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[emb]

But what's right? The competitive scene has been fighting for over a decade over which stages are acceptable and which aren't.

I don't see the problem here, competitive players are going to add each other as friends anyway and then decide for themselves what stages to play on... And For Glory will be a nice place to meet other competitive players.

Yeah, I think the negativity is overblown. Yeah, it's frustrating that the devs don't 'get it', but at least they're trying to throw us a bone. It's not like super serious competition is going to go down in random online matches anyway.

I do hope FD mode will be available for local play though. I imagine competitions will make all of them legal, but for Dave's stupid rule/striking, treat them as if there's only one FD. At least hopefully.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

I see everywhere that people don't like "FD only" because they think it'll be just like the Final Destination map (completely flat with no platforms), but I think this will change before release. I think it was more of a fan-service deal to label it as FD-only and some of the real maps will have platforms.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I see everywhere that people don't like "FD only" because they think it'll be just like the Final Destination map (completely flat with no platforms), but I think this will change before release. I think it was more of a fan-service deal to label it as FD-only and some of the real maps will have platforms.

That's what they demoed though. Even the reskinned levels had no platforms.

 

[HK-47]

I see everywhere that people don't like "FD only" because they think it'll be just like the Final Destination map (completely flat with no platforms), but I think this will change before release. I think it was more of a fan-service deal to label it as FD-only and some of the real maps will have platforms.

I'm pretty sure FD only is pretty clear on the matter.

 

[icy_eagle]

I see everywhere that people don't like "FD only" because they think it'll be just like the Final Destination map (completely flat with no platforms), but I think this will change before release. I think it was more of a fan-service deal to label it as FD-only and some of the real maps will have platforms.

Dude, they FD-ified Battlefield, it doesn't get any more clear-cut than that.

IF things change, it'll be because of feedback

 

[Riki]

Why would they change this? This is perfect. You ger Final Destination with a variety of skins. How is that bad? It doesn't take away from the stages in any way.

 

[Marcel]

Why would they change this? This is perfect. You ger Final Destination with a variety of skins. How is that bad? It doesn't take away from the stages in any way.

The FGC/Smash Bros. peeps just want Melee 2 but also the new popular competition rotation of stages I guess. That's not even speaking to what will be the stage or mode du jour in a few months or years.

We can talk all day about what they want or don't want but it basically comes down to unrealistic expectations.

 

[Riki]

The FGC/Smash Bros. peeps just want Melee 2 but also the new popular competition rotation of stages I guess. That's not even speaking to what will be the stage or mode du jour in a few months or years.

We can talk all day about what they want or don't want but it basically comes down to unrealistic expectations.

But it still makes no sense. Competative players want the simpilest stages that leave little room for chance. Now they have a dozen options for that.
I've never seen a serious Melee competition that didn't feature FD as the main stage.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

That's what they demoed though. Even the reskinned levels had no platforms.

I'm pretty sure FD only is pretty clear on the matter.

Dude, they FD-ified Battlefield, it doesn't get any more clear-cut than that.

IF things change, it'll be because of feedback

That's why I said "I think it will change." I'm pretty sure they know that FD-only gives certain characters advantages. It's possible that they don't care that certain characters will be weak on these stages or that they've balanced the game around FD-only style maps. However, with the long history of competitive Smash, I think it's more likely that they'll just add platforms to the stages before release and label it as FD-style. Everything is still subject to change.

 

[Tomohawk]

Fortunately Sakurai is making a game for all manner of competitive and casual players and is not guiding the development based on the whims of the FGC/Smash Bros. contingent.

I dont think the fgc/smash bros. contingent are the only competitive players who use more than FD.

 

[injurai]

I don't understand why competitive players are upset about For the Glory.

Because competitive play is more based around platforms than not.

 

[KittenMaster]

Sounds like you will prefer the For Fun lobby.

Battlefield is considered a no stage hazard, competitive oriented stage alongside Final Destination, and the importance is that it favors different character choices than Final Destination.

