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[BronsonLee]

What an odd turn of events.

EVERYBODY BE SNEAKIN

 

[EightBitNate]

Man, look at this pre-release MP screenshot:

The game doesn't look even CLOSE to that level of clarity. It makes me mad now knowing that the resolution is so low.
.

Yeah but to be fair SP DOES look this good.

 

[DoomGyver]

This is disappointing, especially considering the amount of frame drops I've experienced in multiplayer.

Is that why some stairs are shaped like crescents and not a straight line?

I always thought that was odd, too.

 

[SniperHunter]

btw this game was "downgraded" big time after the initial showing. That initial demo didn't run at 60 FPS, but it looked a lot better. I think GG made the wrong call with 60 FPS and at the end it didn't mater because the frame rate fluctuates too much and it failed to attract the CoD crowd

 

[iceatcs]

Disappointing GG and/or Sony was not just honest about this right up front.

I would imagine this is going to forever cast doubt on any technical claims they make in the future, which is a shame as they are damn good developers at the end of the day.

I think they clearly felt the pressure of being "the graphical title" for the PS4, especially since they were the "chosen ones" at launch.

Shame really as this is no doubt going to tarnish their reputation some I would imagine.

Quite easy to resolve the reputation, just be honest with your render engine. Then you will be fine in next time.

What GG need to fix, is don't let the mass market on their shoulders. No need everything MP like COD.

 

[VanWinkle]

Yeah but to be fair SP DOES look this good.

Yup.

 

[PBY]

Yup.

Because it runs at half the framerate.

But I agree it looks dope.

 

[whitehawk]

So for months people have been playing at a supposed unacceptable resolution without an issue. LOL! ....never change neogaf!

It depends how you look at it.

I believe if your standing still, it will look exactly the same as native 1080p. Problem we have is that it uses interlacing to get there, so the game doesn't look as good in motion.

 

[coolasj19]

Everyone will probably shut up once we see their new IP. GG just needed more time.

I don't know what they're going to be skeptical about before any of their new games come out.
"Yeah, but is it really 60 fps? Maybe it's only 60 fps when you're standing still and 30 while your moving !!"
Technical doubt is dispelled upon game release. Or like now. Where it's half the resolution when your moving and full when you're standing still.

This whole situation is just weird.

 

[HTupolev]

makes you wonder if this method has been implemented in other games

Stuff like it has been used in other games. Temporal sampling has been used in Ryse, KZSF's single-player, and even a few last-gen games like Halo: Reach, for cheap "supersampling."

I've never heard of a final game build using temporal sampling to bring the game up to the baseline pixel count, though. (It's not a method that popped out of nowhere, though, it's similar to how 480i60 sixth-gen games work.)

 

[FLAguy954]

Compressed Facebook images so they're not too helpful but I had them handy

Campaign:

Multiplayer:

Goddamn, interlacing in 2013/14... Never though I'd see the day lol

 

[Friction]

The reason that pixel counters could have a hard time catching this is that the game uses temporal reprojection. The previous "960x1080" field is reprojected based on motion buffers and used in the next frame (alongside the current 960x1080 field), so in static imagery, you actually DO get a full 1920x1080 image. It's not "upscaled."

It just gets a bit flaky when the game is in motion. It's not going to look quite as clean as raw 1920x1080 renders, and of course things that don't get tracked nicely by the motion buffer (like small particles) and going to look like they've been shoved through an interlaced CRT.

Sort of a clever solution, and it arguably looks significantly cleaner most of the time than 720p-ballpark content, but I wouldn't personally call it "native 1080p."

I'm no expert, so just honestly wondering. Was the 960x1080 and temporal reprojection chosen because it was the best choice for GG performance wise at the time or was it chosen because it was difficult to discern from native 1080p which they promised?

 

[whitehawk]

Because it runs at half the framerate.

But I agree it looks dope.

Well, 40fps most of the time.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

.

Thanks

Man, look at this pre-release MP screenshot:

The game doesn't look even CLOSE to that level of clarity. It makes me mad now knowing that the resolution is so low.



No, but if you haven't noticed the multitudes of people that have talked about KZ's MP blurriness all the time, you must not have cared about this issue until something controversial like this has been brought up.

