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[Wazzy]

Nope. This is always the result of that sort of hype and speculation.

Same thing happened when people wanted to confirm... what, Gen IV(?) starters as fake. Same thing that happens in the Smash thread every week.

...God I can't wait for Ridley to be truly deconfirmed.

I'll disagree in this case since the creator made a comment supporting the speculation.

What implications though? Link has looked androgynous for a long time now, we had people talking about how feminine he looked when the Hyrule Warriors full sized artwork was revealed. The only implication at all that this was someone other than the standard Link was Aonuma trolling, and even he didn't say "what if it's a female".

People mainly seem mad IMO because they didn't want to believe that the model of Link we saw could be a guy because it "didn't fit" male stereotypes from their personal view, and thus must be female.

First, I'm all for androgynous characters. But there's always going to be more noticeably female traits compared to male. This Link looked like a woman and compared to all his other incarnations it's exactly why everyone was starting to think it was a new character or female version.

He has a ponytail, slimmer face and body, curves and uses a bow and arrow and yet people are reading into things? It's pretty obvious this design was done on purpose.

Him also after all of the blow up about the design decides to make a comment saying "I never said that was Link" is definitely feeding fans the idea it's a female or new character.

 

[aly]

You're essentially cutting your potential sales in half.

Are there statistics or studies that back this up regarding Zelda?

 

[piratethingy]

Turns out I'm at least a little bit gay

 

[Madness]

All right. Great points. So, if we aren't allowed to change Link, would it be cool to have a Zelda game without him? A brand new female protagonist? Or are we still, for some reason, not allowed to have a Zelda game without Link for the sake of consistency and/or nostalgia?

It would be cool. I once thought of an idea where you play as Zelda and Sheik in the years of Ganondorf's rise while Link was in the temple of time for seven years.

Have it set in open world Hyrule and have it be in the vein of Assassin's Creed. As Zelda, you can do magic or use arrows and ride horses. As Sheik you can do parkour, climb buildings, run and melee/fight. Have the story be how Zelda fought against the rise and oppression of Ganon as she fought back etc.

There are a number of options. Look at Wind Waker beginning. Link wasn't born and evil attacked etc. You can make a game where Zelda is reborn but Link wasn't. She can win, she can lose etc. It's not about playing as a girl for me. I have no problems with that. I have a problem with changing Link, I'd always be against that.

I hate whitewashing of characters in films, I also hate when established characters have their origin stories changed or other key parts changed, that's just me though. I feel once a character is introduced, and established, it should never be changed. Need something else, make a new character, or change a minor and somewhat irrelevant character.

 

[WrenchNinja]

The character is a known member of their community. They've often seen as a slacker, the last person one would trust with the fate of Hyrule. You're meant to believe that prior to the player starting the game, Link was somebody. By having an avatar creator at the front, it smashes that illusion.

What is the point of this vague description? How is this important when this stops being brought up past the first area you're in? How important is it that he's a slacker?

So somehow, a select screen that says be a boy or girl totally destroys the illusion of the non existent character known as Link but a giant screen that asks you to name the character doesn't do anything at all, even when I for example, name him Batman?

Batman! Batman ! Wake up! Hey listen!

Or are you trying to say that description can't fit a girl?

 

[RMS Gigantic]

Every past Legend of Zelda game has starred Link as the playable character, and there's value in adherence to tradition. You're free to use the word "Zelda" in the title for branding purposes, but if a LoZ game isn't going to tell the "LoZ Story" - don't title it LoZ.

Except that the trailer at E3 2014 emphasized breaking traditions. His last sentence before cutting to gameplay was even, "I think that one convention we can keep, right?" That sentence was about, of all things, seeing enemies in an initially peaceful field.

 

[notBald]

Link isn't a girl?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv5OIvwqkvM&feature=kp disagrees

 

[Pikma]

Wanting it to happen is one thing, them having to do it is something completely different, and lot of you guys are sounding more and more like the latter. What do you guys win if Nintendo or any other company did it only because of people's pressure, or to cater you? Wouldn't you rather see them doing it by own initiative, just by themselves because it ocurred to them it could work?

It's like when people treats you with respect just because they have to vs people being nice for the sake of being it, you know, sincerely.

 

[Not]

Doubtless a lot of the people who'd love to play a female character in Zelda are guys.

raises hand

 

[AnathemicOne]

Because Link has always been male? Because there's absolutely no reason to change him? If suddenly Zelda was a man, I'm pretty sure people would be angry, but I don't see any calls for that.

And if anything, the most vehement defenses have been on the side that want him to be changed.

Zelda in lore also represents an avatar similar to Link and personally I wouldn't mind it, would be refreshing.

Aside from that though people aren't calling for Zelda changes because:
1) Zelda wasn't trolled by Aonuma.
2) Zelda isn't the playable protagonist thus making a genderswap trivial compared to a Link genderswap.

