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[Triton55]

I don't think this is necessarily just meant for tournament players. There are TONS of people I know who are just decently skilled but automatically go for Final Destination every time.

I'm not a big Final Destination fan, but at least this means that there won't be the same aesthetics and music every single time I play with those people now.

 

[okayfrog]

Sakurai just dictated what competitive play is: No items, Final Destination

boosh

 

[theprodigy]

I don't blame him, competitive smashers are often complaining about everything like if they don't understand that it's Smash Bros., a fighting game born to be playable by anyone. This time it looks like Sakurai is thinking about those people but many of them just want to play melee.

Uh huh
Don't like a criticism? Tell them to stop whining!

 

[Broritos]

I'm glad most 'competitive' players are complaining about the For Glory mode. It makes me more excited because now I know when I play it, I'll be playing against real Smash players.

Final Destination is the only true stage that creates an even playing field for everyone. It's the reason why every other fighting game is designed around just a flat and even playing field.

Sakurai just dictated what competitive play is: No items, Final Destination

boosh

I'm glad and I completely agree with it.

 

[bawk]

I don't blame him, competitive smashers are often complaining about everything like if they don't understand that it's Smash Bros., a fighting game born to be playable by anyone. This time it looks like Sakurai is thinking about those people but many of them just want to play melee.

So a game 'playable by anyone' and competitive is mutually exclusive?

I'm glad most 'competitive' players are complaining about the For Glory mode. It makes me more excited because now I know when I play it, I'll be playing against real Smash players.

Final Destination is the only true stage that creates an even playing field for everyone. It's the reason why every other fighting game is designed around just a flat and even playing field.

The thing is it really isn't. FD heavily favors characters with projectiles.

 

[Platy]

OP forgot that we had 2 new stages revealed :

Baloon Trip for 3DS
Elite Four for WiiU

 

[Vampirolol]

So a game 'playable by anyone' and competitive is mutually exclusive?

No, I think that it's possible to please everyone and I believe in Sakurai + Namco. They just released some information, not everything, the direction seems fantastic. But for some people this game will be casual, no matter what.

Uh huh
Don't like a criticism? Stop whining!

Yes sure, I'll never understand competitive players so I always let them talk because I suck, but I have to say that they take themselves seriously and it's fun. I'm a competitive player in Mario Kart and the fanbase is so different.

 

[HK-47]

I'm glad most 'competitive' players are complaining about the For Glory mode. It makes me more excited because now I know when I play it, I'll be playing against real Smash players.

Final Destination is the only true stage that creates an even playing field for everyone. It's the reason why every other fighting game is designed around just a flat and even playing field.

Then why isnt it actually the most balanced stage? I dont even know why you would bring up traiditional fighters, when Smash is very different compared to them. Thats a large part of the appeal of the series.

 

[Codeblue]

I'm glad most 'competitive' players are complaining about the For Glory mode. It makes me more excited because now I know when I play it, I'll be playing against real Smash players.

Final Destination is the only true stage that creates an even playing field for everyone. It's the reason why every other fighting game is designed around just a flat and even playing field.

Final Destination heavily favors certain characters over others. It's in no way an even playing field. No stage is.

Every other fighting game is designed and balanced for only one type of stage, unlike Smash.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

People complaining about Sakurai missing the point seem to think he's doing this in earnest. I'm pretty sure he's throwing a sarcastic bone at the competitive scene.

 

[ito007]

i love this actually. i always find myself hating some of the gimmicks in certain stages. dont like the stage but like the theme? swap it out! im so excited for this game

 

[FSLink]

Final Destination is the only true stage that creates an even playing field for everyone. It's the reason why every other fighting game is designed around just a flat and even playing field.

Except Smash depends on platforms. Have fun fighting against competent Falcos in that mode!

People complaining about Sakurai missing the point seem to think he's doing this in earnest. I'm pretty sure he's throwing a sarcastic bone at the competitive scene.

He probably is, but I think people just want a vs randoms option online that isn't garbage.
They could just solve this by adding customizable public lobbies but that doesn't seem likely at this point.

 

[Alfredo]

While I think it's dumb that For Glory is just Final Destination, I think it's also dumb that For Fun excludes Final Destination.

 

[bawk]

I don't understand why competitive players are upset about For the Glory.

Because for the past 12 and a half years this has never been true. FD is rarely seen and actually Pokemon Stadium and Dream Land are two of the highest picked stages. The fox thing is a relatively recent development, yes hes always been top tier but there was still a ton of character diversity and representation in top 16 in most Smash majors. Fox never really completely dominated in terms of character representation until recently, its the year 20XX.

