DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Essentially the whole piece expects these smart TVs to be widely adopted and rapidly replace our existing ones.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The death of the Game Console
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
- Start date
Essentially the whole piece expects these smart TVs to be widely adopted and rapidly replace our existing ones.
Nicktendo86
Member
Yep, put it much better than I could.
I can agree with this.
It's the reason I still play consoles over building a PC.
Simplicity.
SerTapTap
Member
Smart TVs are idiotic BTW. You're putting hardware that's outdated in a year in a device outdated in 5-10 years. Dumb glass FTW, get a cheap replacable box to plug into it or you're getting screwed.
Boomstompfloppy
Banned
I believe consoles will die but I think streaming solutions on smart tvs and streaming boxes will happen before pcs take over mainstream living rooms.
barneystuta83
Member
Even with the impending Steam Machines, the one thing that puts me off PC gaming, is the requirements/spec of the game.
A console game for my console will always work just as well as any other of the same console. There is no extra performance boost/loss, no tweaks I need to make, nothing. It works. It is designed to work on that hardware.
On a PC, there is a wide range of hardware the game has to work on. Yes, you can play around with different settings to make the run/look better, but as a console owner, I don't want that. I want it to work. I want to get in from work, open up my newly delivered copy of a game, stick it in, and play.
Then you have online games. If I am playing an FPS game, someone with a higher resolution, could have an advantage. How is that fair they can tell the difference between me and a tree at a distance?
Or it can work the other way. With low graphics details, you are getting less foliage, so that guy who thinks he is hiding in some grass cos he has a GTX over 9000? Well, I have an onboard graphics card on my laptop, so I see no foliage, just you.
If Steam Machines/PC's can solve the specs problem, making every game work out the box, with then it is no longer a PC. It will have to be a closed platform, which in effect, is a console.
tl;dr For PC's to take over, they have to become consoles. Consoles still exist. The end.
A console game for my console will always work just as well as any other of the same console. There is no extra performance boost/loss, no tweaks I need to make, nothing. It works. It is designed to work on that hardware.
On a PC, there is a wide range of hardware the game has to work on. Yes, you can play around with different settings to make the run/look better, but as a console owner, I don't want that. I want it to work. I want to get in from work, open up my newly delivered copy of a game, stick it in, and play.
Then you have online games. If I am playing an FPS game, someone with a higher resolution, could have an advantage. How is that fair they can tell the difference between me and a tree at a distance?
Or it can work the other way. With low graphics details, you are getting less foliage, so that guy who thinks he is hiding in some grass cos he has a GTX over 9000? Well, I have an onboard graphics card on my laptop, so I see no foliage, just you.
If Steam Machines/PC's can solve the specs problem, making every game work out the box, with then it is no longer a PC. It will have to be a closed platform, which in effect, is a console.
tl;dr For PC's to take over, they have to become consoles. Consoles still exist. The end.
CitizenCope
Member
Exactly. I'm 40+ yrs old and still have no idea what a driver is. There are millions upon millions of lazy people like me that don't want to learn this type of stuff and just want to game. Once a PC type machine can offer plug in and play and has the advertising power to convey this to those millions like me your post looks like crazy talk. With all do respect of course.
Atraveller
Banned
You don't do that with console games?
OnimaruXLR
Member
Nintendo's probably gonna still make people buy hardware to play their games. So... no.
Also, isn't there a lot to be said for the built-in support that a platform owner can provide?
Also, isn't there a lot to be said for the built-in support that a platform owner can provide?
U n i o n 0015
Member
Until PCs have a useable front-end that is seen from start-up to shutdown by the user, they'll always be the more enthusiast platform.
Consoles are still very simple devices to use and you rarely have to diagnose or troubleshoot anything. PC games are a lot less finicky now, but there's still plenty of issues out there when developers are having to address endless hardware configurations.
Don't get me wrong, I want to see it. I want a 360-sized console PC with a flawless Big Picture UI, but until it's as easy to use as a PS3/4, it's not going to be the dominant device.
Consoles are still very simple devices to use and you rarely have to diagnose or troubleshoot anything. PC games are a lot less finicky now, but there's still plenty of issues out there when developers are having to address endless hardware configurations.
Don't get me wrong, I want to see it. I want a 360-sized console PC with a flawless Big Picture UI, but until it's as easy to use as a PS3/4, it's not going to be the dominant device.
