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RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(03-03-2014, 02:40 AM)
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The discussion was starting to take over the other thread about this article and since it's only one small point and we didn't know this before, it would be best to make another thread.

Originally Posted by Richard Leadbetter

In the single-player mode, the game runs at full 1080p with an unlocked frame-rate (though a 30fps cap has been introduced as an option in a recent patch), but it's a different story altogether with multiplayer. Here Guerrilla Games has opted for a 960x1080 framebuffer, in pursuit of a 60fps refresh. Across a range of clips, we see the game handing in a 50fps average on multiplayer. It makes a palpable difference, but it's probably not the sort of boost you might expect from halving fill-rate.

Now, there are some mitigating factors here. Shadow Fall uses a horizontal interlace, with every other column of pixels generated using a temporal upscale - in effect, information from previously rendered frames is used to plug the gaps. The fact that few have actually noticed that any upscale at all is in place speaks to its quality, and we can almost certainly assume that this effect is not cheap from a computational perspective. However, at the same time it also confirms that a massive reduction in fill-rate isn't a guaranteed dead cert for hitting 60fps. Indeed, Shadow Fall multiplayer has a noticeably variable frame-rate - even though the fill-rate gain and the temporal upscale are likely to give back and take away fixed amounts of GPU time. Whatever is stopping Killzone from reaching 60fps isn't down to pixel fill-rate, and based on what we learned from our trip to Amsterdam last year, we're pretty confident it's not the CPU in this case either.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...0p30-or-720p60

I was very disappointed to learn this. I always thought that the added blur in MP was due to a poor implementation of FXAA but in reality it's not rendering too many more pixels than 720p. I have no idea why this wasn't mentioned in their previous article about the game's tech since he clearly talked to GG about it back then. For me this really kills my opinion of the tech on the multiplayer side of the game. Low res and can't hit 60fps regularly. They even claimed full res too

EDIT
Explanation of the interlacing/reprojection process. Seems to be fairly computationally heavy and produces better results than a traditional upscale.

Originally Posted by ArchedThunder

Some people seem to be a little confused at the resolution thinking that it upscales from 960x1080 to 1920x1080 like you would upscale a sub 1080p game to 1080p, it doesn't. I made some images to help.

Okay, so let's say the red lines are what is being updated while the black lines are empty space.

Now this is what it looks like on frame 1
On frame 2 this is what it looks like

And when frame 2 comes it it blurs the information from frame 1 to fill in the black spaces. This is why it looks fine when standing still but looks blurry and odd in motion. If we could take a single frame of KZSF's multiplayer with this effect turned off it would look something like this.
Zoom in to see the full effect.

The grey lines are dead space where nothing is being rendered on this frame.

So techinically the game is rendering at 1920x1080, just not on each frame.

Last edited by RoboPlato; 03-04-2014 at 12:30 PM.
jackissocool
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(03-03-2014, 02:42 AM)
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I haven't noticed. Still looks beautiful and crisp to me.
UnluckyKate
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(03-03-2014, 02:42 AM)
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Crazy no one noticed and he didn't test the MP when it came out.
Zeppeli
Banned
(03-03-2014, 02:43 AM)
That's... A really weird res to render at
TheRealTalker
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(03-03-2014, 02:43 AM)
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really odd res


the missing height pixels
Last edited by TheRealTalker; 03-03-2014 at 02:48 AM.
UnluckyKate
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(03-03-2014, 02:43 AM)
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So Guerilla are just humans after all. Time for Naughty Gods and Santa Monica's Magicians to roll in
Fornaximus
Banned
(03-03-2014, 02:44 AM)
How is something like this just now coming to light with so much attention being given to resolution this generation?
Metalingus5150
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(03-03-2014, 02:44 AM)
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How is it that we're barely finding out now?
TEH-CJ
Junior Member
(03-03-2014, 02:44 AM)
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Funny thing is, after going back to the campaign after 3 month break. I am starting to enjoy it. I think the patches released improved the game.

multiplayer was always blurry to me. Makes sense now.
VanWinkle
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(03-03-2014, 02:44 AM)
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That must be why the game looks way worse in multiplayer. I figured it was all because of the FXAA. Really disappointing, especially considering the game doesn't get close to 60fps most of the time.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
(03-03-2014, 02:44 AM)
Funny how no one noticed this.

