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Angry Joe gets called out by IGNs review editor for misquoting their Titanfall review

M

MikeXXIeaf

Banned
Kintaro said:
Joe, I don't follow you on YT. However, I went ahead and watched your Titalfall review for kicks. I have to ask a question.

Why do you feel it necessary to slam other websites reviews and criticisms in order to support your own within a review? It doesn't do anything to help you make a point. It only serves to undermine your own words and opinions on the same game. Do you do this with all of your other reviews as well? Say what you will about these outlets, they don't do around attempting to discredit their competitors in their versions of reviews. Why do you stoop to this?

There is always a time and a place to criticism gaming outlets overly high scores, but within your own review isn't really one of them.
Click to expand...
It's common knowledge at this point that reviewers overrated TitanFall based on hype. Many people feel that it's an underwhelming experience compared to the amount of praise reviewers gave it. They should be called out on this, it's not fair to gamers who just want an honest opinion.
 
A

antitrop

Member
Coolade said:
I actually wish more people did this. After seeing all of the high praise for say NBA2k 14 from every outlet, I wish someone had called out other reviewers for how bad and broken that game actually is, and how it's nothing but micro transaction hell. I have no problem with it. In the case of titanfall, if you're getting misinformation from other sources, what's the problem with noting it? If you can't take some outside criticism for your opinion as a "game journalist" then whats the point of having open forums of conversation.
Click to expand...
What misinformation about Titanfall?

All I see is different people valuing a game differently. Some people value "fun" (IGN), some people value breadth of content (Joe).

Joe was being ridiculous in his review, calling out other people that don't value games the same way he does, as if value is somehow universal.
 
T

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
This makes me like IGN a bit less, lol @ 8.9 not being 9. Ridiculous. AngryJoe didn't even misquote them. However, I find it hilarious that Stapleton was SOOO adamant that they didn't give Titanfall a 9. Really seemed to be over-reacting.
 
T

Tinfoilhatsron

Banned
marrec said:
Do you have a question? I think I'm pretty clear. Joe decided to publicly get into a slap fight with Dan Stapleton. I think a measured response would have been more advisable.
Click to expand...
Nah I'm just being a tool implying Dan wouldn't understand what a classy reply is. Uh but I guess I look like an idiot junior.
 
D

danwarb

Member
Dan Stapleton is in the right in the twitter exchange. Joe comes across as a buffoon, unwilling to acknowledge what was either a mistake or deliberate misrepresentation of a review.

There's nothing wrong with IGN's review of that game at least.
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
Coolade said:
I actually wish more people did this. After seeing all of the high praise for say NBA2k 14 from every outlet, I wish someone had called out other reviewers for how bad and broken that game actually is, and how it's nothing but micro transaction hell. I have no problem with it. In the case of titanfall, if you're getting misinformation from other sources, what's the problem with noting it? If you can't take some outside criticism for your opinion as a "game journalist" then whats the point of having open forums of conversation.
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It has no place in a review. A review is for your opinion of a game, not your opinion on other peoples opinion of a game. You could make an entire video dedicated to it and it would get the point across far better.
 
C

Chaos17

Member
nelchaar said:
Angry Joe is at fault here. He clearly misrepresented IGN by implying that a quote in the preview appeared in the review.

The argument about 0.1 pts if cursory to the discussion and pointless.

Also, the personal attacks on Dan Stapleton are embarrassing. IGN have a right to complain. Not only that, they can actually sue him.
Click to expand...
We didn't read the same story, did we ?

End people tend to forget, Joe IS NOT a professional, he doesn't have license, he isn't invited by the pro (did you how he was alone when he tried to talk to Microsoft last year during EA?), etc...
He is just a guy who loves games with passion and who share it with the world and I respect that a lot.
Instead with have a "real" journalism who is bargaining for a 0.1 point.
 
M

marrec

Banned
Tinfoilhatsron said:
Nah I'm just being a tool implying Dan wouldn't understand what a classy reply is. Uh but I guess I look like an idiot junior.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, he'd think he won or something... but you shouldn't be Classy because that'd change Dan's mind, you should be classy because there are tens of thousands of people watching you throw poop at Dan.

Now Dan's covered in poop, but you also smell like shit and everyone knows it.
 
L

LX_Theo

Banned
Coolade said:
I actually wish more people did this. After seeing all of the high praise for say NBA2k 14 from every outlet, I wish someone had called out other reviewers for how bad and broken that game actually is, and how it's nothing but micro transaction hell. I have no problem with it. In the case of titanfall, if you're getting misinformation from other sources, what's the problem with noting it? If you can't take some outside criticism for your opinion as a "game journalist" then whats the point of having open forums of conversation.
Click to expand...

