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Masahiro Sakurai, The only Nintendo Dev that knows his fan base?
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EmCeeGramr
Member
For Glory mode doesn't sound perfect and can definitely use tweaking, but it shows more of a recognition of issues and wants than most other Nintendo games. I think the fact that he's not really a Nintendo employee and actually plays other games means that he's ahead of like, EAD, in that regard.
After that I would suppose the Mario Kart team and maaaybe the Zelda team (in the last year or so) in a distant third are better at reacting to complaints and desires of their fanbase. They still end up bound by a lot of... Nintendo-ness (a double edged sword of wanting to "do things different" which results in both unique ideas and a complete ignorance of genuinely good trends), but they seem to try.
It's also worth noting that despite all of the frequent claims about Sakurai making Melee 'as a fluke' or that Brawl showed he was a big doo-doo head or whatever, most of the interviews I recall show that he purposefully made Melee the way it is, then made Brawl the way it was because he was purposefully trying to appeal to a more casual crowd for the Wii, and recognizes that he went too far in some instances.
After that I would suppose the Mario Kart team and maaaybe the Zelda team (in the last year or so) in a distant third are better at reacting to complaints and desires of their fanbase. They still end up bound by a lot of... Nintendo-ness (a double edged sword of wanting to "do things different" which results in both unique ideas and a complete ignorance of genuinely good trends), but they seem to try.
It's also worth noting that despite all of the frequent claims about Sakurai making Melee 'as a fluke' or that Brawl showed he was a big doo-doo head or whatever, most of the interviews I recall show that he purposefully made Melee the way it is, then made Brawl the way it was because he was purposefully trying to appeal to a more casual crowd for the Wii, and recognizes that he went too far in some instances.
Super Stardust
Member
Yep all of us in the smash thread agree with this and want to start a twitter campaign, just waiting for someone to make a thread for it
It's a nod without actually understanding the tournament community. It is at least something, but still not a good sign of how he might be treating the game.
Nice to see, but still leaves me dissapointed.
Nah, Sakurai is late to the trolling game.
I honestly feel that a lot of devs these days have entered a pissing contest with Kamiya and Kojima.
This is giving me the image of Iwata being a tyrant and telling the other Nintendo devs not to play anything besides their designated games. air.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
You guys do realize that at the beginning of the video he explicitly states that the game is still in development and is subject to change. Its very possible For Glory mode gets tweaked before its release based on feedback.
Absolutely! Any attempt is better than no attempt.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
people needs to stop saying this for number 1. sakurai never said there wouldnt be stock matches for "for glory" mode, this is a assumption, and probably a big one that everyone instantly jumps on
And being in tune with the fans is perfect for this kind of stuff!
I would argue that things like tripping weren't fine and he purposely made changes to the game so that it wouldn't end up like Melee. I like Brawl but there's a reason why Melee is better recieved by fans of the series.
As far as the no lobbies thing goes, I'm positive that's Nintendo's decision and not Sakurai's.
I get the sense that they're way more fixated their own vision and their own product that they don't really get out there to play other games.
Miyamoto has a yearly tradition where he basically walks around E3 and plays and looks at other games, and I seriously wonder if that's the only time he even sees them.
Don't forget Ono and his entirely too long "You haven't guessed the 5th character" ordeal.
Uh, it will get repetitive.
Graphical, and what seem to be small size and ledge differences aside, it still just a flat platform.
I don't want to be stuck on a single stage when I want to play with items off. Additionally, the video implied that you won't be able to play stock matches with randoms and that's the way I (and the competitive scene) play 99,9% of the time.
theprodigy
Member
This is true for sure. We should be happy to be acknowledged at all, I agree. It's a step up.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The people making Mario Kart seem to know what they're doing.
Maybe not lobbies but it's weird that they wouldn't adopt MK7's community system which would have been perfect for something like Smash.
He might not say it but the footage doesn't show stocks and also the For Glory features don't list it. He specifically mentions "stocks" for vs friends/private sessions. If stocks were a feature of For Glory, don't you think he'd mention it just like private sessions?
I do. Therefore I am inclined to fear the worst. Feature set for random vs in Nintendo games is always gimped.
Riposte
Member
SSB new online modes sounds a lot like wanting to "do things different"; it's only good if Brawl is the only other game you are looking at, you could actually choose stages (and item rules IIRC) in Brawl.
Also the Pokemon team does a pretty admirable job balancing and updating their games.
Also Pikmin 3 directly addressed complaints people had with the second one.
EmCeeGramr
Member
That's really a Japanese issue as a whole, though for Nintendo it's worse. There's this attitude of throwing yourself into your series and not really paying attention to much else except maybe other popular Japanese series that your higher ups are eyeballing the sales of.
