably wouldn't have led to the bright spot which was the Dreamcast. Sega's output then was really top notch.

 

[Drek]

So Sony is pretty much the super villain created by the good guys.

So what you're saying is:
Nintendo + Sega:

Sony:

Microsoft:

 

[Shadow Hog]

True, but then that probably wouldn't have led to the bright spot which was the Dreamcast. Sega's output then was really top notch.

That's just a holdover from their output on the Saturn, really. It was top-notch for both.

And in this hypothetical alternate universe, it'd have been top-notch on a "Sega PlayStation".

 

[ElFly]

If you put yourself on that board at the time though Sega did make some pretty insane Arcade hardware back then so i could kinda see where they were coming from with not wanting their hardware expertise. Hindsight is a bitch.

Sega never put their arcade hardware expertise to work on the console side, though, probably because the chips their arcade hardware used was always a couple of orders of magnitude more expensive than what they could use on a console.

So with the Genesis, Saturn and Dreamcast, they launched consoles that had trouble playing their ports/conversions of their own arcade games.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sega never put their arcade hardware expertise to work on the console side, though, probably because the chips their arcade hardware used was always a couple of orders of magnitude more expensive than what they could use on a console.

So with the Genesis, Saturn and Dreamcast, they launched consoles that had trouble playing their ports/conversions of their own arcade games.

That was never more clear than with the Saturn. The funny thing is that it was actually Virtua Fighter that ended up shaping Sony's vision for what they'd focus on with the PSone's tech (3D). Before then they were still kicking around ideas about making a 2D-focused platform.

 

[Akkad]

Good for Sony, can't imagine a world with only fucking Nintendo games.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Wow, the board completely screwed them over. Sega's current position in the market could very well have been very different if they had teamed up with Sony.

Hard to say. Would Sony have catapulted SEGA to the top? Or would SEGA have brought Sony down?

Personally, I would guess the latter, since Sony would probably create tech and fund games, then be hands-off, letting SEGA run things as the more experienced game company.

 

[I-hate-u]

I think Sega would have slowed Kutaragi down.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Good for Sony, can't imagine a world with only fucking Nintendo games.

Eh, we had Sega games, too. And I can remember a world where there weren't big corporate conglomerates ruling games like they do now. The pre-MS/Sony console days were nice.

 

[Tripolygon]

No, the board was NOT onboard with doing their own system. We can never know for absolute certain but from the memoirs of Norio Ohga talked about how there was a big debate after they got humiliated by Nintendo. Kutaragi went to Ohga and said, "If we stop now, we'll be the laughing stocks of the industry." And the rest is history. Sony wanted a partnership to enter the hardware side, but when they ran out of options, they said "fuck it" we'll do it ourselves.

Is essentially what i said. And it was about money, Nintendo reneged on their deal with Sony because Sony wanted to keep the money made from CD sales. Kutaragi as well as a few others at Sony saw the potential to make money in the industry so they pursued it, they partnered with CBS and formed CSG a 3rd party publishing company which is now SCEA long before kutaragi thought of PlayStation. Of course being rejected and humiliated added fuel to the fire but that is not why they got into the gaming industry.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

NEVER FORGET!

I love these kinds of stories.
I remember a few Sony/Imagesoft games for the Sega CD (particularly Dracula, Sewer Shark, & licensed garbage like HOOK and 3 Ninjas), but I never knew they were that close to teaming up like that).

 

[FrozenCell]

oh shit

 

[timetokill]

Good for Sony, can't imagine a world with only fucking Nintendo games.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

So much fun reading how the PS brand came about .
Sega and Nintendo ditch Sony and they came back and made everyone there bitch .

 

[Celine]

There are many "funny" stories about the hardware makers.
Like how Sega turned down what became the N64, or a deal between Sega and Matushita/3DO to license the M2 to Sega for its next system.
Or how Atari was given the rights to distribute the NES in US but in the end they turned down the offer.

Just finished reading this article as well. It's amazing how Nintendo and SEGA both shunned Sony only to end up creating their largest competitor. Looking back, it's pretty nuts.

It's easy to shun a big company that is very successful in another business which want a [big] piece of your cake.

 

[Off-Kilter]

So another story of how the Japanese bigwigs refused to entertain the ideas from their Western colleagues and stuck to tradition. Man, Nintendo and Sega execs must have felt like crap when the PlayStation started picking up steam.

The inception of Playstation really is fascinating

It truly is. Good read.