Just like they didn't notice Playstation 4 was running Ghost at 720p instead of 1080p during Previews.

Pixel Counters be sleeping on the job. ;)
Team Vernia
(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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That means the resolution is much closer to 720p than 900p. Couple that with the crazy FoV, and yeah... this explains why MP looks so bad in the game.
dLMN8R
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(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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The fact that no one knew or cared about this shows just how little all this shit matters outside of petty console wars on either side. Always built up into the worst news ever when publicized, but if no one bothers to check, no one knows or cares at all.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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Nobody noticed, well played Guerilla.
antitrop
does not much care for
anti-shooter bias
(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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Really? It took this long to figure out?
iceatcs
Junior Member
(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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That explain what I saw the different of IQ between SP and MP. I thought it was cheap AA.
Officerrob
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(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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Wow, that's....odd
Chuck
Still without luck
(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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this is an image in that resolution



...wat
Sophia
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(03-03-2014, 02:45 AM)
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However, at the same time it also confirms that a massive reduction in fill-rate isn't a guaranteed dead cert for hitting 60fps. Indeed, Shadow Fall multiplayer has a noticeably variable frame-rate

Doesn't that just strike me as insanely obvious? I mean, it's multuplayer. Of course you're going to lose framerates when an excessive amount of stuff is happening on screen. Especially when the developer has limited control over what players do.

I'm not terribly bothered by this resolution news, but I am kind of disappointed it's not true 1080p. But hey, nobody noticed until, so kudos to GG for masking it so well.
Dictator93
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(03-03-2014, 02:46 AM)
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There was a lot of evidence to this given the strange dithering shown in multiplayer for the game.

Somehow, people missed its technical explanation till now.

Everyone knew the game looked dithered and low res though in multiplayer.... but just did not know what it exactly was.
Chobel
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(03-03-2014, 02:46 AM)
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This means Sony lied

Then thereís the competitive multiplayer mode which, like the gameís campaign, runs at native 1080p and 60 fps.

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2013/...layer-footage/
VanWinkle
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(03-03-2014, 02:47 AM)
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It makes me mad that Sony/Guerilla weren't upfront about this.

Originally Posted by Speedy Blue Dude

Funny how no one noticed this.

Just like they didn't notice Playstation 4 was running Ghost at 720p instead of 1080p during Previews.

Pixel Counters be sleeping on the job. ;)

People had no reason to believe that the game was running at a lower resolution, but MANY noticed how much blurrier it is than single player. It's just that we assumed it was a horrible AA solution, but it turns out that's not the only reason.
KJRS_1993
Banned
(03-03-2014, 02:47 AM)
Is this really that important of a detail?

edit: I hate to sound like a jerk. But I mean, really?
GrumpyOutlander
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(03-03-2014, 02:47 AM)
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Seems like there is a fuss about every games resolution and framerate on next gen systems unless it is a PS4 exclusive.
peterb0y
(03-03-2014, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Chobel

This means Sony lied



http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2013/...layer-footage/

Welp
Havel
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(03-03-2014, 02:47 AM)
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They may as well have kept 1920x1080 in MP, as even with that weird res the framerate is all over the place. They should have lowered some effects and kept it at a rock solid 30fps @1080p in MP.
Lima
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(03-03-2014, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by UnluckyKate

Crazy no one noticed and he didn't test the MP when it came out.

What? Many people did. They just blamed it on a really bad implementation of FXAA.