 

[Marcel]

Except Smash depends on platforms. Have fun fighting against competent Falcos in that mode!

Now there's a novel idea. I think I'll do that whether I'm playing with friends online, winning or losing to randoms online in For Glory, or having people over to play the game.

 

[danielcw]

In which Sakurai missed the entire concept of competitive play, yay!

Which part of the concept did he miss?

 

[HK-47]

People complaining about Sakurai missing the point seem to think he's doing this in earnest. I'm pretty sure he's throwing a sarcastic bone at the competitive scene.

Who thinks Sakurai is earnst about anything? He spent most of the direct trolling. I mean if this was serious we'd be talking about how Nintendo still seems to be light years behind the times in regards to online functionality.

 

[ito007]

little mac only, no items, final destination

 

[injurai]

In fact I just want to throw out there that spacies suck, and you should feel bad for playing one.

 

[bawk]

No, I think that it's possible to please everyone and I believe in Sakurai + Namco. They just released some information, not everything, the direction seems fantastic. But for some people this game will be casual, no matter what.


Yes sure, I'll never understand competitive players so I always let them talk because I suck, but I have to say that they take themselves seriously and it's fun. I'm a competitive player in Mario Kart and the fanbase is so different.

I'll say content-wise the game looks fantastic. An even better step than from Melee=>Brawl. Mechanically though it looks functionally identical to Brawl and based on his comments seems like it will take the same approach. So I'm weary. I'll still play it but I'm already pretty positive it won't have the staying power that Melee has.


Probably because Nintendo never really went out of their way to shit on the niche scene for MK as hard as they did with Brawl.

 

[FSLink]

Now there's a novel idea. I think I'll do that whether I'm playing with friends online, winning or losing to randoms online in For Glory, or having people over to play the game.

Okay, now you're just being an ass. Unless you think I don't have fun playing with items or whatever in Smash. I just want good online modes outside of private friend matches. How is that a bad thing?

 

[MikeXXIeaf]

The competitive community is vocal enough to influence anyone who is exposed to the game. It's easy to get the wrong idea and think FD is the best way to experience Smash Bros. If all someone sees are these 6 characters, on this 1 stage, then they receive a poor representation of the game.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I'm glad most 'competitive' players are complaining about the For Glory mode. It makes me more excited because now I know when I play it, I'll be playing against real Smash players.

don't you mean real Smash players

 

[Marcel]

Okay, now you're just being an ass. Unless you think I don't have fun playing with items or whatever in Smash. I just want good online modes outside of private friend matches. How is that a bad thing?

I never said it was bad to want what you want. It's not an elegant solution but it's the only one on offer at the moment. In all honesty it reads like a penalty box for competitive players, haha.

I think it's pretty clear Sakurai doesn't give a shit about the competitive scene. If you want to yell into the air about it, do so. Maybe it'll change. It's Nintendo though so you may have to yell even louder than you already are.

 

[Broritos]

The thing is it really isn't. FD heavily favors characters with projectiles.

Street Fighter has projectiles and they're constantly spammed and look how people play that competitively.

Then why isnt it actually the most balanced stage? I dont even know why you would bring up traiditional fighters, when Smash is very different compared to them. Thats a large part of the appeal of the series.

You haven't actually said anything in that post.

Final Destination heavily favors certain characters over others. It's in no way an even playing field. No stage is.

Every other fighting game is designed and balanced for only one type of stage, unlike Smash.

No it doesn't. Just because certain characters can't take advantage of platforms doesn't mean FD is unbalanced. It just means they need to change their playstyle just like every character has to depending on what character they're fighting against.

Except Smash depends on platforms. Have fun fighting against competent Falcos in that mode!

I think the person that directed all Smash games knows more on what Smash is 'dependent' on.

 

[PaperFlame]

I think this is a great selection, the more variety the game has the less likely you'll get bored of the game.

 

[HK-47]

Now there's a novel idea. I think I'll do that whether I'm playing with friends online, winning or losing to randoms online in For Glory, or having people over to play the game.

You realize competitive players of any game play it for fun right? They find competition fun? They dedicated themslves to the game because it was fun in the first place?

This is such a common jab at competitive players that I really dont understand how someone could convince themselves it was true. Just because someone takes playing a game seriously or wants the option of no items with a stage select doesnt mean they suddenly gave up having fun.

This is less about Sakurai bowing to the wisdom or whatever of Melee players and more a complaint about needlessly restrictive modes and a lack of customization for online play in a fighter that suppose to be about having tons of options. This isnt just a problem with For Glory lacking a stage select so much as how behind this online package seems.

 

[danielcw]

You haven't actually said anything in that post.