 

[-Eddman-]

Good for Sony, can't imagine a world with only fucking Nintendo games.

This is funny, because in the 32/64-bit gen Nintendo was the console to go if you wanted FPS, Racing, and the best versions of (american) football games.

 

[Biker19]

Wow, the board completely screwed them over. Sega's current position in the market could very well have been very different if they had teamed up with Sony.

No doubt. And the PS brand probably wouldn't have existed.

I wonder how big the shit storm was back then after that announcement.

VERY, very big, as I remember it. A lot of Nintendo fanboys back then assumed that FFVII would be a N64 exclusive title just like FFI to FFVI were exclusive on both the NES & SNES, but Square was fed up with Nintendo & their policies as well as with the limitations on cartridges. So they said, "Fuck it, we're going to make FFVII PS1 exclusive!".

If it took 3 CD-ROM discs to fit the entire game, imagine how many N64 carts it would take just for that one game.

 

[DBT85]

Read this article on the way home. I knew about the Nintendo stuff but not about the Sega stuff.

I now just imagine both boards of directors sitting there with the "I've made a terrible mistake" gif playing over and over.

They created their biggest competition, they fueled them to go it alone and show them how wrong they were to doubt one of the best hardware manufacturers of the time. It wasn't until the Wii, coupled with Sony's arrogance and bone headed decisions, that one of them managed to get a decent foothold in home console territory again.

 

[Suairyu]

Man, the more you read about SEGA back then, the more you see the US division knowing the writing on the wall and the JP division constantly fucking things up for them and the company.

Like, the 32X is often attributed to SoA, but they only designed it on SoJ's instruction (SoJ originally thought it would be smart to make an entire stop-gap CONSOLE in the build up to the Saturn - SoA luckily talked them down to just an add-on)

 

[Slermy]

That's just a holdover from their output on the Saturn, really. It was top-notch for both.

And in this hypothetical alternate universe, it'd have been top-notch on a "Sega PlayStation".

Oh, the Saturn output was good too (Burning Rangers, Nights, Virtua Fighter, etc.), but I feel the quantity of quality titles in such a short amount of time still goes to the Dreamcast.

Good for Sony, can't imagine a world with only fucking Nintendo games.

What does this even mean?

 

[CaptainABAB]

Sega Japan really did screw the pooch on things. If they had listened to their American division more often and given them more decision making authority, the company would probably still be in the hardware business.

Wasn't the American division responsible for the 32x?

 

[Evolution_1ne]

I know a guy who hates Sony for what they did to Sega during the Dreamcast era, if he knew this shit I wonder what he'd feel

 

[Eusis]

??

Nintendo was already using Sonys sound hardware for the SNES. yes, backstabbing the company that helped build your console is brilliant strategy.

Sony was going to exploit them as already clarified, it's less backstabbing and more a rather harsh and final rebuttal from Hiroshi Yamauchi. I do imagine they could've tried to renegotiate and split royalty revenue and try to leverage more control over the platform, then if THAT failed go ahead and bail out of the deal entirely, possibly with less resentment on both sides. Not that I can know all of what went on there, but Hiroshi Yamauchi's viciousness is well renowned.

Wasn't the American division responsible for the 32x?

A huge problem was that they simply weren't working together well at all. I'd need to dig up the history on that and see whether it was a misguided step forward or the result of not being allowed to collaborate on the Saturn yet HAVING to do something. At any rate Sega was just a clusterfuck and if Sony saved them it'd probably be via eventually absorbing them entirely.

 

[ascii42]

This is funny, because in the 32/64-bit gen Nintendo was the console to go if you wanted FPS, Racing, and the best versions of (american) football games.

All three systems had pretty awesome racing games, I'd say.

 

[Into]

While it seems absolutely insane today to think that both Nintendo and Sega turned their backs to Sony, only for Sony to return and change the industry forever, put Nintendo to the side, take their crown, steal all the third party publishers, put them on their side and outright be a huge factor for Sega's exit out of the console industry a few years later.

...But back then before the PSX came out Sony's attempt at entering the business was seen as serious as Phillips attempt, the Jaguar, Sega CD and the rest. So i can almost understand why they disregarded Sony like this, it was a different time, things were changing and nobody but Sony really knew it.

With just their debut console, they nudged Sega out, and it would take Nintendo 10 years before they got back at the top again. That is really impressive for a company that most regarded as "not having a clue" when it came to videogames back in early 90s.