Support NeoGAF

[Apophis2036]

The Dreamcast was selling fine while it was going, it was Sega that couldn't afford to support it any longer.

The Wii U is selling low but it is still selling consistently each month 70-80k in the US....it's not good but people are slowing buying it. After the Wii U's 5 year life, it will should have over 20 million consoles sold similar to what Gamecube did.

Let's be generous and say WiiU is selling 150 000 per month Worldwide (80k North America / 30k Japan / 40k EU). That is just 1.8 million per year, let's be generous and call it 2.5 million per year with the Holiday bumps added in.

WiiU has currently sold around 5 million units. Add on 2.5 million per year for the next four years and it will finish on 15 million units and that is the best case scenario. It could be much worse than that when Nintendo all but stops support in late 2015 when their developers are concentrating on making games / experiences for the new handheld and QoL.

Gamecube numbers look way out of reach at this point...

 

[rudieboy77]

Sega did what Nintenwont...

 

[Celine]

Jesus christ. People are still spreading this a news? The DC might have been discontinied March 2001, but it didn't magically stop selling on that same day.
And the 5.8 million wiiu is up to december 2013.

DC was at 5.55M in March/april 2000 and about 6.5M when it was discontinued.

Dreamcast sold a total of 5.98 million machines worldwide. The geography breakout is 1.95
million in Japan, 2.70 million sold-in in the U.S., 930,000 in Europe, and 290,000 in Asia by
September 30, 2000. The current number of Dreamcast that have been registered online are:
750,000 in Japan, 400,000 in North America and 400,000 in Europe, totaling 1.55 million
worldwide by October 27, 2000

Building upon this strategy, Sega is targeting the cumulative total of 10 million Dreamcasts
and the online membership of over 3 million subscribers worldwide by the end of this fiscal year.

http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/release/pdf/past/sega/2001/20001027e.pdf

 

[Shaanyboi]

I don't condone those kinds of posts but it seems Nintendo fans seem oblivious to subjective nature associated to gamer tastes. Not everyone wants to play the latest Mario or Zelda. Not everyone wants to play another Donkey Kong or Mario Kart. And judging from the sales so far... most people don't.

That's still not what defines a "shitty" game, especially when the first-party games in question have received extremely high praise.

 

[outunderthestars]

Your demands are unreasonable. You want it for the price of a new 4GB 360 PLUS 1 or 2 $60 games packed in AND extra controllers. You're basically asking that the console be free. That's ridiculous.

I think he was saying that he would buy a Wii u at $199, then would buy games and a controller and what not. That that he wants a $199 console that had the games and extra controller.


That said, Nintendo clearly needs to do something to stimulate demand. Staying the course isn't working.

 

[ironcreed]

Different tastes doesn't mean shitty.

I'm not a big fan of RTS, but I'm not gonna go call Starcraft shitty.

Pretty much.

Hell, I am not even a huge fan of Nintendo's first party anymore and have not been for years. But I have played so many gritty, realistic games (and still love those) that I feel like I am coming full circle and kind of want to experience some of Nintendo's old charm again for a change of pace. I'll have an Xbox One for all of the third party blockbusters, etc. I am just longing for something on the other side of the spectrum to balance that out this time around.

 

[RagnarokX]

I think he was saying that he would buy a Wii u at $199, then would buy games and a controller and what not. That that he wants a $199 console that had the games and extra controller.

That's better, but $200 with Mario Kart for free is still ridiculous.

 

[Riki]

So, even though we know that the information is incorrect, who's taking bets on the title never being changed.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Nintendo currently hold about 180 billion yen in unsold inventory... a large chunk of that is presumably Wii U finished goods.You caught me before my edit. They're neither pros nor cons ultimately in this context, they're essentially irrelevant if they're not creating consumer value. They're just a list of bulletpoints.

It's like writing:
Two analog sticks.
OLED screen.
Back touchpad.
Indie games.

And insisting the Vita offers a compelling value proposition, when it clearly doesn't as evidenced by its lack of sales.

Uh oh. If you stir that nest, then there will be two sets of apologists shouting in this thread.


Ah, you edited to include sales.

 

[shinra-bansho]

DC was at 5.55M in March/april 2000.

Something is weird with SEGA's old annual reports. They state 5.55M at FY3-00 report, but in the next annual report they say LTD is 8.2M, which doesn't add up with the sales in between the two reports.