ComputerMKII
Banned
jeff_rigby
Banned
Uh, I posted on BY3D in 2011 that the PS4 and likely the PS3 XMB would be a Webkit browser desktop (Still waiting on the PS3). On NeoGAF in late 2011 that Sony was using Gnome Mobile APIs for the PS3 and likely the PS4, predicted that PS Mobile was Mono which is a Gnome VM and all correct. My errors were in insisting Gstreamer would be used and speculation on a future PS3 refresh at 22nm.
In late 2012 I put together they (Sony and Microsoft) were going to support the 2007 CEA-2014 which is Vidipath (DLNA CVP2) and the Comcast RDK to support Vidipath uses Gnome Mobile Linux software and Gstreamer.....
So I saw the patterns and where they pointed, dug up Sony sending a PS3 developer kit to Collabora, a Gstreamer developer. Found the Leaked 2010 Microsoft 720 Powerpoint which confirmed Microsoft and Sony plans that are still being followed.
Sony does not at this time support OpenGL on the PS3, they use a game engine to support Cairo. This apparently for DRM security reasons. You can't have a browser desktop without OpenGL and Cairo. Sony is now porting Playready to the PS3 which requires a rewrite to the protected low level IPTV player. They may update the PS3 XMB to support OpenGL after this. When/if this occurs we will get new apps for the XMB.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
I believe the death of the consoles has been long overdue; specialized hardware is expensive and cumbersome, and they don't even have anymore the exclusivity of major game titles whose appeal reach beyond the 'gamers' demographics. More and more, it will only cater to a small niche of the market before finally disappearing.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
It's not just that. Jeff completely missed the part where PC gaming -as we knew it- actually did die. (PCs are not dead and will move to the living room). I mean the high profile, stand alone game died on the PC and it moved on to the console. You still get ports of course but the PC is a secondary marketplace. The console goes, the AAA single player title goes. PC gaming (as far as revenue goes) is free to play, is microtransaction, is mmo, is games-as-a-service.
You're telling me they'll play Nintendo games? O_O
Now, seriously, gaming is about games, people will buy the system that lets them play the games they want, PCs can get as powerful, easy to use, comprehensive as they want, but if Square only publishes FFXV on PS4, fans will buy the console. Now multiply this for each fanbase.
That first post.
OP those NPD figures sure show consoles are dead don't they?
Also I'm sure that in 2017 PC will be able to play Nintendo games lol
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Pach and jeff are the exact opposite. One knows the market, the other know the technology.
I miss Michael.
Ban Puncher
Member
If I buy a PC now with a similar spec to the PS4 and the PS4 can still play games in 5 years, what makes you think that the PC will magically degrade?
If you want to play the game at the highest quality setting with all the bells and whistles, then sure you'd have to upgrade your PC. But the consoles aren't getting those bells and whistles due to their spec, either.
PC requirements and console requirements are generally linked. The reason for the increase in recommended specs that are going around now is partly due to the increased spec of consoles this gen. In a way, the fact that consoles hamstring PC min specs for so long is good because it means my 7970 will still be able to play games until the end of this gen's consoles' lifetimes.
I'd say price is also misguided as a reason. I think it would be reasonable to pay say in the region of £650 for a mid spec pc. Over here the cost for a PS4 is in the region of £300. £350 sounds like a big price difference, but when you start looking at the actual cost of games it's a different story. Firstly, you will actually be paying a monthly fee to access whatever online service is required (£40/year on PSN). There's some value to that cost in the free games you receive, but you won't be paying this on a PC. Secondly, the difference in cost between games is significant, especially if you are willing to hold off on buying games immediately or preordering.
Example,
Shadows of Mordor. Currently £19 on Amazon for PC, £28 for PS4/XBONE.
Evil Within: £9 on Amazon for PC, £27.99 for PS4/XBONE
Alien: Isolation: I think this was £15 in the Steam Sale (got it gifted). Currently £24.99 on PS4/XBONE
Evolve: Monster Race on PC is £58.99 - (23% with GMG coupon) = ~£45 with all the currently available announced DLC. Or £45 on PS4/XBONE with the one monster and weapon skin pack.
Acquiescence
Member
I think you're a bit late to be proclaiming this sort of thing. Try again next gen, when the cycle begins anew.