It's also why it's easy to believe that he's friends with Kojima; Kojima is kind of an oddity in the Japanese development world in that his series actually makes an attempt to keep up with Western franchises and follow trends like online multiplayer and modern third person control schemes, and Kojima is open about playing other games including Western titles.
At no point did I say anything that contradicted these things?
You know what, I actually meant Melee is the competitive game.
Brain fart on my part. Sorry!
Yeah, I have to edit Melee into the picture!
I don't really have any insight to Nintendo's development process, but from what I've gathered from the interviews I've read with Sakurai, he seems way more of a control freak than any other Nintendo director. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you. Just interesting since it seems like nearly all the ideas for his games come directly from him as opposed to being a group effort.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Consider: For Glory isn't to placate the existing competitive SSB community, it's Sakurai's genuine take on what he thinks makes a good competitive SSB match--in particular, one that's as opposite to an "all stages all items" match as possible. It not exactly aligning with what competitive people are doing doesn't mean he's out of touch, he has no obligation whatsoever to canonize what they play. This is just his approach to it.
It also has nothing to do with how competitive smash would ever be played anyway, since it's just a "vs randoms" mode. The direct comparisons to competitive smash rules are largely irrelevant, 100% of actual competitive smash battles will be played via modes with customizable rulesets. For Glory is one thing and one thing only: an opportunity to play a no-items match on Final Destination vs a random dude or dudes. It doesn't claim to be more, and honestly I don't think it really needs to be more.
It also has nothing to do with how competitive smash would ever be played anyway, since it's just a "vs randoms" mode. The direct comparisons to competitive smash rules are largely irrelevant, 100% of actual competitive smash battles will be played via modes with customizable rulesets. For Glory is one thing and one thing only: an opportunity to play a no-items match on Final Destination vs a random dude or dudes. It doesn't claim to be more, and honestly I don't think it really needs to be more.
Funkyhamster
Member
The hell is wrong with Nintendo Land? Fantastic game.
But other than that, yeah, this post is spot on. I was shocked by all the trolling and his knowledge of what the community wants. It makes for a really striking contrast compared to the rest of Nintendo. I think Nintendo has done a good job of addressing fans' desires in the games themselves recently with games like SM3DW and ALBW, but the developers and execs always seem so aloof and in their own world.
But other than that, yeah, this post is spot on. I was shocked by all the trolling and his knowledge of what the community wants. It makes for a really striking contrast compared to the rest of Nintendo. I think Nintendo has done a good job of addressing fans' desires in the games themselves recently with games like SM3DW and ALBW, but the developers and execs always seem so aloof and in their own world.
Hi.
(I came up with this name ages ago as a variation because Oblivion is super common.)
I'm not sure that it necessarily shows that he's "in touch" with the Smash Bros fanbase more than any of Nintendo's other developers about their respective franchises, but I do think that he has some better perspective than the folks at EAD when it comes to an understanding of the kind of experiences that the more traditionally-"hardcore" gamer in general likes. I think this was on full display in the development of Kid Icarus Uprising as well, as an action-heavy game with a pretty strong online multiplayer component to it, lots of different options and play styles that you don't necessarily see from other Nintendo properties.
Even with the complaints about For Glory being Final Destination-only, he's acknowledging that there are very different audiences for this game and that the options in Brawl were very limited in comparison. I'm also very intrigued by the return of the City Trial as a way to add some diversity to the typical timed Smash Bros round, and I'd bet that since Smash Run is 3DS-only, there will be some other Wii U-only mode to compensate. He's always looking to add to the feature-set, which is something that could be argued is lacking from a lot of other "big" Nintendo IP's like the Super Mario 3D series. This and Mario Kart seem like they're the only multiplayer properties out of Nintendo to really show ambition, and fans respect that.
Even with the complaints about For Glory being Final Destination-only, he's acknowledging that there are very different audiences for this game and that the options in Brawl were very limited in comparison. I'm also very intrigued by the return of the City Trial as a way to add some diversity to the typical timed Smash Bros round, and I'd bet that since Smash Run is 3DS-only, there will be some other Wii U-only mode to compensate. He's always looking to add to the feature-set, which is something that could be argued is lacking from a lot of other "big" Nintendo IP's like the Super Mario 3D series. This and Mario Kart seem like they're the only multiplayer properties out of Nintendo to really show ambition, and fans respect that.
I just want stocks, okay, that's all I want. ;~;
Then it would be a mode I would actually play.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Yea that's my point. He does what he thinks is best service to his vision. Makes things easier for broader Nintendo fan to have fun, simple clean UI, with the option to remove some more "hardcore players" from the way he prefers te game played (all items, random multiplayet mayem fun etc).
He's not catering to you, he's catering to himself and his design. It just works because he's REALLY FUCKING GOOD at it Haha
Your post makes so much more sense then. Lol, I was really confused, started typing up a response, then just shook my head and abandoned it. In that case I agree.
