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Official video: Xbox One coming to China.

Man, this could be pretty big. It'd be really interesting to see some Chinese-developed games come out, especially if Microsoft really pushes the independent development opportunities.

Also, props to them for having the first "gamer" they showed be a well-spoken woman.

It's a good step.
 
Man, this could be pretty big. It'd be really interesting to see some Chinese-developed games come out, especially if Microsoft really pushes the independent development opportunities.

There's a lot of Chinese developed games already on PC. We know the market inclinations of the Chinese scene pretty decently.
 
I wonder if they will have Gold in China because it won't work.

China is driven on F2P, so PS4 can definitely be more successful, especially with allowing crossplay.
If they don't drop Gold for China for F2P, it's done for Xbone there.
 

Usobuko

Banned
There are a lot of knock off brands in China with names that are closely resembling well-known international brands because of the public seen them as higher quality than the local counterparts. I think the chinese middle class is savvy enough to navigate and compare what's desirable and what's not in the rest of the world and that can be one of the parameters they used in their purchasing decision. After all, part of Apple success is because it is seen as a symbol of wealth and creativity.

This is why I think Xbox One would have a tough road ahead should PS4 made its way there. Sales, public mindshare, value perception would all come into place.
 

fedexpeon

Banned
Apple now makes one eighth (12.5%) of its revenue from China, significantly above Japan, more than half of all of Europe, and around a third of what it makes in the US. And it's growing very quickly, and every single quarter they mention China in their investment calls or releases. And that's despite difficulties signing carriers to sell the iPhone.

I don't know if it s a culture thing or not, but dammit I hate visiting my relatives oversea.
They always "brag" about their Apple products.
Literally, every Lunar New Year since the iPhone craze, they always wanted a new iPhone instead.
And in the States? All they have are iPhone and Mac because they BELIEVE it is a superior product because it is expensive.
Out of my family/relatives/friends, I am the very few Asian with an Android phone...And some of my family members have the nerves to ask me if I would like them to buy me an iPhone for my benefit because they were EMBARRASSED for me for having an inferior product.

Sorry for the rant...and totally offtopic.
 

Usobuko

Banned
I don't know if it s a culture thing or not, but dammit I hate visiting my relatives oversea.
They always "brag" about their Apple products.
Literally, every Lunar New Year since the iPhone craze, they always wanted a new iPhone instead.
And in the States? All they have are iPhone and Mac because they BELIEVE it is a superior product because it is expensive.
Out of my family/relatives/friends, I am the very few Asian with an Android phone...And some of my family members have the nerves to ask me if I would like them to buy me an iPhone for my benefit because they were EMBARRASSED for me for having an inferior product.

Sorry for the rant...and totally offtopic.

This is why I feel Microsoft needs an absolutely knock out marketing campaign for Xbox One in China. Not that I think consoles would be huge with Tencent watching from the sidelines.
 
How do parents feel about consoles now after the ban? One of the reasons for the ban was because children were spending so much time on them, parents started to complain.

Then again, those children are now adults and are potentially parents now, so...
 
I've taken 3 courses in Mandarin and the problem I find is that if you don't immerse yourself for some time you forget a good chunk.

Really interesting language though.

That's the thing with all languages though.

For all the languages that I've learned, German is especially annoying in that sense (grammatical genders.)
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Apple now makes one eighth (12.5%) of its revenue from China, significantly above Japan, more than half of all of Europe, and around a third of what it makes in the US. And it's growing very quickly, and every single quarter they mention China in their investment calls or releases. And that's despite difficulties signing carriers to sell the iPhone.

China is also the major driver of Hollywood film revenue, as increasingly tentpole movies make their profit thanks to international BO for which China is one of the main growth areas and one of the biggest overall by size.

Every platform owner, if they have even basic sense, will be scrambling to get a foothold in China.

Yesir. The growth opportunities in China are present.

However, I'm not sure if Xbox One is tailored for the Chinese market; though details are scarce at the moment, so maybe they will shed some light on their strategy further down the line.

The idea of selling a game through retail medium at 59.99$ is a hard sell as the market is not accustomed to that pricing model, mostly F2P content.

The prospect of SNE and NTDOY entering the Chinese markets is an exciting one - Nintendo might have an edge to be honest and if implemented correctly, the potential is vast.

Iwata had some thoughts on emerging markets that were interesting:

For a large majority of consumers in the new markets, however, the current prices of hardware and software in the existing markets are generally difficult to accept. To leverage Nintendo’s strength as an integrated hardware-software business, we will not rule out the idea of offering our own hardware for new markets, but for dramatic expansion of the consumer base there, we require a product family of hardware and software with an entirely different price structure from that of the developed markets.

Exciting times.
 