Its horribly unprofessional. Both sides are opinions and stuff like what Joe does is just putting his opinion on the throne for king of the hill.

As much as some people like to not trust reviews because they don't like the review not portraying their own opinion, they are still legitimate opinions. Mudslinging at other's opinions as a reviewer yourself is much the definition of unprofessional.

The criticism is saved for places like here, where the readers compare and contrast rather than the participants. Shoot, throw it in a different video dedicated to the issue if its that important to the person, even.
 
S

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
Yeah, this has just proved more than ever that both sides were equal dicks.

Anihawk said:
twitter is one of the best things of all time. amazing how people routinely make complete asses out of themselves with such a small character limit.
Click to expand...

I know, right? It's like Penny Arcade's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory, minus the all-important "anonymity" element.
 
T

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
MikeXXIeaf said:
It's common knowledge at this point that reviewers overrated TitanFall based on hype. Many people feel that it's an underwhelming experience compared to the amount of praise reviewers gave it. They should be called out on this, it's not fair to gamers who just want an honest opinion.
Click to expand...

What? Are you serious?
 
K

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Coolade said:
I actually wish more people did this. After seeing all of the high praise for say NBA2k 14 from every outlet, I wish someone had called out other reviewers for how bad and broken that game actually is, and how it's nothing but micro transaction hell. I have no problem with it. In the case of titanfall, if you're getting misinformation from other sources, what's the problem with noting it? If you can't take some outside criticism for your opinion as a "game journalist" then whats the point of having open forums of conversation.
Click to expand...

Criticism is fine, but doing it within the framework of your own review is not the place. Put the criticism in the propor place and it holds more weight. Using it to support your own opinion "They're opinion sucks. Mine is better! My score is...!" is low.

MikeXXIeaf said:
It's common knowledge at this point that reviewers overrated TitanFall based on hype. Many people feel that it's an underwhelming experience compared to the amount of praise reviewers gave it. They should be called out on this, it's not fair to gamers who just want an honest opinion.
Click to expand...

A game review is not the time or place. If you want to be fair to gamers, their your review should do that without resorting to bush league tactics.
 
D

DocSeuss

Member
People only picking up on the 8.9 vs 9 distinction are like an observer talking to guy who has a paper cut and a gunshot wound, then laughing at the guy for saying he's in pain, because a paper cut isn't a big deal.

Idiots, in other words.

antitrop said:
What misinformation about Titanfall?

All I see is different people valuing a game differently. Some people value "fun" (IGN), some people value breadth of content (Joe).

Joe was being ridiculous in his review, calling out other people that don't value games the same way he does, as if value is somehow universal.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone was doing any misinformation here, but Joe, like all the "angry" gamer types (it's really an awful practice), seems to use 'calling out the industry' as a tactic. I mean, most of the people I know who like him do so because of a perceived conflict between him and the gaming industry, as if he's somehow unafraid to tell the 'truth' about games that the industry won't.

Calling out people for game review disagreements isn't cool or good, but it gets him his hits.
 
U

Uncle Rupee

Banned
TIL you can say anything in a preview, and nobody can ever quote you, unless it appears on the game's box.
Especially when the preview is written with the game's dick in the author's mouth, essentially telling readers to not bother waiting for the review and to just pre-order the game now.

Also, an 8.9 is nowhere near the same ballpark as a 9.0. The difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 is so huge that to compare the two is a cardinal sin. Never mind that mathematicians say 0.99999999 can essentially be considered a 1.
 
T

Tookay

Member
That aren't many gaming personalities I dislike, but Angry Joe is one of them.

The schtick is tired, the conflation angle is scummy and manipulative, and the inability to admit (or even understand) what he did wrong is probably the most disappointing.

Though Dan should have been more professional and not let it go on as long as he did.
 
Muffdraul

Muffdraul

Member
If anything, this only serves as yet another case illustrating that review scores are stupid in general. Personally, I get that 8.9 does not equal 9. But the fact that so many people don't is telling.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
danwarb said:
Dan Stapleton is in the right in the twitter exchange. Joe comes across as a buffoon, unwilling to acknowledge what was either a mistake or deliberate misrepresentation of a review.

There's nothing wrong with IGN's review of that game at least.
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure that Joe intentionally did it, but his refusal to acknowledge that maybe he should have added some context, or directed some displeasure at the publisher for misusing the quote instead of leaving it facing IGN is pretty sad.

But IGN going HAM over .1 as if its any big difference at all is equally sad so....

family_guy said:
They are both right and wrong for different reasons.
Click to expand...


This basically.
 