Yeah, pretty much. Sakurai is well aware of what everyone wants. He just doesn't care. :lol
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Well in the explicit rulesets laid out for both For Fun and For Glory in the Direct, there were certainly no stipulations re: stock vs time. We don't honestly have any reason to think it's limited to one or the other.
DashReindeer
Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
I can't be the only one who came into this thread expecting it to be about Zero Suit Samus's boobs. right?
But yeah, the fact that Sakurai can so astutely troll all of the Smash fans just shows that he is in more in touch with the fanbase than a lot of Nintendo.
But yeah, the fact that Sakurai can so astutely troll all of the Smash fans just shows that he is in more in touch with the fanbase than a lot of Nintendo.
Smash would probably benefit from multiple games per generation in that Sakurai seems to be on the right track but oversights like For Glory being timed matches only (if this is true) sting more knowing you might not see another Smash for five or more years. I really hope that Smash 6 rumor is true. The Smash series would lend itself to some Capcom-style upgraded versions although it would probably hurt the sales of the Smash franchise in the long term.
I think For Glory being no items, Final Destination only is a brilliant idea that I've always wanted. It simultaneously appeals to the more competitive sect of Smash fans and clearly establishes a standard set of "rules" for competitive Smash so detractors couldn't argue that Smash players have to modify a party game to turn it into a fighting game.
Of course, this would be better if each level was available in Battlefield style as well. In fact, I always thought that since Smash is all about options and customization that stage options where stage hazards and the like could be toggled would be great.
Aside from great online play being probably too much to hope for, as it's Nintendo, this Smash is shaping up pretty nicely. I kind of wish Final Smashes were incorporated outside of items, like with a super meter or something but I'd be happy if Smash took more cues from 2D fighters anyway. A super meter would be fantastic as you could use it for other things like EX specials or powered up shields.
I think For Glory being no items, Final Destination only is a brilliant idea that I've always wanted. It simultaneously appeals to the more competitive sect of Smash fans and clearly establishes a standard set of "rules" for competitive Smash so detractors couldn't argue that Smash players have to modify a party game to turn it into a fighting game.
Of course, this would be better if each level was available in Battlefield style as well. In fact, I always thought that since Smash is all about options and customization that stage options where stage hazards and the like could be toggled would be great.
Aside from great online play being probably too much to hope for, as it's Nintendo, this Smash is shaping up pretty nicely. I kind of wish Final Smashes were incorporated outside of items, like with a super meter or something but I'd be happy if Smash took more cues from 2D fighters anyway. A super meter would be fantastic as you could use it for other things like EX specials or powered up shields.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I don't know, you probably should read all the Aonuma interviews in the past year and what he's done in ALBW. It feels like he's talking in such a way that he's pushing all of the right buttons
It would great if there was an endless or very long royal rumble lobby with stocks. You lose all your stocks, you're out and someone else joins in.
I think in fairness, Final Destination is the ultimate balanced stage. Who's to say which stages from the 3DS and Wii U will end up being balanced as well and have minimal to no stage hazards?
This is also the first Nintendo console to allow for patches, so there's always the possibility, no matter how remote, that Sakurai might be able to toggle switches from the motherboard in Japan to allow variety in Smash.
But I can guarantee most of my time will be spent in For Fun. Love me some item chaos.
This is also the first Nintendo console to allow for patches, so there's always the possibility, no matter how remote, that Sakurai might be able to toggle switches from the motherboard in Japan to allow variety in Smash.
But I can guarantee most of my time will be spent in For Fun. Love me some item chaos.
Riposte
Member
I'll put it like this: I don't think Sakurai &co are visibly better than the Mario Kart or Pokemon teams at the stuff you are talking about, especially in the online space. Despite Sakurai being a freelance, I actually think this game will hurt Nintendo's reputation with online games (overshadowing stuff like Pokemon).
theprodigy
Member
This has never been true, and likely never will be true.
Just throwing this idea out there:
It's possible that For Glory wasn't necessarily made to appease the "competitive" crowd. Sakurai and the development team may have compiled data from online Brawl matches(or, seeing how behind Nintendo was with online, just looked at a bunch of recorded spectator matches). If you've played Brawl's online for a decent amount of time, it was clear that Final Destination was still a popular stage with random people as well. Sakurai possibly saw this, which would explain why he opted for a Final Destination frenzy mode.
It's possible that For Glory wasn't necessarily made to appease the "competitive" crowd. Sakurai and the development team may have compiled data from online Brawl matches(or, seeing how behind Nintendo was with online, just looked at a bunch of recorded spectator matches). If you've played Brawl's online for a decent amount of time, it was clear that Final Destination was still a popular stage with random people as well. Sakurai possibly saw this, which would explain why he opted for a Final Destination frenzy mode.
Nintendo Land is local, and tries to shoehorn new concepts into an archaic game structures (no online, party game aesthetic).
ALBW was also great, but they could have done more for the price.