I know I'm in the minority, but I actually find doing most of that stuff fun. Also pc games are so cheap nowadays I can just buy and worry about all that stuff later.
Neue Regel
Banned
We are in the minority, but even still that post isn't exactly fair, console gaming isn't exactly plug and play like it used to be. Plus look at all the buggy games released on consoles lately.
ReBurn
Gold Member
That's a really cool OP and all, but it doesn't address why I game on a console. It also makes the same baseless assumptions that console manufacturers hate each other, ie. Sony using Linux on PS4.
Technology has been at the point where the market hasn't really needed consoles in quite some time. We didn't need PS4 and Xbox One, but we have them because people want them. I want the convenience of plugging in a little box and knowing that everything I want is right there. Can a Steam machine do that? Possibly, but I predict that the market for Steam machines is going to be so fragmented due to every manufacturer having different specs that it will collapse before standard consoles do.
As for the Sony using Linux as their platform on PS4, they would only do that if it made sense. Which it doesn't when whatever they are doing now is working and people want it.
Maybe we will see a one platform future since technology will allow it. But technology is only half of the equation. People want a specific kind of experience, and that is what Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are offering. People won't want to lose the feel of their gaming environment, and convergence is certainly going to take that away.
Technology has been at the point where the market hasn't really needed consoles in quite some time. We didn't need PS4 and Xbox One, but we have them because people want them. I want the convenience of plugging in a little box and knowing that everything I want is right there. Can a Steam machine do that? Possibly, but I predict that the market for Steam machines is going to be so fragmented due to every manufacturer having different specs that it will collapse before standard consoles do.
As for the Sony using Linux as their platform on PS4, they would only do that if it made sense. Which it doesn't when whatever they are doing now is working and people want it.
Maybe we will see a one platform future since technology will allow it. But technology is only half of the equation. People want a specific kind of experience, and that is what Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are offering. People won't want to lose the feel of their gaming environment, and convergence is certainly going to take that away.
jeff_rigby
Banned
TiVo sued the FCC twice and got a delay to June 2015 for the FCC mandate requiring Vidipath (DLNA CVP2) support. In the mean time Cable companies (Comcast) have replaced Cable Modems and now support DOCSIS 3.0, WiFi, DLNA and Samba network drives. They are now supporting the CVP2 portion of DLNA CVP2 with playready and VOD IPTV streaming. When Vidipath (DLNA) is implemented, it requires a home network and all modern PCs will support game streaming over the home network including the PS4 and XB1. All platforms that support Video Chat have codec encoders and decoders and if powerful enough can support game streaming or sharing media.
I said the Connected home starts in 2014 and it would have except for the second TiVo suit. Microsoft Windows 10 is supposed to release in June 2015 with HEVC support. The FCC mandate is June 2015. A Xbox 360 Mini was supposed to release after Windows 10. If Windows 10 is free then it supports being the OS for many many PCs connected to TVs where services and apps are the source of revenue.
Or the PS3.5 or the Xbox361.
I tweaked your post to be more logical since some of it made no sense and missed out details etc
PC
1. Decide if I like the look of it / what is the quality of the port
2. Will it run on my hardware / peripherals setup
3. Check what 3rd party DRM/activation limits it has, if any.
4. Decide where to buy from. GOG, Steam, Uplay, Origin, and so on.
5. Buy it
6. Downlaod (On my connection, takes up to two days)
7. Play
Optional - Consult online resources if there is an issue
When I buy a console game:
1. Decide if I like the look of it / Investigate the quality of the port
2. Decide where to buy / retail stores / online retail store / digital
3. Buy it.
4. Install it / download it
5. Patch it (can be an extreme amount on PS3 - hello GT5)
6. Play it.
Optional - Discover the online modes have been removed because the game is "out of service"
No one is going to doubt that a console is often more convenient, but this clearly becomes muddier in recent years with online, patching and installing experiences, along with other issues varying over time.
While PCs are certainly getting more convenient, they definitely have a way to go yet. The nature of an open platform will always make the options for choice and devices as a more open ended question, and variation of hardware will likely always come with its positives and negatives. Transition of PCs to the lounge should help improve ui issues which do certainly remain a problem now and likely for all time with older titles that will not be changed.