 

[Baby Milo]

dreamcast was an amazing console : (

 

[ironcreed]

Nintendo currently hold about 180 billion yen in unsold inventory... a large chunk of that is presumably Wii U finished goods.You caught me before my edit. They're neither pros nor cons ultimately in this context, they're essentially irrelevant if they're not creating consumer value. They're just a list of bulletpoints.

It's like writing:
Two analog sticks.
OLED screen.
Back touchpad.
Indie games.

And insisting the Vita offers a compelling value proposition, when it clearly doesn't as evidenced by its lack of sales.

So a cheaper price, no subscription model, HD games that can run in 1080p/60 FPS and backwards compatibility cannot be considered pros? Sorry, I just don't agree. These are pros for the system, regardless if it is selling like shit.

 

[atr0cious]

Something is weird with SEGA's old annual reports. They state 5.55M at FY3-00 report, but in the next annual report they say LTD is 8.2M, which doesn't add up with the sales in between the two reports.

Maybe they're including the OG xbox as 1/5 a sale?

 

[outunderthestars]

Uh oh. If you stir that nest, then there will be two sets of apologists shouting in this thread.


Ah, you edited to include sales.

I love my Vita, but sales of the platform prove that it is not a compelling product for most people.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Wii U needs a price drop. Not $99, but like $199

 

[baphomet]

Your demands are unreasonable. You want it for the price of a new 4GB 360 PLUS 1 or 2 $60 games packed in AND extra controllers. You're basically asking that the console be free. That's ridiculous. They were already taking a loss at $350

Well until then, the 360 with no games is a much better value than the Wii u.

 

[BundysFeet]

So, even though we know that the information is incorrect, who's taking bets on the title never being changed.

Or perhaps there are no mods in this thread? No need to act as though there is some outright anti-Nintendo sentiment from the moderation team here.

 

[RagnarokX]

Well until then, the 360 with no games is a much better value than the Wii u.

Not really. Wii U is a new and more powerful console with backwards compatibility and a bunch of high-quality games and more on the way. If you're an enthusiast you most likely already have a 360 and/or a PS3 so the comparison is moot since you wouldn't be in the market for either anyway and owning one or the other narrows their value down to their exclusives. The web browser is also ace.

 

[Oddduck]

Some people have different and unrealistic standards.

The Wii U is a beast compared to the Wii.

Anyone that thought that Nintendo wanted to compete directly with the other two on a hardware level haven't been paying attention lately.

No, they paid attention.

They just didn't like what they saw. And this resulted in Wii U's abysmal sales.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

So a cheaper price, no subscription model, HD games that can run in 1080p/60 FPS and backwards compatibility cannot be considered pros? Sorry, I just don't agree. These are pros for the system, regardless if it is selling like shit.

Only one game runs at 1080/60 on Wii U and its Rayman Legends.

We have Smash, but that is unreleased.

You're pretty much reaching at that point.

 

[Juno]

I love how some people seem to sit behind the excuse that the WiiU is fine and it's a different situation because Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash.

Nintendo are a business and decisions are made based on numbers and performance. End of.

They're not going to keep pumping money into a machine that's failing just because they can afford to...

 

[ironcreed]

Only one game runs at 1080/60 on Wii U and its Rayman Legends.

We have Smash, but that is unreleased.

You're pretty much reaching at that point.

I am simply saying that it can, man. That's it.

 

[DNAbro]

I love how some people seem to sit behind the excuse that the WiiU is fine and it's a different situation because Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash.

Nintendo are a business and decisions are made based on numbers and performance. End of.

They're not going to keep pumping money into a machine that's failing just because they can afford to...

and they aren't going to abandon a product when they don't have a replacement ready.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I love how some people seem to sit behind the excuse that the WiiU is fine and it's a different situation because Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash.

Nintendo are a business and decisions are made based on numbers and performance. End of.

They're not going to keep pumping money into a machine that's failing just because they can afford to...

If it's better for their longterm reputation, they should.

Of course they are probably flipping over tables behind closed doors but sometimes the answer isn't quitting.

 

[IrishNinja]

god, the only thing worse than people unaware of the quality of the DC's library are those honestly saying nintendo should bail on the system. nobody that can afford to should, it destroys dev & consumer confidence, however meager you may have those right now (making them thereby even more precious a commodity).

This is pretty apt, actually.

enzo, don't be that person here

Phoenician_Viking
Please listen.

haha tag-worthy

 

[Taker666]

Wii U needs a price drop. Not $99, but like $199

I'd argue that they should keep the price the same but budget an extra $50 million-$100 million in marketing for each million machines sold....or invest it in more high profile software. Cutting the price will do nothing without marketing and the right software.

