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[NEO0MJ]

I've been on media blackout for this game but seeing this downgrade is pretty disheartening. I'm waiting for the PC version, so I hope some of the missing details show up in that version, instead of a simple higher res/frame rate port.

Holy shit you guys actually think they are going to add new textures, new geometry, a new lighting system and a different colour palette for the PC version and these imaginary next gen versions. Lol. This is FROM and Namco we're talking about.

I think there's a good chance for a future PS4/X1 "definitive" version after the DLC chapter arrives(personally I think there's a good chance for that to happen, even if in DS1 the only reason Artorias was made because they had cut content to build on). Thing is we don't know how far into the game they were before downgrading things, or how willing they are to improve them in the future.

 

[Vitor711]

Well, last I read was this on Digital Foundry



Sorry, I saw Ps4 and Xbox One have same performance (Parity...LOL ), game stutters and repeats frames at 30 FPS...so I put it in the no buy pile...Looks like they put no effort into the Ps4 version...

If pubs want me to buy their game for £ 55 in UK on Ps4 I need to see that they have put every effort and consideration into the version that I am buying (Ps4). I never buy a game before a DF analysis....

If they cant be bothered to put effort into a game, then I cant be bothered to follow and buy it......

If they did fix it, then Pubs should give DF a new interview and analysis showing how superbly it now runs on Ps4 and how the new added effects / AF or whatever they added enhances the experience ..

Well you can find NFS Rivals for a lot less than £55 now and the Frame Pacing has been resolved. Not that it was a huge issue to begin with but the performance is butter smooth at the moment. Booted it up for the first time in weeks yesterday and it definitely looks better.

DF aren't going to revisit every article whenever patches are released, that's just unrealistic. That's what places like GAF are for - so you can hear from people first hand to see whether or not stuff has really been fixed (and not just claimed to have been so on a press release). NFS is totally worth a buy, especially if you like that sort of game. Even more so now it has been improved.

 

[Durante]

Holy shit you guys actually think they are going to add new textures, new geometry, a new lighting system and a different colour palette for the PC version and these imaginary next gen versions. Lol. This is FROM and Namco we're talking about.

I'm 99% certain that the PC version will have better textures, they promised that explicitly. As for new lighting, I could at the very least see better AO happening.

 

[StuBurns]

I wonder if/when a next-gen version appears, if the PC version will be patched to match any improved assets/lighting/effects.

 

[Messofanego]

Sorry if I'm late to this being answered already, but if they were designing the lighting and other graphical changes for next-gen, and if PC doesn't get these effects, then will that confirm that these have become next gen console exclusive features i.e. selling points?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Sorry if I'm late to this being answered already, but if they were designing the lighting and other graphical changes for next-gen, and if PC doesn't get these effects, then will that confirm that these have become next gen console exclusive features i.e. selling points?

More like it'll confirm those were bullshit and that game never existed.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Some of those areas dont even look the same to me. That is crazy

 

[Stet]

I wonder if/when a next-gen version appears, if the PC version will be patched to match any improved assets/lighting/effects.

It'll definitely be patched.

For sixty United States dollars.

 

[Y2Kev]

Honestly, I thought either Y2Kev made the topic or modded the title.

I remember the deal with the lightning affecting gameplay. I'm not gonna say I'm disappointed it's not there, I don't like the Souls games, but they deserve to get called out. They should know their fanbase is a percentage of hardcore fans.

Nope, not my adjustment. Though I would be interested in learning more about why they did it.

 

[jacksepticeye]

If the PC version is going to look like the bottom gif at 1080p and 60fps only then I am going to be pissed.
Inb4 they release a second PC Prepare to Buy the Definitive Edition later when they release the PS4/Xbone editions that looks like the first gif.

I'd hate to see FROM stoop to such a shameless money grubbing level

 

[njean777]

Well, last I read was this on Digital Foundry



Sorry, I saw Ps4 and Xbox One have same performance (Parity...LOL ), game stutters and repeats frames at 30 FPS...so I put it in the no buy pile...Looks like they put no effort into the Ps4 version...

If pubs want me to buy their game for £ 55 in UK on Ps4 I need to see that they have put every effort and consideration into the version that I am buying (Ps4). I never buy a game before a DF analysis....

If they cant be bothered to put effort into a game, then I cant be bothered to follow and buy it......

