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[mrklaw]

A lot of people said the Xbox was designed to both do the operating system switching fast and go down in price quickly. The ESRAM for example is likely go down in price much quicker than GDDR5.

The esram is on the APU - that's why they went with slower, bigger ESRAM rather than a daughter die like on 360 (that way they could have had twice as much, and faster). They wanted a solution that cost reduced more neatly than 360. So it won't drop in cost any faster than sony's APU - you'll get a little bit of cost savings as yields improve, and then a big saving when the process node shrinks (but that will be a while away)

The on chip esram is the most confusing for me. It reduces space for the GPU (so reduces the absolute power of the machine), takes a huge amount of space (because it needs to be ESRAM rather than EDRAM), and still isn't big enough to take 1080p/60 buffers easily.

A daughter die could have had 64MB EDRAM, giving enough space for 1080p/60, and freed up the APU die for more GPU power. That setup could have had the 8GB DDR3 and potentially have been more powerful than PS4, with the downside of being more complex to cost reduce later in the generation


Of course they now have quite a bit of short term pain for those decisions

 

[Dragonborn]

i dont think they really need to do anything at the moment....a majority of the ps4s first party lineup is either delayed or will likely be delayed until next year and the indie stuff they have been releasing has been in word...shithouse

They just need to focus on fixing the horrible UI and get their first party stuff out the door on time and i think they will be in a good position

certainly not number one but not the psvita levels of failure
i have not turned my ps4 on since i completed infamous and my xbone is only turned on to play the odd game of titanfall which im started to get really bored of

Give me some games to play Sony and MS

Other than Driveclub, what's been delayed?

 

[Dizzy]

Nah, it would look too desperate. Matching the price is a possibility though.

 

[bigboss370]

if MS really want a gamechanger, really want to go for the jugular...


drop xbl gold.


i know, won't happen.

 

[travisbickle]

I think Sony will go for MSs throat, with a $5 PSN coupon included in every PS4 and a bump in production numbers.

 

[KingJ2002]

doubtful... a price cut to the current sku would be disastrous for long term plans.


If i were Microsoft and i wanted to get my system a kick in sales

- Create a new standard SKU and remove the kinect... allowing the price to "drop" from 499 to 379.99

- Sweeten the Xbox Live service: Cloud Gaming, Free Games With Gold, Xbox Music Subscription, Cross Platform Play (PC / Mobile / Xbox)

- Announce Kinect TV... a smart box similar to an apple TV except it comes wiith kinect and plays kinect titles through the cloud service. This should be geared toward the casual gamer that has no interest in picking up a controller.

- announce and showcase tons of games from major publishers and xbox ID companies

 

[bunbun777]

Go for the throat? Nah but probably sweep the leg.
They should offer a year of gold with every purchase.

 

[Joe_Incognito]

If they drop the price too low it will devalue the product in the eyes of the consumer. It would also make them look desperate. They don't have any reason to be desperate at this point.

Here's what I would do. I would drop the Kinect and release a bare bones model for $400. Then I'd create a deluxe bundle to keep the original $500 price point. This retains the value of the product in the eyes of the consumer and retailers. It also attacks their rival on two fronts by going high and low.

I do feel Xbox One gives you more for your money, despite perceptions of "weaker" hardware.

 

[gigantor21]

Go for the throat? Nah but probably sweep the leg.

And then get hit by the Crane Kick of a PS4 bundle with a free game!

Seriously, though, it would be hilarious if Sony did that. It'd probably be after E3, though.

 

[family_guy]

And then get hit by the Crane Kick of a PS4 bundle with a free game!

Seriously, though, it would be hilarious if Sony did that. It'd probably be after E3, though.

Would probably be Knack in the bundle though.

 

[Hawk269]

What I don't get is this. Let's say that retailers are dumping the price because the Xbox One is not selling and taking up inventory and is clogging the system. We then have a Supervisor at Best Buy stating that it is the case that inventory is dead and it is not moving so they are going to dump the price and take a hit on it to get rid of it.

Now if your were a business person and you bought a ton of product and it does not sell and clogs up your stock rooms to the degree that you are taking a loss on said product, just because you want to get rid of it, would you buy more of them from the manufacturer?

That is what is odd about some of these people claiming this. If you buy a product for a National retailer to have in all of your stores across the country and that product does not sell and is causing a clog in the system and you take such drastic measures to mark it down, wouldn't you let's say put that in your weekly circular to get the word out? Anyone else find it odd that this has not happened?