Some people do love that stuff, I agree. But this is why it will always be an enthusiast platform.
Enthusiasts are the kind of people who love working on things to get them just right. But the mainstream gamer just wants to sit down at the end of the day and play some games, hasstle free. And PC gaming is just too fragmented to offer that simplicity.
The only thing that could kill consoles is streaming. But I can't see that happening in at least 15 years or more.
Yep, I totally agree. As long as you buy the console, you can play games on it for the next 5 years without worrying about upgrading
LiegeWaffle
Member
Well, there are so many things wrong with the OP. The biggest flaw is easily abundance of jargon that does not actually support any of author's argument. But there are more issues.
First:
Second, I do not see the GPU drivers being developed by third parties as OP claims, and I do not think that DRM has much to do with how open the drivers are.
Third, SteamOS shows just how implausible are OP's claims about Sony trying to move their ecosystem with a Linux-based platform on PC.
Fourth,
And finally, probably the most important flaw here: OP's assumption that the consoles exist for technical reasons, as opposed to marketing, convenience and ecosystem shepherding.
First:
Author-portrayed TPM dystopia does not have much relation to reality, those systems don't work that way and I am even scared to ask what is meant by "QOS" here.
Second, I do not see the GPU drivers being developed by third parties as OP claims, and I do not think that DRM has much to do with how open the drivers are.
Third, SteamOS shows just how implausible are OP's claims about Sony trying to move their ecosystem with a Linux-based platform on PC.
Fourth,
I am not sure what kind of problem are meant here, and I am even more confused about how OpenCL would solve any of them.
And finally, probably the most important flaw here: OP's assumption that the consoles exist for technical reasons, as opposed to marketing, convenience and ecosystem shepherding.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Well, Youtube supports 60fps now so I guess that's true.
It will happen one day.
The vision for all companys eventually is to control the ecosystem. One box tied to all screens in the house, that can also talk with portable devices.
At the moment a ps4 or x1 is a hassle free affordable way to get the latest games.
Though in the future a windows PC that is Xbox compatible and you can use your games in other windows devices without having to re purchase them, and having the ability to upgrade your box. This will make normal consoles seems quite pointless really.
I doubht this would happen, but what would happen if on Jan 21st ms announced all win 10 machines with the spec requirements can play x1 games?
The vision for all companys eventually is to control the ecosystem. One box tied to all screens in the house, that can also talk with portable devices.
At the moment a ps4 or x1 is a hassle free affordable way to get the latest games.
Though in the future a windows PC that is Xbox compatible and you can use your games in other windows devices without having to re purchase them, and having the ability to upgrade your box. This will make normal consoles seems quite pointless really.
I doubht this would happen, but what would happen if on Jan 21st ms announced all win 10 machines with the spec requirements can play x1 games?
Neue Regel
Banned
It's a shame there's still so much ignorance regarding PC gaming.
Does the OP want to address this post or does he just want to go on and on about power and specs?
Though this is also a bit hyperbolic, pretty much yes. The market for desktop gaming PCs largely shifted to Eastern Europe, Asia. But people there by and large are interested in different games.
Bjomesphat
Banned
I can't believe people are quoting this like it's at all true.
afternoon delight
Member
God I hope not, the majority of my favorite publishers are still Japanese and they're just now discovering the ability to release on the platform. Without consoles, I fear for their safety/competence in adapting.
Can Crusher
Banned
Local hardware will eventually be replaced by Cloud services. You will be renting everything and not owning shit.
Pc and consoles all dead.
Pc and consoles all dead.
lolwhut?
Arguably no one owns anything now. Console games receive and often require patching and have online services that can simply become inaccessible over time whenever the devs/pubs/platform holder decide the games has reached the end of service.
All that matters now is how much faith and trust you have on your platform and the devs/pubs of each game
TV are built to be outdated in 5-10 years time anyway, whether because of immaturity of the LCD or simply due to purposefully built in obsolescence. When my Philips died after only six years I bought a Smart TV and ever since I've been hitting myself for the head I haven't done so sooner. Can't help but laugh when MS puts youtube behind Live Gold or I see people discussing which console is best for Netflix. TVs already take care of all that guys. I can totally see streaming become so good that most people can play one console generation older games easily on smart TVs.
ReBurn
Gold Member
I'll believe in this before I believe in one platform to rule them all.