And like has been stated previously Link has always been a "pretty guy" with each installation in the franchise moving the character design closer to androgynous as is now shown by the speculation we just had in the recent trailer.

 

[Aretak]

Because one game where the whole franchise doesn't even use the same character and his appearance changes throughout each game having a female lead should not bother people this much. Gender doesn't affect Link at all.

Equally, not having a female Link shouldn't bother people this much. It shouldn't be an issue at all. And yet here we are... again.

 

[truestatic]

I think it's kinda sad you can't make a Legend of Zelda game starring the titular character without some people crying foul. You'd have to make a spinoff. What are you gonna call that?

Spoiler

Zelda's Adventure

Yeah, I know. What's more, those who want this don't just want to play as Zelda, or as a girl Link, they want to play a Legend of Zelda game. You can't just do a spin-off without justifying it with new mechanics. That'd be like if Luigi's Mansion was just a Mario platformer with a tileset swap. I agree it's a quandary, and I go back and forth on whether or not they should do the playable girl thing. I'm not as against it as I probably sound, and I love to see people get what they want.

All right. Great points. So, if we aren't allowed to change Link, would it be cool to have a Zelda game without him? A brand new female protagonist? Or are we still, for some reason, not allowed to have a Zelda game without Link for the sake of consistency and/or nostalgia?

Sorry if I'm coming off as hopelessly difficult. I don't honestly know what the answer is that would please jerks like me who want our male Link Zelda game and everyone on the other side of the fence. I guess maybe it doesn't matter that much. The truth is that if or when it happens, that won't break my interest. I don't doubt that we'll all get over it. Whether it's a girl or a guy swinging the master sword I love Zelda games, and I'm always impatiently waiting for the next one.

Edit: what a typo. I really need to stop altering my phrasing halfway through a sentence.

 

[A-V-B]

Man, I really wanna write the story of that Zelda-centric game now. That'd be so much fun to make!

But currently it wouldn't pay

 

[bon]

That's not the context, though. The journalist said that Link looked different. Aonuma responded by suggesting it might not be Link at all.

Ah, I guess I wasn't quite clear on the context.

Still though, come on, of course it's Link.

 

[technocritter]

This is how a I feel about it.
Reincarnation is an important part of Zelda, and it gives them the freedom to whatever they want(with a few boundaries of course)while bringing back important characters.

They can make Link a dark haired Asian looking girl in an ancient West African village, and it could still be Link.
As long as she has the hero's tunic, and his courageous spirit she's Link.

So clothes are more important than physical appearance? Link wasn't wearing the tunic in the trailer so who knows.

 

[monome]

I want mooooaaaaarrrr pics/video.

I give no shit about feminine Link. Comes September we will get the manlier version of Link there has ever been.

I want to know the camera angle. I demand a higher POV. Smaller Link, larger environments. That's Zelda for me.

 

[zhorkat]

You sure seem obsessed with the sequel organs of the characters. You also seem to overlook the fact you are basing Link as a different character simply because of the different art style of the game, or you would have remembered that Link has always been born a Hylian male. Even in Ocarina when the Kokiri raised him as their own.

So he'll always be the same character, however a male Hylian looks in that game. He's never even had a skin color change. Always the same white, blonde, Hylian with pointy ears. So despite his cel-shading, his bushy hair, his spiky hair, he's always technically been the same eternal character.

That's kind of the point of an eternal curse, that he's always reborn as he was those centuries, millenia ago.

Pink-haired Link laughs at your eternal curse.

 

[Kurt]

Taken from another thread:

If you look to this screenshot it's the same man:

Again he told not to focus on the character, but on the environment.
Second, link isn't wearing his tuning, so that's why it could be extra confusing.

 

[klier]

Awesome news! I'd hate to see a female Link.

 

[Sify64]

I'd rather Zelda be a playable character or introduce a new companion/ heroine to the series. I wonder what would be your thoughts if Link and Zelda's minds were temporarily swapped for some reason like a body swap?

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxSWImRPb4

Day one, trust me.

 

[A-V-B]

Marketing? No fuck marketing... those guys do nothing but make things worse.

DEVELOPERS should be taking note and making more of an effort to make more games with strong female leads (and not embarassing ones like Super Princess Peach).

I'm just saying realistically.

I'm sure individual developers will take note, that's a given, but most of them on the team aren't going to be directing the next game in any huge way, ya dig? Probably just a few folks like usual are gonna be raising the seed.

 

[technocritter]

Awesome news! I'd hate to see a female Link.

You realize you're just as dumb as the people demanding that Link be female, right?

 

[Wazzy]

I disagree. I think he had plenty personality in Wind Waker and in Twilight Princess. I think him being male influenced that. Similarly if Link was female his character would be influenced by that as well. But that's my opinion.

