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[Andeeeh]

Probably not going to pick this up so early, going to wait for the PC version, and even then I reckon is going to look shit. Will wait for a steam sale or something.

I showed some friends who aren't really into gaming but loved Dark Souls, and they were quite disappointed that FROM downgraded the graphics so much.

 

[Poimandres]

Not my point at all, but you probably got that.

Yeah, I'm just having some fun... in a topic that is gravely serious, unfortunately. I do agree about Dragons Dogma not being a good example of a PS3/360 showcase! Another game desperately crying for a PC port. At least we bloody well get one with Dark Souls.

 

[Griss]

if Dark and Demons were truly some of your FAVORITE GAMES OF ALL TIMES, you wouldn't 'boycott' the sequel because of some lighting change. The game is fucking amazing, I already played 17 hours today. Don't be a dope, it's still better than pretty much every other game out there even with poop lighting.

Demon's Souls is my game of the generation, Dark Souls not far behind. I legit cancelled my pre-order over this. I'm patient, I can wait to see how this situation unfolds. I'm doing the exact same with GTA V having seen its framerate, even though I had a massive urge to buy it day 1. Still holding out there, and I'll hold out here until we get a version with the promised lighting.

 

[Stone Ocean]

if Dark and Demons were truly some of your FAVORITE GAMES OF ALL TIMES, you wouldn't 'boycott' the sequel because of some lighting change. The game is fucking amazing, I already played 17 hours today. Don't be a dope, it's still better than pretty much every other game out there even with poop lighting.

As much as I wouldn't cancel my pre order over this, you really should respect people not willing to bend over and backwards to get a good game.

This situation is scummy, period, regardless of how good the game is in the end, and some people have every right to not want to deal with it.

 

[Durante]

Here's another shot of the fire from the video I did, if anyone wants it.

Compare that to this:

That's the first component that makes me say "Holy Crap".

 

[Brerlappin]

At first this whole debacle didnt really bother me at all, until i saw that video by hyperbithero. My god that is just shocking. I cant believe it looks so poor, honestly, if the PC version (which i was waiting for) is gimped like that too, i may skip this altogether.

 

[robin2]

That dragon mansion comparison.. ugh.

 

[Garcia]

Really seems like something more happened here. I wonder what's going on?

I keep playing and I'm beginning to doubt they even used the original assets and poly counts from the beginning of the retail version. [Edit: As some have accurately mentioned in the next page, they did re-use some textures]. I don't understand how could they suddenly ditch such a high percentage of substance and quality in the whole game, just like that.

We will probably never hear an official statement but we have to show this to as many people as possible so they don't double dip.

This is a shoddy practice and the downgrade is pretty much outrageous. Seriously, the game is worse looking than original Dark Souls as a whole.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Yeah I'm out. I'll pick up the PC version in the hopes we get what we were supposed to, but this whole fiasco will hold the game forever far below Demon's Souls and Dark Souls because of the brutal carving knife thats been taken to artists original intention.

Good thing Miyazaki wasn't lead on this since his rep gets to continue on unblemished.

Big thanks to everyone taking pictures and videos and showing the stark contrast between what feels like a version intended for a whole other generation. This goes beyond even the Halo 2 E3 smoke and mirrors situation because I actually PLAYED a version with the original lighting on my HOME CONSOLE. Thats how mad this is.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Dark Souls 2 also runs at around 22 frames per second... just sayin. They did their best to make us expect better, From has nobody to blame but themselves.

I was just going to say this. I watched the launch trailer and the game was running at a pitiful frame rate. It may not look that pretty, but it should still be fun though, right?

 

[KarmaCow]

Here's another shot of the fire from the video I did, if anyone wants it.

Compare that to this:

Yikes at those textures that texture.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Sure that isn't a PS2 version? wtf

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Maybe they downgraded it so when they release it on the PS4 and Xbox One the graphical difference will be that much starker. And people will be like holy shit I gotta buy this game! Look at how powerful my Xbox One/PS4 is!!

 

[JaseC]

That's the first component that makes me say "Holy Crap".

The texture repetition in the top image is something you'd expect to see in an open-world game if you were looking at the ground from a thousand meters above.

 

[Garcia]

Seems pretty weird that the downgrade is so significant for consoles. Did they really go to the trouble of making a better looking build only to downgrade? Or were the showings at TGS etc really on PC as opposed to consoles, and they just lied about it? Either way the game itself seems great and like more Dark Souls, but I do hope the PC version keeps that gorgeous lighting we've previously seen.

