I think this is why there are so many torches in the game, these areas were meant to be lit by the user to actually see wtf is going on. Now that everything is nice and bright you don't need to.
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#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
I think this is why there are so many torches in the game, these areas were meant to be lit by the user to actually see wtf is going on. Now that everything is nice and bright you don't need to.
I'd like to see if the PC version will be different. I held off on the Console version, mainly because I wanted to play it on the same platform I played the first Dark Souls on.
Granted, I revisited Demon's last month- and it was still wonderful. I also don't expect to be amazed by the graphics in Souls games; it's always been about the gameplay, even with the woeful framerate drops in Blighttown or in different areas of Demon's.
I think the "YOU LIED" campaign also doesn't approach the issue in the right manner. What they presented in their demo leading up to the game, seems vastly different from what people are playing (I can't say anything outside of the GIFs, or strange YouTube compressed shots) but I also didn't expect the game to be visually very different from Demon's/Dark.
Granted, I revisited Demon's last month- and it was still wonderful. I also don't expect to be amazed by the graphics in Souls games; it's always been about the gameplay, even with the woeful framerate drops in Blighttown or in different areas of Demon's.
I think the "YOU LIED" campaign also doesn't approach the issue in the right manner. What they presented in their demo leading up to the game, seems vastly different from what people are playing (I can't say anything outside of the GIFs, or strange YouTube compressed shots) but I also didn't expect the game to be visually very different from Demon's/Dark.
MrCookiepants
Member
This game is pretty disappointing overall. Visuals and performance are the least of its problems. I can't remember the last time I bought a game and felt so unmotivated to play it.
It doesn't improve on the original in any way I can think of. It's just a clunkier, more boring version of something I played 2 years ago.
It doesn't improve on the original in any way I can think of. It's just a clunkier, more boring version of something I played 2 years ago.
Putting aside that #DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED have a negative connotation, it is very hard to convey a singular message on twitter en masse beyond displeasure. A bunch of people bearing down on namco's twitter talking about a downgrade only lets them know they've got a bunch of customers angry about graphics. That's it. Twitter doesn't lend itself to this type of debate. The reasoning behind things like this generally come to light over time. There need not be a concerted effort to figure out what happened behind the scenes, they'll either keep quiet in either case, or open up in either case.
Also, this is hardly the only game with a core passionate fanbase that has had something swapped around on them. There sure as hell isn't a twitter campaign every time there's a downgrade with little forewarning for them either.
Grinchy
Banned
Wow, it's the complete opposite for me. I can't really even think about anything other than this stupid game. I'm so damn hooked.
I'm still pissed about the downgrade, but it's an awesome game nonetheless.
Your expectations aside, they showed one thing (even down to the Beta) and delivered something vastly worse (in terms of the graphics).
They decided to keep the lie going even now, beyond the release. People just want to know what happened.
I'd like some examples of your last point.
And the Twitter campaign, as we've already seen, is to get momentum going behind their responses and answers. It's a simple push for some truth.
fastballspecial
Member
I didn't buy the game but this shit needs to STOP. Between this and Watch Dogs within a week of each other, it's pretty disgusting. I feel for you guys who bought the game thinking you were getting something else. It better get fixed.
Star Ocean 4:
If you want more examples, this thread is full of em:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780392&highlight=graphical+downgrade
I'd like to know what happened too. But what version were they showing? Was this running on PS3/360? I mean, even in the OT post, it's not confirmed what version they were running it on. And I don't mean to defend their massive visual downgrades or even some of the technical issues, but I didn't think that was running on a PS3/360. I could definitely be wrong.
I think if we're to attack a company with the product released, I'd like to confirm exactly what we've seen/ where it was running. If the PC version turns out to be just as flat, it'll be time for more questions.
It saddens me that such practice is not only viewed as OK but the correct thing to do.
Which is exactly how FROM played Dark Souls PC and they should have kept being honest over this issue.
Infinite_Daremo
Member
Probably not. Everyone just likes to have a good piss and moan.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
As a huge FROM and Souls fan, I'm not buying the game today at UK release because I'm not supporting this kind of shit and I'm pinning my hopes on the PC version having at least some elements of this fixed, be that the lighting or otherwise.