 

[JoeM86]

I love how some people seem to sit behind the excuse that the WiiU is fine and it's a different situation because Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash.

Nintendo are a business and decisions are made based on numbers and performance. End of.

They're not going to keep pumping money into a machine that's failing just because they can afford to...

For Nintendo to drop the Wii U long before its successor is ready would be even more detrimental to the business than keeping the Wii U along with its low sales.

 

[baphomet]

Not really. Wii U is a new and more powerful console with backwards compatibility and a bunch of high-quality games and more on the way. If you're an enthusiast you most likely already have a 360 and/or a PS3 so the comparison is moot since you wouldn't be in the market for either anyway and owning one or the other narrows their value down to their exclusives. The web browser is also ace.

Yet 360 games continually perform better than their Wii u counterparts (when they were getting them at least). For a non-enthusiast, the amount of quality games alone makes the 360 a better choice.

Basically, at their current price point they can't compete with current gen or even last gen.

 

[kswiston]

For Nintendo to drop the Wii U long before its successor is ready would be even more detrimental to the business than keeping the Wii U along with its low sales.

Yup. I think they need to stick with the Wii U for at least 3 years of software support. We are still less than half way through year 2.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

This thread finally reveals its true purpose: assholes trying to rile people up over something they enjoy.

 

[qizah]

I love how some people seem to sit behind the excuse that the WiiU is fine and it's a different situation because Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash.

Nintendo are a business and decisions are made based on numbers and performance. End of.

They're not going to keep pumping money into a machine that's failing just because they can afford to...

The Wii U isn't fine, but it's pretty stupid to think that Nintendo is going through exactly what SEGA did, because they aren't. Different time period, different factors, different decision making. Also it's a pretty big deal that Nintendo does have extra cash, It gives them far more freedom than SEGA had.

 

[Prototype]

What Ben doesn't understand is that Sega's financial situation and Nintendo's are far different. Sega was a company that was already in trouble. But this Ben guy probably doesn't care, just wants to stir the pot a bit and get some clicks and attention.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

I am simply saying that it can, man. That's it.

No, you're stating that there are multiple games, including ones developed by Nintendo, on Wii U that run at 1080/60.

Nintendo games in HD and it even does 1080p and 60 FPS

HD games that can run in 1080p/60 FPS

And if you did simply state that it can, its not much of a pro in the first place as we have two generations of Xbox and Playstation consoles capable of the same thing. Its almost like stating it plays in color.

 

[Tripon]

Well until then, the 360 with no games is a much better value than the Wii u.

Hope you like paying for Gold to watch Netflix.

 

[prag16]

definitely a sense of irony going here. dreamcast was one of the best consoles that got killed off, the wii u is verging on the definition of garbage but it lives on.

Posts like this... "durr if I don't like something nobody can. Meanwhile what I like must be objectively good". Keep this sort of garbage to yourself.

 

[Amazeballs]

What Ben doesn't understand is that Sega's financial situation and Nintendo's are far different. Sega was a company that was already in trouble. But this Ben guy probably doesn't care, just wants to stir the pot a bit and get some clicks and attention.

What Ben doesn't understand is basic math. He got the relative ages wrong.

 

[petran79]

both systems are dead

difference is that the Wii U was dead on arrival

 

[Toshi_TNE]

I love how some people seem to sit behind the excuse that the WiiU is fine and it's a different situation because Nintendo are sitting on a pile of cash.

Nintendo are a business and decisions are made based on numbers and performance. End of.

They're not going to keep pumping money into a machine that's failing just because they can afford to...

By that logic Sony would have dumped the PS3. They didn't, and it finished strong.

But hey, if you still think you're right you should apply for a job at Nintendo. Your degree from the GAF school of economics should get you right in.

 

[RagnarokX]

Yet 360 games continually perform better than their Wii u counterparts (when they were getting them at least). For a non-enthusiast, the amount of quality games alone makes the 360 a better choice.

But enthusiasts are demanding $200 with a free $60 game. The non-enthusiasts can get that deal in 5 years like they waited for the 360. Was 360 $200 with a big library when most people arguing for a ridiculously cheap Wii U bought theirs? How many bought PS4s or XBOs without a big library and uncertain future games?

 

[Zombie James]

Fifty percent worse than the Dreamcast. Damn. Just pull the plug.

 

[Squalor]

What's even crazier is that the Dreamcast had way more great games by this point in its life, too.

Fifty percent worse than the Dreamcast. Damn. Just pull the plug.

Wii U = Terri Schiavo

 

[Juno]

and they aren't going to abandon a product when they don't have a replacement ready.