I didnt and your right I dont care about the issue of the game itself. Its more of nobody knew what the resolution was of the game until now. Do you know how many games were dogged about resolutions that people knew because it was confirmed yet this went unoticed? People thought this game was 1080p so much because of what developers said that even when some people grew suspicious they couldnt pinpoint it. It couldnt possibly be the resolution.

 

[maneil99]

btw this game was "downgraded" big time after the initial showing. That initial demo didn't run at 60 FPS, but it looked a lot better. I think GG made the wrong call with 60 FPS and at the end it didn't mater because the frame rate fluctuates too much and it failed to attract the CoD crowd

Thats a load of bullshit, the SP looks exactly the same as the Initial reveal

 

[jacksepticeye]

or the initial releases were bullshots.

Isnt everything these days?

 

[open_mouth_]

Surprise... Microsoft aren't the only lying sacks of potatoes. Reality shattered.

 

[artist]

Havent played SF MP but super disappointing if true.

Also the usual suspects propping up "fun value" in a technical thread once again..

 

[Mass Effect]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=95150260&postcount=4844

taken with an avermedia extremecap u3

Those last two shots are awful. Interlacing and artifacts everywhere.

 

[EatChildren]

Was there some threads about the multiplayer looking off I missed?

No?

 

[Derpcrawler]

I was thinking the same thing. I mean, just go tag fishing if you wanna do that.

What is tag fishing?

 

[BadAss2961]

So now we have to shit on Killzone's multiplayer?

Shit still looks cray.

 

[RoboPlato]

Because it runs at half the framerate.

But I agree it looks dope.

It's really only about a 10-15fps difference between the two.

btw this game was "downgraded" big time after the initial showing. That initial demo didn't run at 60 FPS, but it looked a lot better. I think GG made the wrong call with 60 FPS and at the end it didn't mater because the frame rate fluctuates too much and it failed to attract the CoD crowd

Lighting, AA, and character models were all improved from the February showing. The color of the lighting in the scene changed so you may not have liked it as much subjectively but on a tech level it improved.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

btw this game was "downgraded" big time after the initial showing. That initial demo didn't run at 60 FPS, but it looked a lot better. I think GG made the wrong call with 60 FPS and at the end it didn't mater because the frame rate fluctuates too much and it failed to attract the CoD crowd

Absolutely. I think they tried to make the whole thing a proof of concept for all visual elements on the PS4 rather than just making the game the best it could be. There will be games that hit 1080p and 60fps, but Killzone didn't need to be one of them, not at launch.

 

[TheLight]

Just reminds me that the 1080p/30fps and 720p/60fps compromise for consoles is never going anywhere. Consoles can never be PCs.

Considering we call 1080p that is because it is usually based off the second part of a full resolution for example: 1920x1080p. MPs resolution ends with 1080p so it kind of gets by on a technicality.

 

[Glorified G]

Did they patch this in post-launch to stabilise the frame rate in multi or something?

Either way, the longer this gen goes on, all this proves is that more people need to get gaming PC's if your going to be so obsessed with pixel counting down to the n'th degree like this.

I agree. Pixel counting on console exclusive titles with a gaming PC is probably smarter

 

[sangreal]

Those last two shots are awful. Interlacing and artifacts everywhere.

to be fair, I was trying to make a point when I originally posted them because I was wondering why the other screenshots in the thread looked so much better and I thought it may have been a capture issue

 

[Chobel]

Wait! I have seen it before. Many other games, like hundred of them in last gen most on 360 I played.

Maybe it was never full 1280x720 last gen. It could be lot of miscount pixel counts. I suspect there are many 640x720 last gen games

Do you remember some of those games?

 

[HTupolev]

I'm no expert, so just honestly wondering. Was the 960x1080 and temporal reprojection chosen because it was the best choice for GG performance wise at the time or was it chosen because it was difficult to discern from native 1080p which they promised?

Those two considerations are not mutually exclusive.

 

[VanWinkle]

Just reminds me that the 1080p/30fps and 720p/60fps compromise for consoles is never going anywhere. Consoles can never be PCs.

Considering we call 1080p that is because it is usually based off the second part of a full resolution for example: 1920x1080p. MPs resolution ends with 1080p so it kind of gets by on a technicality.