There are two totally different but inextricably linked reasons why people are pissed and one is yes it looks far less prettier (atmosphere has ALWAYS been important in Souls games) and the slapdash way they've just carved out the indoors lighting engine has sent the title back to PS2 lighting in some places. The second however is the total futz of the (once) core torch mechanic as a result. Tutorial areas that guide you through the supposed benefits of torch lighting, areas whose "break through" moments depend upon lighting a big room filling torch, and even a boss or two based around the concept of lighting the darkness have been turned into bizarre question marks as to what FROM were thinking.
To have been showing the 'good looking version' up to as late as the very end of January is dishonest promotion (and the rest of the promotion has been fucking terrible as well anyway, so all round F+ score there!) and its just not on. You don't keep fans and earn more trust with these sorts of shenanigans, and I'm really sad to see a franchise born from the good word of mouth Demon's receive fall afoul of some of the absolute worst AAA pre-release practices. Theres a better version of the game running on PS3's or PC's that seemingly won't ever see release in its entirety, and that is just incredibly bizarre isn't it?
There are two totally different but inextricably linked reasons why people are pissed and one is yes it looks far less prettier (atmosphere has ALWAYS been important in Souls games) and the slapdash way they've just carved out the indoors lighting engine has sent the title back to PS2 lighting in some places. The second however is the total futz of the (once) core torch mechanic as a result. Tutorial areas that guide you through the supposed benefits of torch lighting, areas whose "break through" moments depend upon lighting a big room filling torch, and even a boss or two based around the concept of lighting the darkness have been turned into bizarre question marks as to what FROM were thinking.
To have been showing the 'good looking version' up to as late as the very end of January is dishonest promotion (and the rest of the promotion has been fucking terrible as well anyway, so all round F+ score there!) and its just not on. You don't keep fans and earn more trust with these sorts of shenanigans, and I'm really sad to see a franchise born from the good word of mouth Demon's receive fall afoul of some of the absolute worst AAA pre-release practices. Theres a better version of the game running on PS3's or PC's that seemingly won't ever see release in its entirety, and that is just incredibly bizarre isn't it?
Infinite_Daremo
Member
Well are you not buying the game?
Yes, because of this.
Infinite_Daremo
Member
You'll cave. Based Durante Edition will release and you'll have it.
You're not accomplishing anything by doing this. FROM showed PC footage. Consoles couldn't handle it as it got closer so they downgraded for their core market. You really think a company will come out and admit that? The closest answer you will get is it was a design decision.
This kind of stuff always reminds me of this:
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Are you speaking out of your ass?
The demos were on consoles specifically PS3.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Does it remind you when Xbox One's DRM was totally removed before they'd even shipped one console? If not you should probably make more doctors appointments to get that memory checked out rather than more "ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING" thread shitting.
Companies are very precious of their PR campaigns at launch these days, and if this one were to get moving I'd see it as a very clear rolled up paper to their doggy noses on this sort of behaviour.
Infinite_Daremo
Member
Well then I am lol sorry.
I assumed footage was from official releases. Never got invited to the beta.
CountAntonius
Member
If the PC version is to this game what Durante edition is to Dark souls 1 I'll take it. Anything else is a bonus for me.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Beta footage as well as footage from expos where it was demoed on PS3.
Wow the first page of a 17 page group. Your point is proven
Infinite_Daremo
Member
Point still stands. You downgrade to this extent because of performance issues. The only other possible explanation is the Beta areas were much further on in development and to achieve parity with the rest of the game the former was downgraded. But that also doesn't explain the lighting removal... It is slightly confusing but my gut tells me its all performance related.
All the same I'd rather hear it from the organ grinder's own mouth not the monkey
-MD-
Member
To answer your question, no, but that's not the point.
exactly.
yet, there is something inside some people that drives them to try and create mobs championing their cause.
I think the game looks and runs fine. I'm very happy with DS2.
#notsupportingthis
Not bought? Don't know, but i'm very happy i waited.
If the PC version isn't fixing some of this shit, i'm getting it at a good discount, instead of day 1.
So i'd say it matters.
throwawayname
Member
If the PC version is going to look like the bottom gif at 1080p and 60fps only then I am going to be pissed.
Inb4 they release a second PC Prepare to Buy the Definitive Edition later when they release the PS4/Xbone editions that looks like the first gif.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Eh, I really disliked that "awesome lighting" from the moment I first saw it, it made the colors look oversaturated and really unnatural.
And everything was so damn yellow.
And everything was so damn yellow.
I'm sure I'm going to love DS2 as well. I'll probably play it for years. That's why I want a version with the beautiful lighting that was in every trailer, and that's why I want the torch gameplay that was so integral to the experience. I'm sure I'll like the game, and that's why I care about it.