And back to my other point, if the Xbox One is such a piece of shit and it sells like shit and you as a retailer are taking a loss on the unit, then why on earth would you, as a retailer go out and buy a shit load of Titanfall bundles to have in your stores? Why would you place even more orders of the standard edition to have in your stores if it is selling so poorly and you are taking a loss on it?

Can anyone explain this to me? It makes no business sense to buy more of the same product and then invest in buying into another of the same product with a game if it is doing so poorly?

 

[N.Domixis]

What I don't get is this. Let's say that retailers are dumping the price because the Xbox One is not selling and taking up inventory and is clogging the system. We then have a Supervisor at Best Buy stating that it is the case that inventory is dead and it is not moving so they are going to dump the price and take a hit on it to get rid of it.

Now if your were a business person and you bought a ton of product and it does not sell and clogs up your stock rooms to the degree that you are taking a loss on said product, just because you want to get rid of it, would you buy more of them from the manufacturer?

That is what is odd about some of these people claiming this. If you buy a product for a National retailer to have in all of your stores across the country and that product does not sell and is causing a clog in the system and you take such drastic measures to mark it down, wouldn't you let's say put that in your weekly circular to get the word out? Anyone else find it odd that this has not happened?

And back to my other point, if the Xbox One is such a piece of shit and it sells like shit and you as a retailer are taking a loss on the unit, then why on earth would you, as a retailer go out and buy a shit load of Titanfall bundles to have in your stores? Why would you place even more orders of the standard edition to have in your stores if it is selling so poorly and you are taking a loss on it?

Can anyone explain this to me? It makes no business sense to buy more of the same product and then invest in buying into another of the same product with a game if it is doing so poorly?

Microsoft is paying retailers to buy their xbox one.

 

[BRocknRolla]

It would be a great idea, and would be the only thing that could interest me in buying an Xbox at this point. (Obviously, I'd be buying it for its future exclusives, but its current price point seems ridiculously high for what you're getting comparative to other options.)

That said, I think that sounds about impossible. I doubt MS sees themselves as much of an underdog, and as such wouldn't go about cutting price deeply or officially. On the other hand, if there are enough smart people at the helm, they might at least get enough people to admit the $100 price gap is significant, and do something about it like dropping Kinect or eating the cost to get price parity. (I have my doubts though that anything like this would happen unless they figure out a way to basically break even. I don't know how long their leash is with the rest of MS these days.)

But below the PS4? A more than $100 price cut, or a $100 price cut with a game? That seems like a bridge too far. But who really knows? Maybe MS will realize how badly they've screwed things up thus far and will fight extra hard to win back all the clout they've lost. We can all dream.

if MS really want a gamechanger, really want to go for the jugular...

drop xbl gold.

Go for the throat? Nah but probably sweep the leg.
They should offer a year of gold with every purchase.

These might seem pie in the sky, but it does hint at a very real problem. The world has changed, and XBLG has become an eyesore. Something needs to be done to improve the value proposition of that service.

 

[KNoon]

I doubt they will do that, but atleast they wont announce a price increase in Canada like Sony.

 

[gigantor21]

Would probably be Knack in the bundle though.

Again!? XD

It'd probably be The Order or Uncharted 4.

 

[mrklaw]

Or will they just go 'fuck it, we're doing ok in the US and UK, other markets never really went for the 360 anyway. Let's keep the price high and be satisfied with good numbers and accept we'll never hit PS4 levels. Meanwhile start work on Xbox Two'

 

[Alchemy]

Well, right now, they're selling the titanfall bundle for $450. I think they could definitely do $349 without the kinect.

Microsoft isn't taking a big hit on TitanFall being bundled in, digital codes aren't expensive to produce especially when they go straight into the box. They're just eating some potential earnings on software sales, but it isn't anywhere close to losing $60 per unit. Also Microsoft isn't the driving force behind the $450 price point, retailers are eating cost to get units off their floor.

 

[HocusPocus]

Microsoft really needs to stop going first with their E3 conference. They serve it up every year for Sony. I don't get the leading the industry bullcrap with going first. They really need to stop making it so easy for them.

 

[Hawk269]

Or will they just go 'fuck it, we're doing ok in the US and UK, other markets never really went for the 360 anyway. Let's keep the price high and be satisfied with good numbers and accept we'll never hit PS4 levels. Meanwhile start work on Xbox Two'

I know that many people have made a comment about MS being more happy with being profitable that being the market leader. I am not sure if that is accurate or not, but both systems were designed to be profitable faster than any other console before them (hence the fact they are neither really cutting edge). Sony does have more to loose if a price war were to happen. Sony is not in a position to take too much of a loss. But what Sony does pretty fantastic is that they are very good at cost reducing their hardware through revisions to save here and there.