I don't think we're going to agree here but I'll ask:

Can you provide examples that show it had to be a male Link in those games?

Equally, not having a female Link shouldn't bother people this much. It shouldn't be an issue at all. And yet here we are... again.

And as said before, the reason it's become a big issue is because of the combination of Links appearance throwing everyone off AND the creators comments.

All he had to say was "Sorry everyone but that's Link" and the disappointment wouldn't be this big.

 

[MisterHero]

And yet so many scoff at the idea of changing it up just once. I still don't understand how link's soul is physiologically male.

Divine beings in Zelda have genders.

There's the Goddesses of the Triforce.
There's the Snake Goddess.
There are several gods and guardians that resemble animals.
There's Demise and Hylia.

Demise and Hylia reincarnated into mortal forms that resembled their god forms. Maybe the Zelda series has a tighter definition of reincarnation than other stories.

You realize you're just as dumb as the people demanding that Link be female, right?

I thought you were spectating, not making shit posts.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

You're essentially cutting your potential sales in half.

Because no girl will ever buy a game where you don't play as a female.
But every single male would buy the game regardless of the gender of the player character.

Some of the one way leaps in logic on this topic of conversation recently are fantastic.

 

[activatethesmile]

Wanting it to happen is one thing, them having to do it is something completely different, and lot of you guys are sounding more and more like the latter. What do you guys win if Nintendo or any other company did it only because of people's pressure, or to cater you? Wouldn't you rather see them doing it by own initiative, just by themselves because it ocurred to them it could work?

It's like when people treats you with respect just because they have to vs people being nice for the sake of being it, you know, sincerely.

This is precisely the words I've been wanting to say.

 

[ponpo]

Day one, trust me.

Enjoy your musou trash

Spoiler

she looks stylish I want to play it as well ;_;

 

[Vermillion]

So why can't these guys ever come through with their trolling at the end? Why can't they do it and then reap the benefits of what they whipped up? Unironically, it seems like such a thing would be a huge coups for good will.

Maybe they should think about this.

1) It's safer
2) Fans on the 'net don't count for much

I'll disagree in this case since the creator made a comment supporting the speculation.

I'll give you that. He still wasn't specific, though.

 

[technocritter]

Divine beings in Zelda have genders.

There's the Goddesses of the Triforce.
There's the Snake Goddess.
There are several gods and guardians that resemble animals.
There's Demise and Hylia.

Demise and Hylia reincarnated into mortal forms that resembled their god forms. Maybe the Zelda series has a tighter definition of reincarnation than other stories.


I thought you were spectating, not making shit posts.

I just meant that I wasn't invested in the topic at hand.

Also, are you really defending the guy who would hate to play as a female?

 

[Byronic Hero]

Pretty much exactly what I thought. Just a joke based on people's assumptions.

 

[DR2K]

Went from a must look into. To a wait until it's given away via promotion.

Spoiler

relax

 

[Log4Girlz]

If they ever make Link a female, just once, then they'll ruin the character. I mean, think of the dangerous precedent they would be setting.

 

[GorillaJu]

Wow, Nintendo just missed a HUGE chance to actually make a statement in this god damn misogynist industry. Major missed opportunity here, Nintendo.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

So clothes are more important than physical appearance? Link wasn't wearing the tunic in the trailer so who knows.

Nothing in the lore says that every Link has to dress in a green tunic, but they've found ways to make Link's classic outfit a special part of the world in the previous games. Plus, I like his green tunic.

Also, speaking as a student character designer I can tell you that there are a huge number of ways to reference Link's classic design in a non-green tunic outfit.

Edit: However, you might want to ease fans into a drastically new design. So giving a female Asian Link a green tunic is probably a really good idea to avoid a really really huge uproar.

 

[Not]

Awesome news! I'd hate to see a female Link.

I wish we could get people to clarify whether they'd like a female hero at all or just not a female Link. Cause that would pre-empt a lot of arguments

 

[KojiKnight]

I'm just saying realistically.

I'm sure individual developers will take note, that's a given, but most of them on the team aren't going to be directing the next game in any huge way, ya dig? Probably just a few folks like usual are gonna be raising the seed.

I do, but again... Fuck marketing. They are the ones that will force change onto developers at any cost (usually the cost of the story). I'd much rather the creative types see this and expand their own horizons in their games than have a marketting guy come in 6 months from completion and go "Really need you to change your vision cause female leads are trending!!"

 

[ASIS]

Wait, what are you trying to say?

I just woke up so I kind of went off topic without understanding the core of the argument. I wanted to say that the standard protagonist in games is a male, and the fact that Samus could be swapped with a male character is a good thing. Because it shows that the focus is on gameplay, not gender.