How do parents feel about consoles now after the ban? One of the reasons for the ban was because children were spending so much time on them, parents started to complain.

Then again, those children are now adults and are potentially parents now, so...

"What are you doing? Are you playing a game?
We did not spend all that money on you just so you can play games!
What is so fun with these games? Playing with people aren't going to get you any where!!!"
Why don't you go outside and do some exercises or go study!!!

relax? You want to relax? Go look in the library and cram schools and look hard those kids are studying? why can't you be like them!!??"

(Asian parenting won't change much until cram school, art classes and the behavior of comparing children goes away.)

*tears the controller out of your hand and throws it outside of the window*
 

Usobuko

Banned
How do parents feel about consoles now after the ban? One of the reasons for the ban was because children were spending so much time on them, parents started to complain.

Then again, those children are now adults and are potentially parents now, so...

The middle class I know there don't pressure their kids to get excellent academic results nor bombard their kids with many supplementary courses. Like piano lessons etc. They want them to have a happy, memorable childhood.

They just simply let them do what they want until they are ready to take over the family business or starts their own. Then again, this is all anecdotal.
 
The middle class I know there don't pressure their kids to get excellent academic results nor bombard their kids with many supplementary courses. Like piano lessons etc. They want them to have a happy memorable childhood.

They just simply let them do what they want until they are ready to take over the family business or starts their own. Then again, this is all anecdotal.

Middle class.
 
Apple now makes one eighth (12.5%) of its revenue from China, significantly above Japan, more than half of all of Europe, and around a third of what it makes in the US. And it's growing very quickly, and every single quarter they mention China in their investment calls or releases. And that's despite difficulties signing carriers to sell the iPhone.

China is also the major driver of Hollywood film revenue, as increasingly tentpole movies make their profit thanks to international BO for which China is one of the main growth areas and one of the biggest overall by size.

Every platform owner, if they have even basic sense, will be scrambling to get a foothold in China.
I think it's good to enter into these markets (officially), but at the same time I'm pretty sure people are overestimating the initial impact on the console market. The iPhone is a convergent substitution for a variety of everyday devices and needs, I don't know if the same can really be said for the Xbox or PS.
one bad statistic for another ... more middle class chinese than there are americans.
Define "middle class" quantitatively in dollar terms out of curiosity. If you're just talking about the middle two quartiles of the population for instance then obviously the higher population will always have a larger "middle class."
 

Synth

Member
Late replies, but here I go.

Genre preference to PC is usually due to localization and piracy.
Console games are rarely localized outside of first party titles and the "easy" stuff (ex: Dynasty Warriors.) So even till now, console gaming are reserved for those who are willing to put up with Japanese/English.

Yes, Non-localized PC titles don't sell well in China either.

As for distribution - anyone who wants a console knows where to get one.
Like every other hot and popular tech device that isn't officially released in China.
It's not grey to the point where you have to walk into some secret basement shop or something.

Yea, I wouldn't be surprised in the games required for a console to take off over there are very different from over here. A lot of games in various genres have been seeing f2p experimentation (especially Namco), so this may not actually be a large problem in the future. The indie push can probably go a long way to getting enough local content onto the boxes to make them a worthwhile option.

It will still be a problem for Microsoft specifically if they don't alter Xbox Live though.

The grey market is already extremely widespread and cheaper.

Chinese gamers also heavily favor F2P PC games because they're free.

Other companies have attempted to sell consoles in China and they were largely unsuccessful.

Same response as above for this I guess. Price would be important and the games required to gain popularity will likely need to be different. I don't think past failures rule out any possibility of future success though, previous generations didn't really have the distribution models required to match the type of services that were available on PC before.

As for anyone who wants one being able to get one. Well, that's part of the problem, you need to already want one. The casual market in general tends to only realise they want a specific game as a result of the game being marketed to them, if you won't be made aware of new releases without actually going to a shop to check for them, then I don't see it as very surprising that most don't take this option.

Their preferences are based on F2P, and netcafe model.
People don't make that much over there, and these games allow them to spend a few coins here and there to enjoy the contents that these games offer them.
And of course, privacy on PC is easier.

We will see though if buying a console "legitimately" actually affects anything.
But if it does, the Playstation and Nintendo brand will reap the reward more than the XB. Those two brands are very well known, even to my grandma living oversea since PS/Nintendo stuff are always in their movie as reference/parody.

F2P is likely to have plenty of console options over the course of this gen, so I don't see that being an issue.

I didn't actually specify that I believed the Xbox would be the console to benefit most, so I'm not sure why that needed to be a part of your response. I personally think Xbox Live Gold is a far bigger problem than brand recognition though. You can establish a decent presence in a surprisingly small amount of time (Sony with the original PlayStation for example).
 

numble

Member
It's complete insanity to assume that 300M are even close to having disposable income for this.