Well yeah I agree
... But will they change their plans and allocate resources accordingly? For sure! And where does that leave third party publishers in terms of their ongoing support??

I can't see anyone realistically thinking the WiiU will have a shelf life anywhere near that of the Wii. Unless of course there's a huge shift in interest and sales of the console.

 

[Riposte]

Not all that comparable in their situations, but I think Wii U will see Dreamcast-like threads in ten years. Once the drama of sale charts, magazine/sites, and E3s for this decade passes over, only the interesting games will be left for enthusiasts to rediscover.

 

[ironcreed]

No, you're stating that there are multiple games, including ones developed by Nintendo, on Wii U that run at 1080/60.





And if you did simply state that it can, its not much of a pro in the first place as we have two generations of Xbox and Playstation consoles capable of the same thing. Its almost like stating it plays in color.

It is statement that was implying that it can... that's all. And at a cheaper price for people who are interested in the games. I think I know what I was trying to convey, but thanks for trying to tell me what I really meant.

 

[Mory Dunz]

The age of Nintendo is done?

 

[Seik]

both systems are dead

difference is that the Wii U was dead on arrival

Wiki: 'According to the NPD Group, nearly 890,000 Nintendo Wii U units were sold in the United States after 41 days on the market.'

Not that dead to me, tbh. It became horrible the months after launch.

 

[LithiumSpade]

Not really. Wii U is a new and more powerful console with backwards compatibility and a bunch of high-quality games and more on the way. If you're an enthusiast you most likely already have a 360 and/or a PS3 so the comparison is moot since you wouldn't be in the market for either anyway and owning one or the other narrows their value down to their exclusives. The web browser is also ace.

More powerful is very debatable. The majority of cross-platform games on the Wii U perform worse and/or have missing features compared to their 360/PS3 versions. "New" console literally means nothing except a significantly smaller library, so that's a win for 360 as well. Backwards compatible? 360 also does that, and whilst it only supports 51% of the OG Xbox games, that still gives you well over 450 titles + the 2,000 on 360 itself. The web browser on the 360 when used with Smartglass isn't half bad, although I have to question who uses a console web browser as their primary (incidentally, I did on the Dreamcast back in 2000 because I didn't have a PC in my room, but things have changed). If you own almost any other device (tablet, phone, PC, laptop) their browsers are significantly better than the Wii U's and faster to access. As a "value proposition" the 360 is miles ahead. UNLESS, of course, you want specifically Nintendo titles, and then obviously the Wii U is the console to go for. But as demonstrated, the majority do not, and therefore from an objective point of view the 360 (or indeed PS3) is a better value purchase.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Dreamcast is more comparable to the Vita --> lots of Japanophile games, lots of ports, handful of decent exclusives

The Dreamcast had a great library though.

 

[Aquamarine]

Dreamcast announced discontinuation: January 31st, 2001
(2 years, 2 months, 2 days after its first release in Japan)
(1 year, 4 months, 22 days after its release in North America)

Dreamcast hardware discontinuation: March 30th, 2001
(2 years, 4 months, 3 days after its first release in Japan)
(1 year, 6 months, 21 days after its release in North America)


Wii U current date: April 20th, 2014
(1 year, 5 months, 2 days after its first release in North America)



NPD (USA sales to consumers) comparison:


As of the 2nd March:

Dreamcast:
September 1999 (launch) - March 2001 (19 months):
3.16 million

Wii U:
November 2012 (launch) - March 2014 (17 months):
2.30 million



As of 17 months:

Dreamcast:
September 1999 (launch) - January 2001 (17 months):
2.86 million

Wii U:
November 2012 (launch) - March 2014 (17 months):
2.30 million


As of the launch period:

Dreamcast:
September 1999 - December 1999 (4 months, launch period)
1.48 million

Wii U:
November 2012 - December 2012 (2 months, launch period)
0.88 million


As of the second year:

Dreamcast:
January 2000 - December 2000 (12 months):
1.28 million

Wii U:
January 2013 - December 2013 (12 months):
1.21 million


As of the third year so far:

Dreamcast:
January 2001 - March 2001 (3 months):
0.40 million

Wii U:
January 2014 - March 2014 (3 months):
0.20 million



Final LTD:

Dreamcast:
September 1999 - 2002
4.01 million (3.16 million so far)

Wii U:
November 2012 - 2015
??? million (2.30 million so far)

 

[Darryl M R]

I wonder what is Nintendos next action plan, hopefully they will value E3 this year and come with something good.