 

[collige]

But it still makes no sense. Competative players want the simpilest stages that leave little room for chance. Now they have a dozen options for that.
I've never seen a serious Melee competition that didn't feature FD as the main stage.

All of them? There are five main stages used in competitive Melee, none of them are preferred.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament_legal_%28SSBM%29

 

[Marcel]

I dont think the fgc/smash bros. contingent are the only competitive players who use more than FD.

You're right and stage rotation is in For Fun. And like many people are saying, most of the serious competitions take place in person and not online, where of course people will able to choose whatever stages they want. It'll be okay. If it makes the FGC sad, just know they'll always have Melee to fawn over.

 

[sn00zer]

Honestly I just want more than final destination for competitive play.....its not crazy...its like if Halo/Counterstrike/UT/Q3 had one map layout for competitive play and one specific rule set and competitive players were encouraged only to play on that one map for anything to count....literally cutting over 95% of the available maps

 

[Darryl]

I'm glad they have an online mode for serious play. Not gonna get worried about the flat stage stuff yet just because it's extremely easy and highly logical for them to put in a "add platform" toggle. They clearly know some heroes are better at the ground game. They discussed it multiple times in the Direct.

Sad though I'm one of the few people who think that items deserve their way into high skill matches. Hopefully that matchmaking ends up in "For Fun" as well

 

[sn00zer]

I'm glad they have an online mode for serious play. Not gonna get worried about the flat stage stuff yet just because it's extremely easy and highly logical for them to put in a "add platform" toggle. They clearly know some heroes are better at the ground game. They discussed it multiple times in the Direct.

Sad though I'm one of the few people who think that items deserve their way into high skill matches. Hopefully that matchmaking ends up in "For Fun" as well

I honestly wish for this too, but Brawl was so horrible unbalanced with even the most bsic items....item matches are still a ton of fun....who doesnt have a high drop pokeball and assist trophy match every once and a while

 

[batbeg]

I can see myself using the shit out of For Glory. I loved Final Destination's simplicity and this is just an incredible idea.

I can also see myself using the shit out of For Fun. Because Smash is so god damned awesome and variety is the spice of life.

 

[C.Olimar788]

In which Sakurai missed the entire concept of competitive play, yay! Has he ever watched a competitive Smash Bros. match in his life?

I guess it's the thought that counts, but I sincerely hope he realizes his silly mistake and adds platforms to at least half of the FD versions before release. It's an easy fix that would work wonders for competitive play.

Spoiler

Assuming competitive play doesn't just not exist because of a lack of wired controllers, but that's a separate problem altogether.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Sucks that it's FD only, so weird.

 

[0xCA2]

In which Sakurai missed the entire concept of competitive play, yay! Has he ever watched a competitive Smash Bros. match in his life?

That's the weird thing. All it takes is watching one match to see that people play more than FD. He has to have seen at least one, if not more. This reads as a joke.

 

[Marcel]

Has he ever watched a competitive Smash Bros. match in his life?

Why would he? He's not making the game strictly for the western Smash Bros. tournament community.

 

[Coolwhip]

As someone that never played Smash, what's the fun in flat stages? Aren't the platforms what make Smash unique?

 

[theprodigy]

But it still makes no sense. Competative players want the simpilest stages that leave little room for chance. Now they have a dozen options for that.
I've never seen a serious Melee competition that didn't feature FD as the main stage.

I take it you've never actually watched a Melee tournament.

edit: this is Brawl, but case in point (data from Brawl at MLG in 2010):

notice how FD is even the most banned stage there, granted Brawl FD is far more polarizing than Melee FD

edit: man they should try compiling this+character selection at MLG Anaheim for Melee

 

[thatmariolover]

As someone that never played Smash, what's the fun in flat stages? Aren't the platforms what make Smash unique?

Yes and no. Sometimes it's fun playing with things as simplified as possible. No items, no platforms, etc.

I used to have a lot of fun with Dedede vs. Bowser on a flat stage like Final Destination. You turn no items on. Dedede is a wildcard because he can throw items into a 'no-item' match.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Final Destination is not exactly the most balanced thing either, so this was a huge disappointment for me. He should have just removed stage hazards instead of making alternate stages.