The average annual income in 2012 for the country was a measly $2,100 dollars, while even in Shanghai it was $4,700.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/20/world/asia/survey-in-china-shows-wide-income-gap.html?_r=0

Let's not go by averages when you have a huge farmers/peasant population of roughly 50% (both on farms and moving to cities to do manual labor in the cities). Besides being a big market for Apple, I think car sales offer a good reflection of the potential middle class market--it is a quintessential middle class purchase, especially in a country where public transportation is generally very good and cars generally cost a lot more than in the US, due to taxes. It is the largest market for General Motors (it sold 1.6 million vehicles in China in 2013 compared to 1.4 million in the US), and is the largest car market in the world.

McKinsey estimates that there are roughly 300 million people that should be classified as urban, a significant portion of which would be a target market:
HDX2t84.png


http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/consumer_and_retail/mapping_chinas_middle_class
 

zhao3gold

Banned
Some Chinese insider said the Xbox One will be sold in China at 4999 Chinese Yuan which is equal to 797.94 US Dollar.

Microsoft, you just make a joke. Xbox One is DOA in China with this price tag. Most of Chinese can get Xbox One from illegal channel at the same price as 499 USD or even less.
 
"What are you doing? Are you playing a game?
We did not spend all that money on you just so you can play games!
What is so fun with these games? Playing with people aren't going to get you any where!!!"
Why don't you go outside and do some exercises or go study!!!

relax? You want to relax? Go look in the library and cram schools and look hard those kids are studying? why can't you be like them!!??"

(Asian parenting won't change much until cram school, art classes and the behavior of comparing children goes away.)

*tears the controller out of your hand and throws it outside of the window*

The life of a trophy child.

The middle class I know there don't pressure their kids to get excellent academic results nor bombard their kids with many supplementary courses. Like piano lessons etc. They want them to have a happy, memorable childhood.

They just simply let them do what they want until they are ready to take over the family business or starts their own. Then again, this is all anecdotal.

I can see that, especially after talks of better rights there recently and criticisms of other practices from the CPC.
 

SparkTR

Member
Some Chinese insider said the Xbox One will be sold in China at 4999 Chinese Yuan which is equal to 797.94 US Dollar.

Microsoft, you just make a joke. Xbox One is DOA in China with this price tag. Most of Chinese can get Xbox One from illegal channel at the same price as 499 USD or even less.

I believe they're only expecting to sell 100k there, so their expectations are in check.
 
McKinsey estimates that there are roughly 300 million people that should be classified as urban, a significant portion of which would be a target market:
HDX2t84.png
Again cars and phones don't really strike one as the same type of product as a game console, the former have fundamental functional rather than largely hedonic value.

83% of those 256M have a household income of <$16K. I don't know how many of those will be willing to spend 3+% of their total household income on a system to then spend even more on software for that system.

There's lots of potential there for luxury goods in the long run though obviously as the population continues to urbanize and grow in wealth.
 

kudoboi

Member
"
What is so fun with these games? Playing with people aren't going to get you any where!!!"
Why don't you go outside and do some exercises or go study!!!

look hard those kids are studying? why can't you be like them!!??"

Pretty much. My parents say these to me all the time. I really hate the Asian parents mentality

Every month they would compare my grades to my cousin who is in a top tier school and questions me as to why i don't spend my entire day studying like him
 

sohois

Member
Several people have said it already, but all of the consoles have been in China for years. Like so many 'laws' in China, the video game ban was completely ignored by everyone, you can go to any large electronics market and find all the consoles and games as well, imported from HK, Japan and the US. They're not hidden, they're not crazy expensive, for all intents and purposes the 'official' release will have no effect on availability or anything like that. Heck, given what was posted above it seems that the official price may well be higher than what occurred previously.
 
Nintendo has been in China for years.

Hows that working out for them?

Chinese sales are inconsequential for Nintendo.

Let's take a random recent Nintendo quarter.


Sales Revenue:

Japan: 159.062 billion JPY (31.9%)

North America + South America: 188.354 billion JPY (37.7%)

Europe: 137.635 billion JPY (27.6%)

Other: 14.067 billion JPY (2.8%)


That "Other" includes Australia, New Zealand, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, South Africa, and other regions where Nintendo sells video game products.

Basically, anything that's not Japan + Americas + Europe is ultimately negligible to Nintendo's bottom line.
 
I think the operative word there is "can". It "can" work flawlessly in theory - I have yet to see a video of Kinect which shows it working perfectly.

Well, that's a shame for you then. Kinect has unbelievable accuracy for me. I would say easily 98-99%. The only command I ever seem to have a bit of hit or miss with is "Xbox On," which there seems to be no obvious pattern or familiarity to how it works just yet.