He did not say anything,
he asked a question.
A question which was not answered.

 

[Diprosalic]

People complaining about Sakurai missing the point seem to think he's doing this in earnest. I'm pretty sure he's throwing a sarcastic bone at the competitive scene.

lol yeah this was a game designer saying fuck you to a fan base....

and i loved it.


(i play smash competitively)

 

[Not]

There's always something to complain about, even when Sakurai turns every damn stage into an optional Final Destination. I just don't get you folks.

 

[Broritos]

He did not say anything,
he asked a question.
A question which was not answered.

It was answered in the first post I made.

 

[bawk]

Street Fighter has projectiles and they're constantly spammed and look how people play that competitively.

Yep, Street Fighter is balanced around that Smash isn't. Given in terms of movement Smash is much more flexible it still doesn't compensate for that. In SF generally speaking if your kit either has a built in way of dealing with it and/or your character has higher health so he can take the projectile tax to close in.

 

[PK Gaming]

It's the thought that counts!

It's a huge step over Brawl's "My-way-or-the-high-way" design philosophy.

 

[PreyingShark]

To be fair, "No items, 1v1, FD only" is very common among casual players who think playing like that makes them pro. I wouldn't be surprised if this mode was aimed at those wannabes and not the actual competitive players.

After all, online warriors are frequently wannabes. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ Sakurai has a cruel sense of humor. Also, it's very possible for there to be some Bandai Namco input here.

 

[theprodigy]

To be fair, "No items, 1v1, FD only" is very common among casual players who think playing like that makes them pro. I wouldn't be surprised if this mode was aimed at those wannabes and not the actual competitive players.

After all, online warriors are frequently wannabes. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ Sakurai has a cruel sense of humor. Also, it's very possible for there to be some Bandai Namco input here.

/dead

 

[Not]

It's the thought that counts!

It's a huge step over Brawl's "My-way-or-the-high-way" design philosophy.

This is for sure

 

[Broritos]

Yep, Street Fighter is balanced around that Smash isn't. Given in terms of movement Smash is much more flexible it still doesn't compensate for that. In SF generally speaking if your kit either has a built in way of dealing with it and/or your character has higher health so he can take the projectile tax to close in.

Of course Smash is balanced around projectiles. There are characters in Smash that can deal with projectiles just as easily as you described that there are characters in SF that can deal with projectiles. Smash of all games also has a huge emphasis on vertical play which makes projectile spamming all the more difficult. Smash is arguably the most balanced fighting game in terms of projectiles.

 

[Marcel]

You realize competitive players of any game play it for fun right? They find competition fun? They dedicated themslves to the game because it was fun in the first place?

This is such a common jab at competitive players that I really dont understand how someone could convince themselves it was true. Just because someone takes playing a game seriously or wants the option of no items with a stage select doesnt mean they suddenly gave up having fun.

This is less about Sakurai bowing to the wisdom or whatever of Melee players and more a complaint about needlessly restrictive modes and a lack of customization for online play in a fighter that suppose to be about having tons of options. This isnt just a problem with For Glory lacking a stage select so much as how behind this online package seems.

Online seems pretty great. The City Trial-inspired mode for 3DS looks amazing to play and some of other modes seem to be tailored to have all skill levels participate. Inclusiveness is good!

Speaking of participation, you don't have to play For Glory, you know. They have that other mode with the stage select. What was it called again?

 

[HK-47]

It was answered in the first post I made.

No you didnt. You made a bad comparison between two very different types of fighting games and then said it was an even playing field. Not only is that shitty reasoning, it doesnt address the fact that stages like Battlefield or Smashville are far more well balanced and even they are not perfect. Smash has always been a series about having the stage be a variable element. Particularly because it isnt a stamina based fighter and involves quite of a bit of platforming, even on FD.

 

[JoeInky]

The whole "no items, 1v1, final destination" thing just seems to be a joke about what the casuals view the competitive scene as, it's literally only there so that people who are rubbish at the game can have a change and think they're playing competitively once in a while.

Any form of competitive smash 4 played online is going to be in a friends lobby, it's ridiculous to think other wise.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I think the person that directed all Smash games knows more on what Smash is 'dependent' on.

lol @ trusting devs with that shit

The whole "no items, 1v1, final destination" thing just seems to be a joke about what the casuals view the competitive scene as, it's literally only there so that people who are rubbish at the game can have a change and think they're playing competitively once in a while.

Any form of competitive smash 4 played online is going to be in a friends lobby, it's ridiculous to think other wise.

Basically. That's why it's not such a big deal in the end. Doesn't help with the overall ignorance though.