Chances are they weren't even working on a PC version that resembles the Demo quality. For all we know we may have been completely misled from the beginning.

 

[cascardian]

That's the first component that makes me say "Holy Crap".

Welcome back to PS2-gen-and-before tiled texturing of lava.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I keep playing and I'm beginning to doubt they even used the original assets and poly counts from the beginning of the retail version.

Well uhh

The texture on the ground and on that pillar is the same, at least!

 

[dosh]

Here's another shot of the fire from the video I did, if anyone wants it.

Compare that to this:

When I first started reading this thread, I thought From only dropped the dynamic lighting but then... different textures, and even different models in some instances?

Is it weird that I'm now more eager to see how this whole thing is going to develop than to actually play the game?

 

[JaseC]

When I first starting reading this thread, I thought From only dropped the dynamic lighting but then... different textures, and even different models in some instances?

Is it weird that I'm now more eager to see how this whole thing is going to develop than to actually play the game?

The Final Hours of Dark Souls 2:

CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
...

I can't wait for the coffee table version.

 

[Garcia]

Well uhh

The texture on the ground and on that pillar is the same, at least!

LOL, yeah, at least they were cynical enough to leave "some" textures intact as a painful reminder of the wasted potential in this game, .

Maybe they downgraded it so when they release it on the PS4 and Xbox One the graphical difference will be that much starker. And people will be like holy shit I gotta buy this game! Look at how powerful my Xbox One/PS4 is!!

If what you're saying is true then why didn't they mention their plans from the get go? Why fool everyone by letting them put their hands on a playable demo (allegedly running on native hardware) that doesn't resemble the quality of the final build?

This isn't acceptable. If they were planning to make 3 different versions of the game, say it so. But guess what? That wouldn't land them as many sales as they probably are doing right now.

 

[Eusis]

While the changed textures/geometry/effects/active creatures is a different story, I do wonder if the torch mechanic being grossly nerfed was a result of not really getting it right? Either the way things were set up were TOO unforgiving (though I can think of a million and one ways to address that that they didn't take, IE either removing the time limit or making torches really easy to buy) or they felt the light couldn't reach far enough without compromising the game so they abandoned going as far as they wanted? I'd rather they erred on the side of playability, but it does make me wonder.

 

[dosh]

The Final Hours of Dark Souls 2:

CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
CTRL-Z
...

"Did one of you guys, like, press ctrl+s at some point in the past six months? Someone? Anyone? Ho well."

 

[dark10x]

Well uhh

The texture on the ground and on that pillar is the same, at least!

The wall texture is the same as well.

 

[Garcia]

The Final Hours of Dark Souls 2:

I can't wait for the coffee table version.

 

[Durante]

The wall texture is the same as well.

That particular screenshot is almost completely equivalent, except for the lighting and lack of SSAO.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Maybe their studio burned down mid-development and the only thing they were able to rescue was the basic geometry and they had to finish the rest of the game in 2 months.

More seriously, this looks like maybe a few vertical slice areas were given a ton of resources and care, then they realized the game was too big to make everything at that quality and they brought it all down to extremely mediocre levels.

I haven't read any reviews thoroughly; is the game much bigger than previous Souls games?

Or maybe someone in charge just said "this is too colorful for a Souls game, make it terrible instead."

 

[Gbraga]

I don't think the more drastic downgrades will come back for the PC version, but it is very possible to just make dark places actually dark and light those damn wall torches again, isn't it?

It would already make a ton of difference.

As I said before, personally I think a couple of torch dungeons would be better than a torch game, but looking at the torch mechanics and the fact that it even has a dedicated slot in your equipment, it's clearly meant to be much more than a skull lantern that may run out, and I want to see how that game plays like.

 

[Soriku]

Maybe their studio burned down mid-development and the only thing they were able to rescue was the basic geometry and they had to finish the rest of the game in 2 months.

More seriously, this looks like maybe a few vertical slice areas were given a ton of resources and care, then they realized the game was too big to make everything at that quality and they brought it all down to extremely mediocre levels.

I haven't read any reviews thoroughly; is the game much bigger than previous Souls games?

But why keep showing the old build till up to 1-2 months ago? :/ The beta was released fine too.

I don't even know why they can't keep dark areas actually dark like ToG. Would it really be that hard?

Also it is bigger from what people are saying. I can't tell if the game was too big for them to handle or what.

 

[Servbot24]

Maybe they downgraded it so when they release it on the PS4 and Xbox One the graphical difference will be that much starker. And people will be like holy shit I gotta buy this game! Look at how powerful my Xbox One/PS4 is!!