In the end, if you are a gamer it is a good time to be one. When we have at least 2 Market leaders duking it out, we as gamers win!

 

[SwiftDeath]

Microsoft isn't taking a big hit on TitanFall being bundled in, digital codes aren't expensive to produce especially when they go straight into the box. They're just eating some potential earnings on software sales, but it isn't anywhere close to losing $60 per unit. Also Microsoft isn't the driving force behind the $450 price point, retailers are eating cost to get units off their floor.

Assuming this is accurate

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/anatomy-of-a-60-dollar-video-game.html

Then I'd say MS is likely paying around $30 or so per TF copy to EA for each TF bundle. Maybe a bit less if they negotiated it better

 

[Hawk269]

Microsoft isn't taking a big hit on TitanFall being bundled in, digital codes aren't expensive to produce especially when they go straight into the box. They're just eating some potential earnings on software sales, but it isn't anywhere close to losing $60 per unit. Also Microsoft isn't the driving force behind the $450 price point, retailers are eating cost to get units off their floor.

Got any proof of this? I find it SHOCKING that if retailers are taking a loss why do they order more units from MS to take even more losses? Does that make sense to anyone? I may not have a business degree or anything, but in my corn feed mind, if I want to make money I don't buy something like a game system from a manufacture and then turn around and sell it at a lost to my customers and then go back and order even more to loose even more money.

 

[Dragonborn]

Got any proof of this? I find it SHOCKING that if retailers are taking a loss why do they order more units from MS to take even more losses? Does that make sense to anyone? I may not have a business degree or anything, but in my corn feed mind, if I want to make money I don't buy something like a game system from a manufacture and then turn around and sell it at a lost to my customers and then go back and order even more to loose even more money.

It doesn't make sense because I'm pretty sure that's not how it works

 

[SRTtoZ]

This doesnt make much sense. The only one who can 'go for the throat' would be Sony since they are the ones crushing it at the moment. MS can however make ground and really surprise people with a price cut/bundle but it wont be anything resembling throat slashing.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

Won't impact global sales as Europe doesn't care for Xbox nor does Asia or South America best I can tell. Australia/NZ seems to fall more PS but hard to tell on that one

I used to think it was quite close here, just from anecdotal experience and from what you see in stores or on the media. Minecraft 360 making it into the top 10 combined charts, etc. With the price difference not so bad here, I thought that maybe the fight would be closer. But I was wrong. Look at the number of likes the PlayStation NZ Facebook page has compared to Xbox NZ. The Xbox One already has bundles that are far superior in value -- Titanfall bundle with Forza 5 for $650ish -- and it's not really helping.

Buuuuut, it's such a small market anyway. It's pretty saturated already. A new release on either platform will top the charts just because of the volumes of everything else moving. Again, look at Minecraft charting. So I'm not sure Microsoft cares. I mean, they can't be bothered with giving the country voice commands. Shame, too, as that's also hurting matters; it's seen as the crappier console where the one redeeming feature doesn't even work.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I used to think it was quite close here, just from anecdotal experience and from what you see in stores or on the media. Minecraft 360 making it into the top 10 combined charts, etc. With the price difference not so bad here, I thought that maybe the fight would be closer. But I was wrong. Look at the number of likes the PlayStation NZ Facebook page has compared to Xbox NZ. The Xbox One already has bundles that are far superior in value -- Titanfall bundle with Forza 5 for $650ish -- and it's not really helping.

Buuuuut, it's such a small market anyway. It's pretty saturated already. A new release on either platform will top the charts just because of the volumes of everything else moving. Again, look at Minecraft charting. So I'm not sure Microsoft cares. I mean, they can't be bothered with giving the country voice commands. Shame, too, as that's also hurting matters; it's seen as the crappier console where the one redeeming feature doesn't even work.

Yes it seems to me like Australia and New Zealand have both moved towards PS4 as the majority. I assume XB1 is still selling okay there but I think PS4 is selling better, not certain on how much although as you suggested the charts seem to suggest it's a somewhat significant amount more.

It's a pity MS seems as US-centric as they are. They've gotten somewhat better [more 50hz options for UK market, TV guide for UK market] but otherwise it seems they haven't spent much time on other markets. Not that Sony seems too active in Australia/New Zealand though :\

Pity really

 

[Militant17]

MS need to create a new SKU, drop the HDD as well as Kinect and price the thing at $349.