Possibly, but I have a feeling that it was more that the game was designed for 1080p 30fps until devs were pressured late into the game to make it 60fps, creating this situation with the lower resolution.

 

[Kuro]

I think you've done enough Sony defending for one day

uh what? I'm just saying GG's new IP will probably look great considering what they pulled off on the PS3 when they didn't have to scramble to get a launch game out. What does this have to do with "Sony defending". I think you need to calm down.

 

[GhostWriter24]

60fps is 60fps, yo.

 

[TheRealTalker]

So now we have to shit on Killzone's multiplayer?

Shit still looks cray.

cray?

I need to get with the times and pop culture it seems :/

such odd words these whippersnappers say these days

 

[chubigans]

Do you remember some of those games?

Call of Duty Black Ops, Wipeout HD and Gran Turismo 5 used this form of resolution.

edit: Black Ops 2, not 1.

 

[JLeack]

This meant we didn't have to deal with another sub-30 FPS Killzone multiplayer. I support it fully.

 

[TUROK]

Where are all the people who COULD TELL the difference between resolutions now?

 

[RoboPlato]

Call of Duty Black Ops, Wipeout HD and Gran Turismo 5.

Black Ops was like 960x540 or some shit.

 

[Warewolf]

Wow, all those people complaining about the MP visuals. Vindicated I guess? Still looks bloody brilliant. Also where the hell are the rest of those height pixels going?

 

[jacksepticeye]

60fps is 60fps, yo.

Except the MP dips all over the place at times and barely ever hits a constant 60. Though close

 

[darkwing]

so BF4 with dynamic environments and 64 players run better than this?

lol

 

[chubigans]

Black Ops was like 960x540 or some shit.

Whoops, I meant Black Ops 2.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

 

[iceatcs]

Do you remember some of those games?

I was exploring on my game list. I think I remember see them in GTA4 and SR2 most.

 

[Chobel]

Call of Duty Black Ops, Wipeout HD and Gran Turismo 5 used this form of resolution.

I meant the games that had the kind of weird pixel looking just like Shadowfall MP (interlacing pixels).

I was exploring on my game list. I think I remember see them in GTA4 and SR2 most.

Thanks, I'll try looking for screenshots.

 

[TheLight]

cray?

I need to get with the times and pop culture it seems :/

such odd words these whippersnappers say these days

Based on cray fish. Crays are known for their graphical fidelity.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

Is this why nobody plays this game?

 

[RoboPlato]

so BF4 with dynamic environments and 64 players run better than this?

lol

BF4 was also an insane rush job. I think the game could have been significantly more impressive if they had more time.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

And what happened then? Well, in GAFville they say that the fanboy's small dick grew THREE sizes that day. And then the true meaning of Console Wars came through, and the fanboy found the strength of ten fanboys plus two!

better than any gif!

 

[VanWinkle]

Where are all the people who COULD TELL the difference between resolutions now?

So...you just decided to not read the thread, eh? Heck, you could have got the response in the first page. People COULD notice a difference in clarity between KZ MP and most 1080p (including KZ SP). But because we were told by a developer we thought we could trust that it's native 1080p, and the AA implementations were different between MP and SP, we assumed that noticeable difference must be the result of a horrible AA implementation.

 

[Loudninja]

Possibly, but I have a feeling that it was more that the game was designed for 1080p 30fps until devs were pressured late into the game to make it 60fps, creating this situation with the lower resolution.

I like to see what GG does next.

 

[pompidu]

No. They said it was native 1080p. If they wouldn't have used the word native, then you could make the argument that it does output in 1080p, but the game isn't rendered to that resolution internally. However, Sony/GG's statement that it's native 1080p is quite plainly complete bullshit.

No idea if sony quoted 1080p or 1080p native as i dont have the information in front of me.if its yhe later, then yes. full of shit i agree.

Stuff like it has been used in other games. Temporal sampling has been used in Ryse, KZSF's single-player, and even a few last-gen games like Halo: Reach, for cheap "supersampling."

I've never heard of a final game build using temporal sampling to bring the game up to the baseline pixel count, though. (It's not a method that popped out of nowhere, though, it's similar to how 480i60 sixth-gen games work.)

there a net gain on IQ going their route as opposed to dropping down resolution to 720p or another resolution? does the mp look bad? i havent played the game yet.