Sometimes it works on the first attempt with my normal speaking voice, other times I may have to say it much louder, sometimes I end up saying it 7 or more times. I assume they're still working on that as it only ever happens with "Xbox On." Once the Xbox is fully turned on, however, I run through countless commands flawlessly. If I bothered to even go through the effort of making a video to put on youtube, I would be very surprised if there was even a single missed voice command, because I rarely, if ever, have any at all. My only misses seem to come when I attempt to give another command way too quickly after just issuing the most recent. People that have bad or even average accuracy with this new Kinect either didn't calibrate it correctly or are having other problems with their device or console.

In fact, just to prove the point, I will make a youtube video sometime in the next day or two just to showcase exactly this. I'll make it 5 minutes straight of me going through all kinds of different commands in different apps, and there won't be any misses.
 
Yea, I wouldn't be surprised in the games required for a console to take off over there are very different from over here. A lot of games in various genres have been seeing f2p experimentation (especially Namco), so this may not actually be a large problem in the future. The indie push can probably go a long way to getting enough local content onto the boxes to make them a worthwhile option.

IMO, F2P's dominance in China is not so much due to people's choice but rather the utter lack of non-F2P Chinese games.

The overall Chinese development scene has never been exceptionally good in quality or graphics, so sales were always an issue. This got especially worse when 3D graphic gaming took off in Japan and the West during the mid-late 90s. For those reasons, once Chinese devs caught on with the subscription/micro-transaction model in the early 2000s, they never looked back. The market was then pretty much devoid of any non-F2P games outside of your occasional monpoly, generic wusha or softstar RPG variation.

So, again - localization is the real key imo. Just making F2P games but no localization won't do any good.
 

Grinchy

Banned
Everyone thought that Sony's ~3 million unit lead meant something. I can't wait to read the comments when MS sells 100 million units in China this year.
 

Raide

Member
Hopefully this leads to more Chinese developers appearing on all formats.

While not the first console to appear in China, at least MS seem to be giving it a shot. Time will tell I guess.
 
If you think an unhackable console can be successful in China you can't be more wrong. Nobody wants to pay for software over there.
 

JayLee

Banned
First post!

I can't really see this launch being a massive success. Even with the potential market China provides I can't imagine the X1 being launched with the Chinese market in mind. Will it have full voice command implementation? Full TV integration? Relevant apps for the Chinese market?

I suppose those, if they tick those boxes and have the games library to back it up, they could do well.

Has there been any word on an official Sony launch in China?
 

Raide

Member
First post!

I can't really see this launch being a massive success. Even with the potential market China provides I can't imagine the X1 being launched with the Chinese market in mind. Will it have full voice command implementation? Full TV integration? Relevant apps for the Chinese market?

I suppose those, if they tick those boxes and have the games library to back it up, they could do well.

Has there been any word on an official Sony launch in China?

They have a partner in BesTV, so maybe they will be doing some integrated box stuff, or maybe subsidizing the console? Also, its not due till September, so if MS go in half-hearted, they will loose their best shot.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
It's easier than any language that requires strict "grammar" rules.

Madarin is difficult not because of the rules. Grammatically, it is the simplest and least ambiguous.

It is complicated because of the vocabulary and writing system. Many words sound the same with only a slight difference in intonation. The use of intonation to form new words and phrases is a concept alien to the English speaking world. Many commonly used phrases in Mandarin also derive their meaning not from the words that make it up, but from historical events, fables and stories that only a native Chinese will know.

Furthermore, the writing system requires memorization of thousands of characters just to get started. If you haven't seen a character before or simply forgot, you are pretty much fucked as far as trying to pronounce it. This is more important than you think. A lot of our vocabulary is acquired by listening and talking in the language. If you can't pronounce a word, you cannot match it with words that you have heard before.

Being bilingual in English and Mandarin from young, I had a far easier time picking up English than Mandarin growing up.
 
There is no easy way to release in China. If you keep a pricing model similar to what we have in the west then it either won't sell or it will be hacked within a month to play copies, this isn't a basement lurker trying to find an exploit, it's the industry that build the boards in the first place, this will impact global software sales.

If they go for a pricing model that's a lot cheaper for Chinese residents then we'll have the problem of people in the west buying it from China and setting up VPN's to play at a much reduced price. Either way MS are just throwing money away.

Nintendo have been trying this for years, the cat and mouse game of trying to get around massive piracy whilst keeping it affordable in China. I wonder if they have recouped the R+D costs they've spent over the years.
 
pricing is the big factor... Lifetime sales could comfortably surpass 20 million if they keep price of gold and games on the low end... If I was in charge I would even contemplate letting them have gold for free

Do Microsoft have azure servers in china?
 
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