Even though this would be extremely shitty of them, I really do hope we get next gen versions. I'll gladly double dip if the graphical upgrade is worth it (would have to be a bit better than the beta version of the game).

 

[Stone Ocean]

The game is bigger content-wise, but scale-wise most areas are more or less the same.

They worked years on this game and as far as we know the game was a lot closer to that 2 months ago. I don't believe they only realized the game ran like shit after the beta, no way in hell.

 

[Zomba13]

If FROM did do the whole game with the better lighting and the torch mechanic etc in place and had to cut it for the consoles it'd be nice if they include that stuff as an option for the PC. If it's an option then the base game can look like the consoles with better fps and resolution but then we also get the option to play it with the torches and better lighting etc.

Most likely not though. Most likely it'll just be the same as the consoles.

 

[Candescence]

But why keep showing the old build till up to 1-2 months ago? :/ The beta was released fine too.

Probably Bamco using the old build. Or, as I mentioned earlier, it could easily have been a last-minute rush-job, it sure as hell looks like one.

I don't even know why they can't keep dark areas actually dark like ToG. Would it really be that hard?

Honestly, I'd prefer it if they didn't make most of the game dark like ToG. ToG was a pain in the ass to navigate even with the lantern, I consider it the worst area in the game for that alone, the darkness made shit tedious more than anything.

 

[Durante]

They worked years on this game and as far as we know the game was a lot closer to that 2 months ago. I don't believe they only realized the game ran like shit after the beta, no way in hell.

So what do you think happened? Everything seen before just vertical slices?

 

[Stone Ocean]

So what do you think happened? Everything seen before just vertical slices?

I find it easier to believe they had cut the graphics before the beta but kept pushing the old build at some Namdai's exec call, but then I'd have to expect actual malice.

It's just a bizarre situation, I can't imagine many scenarios without having actual insight on the development. The way the game looks it's obvious that whenever and however it happened it was extremely rushed with little regard on how the final product would look.

 

[Polioliolio]

Amazing that an advanced lighting engine vs shitty flat lighting can create this much of a difference. That is pretty much a generational jump (back) I dare say, makes the final version look like a bug/WIP without the correctlighting implemented.

Man, if the PC version also looks like shit like the console retail... there will be riots. I'm confident my rig could easily handle the quality shown in the reveals. Here's hoping the good lighting is still in there and they only branched the console builds to hit playable framerates.

OUCH! These comparisons are brutal!

I got banned for echoing my sentiments about the downgrades.. Glad it picked up in here.
If there's not a gaming news story about this I'd be stunned..

Substantial downgrades despite the game appearing to run just fine in the previous form.
I'll take sub 30fps for the old lightning system, if that's what it was about.

 

[cascardian]

"Did one of you guys, like, press ctrl+s at some point in the past six months? Someone? Anyone? Ho well."

First engine dev team meeting: "Okay, geniuses, so Blighttown was a disgrace. Let's build a completely new engine so that kind of thing never happens again."

Team meeting in October: "Uh oh. So, uh, even our latest release-mode PGO build runs at like 10 FPS. Let's start stripping assets to meet the damn RAM budget, but leave in the obvious thing, the lighting, until the last trailer is made. Why? So people don't notice and rip our heads off, of course. The PC build? What do you mean we're still using CVS and it screwed up the commit history, accidentally and irrecoverably merging it with most of our Xbox 360 code? Damn, we'll need another month after release to fix that. By the way, fire the admin responsible for the daily backups. They don't work either."

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

But why keep showing the old build till up to 1-2 months ago? :/ The beta was released fine too.

I don't even know why they can't keep dark areas actually dark like ToG. Would it really be that hard?

Also it is bigger from what people are saying. I can't tell if the game was too big for them to handle or what.

That's a good point. I have no idea.

They also cut all the particle effects which looked cool and were heavily featured in a very recent trailer. I just can't understand the thought process/incompetence of this dev team and or publisher.

edit: I shouldn't say "all" particle effects because I haven't seen any magic yet, but the melee sparks and stuff are gone.

 

[Future PhaZe]

have we ever seen anything like this before?

we've seen downgrades but most devs tend to release gameplay videos beforehand showing a steady downgrade ala watchdogs

to simply release a game and have it be completely different visually than what we've seen is...unprecedented in my experience

this is really boycott worthy imo

 

[pa22word]

But why keep showing the old build till up to 1-2 months ago? :/

Marketing.

So what do you think happened? Everything seen before just vertical slices?