Lalalandia
Member
The amount of cognitive dissonance in this thread is hilarious, "FROM soft demoed and showed something different from what they shipped but I like FROM soft....that's OK then it must have been PC/I don't care about gfx/etc" We can't hold EA/Ubisoft/Activision to one standard and people we like to another, either we want clear honest communication/PR or we don't.
I don't believe this downgrade has made DS2 a bad game but it has made it a different game from what was shown in videos and what was released as a playable beta (that was on PS3). The slim straw that manay are grasping tis that somehow FROM soft cut a significant mechanic from both PS3 and 360 but will reinstate it for PC. Notgonnahappen.com. The light/shadow mechanic is clearly gone but given that there were several interviews with the team talking this up it's removal should have warranted at least a launch trailer a few days out clearly showing its removal.
It's not about 'teh grafix' it's about wanting honest communication from games companies/publishers.
I don't believe this downgrade has made DS2 a bad game but it has made it a different game from what was shown in videos and what was released as a playable beta (that was on PS3). The slim straw that manay are grasping tis that somehow FROM soft cut a significant mechanic from both PS3 and 360 but will reinstate it for PC. Notgonnahappen.com. The light/shadow mechanic is clearly gone but given that there were several interviews with the team talking this up it's removal should have warranted at least a launch trailer a few days out clearly showing its removal.
It's not about 'teh grafix' it's about wanting honest communication from games companies/publishers.
That honesty actually got them a 'free pass' of sorts from me on the PC port of DkS. They straight up said they had never done a PC version, had no idea what they were doing and, on top of this, were developing with a hard time limit.
I expected it to be the mess it was and was just glad they chose to support the PC. To be fair, if Durante hadn't come in and fixed the res (the one graphics option you can't not have), then I likely would be feeling a little different about it all. But he did and we're now left with the best version of the game.
I wish they'd be more transparent with the upcoming PC version and just say once and for all if the lighting will make it. Hell, I'd be willing to take a delay of a month or two to get that reimplemented.
geordiemp
Member
Nah...
I have stopped day 1 and pre-order entirely after so much crap this last year starting with BF4 and onwards....
I wait at least a week, read peoples opinions, reviews, watch content, and then I buy.
Saved me so much pain.
Did not buy BF4 (buggy mess)
Did not buy Need for speed (jerky)
Did not buy DS (will wait for a decent Ps4 version maybe)
I have stopped day 1 and pre-order entirely after so much crap this last year starting with BF4 and onwards....
I wait at least a week, read peoples opinions, reviews, watch content, and then I buy.
Saved me so much pain.
Did not buy BF4 (buggy mess)
Did not buy Need for speed (jerky)
Did not buy DS (will wait for a decent Ps4 version maybe)
allangelsgone
Member
The same gamers that bitched endlessly about how much the PC port sucked and how no one should ever support it with money? I think some people in here need to go back to the launch of Dark Souls PC and read what actually happened.
After we're all done complaining about the lighting, let's go enjoy a good Whopper from Burger King. The burgers always look exactly like the advertisement. After we're done complaining about Dark Souls II and eating good nourishing food, we can can go back to enjoying Dark Souls II.
Ahah oh wow.
Based on this post, publishers should be able to show and promise anything, as long as it remotely resembles the final product!
It's ok, because fast-food joints do it!
Unless i misunderstood the sarcasm of it.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Damn, the lighting looks awful
Uh, so you may want to revisit that... The patches have improved the game massively since release and it was already a blast. This is coming from someone who was nothing but dubious about a non-criterion developed NFS.
The game looks better than on launch, runs better and is waaaaay less buggy. I think it's a damned shame that the studio got gutted. They actually did a great amalgamation of the concepts introduced in Hot Pursuit and last year's Most Wanted.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Holy shit you guys actually think they are going to add new textures, new geometry, a new lighting system and a different colour palette for the PC version and these imaginary next gen versions. Lol. This is FROM and Namco we're talking about.
Well, I found out about it three days before launch day (today, Europe) and was able to cancel my preorder, so I'd guess a lot of US people would have done the same but didn't have time.
I have no interest in playing a rushed piece of crap with a key gameplay element removed that looks as bad or worse than a mediocre-looking game from 5 years ago. That's not acceptable to me. Nor is misleading the public and doing a bait-and-switch without commenting on it acceptable.
I'm not one for social media campaigns but I certainly don't disagree with the people trying to set this one up.