M

MakeMeFeelAlive

Member
So, a guy from IGN thought his site was dissed unprofessionally, and showed his distaste for it, by acting unprofessionally? I don't care for Joe, nor IGN.I visit IGN, and I generally don't watch Joe or read about him. But this is ridiculous. He was stating how the game has been over hyped and reviews are inflated. If IGN wants to take issue with that, hen so be it. I agree they should have responded to Joe in a more professional manner. That being said, IGN themselves are playing with semantics. They hyped up this game for months, since shown on E3, and then score it 8.9 (as if .1 is really any different) and then they take issue for being described as being a company who hyped the game. I call BS on all of it.
 
N

nelchaar

Member
Chaos17 said:
We didn't read the same story, did we ?
Click to expand...

You simple cannot misrepresent someone's point of view by putting up a quote from a preview, and imply that it was in the review.

That being said, I just saw Angry Joe's post here on GAF, and Mr. Stapleton behaved abhorrently. He is right. If IGN has a problem with what he said, they should have contacted him directly via email, in a calm rational manner.

In any case, this sounds like grade school playground drama.
 
D

DocSeuss

Member
Uncle Rupee said:
TIL you can say anything in a preview, and nobody can ever quote you. Especially when the preview is written with the game's dick in the author's mouth, essentially telling readers to not bother waiting for the review and to just pre-order the game now.

Also, an 8.9 is nowhere near the same ballpark as a 9.0. The difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 is so huge that to compare the two is a cardinal sin. Never mind that mathematicians say 0.99999999 can essentially be considered a 1.
Click to expand...

Uh, no.

But what you do is you show the preview. And you say "preview."

CITE. YOUR. SOURCES. In case that wasn't clear. By not citing his sources, Joe conflates the words of the previews department with the words of the reviews department. Dan's department is not the previews department.

It's a big deal. Fixating on the score thing is missing the point.
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
Valkerionseven said:
Twitter argument about someone I don't know and someone I don't like. Slow news day -checks miley's twitter-
Click to expand...

thanks for the useful addition to the topic.

sure both are in the wrong in some cases. the difference is joe doesn't represent a corporation. IGN needs to let the PR do it's thing not some butthurt guy.
 
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
RoKKeR said:
Also this. I have become increasingly annoyed more than anything by games media recently. There are some outliers but overall it all just feels so shallow.

@NeoGAFNewThread is about all of the games coverage I need.
Click to expand...

I can get regurgitated news from gaf, if I actually need to see what the news is about, I'll check the link from the thread which will give a click to the original article. We don't need these sites
 
U

unbias

Member
antitrop said:
Joe's Titanfall review was an embarrassing outlier. Usually, his content is of much higher quality than that.

Like I said before, it's just Joe being upset that other people don't share his same values in what a video game is worth.
Click to expand...

As someone who enjoys Titanfall, the game itself is an outlier, the insane amount of hype the game got was staggeringly suspect. It was embarrassing how a lot fo the sites fawned over the game. Calling other publications out, while maybe not professional, was a good thing, imo, due to the insane praise the game got even before coming out.

DocSeuss said:
Yes. He literally did what they taught us in J-school not to do. By posting the IGN review, he's conflating it improperly. It's a kind of tactic guys like Fox News use. Talk about something objectionable, and post a picture of something not related so you can encourage the audience to draw connections. It's a huge problem in journalism, and an immediate flat that the person in question is full of crap.

Do I think Dan handled it well? NOPE. But I can at least understand why he's upset. His work is being called into question, and Joe's spreading misinformation about it.

Joe, on the flip side, had literally no reason to do what he did other than just capitalize on generic hate for IGN. One's performing scummy journalism, the other's upset about that. Dan absolutely should have reached out and said "hey, Joe, I have a problem with this."

I consider someone who's sloppy and too arrogant to apologize for his sloppiness way worse than someone who's been offended when their work's been called into question.



A) don't know the other guy in question, don't read IGN at all
B) actually care a great deal about good journalism, and am easily frustrated by people who mess up AND THEN DON'T OWN UP TO THAT (see: Polygon's reaction to SimCity. Joe's doing the same thing here)
C) Calling someone a whiny, angry child isn't the low-road when they're being a whiny, angry child. It's calling out bad behavior.

Preaching to the choir would be preaching to people who agree with me.
Click to expand...

OR maybe he used it to point out the insanely embarrassing and gushing praise a lot of these outlets had for the game, in the previews? In that case, him highlighting this, while talking about the reviews, imo, is warranted.

What they are doing IS NOT journalism, it is game criticism. These guys are not fucking journalists by most standards. Critics are not journalists. And IGN does no better then Joe when it comes to commentary. And when I said preaching to the choir, it just your entire rant comes off more as an ego stroke then telling Joe a thing or 2 on how to be a games critic.
 