There was likely more than a few areas that wouldn't run acceptably at all with the lighting system, and they hoped as optimization progressed they'd be able to get it "acceptable", but as the release date neared they realized it just wasn't going to happen and they cut it. My guess is this was pretty late in development too, because the torch system is still heavily featured in the game despite being completely useless for the most part.

 

[Raven77]

So is there really no official word from NAMCO or FROM on this?

I have never seen such a drastic change in a games appearance before.

 

[Kamina]

So is there really no official word from NAMCO or FROM on this?

I have never seen such a drastic change in a games appearance before.

I was about to ask the same. This uproar cries for an official statement.

 

[jett]

But why keep showing the old build till up to 1-2 months ago? :/

This is why this is honestly more egregious than the Watch Dogs thing.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Dont be surprised if marketing department wanted to keep some visual candy for the inevitable PS4/XBONE versions (and keeping performances within acceptable level too)

PC might be lucky enough to keep visuals.

Still, its a very good looking game already.

 

[Gbraga]

There was likely more than a few areas that wouldn't run acceptably at all with the lighting system, and they hoped as optimization progressed they'd be able to get it "acceptable", but as the release date neared they realized it just wasn't going to happen and they cut it. My guess is this was pretty late in development too, because the torch system is still heavily featured in the game despite being completely useless for the most part.

That's what I believe as well, and it also works as yet another evidence that the PC version was really the lead, despite coming later, they desgined the whole game around the systems they made with the PC versions, and only later when porting they realized it wouldn't work on consoles, so they had to cut it all. It may sound amateurish, but this comes from the same guys who couldn't make Dark Souls run at higher framerates or resolutions on PC, after all.

We can only hope we'll still get their original vision on PC.

 

[bronzodiriace]

Chances are they weren't even working on a PC version that resembles the Demo quality. For all we know we may have been completely misled from the beginning.

I think that the explanation is simple.


The demo showed during E3 was developed on PC, but the real develop was on ps3/x360 and the pc versions is based on the console version with the possibility to turn up resolution, anisotropic, anti aliasing and pheraps the texture.

Basically the demo stations show some graphics with nice lightning to attract the attention of core fans and the others They developed single demo bounded to the showfloor.

An unfair prank.

 

[Violater]

This is why this is honestly more egregious than the Watch Dogs thing.

It hurts more because we all wanted this to be good, it was the last glimmer of hope for this sinking cespool of an industry.

Spoiler

yea much hyperbole but not far from the truth

 

[pottuvoi]

The wall texture is the same as well.

I'm pretty sure that most artwork is same.
Sadly increasing brightness of a bland ambient term and reducing direct light is not a best way to show art.

 

[pa22word]

That's what I believe as well, and it also works as yet another evidence that the PC version was really the lead, despite coming later, they desgined the whole game around the systems they made with the PC versions, and only later when porting they realized it wouldn't work on consoles, so they had to cut it all. It may sound amateurish, but this comes from the same guys who couldn't make Dark Souls run at higher framerates or resolutions on PC, after all.


We can only hope we'll still get their original vision on PC. .

EDIT: Here's some shots from both the GMG page and Steam store page featuring the lighting system:

GMG:

Steam:

One thing worth mentioning (and yes I know it's not the best of indications) is that the PC version's steam store and GMG page has screenshots of the game with the dynamic real time lighting system and all the other bells and whistles too. What's more interesting is that the screen shots are actually different per store and not just regurgitated press release shots. So personally I think there's still hope that the PC version will indeed ship feature complete.

I think that the explanation is simple.


The demo showed during E3 was developed on PC, but the real develop was on ps3/x360 and the pc versions is based on the console version with the possibility to turn up resolution, anisotropic, anti aliasing and pheraps the texture.

Basically the demo stations show some graphics with nice lightning to attract the attention of core fans and the others They developed single demo bounded to the showfloor.

An unfair prank.

I highly doubt that considering how heavily featured the torch mechanic still is in the final version uh, despite being useless >.>

 

[Vitor711]

So what do you think happened? Everything seen before just vertical slices?

I think this is the most likely explanation. Everything we've seen was just a large vertical slice. Considering the staggering amount of content in most Souls games, I wouldn't be surprised that their vertical slices end up being several areas compared to most other games' single level.

It's likely the Halo 2 situation all over again. Overly ambitious with the tech and find themselves having to redesign entire sections as they get closer to release once they realise that the game just isn't running up to standard.

 

[EvaristeG]

Footage has to come from somewhere. Gotta be the PC version.