 

[Snakeyes]

This comes off as trolling more than anything else. The least he could do is have four Final Destination variants in For Glory;

- Flat (vanilla FD)
- One larger platform (Smashville, Halberd)
- Two platforms (Pokemon Stadium)
- Three platforms (Battlefield, Lylat Cruise)

There. Plenty of variety while remaining more or less neutral.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Too many people assume they know competitive Smash when they just know a meme.

 

[0xCA2]

Why would he? He's not making the game strictly for the western Smash Bros. tournament community.

If he wants to include a mode to appease competitive players (as this seemingly is), he should probably pay attention to them. Right now it's looking like he added a feature that won't get used.

This comes off as trolling more than anything else. The least he could do is have four Final Destination variants in For Glory;

- Flat (vanilla FD)
- One larger platform (Smashville)
- Two platforms (Pokemon Stadium)
- Three platforms (Battlefield)

There. Plenty of variety while remaining more or less neutral.

THus actually sounds awesome.

 

[injurai]

As someone that never played Smash, what's the fun in flat stages? Aren't the platforms what make Smash unique?

It can be frustrating to navigate if can't string together movies with short jumping on command. Once a player can quickly navigate platforms they have a huge advantage over players that can't. Not to mention so characters are really strong on stages with platforms.

Flat stages can take away a lot of nuanced annoyances. Honestly it's great fun, just not to play again and again. Those who think FD is the creme of competition don't rally understand the competitive scene.

 

[Marcel]

This comes off as trolling more than anything else. The least he could do is have four Final Destination variants in For Glory;

- Flat (vanilla FD)
- One larger platform (Smashville)
- Two platforms (Pokemon Stadium 2)
- Three platforms (Battlefield)

There. Plenty of variety while remaining more or less neutral.

I think it comes off as Sakurai not knowing or not especially giving a fuck about the western competitive scene, which is fine.

 

[Marcel]

If he wants to include a mode to appease competitive players (as this seemingly is), he should probably pay attention to them. Right now it's looking like he added a feature that won't get used.

It sounds like he included a mode to appease competitive players who want stage rotation. It's called "For Fun" and you can choose to play whatever you want with your online friends or randoms. Amazing, right?

 

[HK-47]

I think it comes off as Sakurai not knowing or not especially giving a fuck about the western competitive scene, which is fine.

I'd rather have FD and three variations of Battlefield than bothering to make FD versions of all the stages, which is terrible for any sort of "balanced" mode.

 

[theprodigy]

Fortunately Sakurai is making a game for all manner of competitive and casual players and is not guiding the development based on the whims of the FGC/Smash Bros. contingent.

The FGC/Smash Bros. peeps just want Melee 2 but also the new popular competition rotation of stages I guess. That's not even speaking to what will be the stage or mode du jour in a few months or years.

We can talk all day about what they want or don't want but it basically comes down to unrealistic expectations.

You're right and stage rotation is in For Fun. And like many people are saying, most of the serious competitions take place in person and not online, where of course people will able to choose whatever stages they want. It'll be okay. If it makes the FGC sad, just know they'll always have Melee to fawn over.

Why would he? He's not making the game strictly for the western Smash Bros. tournament community.

I think it comes off as Sakurai not knowing or not especially giving a fuck about the western competitive scene, which is fine.

It sounds like he included a mode to appease competitive players who want stage rotation. It's called "For Fun" and you can choose to play whatever you want with your online friends or randoms. Amazing, right?

You're really dedicated to shitting on competitive players, aren't you.

 

[FSLink]

It sounds like he included a mode to appease competitive players who want stage rotation. It's called "For Fun" and you can choose to play whatever you want with your online friends or randoms. Amazing, right?

First off, there's an edit button.

Second off, while it's nice they included a "VS friends" option and you can do whatever you want, it's clear the "For Glory" option is made for people who take Smash "more seriously" than "For Fun". But including only stages that are like Final Destination is missing the point of competitive Smash since anybody who's even played in a tournament knows it's not the most balanced stage. There's nothing wrong with people voicing their complaints in wanting a well made "VS randoms" option in addition to making friend matches. As it stands, not many people who play without items will ever use this mode.