If they did fix it, then Pubs should give DF a new interview and analysis showing how superbly it now runs on Ps4 and how the new added effects / AF or whatever they added enhances the experience ..

Wow, if you really care about performance and graphics so much you are on the wrong platform. Buy a PC and call it a day. No reason for you to play on consoles if you cannot deal with compromises.

 

[mclem]

You are not understanding. They ADVERTISED features heavily in that 'demo'. As in, they enticed people to buy their product after saying "Hey, this feature is in the game and it is an important feature because x". They did that from reveal, all the way up until release. With those same features as selling points. Then said features were absent from the game.

Out of interest, would you have the same attitude to a stage demo which showed the most exciting/entertaining bits of a game, and then have it turn out that while the demo is accurate for that section, it's surrounded by hours and hours that don't live up to that sample? That's in no way uncommon, and I'd argue that it's a similar crime, albeit from a different direction.

My point being: You are taking a demo on trust that what you're seeing is representative of the majority of the final game, but in both cases that small sample is able to do things that the entire game cannot - yet, for some reason, *looking* different to the sample is a big crime, yet *playing* different to the sample is accepted?

(I'm aware DS2's changes have some gameplay implications too, true, but I'm not familiar enough with the impact of them to make a judgement call on that)

Hey, let's all just look forward to the shitstorm in half a year when they announce Dark Souls 2: Definitive Edition

I don't think it's very common hide footage of the final game until launch. Not when the final version looks so different when compared to earlier footage.

I've worked on games where we've ripped out graphical features in the last weeks because they were no longer viable.

That said, there do seem to be some quite blanket texture changes in the newer version. Wondering if it's a texture RAM thing going on.

 

[BearPawB]

I don't think this is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Not that I don't think there was a downgrade. There was. I just don't think it was anything nefarious. I think they decided that the shadows were distracting/off putting in motion, and that the darkness mechanics made the game too difficult (requiring more torch use than they wanted)

Geometry was altered for performance reasons.


That being said, I would like to hear it from them

 

[jacksepticeye]

I don't think this is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Not that I don't think there was a downgrade. There was. I just don't think it was anything nefarious. I think they decided that the shadows were distracting/off putting in motion, and that the darkness mechanics made the game too difficult (requiring more torch use than they wanted)

Geometry was altered for performance reasons.


That being said, I would like to hear it from them

Yeah I'd at least like to know the reason o

 

[mclem]

videogamer.com ran a story on this, and, well, it's possible Namco didn't even know:

When I was developing, the publisher did the submissions and some testing. If the game didn't go through Namco, that's highly odd.

 

[mclem]

Because it probably was? I mean, we are playing on consoles that will be 9 years old not long from now...

Nintendo moneyhatted the lighting engine for Wii U.

Unfortunately, due to not writing the contract correctly, they *only* moneyhatted the lighting engine. The game is still only on the other platforms.

 

[Arksy]

The lead platform for this game was PC right? I mean the PC could still look as good as the demo right?

 

[Venfayth]

It really bugs me that people are still comparing shots of the game (example: in the OP) where they're showcasing shots with the torch out in the trailer, but without a torch in the released game. The game looks completely different when you hold a torch.

I'm not saying it looks the same as the trailers, but you look like a fucking moron when you try to preach objectivity and the value of honesty but can't even take properly compare the game and the trailers.

 

[Durante]

The lead platform for this game was PC right?

That's what they said from the start, yes.

I mean the PC could still look as good as the demo right?

It's highly unlikely that all the areas in the game exist at the level of detail and quality shown in the pre-release demo areas.

It really bugs me that people are still comparing shots of the game (example: in the OP) where they're showcasing shots with the torch out in the trailer, but without a torch in the released game. The game looks completely different when you hold a torch.

I'm not saying it looks the same as the trailers, but you look like a fucking moron when you try to preach objectivity and the value of honesty but can't even take properly compare the game and the trailers.

This is true. The only useful comparison shots are those where both version feature a torch or both are torch-less.

 

[Freakinchair]

Yeah - pretty disappointed in the lighting... and some areas look really bad. But then again some areas look really really good. It's a mixed bag but the gameplay is amazing and I can't stop playing. I will probably double dip for the pc version depending on the changes there.

I would like an answer from From though.