 

[FSLink]

I think the person that directed all Smash games knows more on what Smash is 'dependent' on.

Way to miss the point, of course he does. But the idea of platforms and knocking people off it is what makes Smash different than traditional fighters. Reducing everything to just flat stages also affects balance. It's fine if Sakurai just wants to keep it like this, but you can't expect people to be satisfied when all they want is options in a series that's pretty good at giving them (Item Switch, Random Select toggle, etc)

I never said it was bad to want what you want. It's not an elegant solution but it's the only one on offer at the moment. In all honesty it reads like a penalty box for competitive players, haha.

I think it's pretty clear Sakurai doesn't give a shit about the competitive scene. If you want to yell into the air about it, do so. Maybe it'll change. It's Nintendo though so you may have to yell even louder than you already are.

Sakurai did voice that he wanted to reach some sort of middle ground. And they do listen to Miiverse posts sometimes, even if it's Nintendo. But saying stuff like "Oh, well fun, that's a novel concept!" is not really good at making any meaningful discussion, and it sounds like you're just trying to start something. It's silly, there's no reason why people can't voice for more options in a video game.

 

[theprodigy]

Way to miss the point, of course he does. But the idea of platforms and knocking people off it is what makes Smash different than traditional fighters. Reducing everything to just flat stages also affects balance. It's fine if Sakurai just wants to keep it like this, but you can't expect people to be satisfied when all they want is options in a series that's pretty good at giving them (Item Switch, Random Select toggle, etc)



Sakurai did voice that he wanted to reach some sort of middle ground. And they do listen to Miiverse posts sometimes, even if it's Nintendo. But saying stuff like "Oh, well fun, that's a novel concept!" is not really good at making any meaningful discussion, and it sounds like you're just trying to start something. It's silly, there's no reason why people can't voice for more options in a video game.

have you seen his posts? he's clearly just here to talk shit

 

[HK-47]

Online seems pretty great. The City Trial-inspired mode for 3DS looks amazing to play and some of other modes seem to be tailored to have all skill levels participate.

Speaking of participation, you don't have to play For Glory, you know. They have that other mode with the stage select. What was it called again?

What if I want to play with no items but with a stage select? Can you show me that mode, please?

 

[Stat!]

I'm actually pretty happy about it. Sometimes I love how maps look but not the map itself.

Will this be available for the 3DS version too?

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I think the person that directed all Smash games knows more on what Smash is 'dependent' on.

Competitive play goes beyond the scope of what developers often intend. That's why there are constant needs for balance patches and what not. This isn't unique to Smash but every game.

 

[Broritos]

No you didnt. You made a bad comparison between two very different types of fighting games and then said it was an even playing field. Not only is that shitty reasoning, it doesnt address the fact that stages like Battlefield or Smashville are far more well balanced and even they are not perfect. Smash has always been a series about having the stage be a variable element. Particularly because it isnt a stamina based fighter and involves quite of a bit of platforming, even on FD.

You asked why FD is unbalanced and I said it is because it's even. I mean that in the most literal sense. The platform is perfectly even and there is only one platform making it the plainest and most balanced stage. Yes there are other stages that are just as balanced such as Battlefield. Just because Smash can be played in a variety of ways and stages doesn't negate the mathematical fact that FD is the most even and balanced stage there could possibly be.

Competitive play goes beyond the scope of what developers often intend. That's why there are constant needs for balance patches and what not. This isn't unique to Smash but every game.

That is very true. In the Direct, Sakurai spent a lot of time discussing a lot of the character balance changes. That, coupled with the choice that the For Glory mode will only have FD should be some indication that this Smash could potentially be the most balanced for competitive play.

 

[Solid Samus]

in this thread, Everyone's Favorite Smash Fallacies

Melee wasn't intuitive or accessible
Competitive players don't know how to have fun. Mutually exclusive concepts.
Hardcore players will only accept a Melee redux
Namco and Sakurai don't care about the competitive scene, even when he's throwing them a somewhat misguided (and hopefully subject to change) bone instead of taking the bones away

Not as much as Sakurai apparently.

lolololol

 

[HK-47]

In fact I just want to throw out there that spacies suck, and you should feel bad for playing one.

Fox and Wolf arent that great in Brawl.

 

[Marcel]

lol @ trusting devs with that shit

Implying that the director of the excellent core Kirby games isn't worth trusting. My eyes, they're rolling into the back of my head.

I'd add to that they're the only ones making official new games so yeah, you'll have to live with it. And I would also agree that Sakurai knows more about actual game development than everyone here, myself included.

What if I want to play with no items but with a stage select? Can you show me that mode, please?

We have a product for you and it's called Super Smash Bros. Melee.