If they allow us to use external HDD's (which they've said they will) then the lack of a pre installed hard drive is not an issue.

 

[KingJ2002]

Got any proof of this? I find it SHOCKING that if retailers are taking a loss why do they order more units from MS to take even more losses? Does that make sense to anyone? I may not have a business degree or anything, but in my corn feed mind, if I want to make money I don't buy something like a game system from a manufacture and then turn around and sell it at a lost to my customers and then go back and order even more to loose even more money.

That's how it works.

A retailer like bestbuy can afford to subsidize the price of consoles by covering it from costs of other appliances and product where they have a bigger profit margin. GameStop also can match due to their net gains through the pre-owned market.

It's the reason why companies like BestBuy can still exist while stores like CompUSA and Circuit City all but died out

Overall there is a way to cover cost to move a stinker our the door. Microsoft just has to play it safe due to the fact that if their system doesn't move as much as they quote... retailers will buy less and give them less of a marketing budget to work with (Joint marketing campaigns, TV ad buys, in store marketing, online ... all that comes from retailers and publishers... with the retailer footing most of the bill if they believe the product will move enough to give them a sizable ROI).

Xbox One is selling well... but if you forecast higher then you're SOL even if your making a profit. Retailers will want your head on a platter.

Look at the Wii U.

Microsoft is tasked not only by retailers but also by their investors to right the ship and e3 is one of the many platforms in which they can do so... to get people excited for the holiday.

This is where demand planners and MP&A teams guage interest and work with Retail teams to make sure they move as many hardware units and pre-orders of fluff editions (super collectible edition, hardened edition, raping your wallet edition) as they can to ensure that when the winter rolls around. Microsoft has top billing on the floor.

If they don't this year... well... expect the Xbox One retail space in stores to shrink a bit in 2015.

 

[Trojan]

Got any proof of this? I find it SHOCKING that if retailers are taking a loss why do they order more units from MS to take even more losses? Does that make sense to anyone? I may not have a business degree or anything, but in my corn feed mind, if I want to make money I don't buy something like a game system from a manufacture and then turn around and sell it at a lost to my customers and then go back and order even more to loose even more money.

I don't have proof of that happening in this case, but this is fairly commonplace in the retail industry. I work at HQ for a major retailer and everything comes down to allocating the appropriate space for high margin items. XBONE was allocated a significant amount of shelf space and inventory quantity on the back end. When retailers see significant excess inventory and shelf space allotted for an item that is not selling to potential, they will enact sales to clear that merchandise and shelf space for the next deal that produces better margins.

 

[J-Rzez]

To say "go for the throat" means to finish something off. Unfortunately for MS, Sony is in the position to "go for the throat" (though they won't via pricing).

Sony has the hardware advantage, price advantage, and first part advantage. Sony is also the master of hardware hardware revisions. They also have mind share and momentum. If MS could come back and kill Sony, it would be something rarely seen before.

They need a massive price reduction and exclusives at this point, things Sony can have/do as well.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Speaking of which...

Wario64 20m
Titanfall Xbox One $40 at Toys R Us 4/18 - 4/19, also part of B1G1 40% off

What the heck...biggest game of the year (so far) and its getting discounted sales so quickly.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Speaking of which...

What the heck...biggest game of the year (so far) and its getting discounted sales so quickly.

As I've said before and I'll say again if you bought a XB1 for TF before now, then you would've already bought it.

If you are looking to buy an XB1 currently for TF, then you buy a TF bundle.

In essence the TF bundle of XB1 really kills the demand for the standalone SKU of the game.

It is entirely unsurprising that the game standalone is being discounted imo

 

[BigDaddyFatSack]

Considering how MS and retailers sold the system at $390 ($450 Titanfall bundle), yeah. You could definitely expect MS to drop the price to move more units. If they don't do this, they will fall way behind.

 

[Freeman]

MS is the gazelle going for the Lions throat.

 

[A_Gorilla]

I had an XBox One, couldn't help looking at it and thinking I paid $500 for this...

So I ended up returning it for a PS4. Wouldn't pay more than $350 for one with kinect included $299 without.

Just look at the engineering and care Sony put into the PS4. I can see where my $400 went. Also with PS4 you get to feel that GDDR5.

Goddamn, I know MS was dead set on not having another RRoD incident but that huge-ass fan looks like overkill...

 

[Biker19]

Depends on how much of a bath Microsoft is willing to take on every console sold.

The shareholders will take some convincing, I bet.

Especially when you read something like this.

 

[grosvenor_92]

I could see them matching the price of the ps4 but not going cheaper at least not yet anyway

 

[Animator]

Meanwhile in Canada.....