 

[Havel]

It really bugs me that people are still comparing shots of the game (example: in the OP) where they're showcasing shots with the torch out in the trailer, but without a torch in the released game. The game looks completely different when you hold a torch.

I'm not saying it looks the same as the trailers, but you look like a fucking moron when you try to preach objectivity and the value of honesty but can't even take properly compare the game and the trailers.

The purpose of the gifs in the OP is to showcase that torches are no longer necessary to navigate. This was said to be a big gameplay element until release.

 

[zephervack]

It is, but it is linked to the original post.

Anyone has a Youtube Link of the Dragon Mansion in the retail version??

I would love to make some GIFs comparing them.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Playing more I've come to find darkness as a game mechanic is just wildly inconsistent now. Good example is that staircase in Cardinal Tower that's used in all the comparison shots:

Yeah, the stairs are now fully lit and ugly all the way to the bottom so it's not scary anymore. But in the corridor after that there's three sconces to light that will, upon return trips, make it much safer. They illuminate where some tough enemies are standing and some regular enemies patrol.

Or how a torch is still fully useful in a particular part of the wharf, while there's poor abandoned sconces elsewhere that serve no purpose. It's like, if only From had decided earlier they were going to turn off the shadows in the console versions, they could have adjusted things in certain locations. Or if the game was just a little more optimized so they didn't have to turn off so much.

 

[legacyzero]

I don't think this is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Not that I don't think there was a downgrade. There was. I just don't think it was anything nefarious. I think they decided that the shadows were distracting/off putting in motion, and that the darkness mechanics made the game too difficult (requiring more torch use than they wanted)

Geometry was altered for performance reasons.


That being said, I would like to hear it from them

I could see them pulling back on the shadows, but removing them almost completely?

 

[d0nd]

Dark Sole Mio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

games huh?

 

[Dhuie]

The people defending FROM right now are the same ones who were defending them when they released a disgrace of a PC port. Yes they make great games but that doesn't justify defending the inexcusable.

Wait wait didn't PC Gamers ask for the game to be ported ?

Wasn't there a petition demanding it...And if i remember they said it was their first PC port.


I think people should wait till the PC version is out before we ask FROM to commit seppuku.

 

[elhav]

try jumping

I lol'd

 

[legacyzero]

Wait wait didn't PC Gamers ask for the game to be ported ?

Wasn't there a petition demanding it...And if i remember they said it was their first PC port.


I think people should wait till the PC version is out before we ask FROM to commit seppuku.

Yeah, we asked for it. Yeah they gave it to us. And sure it's their first PC game. But they literally did as little as possible to get it to us. Locked framerate, 720 res.. It was terrible.

And considering it took Durante within an HOUR to fix it...

It was just lazy.

 

[Raven77]

Why do people keep saying "THEY HAD TO CUT THIS STUFF FOR PERFORMANCE REASONS."



People have PLAYED those better looking versions at trade shows. They have literally stood in front of a PS3 running the game and it ran just as good as the now gutted, awful looking version they released to retail.

This truly is a mystery, and an absolutely horrible showing of bad faith in FROM. Deception up until release day. Hell the Amazon DS 2 product still has the better looking screenshots. Blatant false advertising.

 

[Saganator]

I wouldn't be surprised if the old lighting model just didn't play test well. Perhaps it made certain areas too difficult, or people didn't like being forced to give up their shield.

 

[ittoryu]

This has been picked up by MCV as well: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/game...eged-dark-souls-ii-graphics-downgrade/0129619

Apologies if old!

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Why do people keep saying "THEY HAD TO CUT THIS STUFF FOR PERFORMANCE REASONS."



People have PLAYED those better looking versions at trade shows. They have literally stood in front of a PS3 running the game and it ran just as good as the now gutted, awful looking version they released to retail.

This truly is a mystery, and an absolutely horrible showing of bad faith in FROM. Deception up until release day. Hell the Amazon DS 2 product still has the better looking screenshots. Blatant false advertising.

Not to mention the game runs like a dog anyway.

 

[Sephzilla]

I wouldn't be surprised if the old lighting model just didn't play test well. Perhaps it made certain areas too difficult, or people didn't like being forced to give up their shield.

I'm thinking this might be at least some part of the reason. They might have realized people might not have liked an entire game revolving around the Tomb of the Giants mechanic.