 

[Suzushiiro]

As someone that never played Smash, what's the fun in flat stages? Aren't the platforms what make Smash unique?

Competitive players (in any video game, including Smash) like to play with as many of the random elements eliminated as possible, so victory is about skill and not if a dice roll went your way. So in tournaments you generally see them stick to the simpler stages with no weird shit like lava filling half the level, Pokemon bursting out of doors and punching you in the face, etc.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

You're really dedicated to shitting on competitive players, aren't you.

The work is real.

 

[Shaanyboi]

We're one step closer to the inclusion of the best way to play...

Everyone plays gigantic, super slow Captain Falcon on Final Destination.

 

[theprodigy]

also, for Melee stage data, here's the selection at Evo top 8:
Dreamland-9
Battlefield-7
Fountain of Dreams-5
Final Destination-3
Pokemon Stadium-1
Yoshi's Story-1

no items, Dreamland only amirite

 

[HK-47]

We're one step closer to the inclusion of the best way to play...

Everyone plays gigantic, super slow Captain Falcon on Final Destination.

The best way to play is 4 man ICs, coin match, big blue.

 

[FSLink]

I mean shoot, even as someone who's played in tourneys, the "For Fun" mode actually sounds pretty fun. The "For Glory" one doesn't when all it would take for me to use it somewhat is to add stages like Battlefield.

Of course I'd rather have them allow us to create public lobbies with any options we want.

 

[injurai]

Too many people assume they know competitive Smash when they just know a meme.

Not even sure it's that. Typically people that play semi-serious with friends or even completely casually will adopt no-items. FD is a stardard go to for 1v1's and everything else.

It's especially enticing for more competitive play for people of lower skill because platforms require much more nuanced control and greater knowledge of the game to really leverage. Often times small skill gaps at the lower skill levels will be expounded around platforms. FD drastically feels more like a level playing field, excuse the pun.

 

[Exile20]

Still hate that 'Final Destination' is designated as the only competitive stage....plenty of tiered stages perfectly suited for competitive play, Battlegrounds being the most obvious remission

This boggles my mind. I hope they patch this in.

 

[HK-47]

also, for Melee stage data, here's the selection at Evo top 8:
Dreamland-9
Battlefield-7
Fountain of Dreams-5
Final Destination-3
Pokemon Stadium-1
Yoshi's Story-1

no items, Dreamland only amirite

I'm so sad Rainbow Cruise is no longer a counterpick stage.

But this just proves the genius of comp Smash. Dreamland is indeed the best stage with the best music.

 

[Marcel]

You're really dedicated to shitting on competitive players, aren't you.

Not as much as Sakurai apparently.

 

[daxgame]

#esports

funny thing is in competitive Melee 5/6 of the stages have platforms

 

[Vampirolol]

You're really dedicated to shitting on competitive players, aren't you.

I don't blame him, competitive smashers are often complaining about everything like if they don't understand that it's Smash Bros., a fighting game born to be playable by anyone. This time it looks like Sakurai is thinking about those people but many of them just want to play melee.

 

[Codeblue]

Screenshots from the direct.

Looks like it's not just an aesthetic difference then? Some stages are missing the lip I always got caught under.

 

[0xCA2]

It sounds like he included a mode to appease competitive players who want stage rotation. It's called "For Fun" and you can choose to play whatever you want with your online friends or randoms. Amazing, right?

Okay, but it seems like For Glory was created specifically to stop competitive players from ruining the game for casual players. I think we can all agree that's a good idea

 

[HK-47]

I don't blame him, competitive smashers are often complaining about everything like if they don't understand that it's Smash Bros., a fighting game born to be playable by anyone. This time it looks like Sakurai is thinking about those people but many of them just want to play melee.

Has anyone complained about For Glory mode because it doesnt use Melee physics? I'll wait while you comb through the thread.