 

[Principate]

They really should it's the only logical solution in their key countries (uk and us), it's now with the price cut outselling the PS4 (which is in stock) in amazon.co.uk, something I previously deemed almost impossible considering the demand.

The price really matters and it's the major thing that's hurting it.

 

[Iacobellis]

I think Sony will go for MSs throat, with a $5 PSN coupon included in every PS4 and a bump in production numbers.

$5 coupon? That's chump change, especially when you account for the free games we get each month.

 

[LilWayneSuckz]

No. There is profit (scratch that, revenue) to be made at $399. Undercutting it further than that would be a moneypit for the division and they seem to already plunged billions into the XB1 on marketing, moneyhatting, publishing, and hardware design, they don't want to do anymore damage.

At $399 (with Kinect) they have the value proposition, and need to present that to the consumer.

If they sell less than the PS4 at $399 then that's when they need to consider unbundling the Kinect and dropping the price to $299

 

[Haunted]

"go for Sony's throat" implies that they're in a position to do so.

Microsoft undercutting Sony's price would be more like someone on the ground desperately clawing at the guy standing on his chest.

 

[Rolf NB]

MS is the gazelle going for the Lions throat.

Whatever happened to salmons and bears?

 

[Chettlar]

Goddamn, I know MS was dead set on not having another RRoD incident but that huge-ass fan looks like overkill...

It's not just to avoid RRoD. It's also to make it as quiet as physically feasible. Apparantly, it works really well.

The PS4, on the other hand, can get fairly noisy, at least for a piece of hardware in 2014. The Xbox is silent as a tomb, is what I've heard people say.

 

[joecanada]

$399 with Kinect, $299 without.
War over.

Nope cuz a 349 ps4 would still compete just fine. Unless by war over you mean ms profits

 

[TomShoe]

Whatever happened to salmons and bears?

We all saw how well that worked out.

 

[Fox Mulder]

If they drop the price too low it will devalue the product in the eyes of the consumer. It would also make them look desperate. They don't have any reason to be desperate at this point.

Here's what I would do. I would drop the Kinect and release a bare bones model for $400. Then I'd create a deluxe bundle to keep the original $500 price point. This retains the value of the product in the eyes of the consumer and retailers. It also attacks their rival on two fronts by going high and low.

I do feel Xbox One gives you more for your money, despite perceptions of "weaker" hardware.

they can't look desperate, but then must drop Kinect? I hate Kinect, but they'd have to do UI tweaks and it's at least something unique they'll eventually have games for.

they need to just match the $400 price and toss in a game. Retailers have been doing deals like $450 with a game for weeks now and titanfall apparently didn't set the world on fire or they would be bragging about it.

$400 would make it easier to look past its faults and like it for what it is. It'll still get good games, but $500 is obviously not working.

 

[Biker19]

I don't agree, I think Sony went as low as they could.

With PS4 you also get to feel that no games and 3rd party lagging behind affordable PC performance from Day One. Nice piece of hardware, tho...could see myself rubbing one out if I shared your fetish.

LMAO...I'm just bursting out with laughter right now.

 

[sublimit]

I expect a 50$ price cut without removing kinect.If they removed it they could probably drop the price to 100$ less but i think MS's ego is way to big to admit that their forced XB1-Kinect combo has been a failure.At least for now.
They have also invested a huge amount of money to push kinect's implementation and usage by developers in their games ever since 2010 so i don't think they would be willing to give up on that investment just yet.So i think a 50$ price cut seems more logical for the time being.

 

[Alchemy]

I don't have proof of that happening in this case, but this is fairly commonplace in the retail industry. I work at HQ for a major retailer and everything comes down to allocating the appropriate space for high margin items. XBONE was allocated a significant amount of shelf space and inventory quantity on the back end. When retailers see significant excess inventory and shelf space allotted for an item that is not selling to potential, they will enact sales to clear that merchandise and shelf space for the next deal that produces better margins.

And when one retailer does it, many will follow. A lot of retailers have price matching guarantees and no one wants to be outsold by competitors, especially on an item eating up shelf space.

 

[molnizzle]

$399 is the lowest Xbone goes in 2014, and likely without a Kinect or pack-in game. They'll match Sony but they can't afford to undercut at this point due to their prohibitively expensive engineering choices. Sony won't undercut this year either because they don't need to. They'd be turning down free profit that they desperately need. Unless Xbone starts outselling PS4 in the US, both consoles will be $399 until mid-2015 at the earliest.