Then I realized that this is the point of the argument... I should stop posting for a while

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Enjoy your musou trash

Spoiler

she looks stylish I want to play it as well ;_;

The best kind of trash.

 

[PdotMichael]

You seem to be dodging my questions every time or answering them only partly. Why would Link to have change looks? He already looks like he'd pass being a female pretty much. She would still be Link and her being a female wouldn't change any of that.

Even ignoring the gender speculations. There were already many discussions if the character shown in the trailer was Link in the first place because he didn't wear his green outfit.

 

[truestatic]

Wanting it to happen is one thing, them having to do it is something completely different, and lot of you guys are sounding more and more like the latter. What do you guys win if Nintendo or any other company did it only because of people's pressure, or to cater you? Wouldn't you rather see them doing it by own initiative, just by themselves because it ocurred to them it could work?

It's like when people treats you with respect just because they have to vs people being nice for the sake of being it, you know, sincerely.

This is precisely the words I've been wanting to say.

In lieu of what's best, we'll settle for what's attainable. If it takes a fan campaign to make it happen, then you can hardly expect people to wait patiently for Nintendo to guess at their desires.

 

[technocritter]

Nothing in the lore says that every Link has to dress in a green tunic, but they've found ways to make Link's classic outfit a special part of the world. Plus, I like his green tunic.

Also, speaking as a student character designer I can tell you that there are a huge number of ways to reference Link's classic design in a non-green tunic outfit.

Looks closer to his lobster outfit in WW to me.

 

[Thorakai]

Wanting it to happen is one thing, them having to do it is something completely different, and lot of you guys are sounding more and more like the latter. What do you guys win if Nintendo or any other company did it only because of people's pressure, or to cater you? Wouldn't you rather see them doing it by own initiative, just by themselves because it ocurred to them it could work?

It's like when people treats you with respect just because they have to vs people being nice for the sake of being it, you know, sincerely.

Eh. It takes pressure to get people to embrace things they aren't familiar with. I don't want to steer this conversation wildly in another direction...but things like racism or sexism didn't change by waiting for the white male majority to figure what they were doing was wrong. You need somebody to drum up interest and put pressure on change. Doing nothing will only ensure people keep the status quo.

 

[Madness]

Pink-haired Link laughs at your eternal curse.

Link as he appears in the manual of Link to the Past, even if the sprite is pink due to the limited color palette of the SNES/Super Famicom.

 

[A-V-B]

Link as he appears in the manual of Link to the Past, even if the sprite is pink due to the limited color palette of the SNES/Super Famicom.

Someday, that'd be a fun joke costume or something. PInk Link.

 

[Rootbeer]

I totally understand the excitement a female protagonist would bring for some to this series. But I'm glad it's Link. He looks great.

 

[Lynd7]

Whats the WW connection now then? Is he implying that this is WW Link but older? Or a direct descendant of that Link?

 

[Mushroomer25]

What is the point of this vague description? How is this important when this stops being brought up past the first area you're in? How important is it that he's a slacker?

So somehow, a select screen that says be a boy or girl totally destroys the illusion of the non existent character known as Link but a giant screen that asks you to name the character doesn't do anything at all, even when I for example, name him Batman?

Batman! Batman ! Wake up! Hey listen!

Or are you trying to say that description can't fit a girl?

It has nothing to do with gender. It has everything to do with atmosphere. When you start a Legend of Zelda game, Link isn't just falling into the universe, meeting everybody for the first time. They know him, they've formed opinions of him - there's a history there. The player is personifying a character with existing relationships that often come back with large influence on the game's story. You could do all those things with a female character. But by offering a toggle switch on the first screen, you're dulling that perception. Rather than being a natural part of the universe, this is a character the player has made that has been dropped into the world.

Games like Dark Souls, Skyrim, and Fallout all often start with the "stranger in a strange land" conceit for a reason. The player character can be anyone, often anything. Backstory doesn't work.

Additionally, there's the obvious fact that if a Zelda game did offer a female player character - it'd be a significant moment for the franchise. It's an opportunity to leverage the series' past, to talk about twisting these long-standing traditions. If you're catering to a game that can also be played as a male MC - all that goes out the window. And that's a pretty huge bummer.

 

[DrunkDan]

Not to me, but OK. If Link were wearing the green tunic like this:

then the speculation would never have happened.

That looks amazing.

Edit: I hope the green tunic actually looks like this seeing as it was the post that gave me member status. Now I'm off to create a thread to get myself banned.

 

[one_kill]

Wow, Nintendo just missed a HUGE chance to actually make a statement in this god damn misogynist industry. Major missed opportunity here, Nintendo.

What opportunity? I don't get it.

Are you saying this for 95% of the games btw?
"Sony just missed a huge chance by not making Sackgirl?"