V

VariantX

Member
danwarb said:
Dan Stapleton is in the right in the twitter exchange. Joe comes across as a buffoon, unwilling to acknowledge what was either a mistake or deliberate misrepresentation of a review.

There's nothing wrong with IGN's review of that game at least.
Click to expand...

No one is right here. There NEVER should have been a Twitter exchange in the first place.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
I like how the IGN guy says they have 4X the followers, yet Joe gets way more views and likes on the same review.

How embarrassing.
 
M

MikeXXIeaf

Banned
TechnicPuppet said:
What? Are you serious?
Click to expand...
Am I wrong? I'm not saying it's a bad game, but from those I know who actively play the game, underwhelming accurately describes the experience. Something can't underwhelm unless high expectations were set for it. Who sets high expectations through previews and reviews? Sites like IGN.
 
A

antitrop

Member
GavinUK86 said:
lol, bloody hell. i hope that's sarcasm.
Click to expand...

Couldn't possibly be more serious. Joe puts far more time and effort into his content than most reviewers, and I find him to be incredibly entertaining.

I don't take his opinions as gospel, though, he's just another voice in the ocean. I do think the actual production values of his content are leaps and bounds over everyone else.

I think someone's worth is far more than just if I generally agree with their opinions or not.

I think Joe generally does a better job of explaining his viewpoint than most reviews, even if I may disagree with him.

Except for his Titanfall review, that was just cheap ad-hominem tactics.
 
U

Uncle Rupee

Banned
CaptainAhab said:
The Internet is a place where we argue about the journalistic merits of a youtube user named Angry Joe.
Click to expand...

This would normally be a non-issue for IGN, but they only have between 3 and 4 times the number of YouTube subscribers as Angry Joe. Yet for some reason they like to brag about that like it's a good thing. It's all very strange.
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
unbias said:
As someone who enjoys Titanfall, the game itself is an outlier, the insane amount of hype the game got was staggeringly suspect. It was embarrassing how a lot fo the sites fawned over the game. Calling other publications out, while maybe not professional, was a good thing, imo, due to the insane praise the game got even before coming out.



OR maybe he used it to point out the insanely embarrassing and gushing praise a lot of these outlets had for the game, in the previews? In that case, him highlighting this, while talking about the reviews, imo, is warranted.

What they are doing IS NOT journalism, it is game criticism. These guys are not fucking journalists by most standards. Critics are not journalists. And IGN does no better then Joe when it comes to commentary. And when I said preaching to the choir, it just your entire rant comes off more as an ego stroke then telling Joe a thing or 2 on how to be a games critic.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
G

GobFather

Member
DocSeuss said:
Uh, no.

But what you do is you show the preview. And you say "preview."

CITE. YOUR. SOURCES. In case that wasn't clear. By not citing his sources, Joe conflates the words of the previews department with the words of the reviews department. Dan's department is not the previews department.

It's a big deal. Fixating on the score thing is missing the point.
Click to expand...

The same guy wrote the preview and the review, no?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/22/i-played-titanfall-and
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/10/titanfall-review-2?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
MikeXXIeaf said:
Am I wrong? I'm not saying it's a bad game, but from those I know who actively play the game, underwhelming accurately describes the experience. Something can't underwhelm unless high expectations were set for it. Who sets high expectations through previews and reviews? Sites like IGN.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree on TF. It kind of fizzled out for me.
 
S

Super Nothing

Member
pooptest said:
If they feel that the difference between 1/10th when it changes the whole # is THAT significant, then why not make it an actual 10-point scale and ditch the decimal entirely. If 8.0 or 8.99999999 has a different definition than 9.0, then what's the point of the # after the decimal anyways with that kind of rating system.
Click to expand...

Clearly the way the scale works is that 9 = amazing and 8 = great. Obviously, 8.9 = amazing great, which is better than great but still less than amazing. Glad I could help.
 
A

antitrop

Member
MikeXXIeaf said:
Am I wrong? I'm not saying it's a bad game, but from those I know who actively play the game, underwhelming accurately describes the experience. Something can't underwhelm unless high expectations were set for it. Who sets high expectations through previews and reviews? Sites like IGN.
Click to expand...

I think the 86 Metascore is pretty reasonable. It shows that the game is generally a great experience, but fails to live up to the prestigious quality that was set by something like CoD4 or MW2 (both 94 on MC).

So, basically, the Metascore accurately represents the quality of Titanfall, while leaving a lot of room for improvement in the sequel (which most people agree where Titanfall will really come into its own).
 
U

Uncle Rupee

Banned
Why can't game journalists just admit that Titanfall got so much hype because of the Respawn / Infinity Ward / Activision debacle?

It's so obvious they were hyping the shit out of this game regardless of its shortcomings because they wanted to see the guys at Respawn "stick it to the man".
 
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