The MP looks very sub 1080. It's the first thing I noticed when I started playing it especially after coming out of the SP.
stfuppercut
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(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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strange that the game runs at that resolution and still can't hold the claimed "60fps most of the time" that GG said. 24 man warzone dips to sub30 at times, it's really bad.

at least now we know why the MP is such a blur
boredandlazy
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(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by dLMN8R

The fact that no one knew or cared about this shows just how little all this shit matters outside of petty console wars on either side. Always built up into the worst news ever when publicized, but if no one bothers to check, no one knows or cares at all.

No, in fact it's the complete opposite. People have always wondered why the multiplayer was a blurry mess compared to single player, and now we know exactly why.
CronoShot
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(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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How on earth did no one notice this until now?

Too busy making fun of Xbox One games not being 1080p?
VanWinkle
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(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by GrumpyOutlander

Seems like there is a fuss about every games resolution and framerate on next gen systems unless it is a PS4 exclusive.

...where did you gather that from? We just heard about this like five seconds ago.
Mihael Mello Keehl
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(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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Proves how meaningless resolution is until someone tells people what it is
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
This for some reason impresses me more, from the standpoint of their technical ingenuity. Temporal upscale was a serious WTF when I read about it here. No one seemed to have a clue that there was any upscale happening when the game was first analyzed.

Originally Posted by Mihael Mello Keehl

Proves how meaningless resolution is until someone tells people what it is

Everyone saw that IQ in multiplayer was worse, but no one could figure out why exactly. What they've done was a stroke of genius IMO.
gundamkyoukai
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(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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This just shows how many mistakes DF have been making lately if this just come to light .
Still that is a weird res to chose .
ViewtifulJC
shots fired? we run!
(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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"We SAID 1080!"
UnluckyKate
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(03-03-2014, 02:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Chuck

this is an image in that resolution



...wat

Console / tv upscale by doubling the pixels wide
Frayne Daddy
Banned
(03-03-2014, 02:49 AM)
I thought many on here could easily tell the difference between 1080p and anything less.... Guess we are all blind and should go get our eyes checked.
gigantor21
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(03-03-2014, 02:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by KJRS_1993

Is this really that important of a detail?

edit: I hate to sound like a jerk. But I mean, really?

...have you not logged on here since last January? LOL

Seriously, though, that has to be the most random resolution drop I've ever heard of.
Bornstellar
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(03-03-2014, 02:49 AM)
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This is highly ironic.
op_ivy
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(03-03-2014, 02:49 AM)
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what? but everyone told me 1080p makes such a difference and you can spot lower res from a mile away!
jett
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(03-03-2014, 02:49 AM)
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I'm impressed it went unnoticed for so long. People at GG must've been quite sheepish for months. :P
boredandlazy
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(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by GrumpyOutlander

Seems like there is a fuss about every games resolution and framerate on next gen systems unless it is a PS4 exclusive.

So this thread was made because there's no fuss? What?
Cheesecakebobby
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(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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I wonder how many of the people who laughed at the suggestion that 900p isn't noticeably worse than 1080p on most TVs were happily playing this thinking they were enjoying full 1080p HD.

Oh well, 1080p didn't stop the single player from being mediocre anyway. First and so far only PS4 game I've sold.
VanWinkle
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(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Frayne Daddy

I thought many on here could easily tell the difference between 1080p and anything less.... Guess we are all blind and should go get our eyes checked.

We all thought it was blurry, but were led to believe it was native 1080p, thus we thought it must have been the AA solution. Don't talk about something you obviously know nothing about, please.
Team Vernia
(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Chobel

This means Sony lied



http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2013/...layer-footage/

Well they claimed 1080p for wipeout HD, didn't they? I guess the second number is all that matters to them.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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GrimlÝck
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(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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just move your couch back and squint a little.
rokkerkory
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(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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whoa interesting, oh wells it looks good
Byakuya769
Santa is Black
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If I buy a WiiU
(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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This gen is going to be so wack.
David___
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(03-03-2014, 02:50 AM)
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