 

[Venfayth]

nevermind

have fun with your twitter parade

 

[Havel]

This thread feels like a warzone at times. It's fine if you don't think this is worth it, but all we are looking for is an honest, truthful answer about why we were promised something until release day, and some clarification on the PC version.

From all the bullshit publishers (devs?) have been pulling recently (Aliens: Colonial Marines , Watch Dogs), I just figured it would be nice to get a proper answer, with no bullshit. But a proper answer is not "Things change in development", as those things were advertised and used as selling points until release day.

People think there is malicious intent here. There is not. Want that, take to the other thread.

 

[zephervack]

Ok, for people saying that the lightning is gone because they had to balance the torch.

Forget about the torch and explain this:

Reveal
1. Amazing Lightning
2. Atmospheric shadows/Lightning reflected on the ground/walls/characters etc
3. Torches on walls and other details throughout

Retail
1. All stuff on the reveal completely gone or reduced (worse blur, smoke effects)
2. Weird green/grey hue everywhere

Im missing tons of stuff in the comparisons too, they are completely different

 

[dan2026]

You guys are completely batshit crazy and have lot all concept of perspective.

Its some slightly reduced lighting effects in a videogame!

Get a grip guys!

 

[kvn]

Imho, the only relevant delict is not the result, but false advertising. Insultingly bold false advertising.

 

[zephervack]

You guys are completely batshit crazy and have lot all concept of perspective.

Its some slightly reduced lighting effects in a videogame!

Get a grip guys!

Slightly reduced, please say that again after seeing the GIFs right above your post, if you actually believe its a small change then so be it, opinions I guess, but be honest.

 

[iNvid02]

they just got rid of the black crush

#praisenamco

 

[XANDER CAGE]

You guys are completely batshit crazy and have lot all concept of perspective.

Its some slightly reduced lighting effects in a videogame!

Get a grip guys!

It's more that "slightly," and it actually leaves a whole mechanic kind of pointless.

 

[Marvel]

Ok, for people saying that the lightning is gone because they had to balance the torch.

Forget about the torch and explain this:

Oh my god...

 

[legacyzero]

Ok, for people saying that the lightning is gone because they had to balance the torch.

Forget about the torch and explain this:

Such a damn shame... It looked so amazing!

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

It's a Souls pun.


Doesn't the game run at 494p internal resolution and averages around ~23fps? I would think that coupled with the graphical downgrade results in the need for explanation.

Holy hell, that's the first I've heard this. Wow, that is awful.

 

[Sephzilla]

I swear it almost seems like they accidentally sent an older build out for going gold.

 

[Havel]

You guys are completely batshit crazy and have lot all concept of perspective.

Its some slightly reduced lighting effects in a videogame!

Get a grip guys!

Except the lighting directly affected a gameplay mechanic which was longer present at retail. But they continued to use it as a selling point until release day.

 

[dan2026]

Ok granted it looks worse.

But I bet any money it ran worse as well, that why they changed it.
They wouldn't dial it back just to fuck with you guys.

From Software are shit at optimising their games. And they always have been.
That is the answer to all of your questions. Why can't you just accept it?

I havent bought this game yet and if you guys really care as much as you say, you should buy it either.

 

[kick51]

#YOUREBORED

#NOBODYNOTICEDEXCEPTYOU

 

[DrROBschiz]

Wow, if you really care about performance and graphics so much you are on the wrong platform. Buy a PC and call it a day. No reason for you to play on consoles if you cannot deal with compromises.

Seriously guys

Accept that this is the price way pay to maintain performance on these old ass machines

Thankfully the PC Version and hopefully Next Gen versions should fare much much better

Either way the compromises havent stopped me from enjoying my playthrough of the game but I will gladly double dip for the PS4 version and grab the PC version when it inevitably goes on sale

 

[GetemMa]

Ok, for people saying that the lightning is gone because they had to balance the torch.

Forget about the torch and explain this:

Reveal
1. Amazing Lightning
2. Atmospheric shadows/Lightning reflected on the ground/walls/characters etc
3. Torches on walls and other details throughout

Retail
1. All stuff on the reveal completely gone or reduced (worse blur, smoke effects)
2. Weird green/grey hue everywhere

Im missing tons of stuff in the comparisons too, they are completely different

Easy. The reveal was running on a PC, which was one of the announced platforms.

The right is what consoles could handle.

The game could still look like the reveal...on PC....expecting that on 360 seems a little odd to me.