Glad we have your attention, J.K
Following on from this thread, I have started a Twitter campaign aimed at Namco/From Software.
Namco Bandai America:
https://twitter.com/namcogames
Namco Bandai UK:
https://twitter.com/NamcoBandaiUK
Namco Bandai community manager:
https://twitter.com/JKartje
The goal of this is to get answers from Namco/From Software about the sudden and inexplicable downgrade of Dark Souls 2's graphics at the last second without so much of a whisper to its consumers, after showing off their new lighting engine and touting gameplay features which no longer exist all the way up to a month before release., and if the PC version will be affected by these changes.
zephervack made a good post in the other thread about the different builds:
The issue here is that we were deceived all the way up until launch, with no indication that the graphics had been butchered beyond recognition until the game was already in our hands. A lot of people, including myself, were incredibly impressed by the atmosphere from the lighting and the torch mechanic shown until the end of January, and for them to suddenly disappear a few weeks later in the final release after selling those mechanics to us since the reveal, with NOT A SINGLE INDICATION, is INCREDIBLY dishonest and borderline false advertising.
As I said before, the goal of this thread is to get answers from Namco and From Software about this, and if the PC version will be affected by these changes. This thread is NOT about comparing the pre-release and retail versions of the game, if you want that then take it to the other thread. I want this to be a joint effort of trying to contact them for questioning.
To help, sign in/up to Twitter and tweet the following accounts above with the hash tag #DarkSoulsDowngrade with a link to this thread or a message to Namco.
Thank you.
Is it just me that see's a game with better detail and textures than the reveal with a cut back (see easier to see) lighting system.
I think this is problem here showing a game so early in Dev and then as any project moves on things change, like movie trailers that have scenes in them that never make the cut. Once a project gets near the end, ideas that worked at first conflict with others later and "Changes" get made, A Change <> = "DownGrade" this still looks very nice to be on old gen systems.
I am not advocating lying, but this medium we have allows us to be teased with footage of games very early in the process, nothing else gets this kind of long span of public view. So the price we pay is to get excited about a project, stay informed and expect change. Is this the reason Sony (with its devs) have kept everything for the The Order 1886 & Uncharted after lessons from the Driveclub slating it got here and Quantom Break again learning from this, keep your game covered until 95-95% complete.
It all seems to be a TREND at moment to jump up and down about Downgrade, until we leave Last Gen behind we all have to expect a "Tethered" experience.
They're more likely to if they know how their fanbase feels about a game that looks wildly different from every trailer and is missing gameplay elements that were supposed to be core to the experience.
Only one way to find out.
First off: #YOULIED is a fantastic hashtag :lol
Secondly: The downgrade is truly something horrible. I gave FROM some credit first because the earlier comparisons didn't seem like a downgrade but more like a change in art direction, but man those videos and gifs are making the point clear. Personally, I never planned to play this on either PS3 or Xbox 360, but now I'm pretty cautious about the PC release. They announced it as their lead platform and are putting in some extra time, but you never know.
This is so weird because I remember the beta on the PS3 as a good-looking game..
Secondly: The downgrade is truly something horrible. I gave FROM some credit first because the earlier comparisons didn't seem like a downgrade but more like a change in art direction, but man those videos and gifs are making the point clear. Personally, I never planned to play this on either PS3 or Xbox 360, but now I'm pretty cautious about the PC release. They announced it as their lead platform and are putting in some extra time, but you never know.
This is so weird because I remember the beta on the PS3 as a good-looking game..
Maybe if you didn't pay attention to the marketing/trailers/gameplay demos, sure I guess.
Eh? The difference is absolutely massive. If you've seen some of the pre-release screenshots in this thread I can't understand how you wouldn't realise that it has been significantly downgraded whilst playing. How many people who pre-order go in completely blind anyway?
geordiemp
Member
Well, last I read was this on Digital Foundry
Sorry, I saw Ps4 and Xbox One have same performance (Parity...LOL ), game stutters and repeats frames at 30 FPS...so I put it in the no buy pile...Looks like they put no effort into the Ps4 version...
If pubs want me to buy their game for £ 55 in UK on Ps4 I need to see that they have put every effort and consideration into the version that I am buying (Ps4). I never buy a game before a DF analysis....
If they cant be bothered to put effort into a game, then I cant be bothered to follow and buy it......
If they did fix it, then Pubs should give DF a new interview and analysis showing how superbly it now runs on Ps4 and how the new added effects / AF or whatever they added enhances the experience ..
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