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[nOoblet16]

You missed the point in which the picture is a parody, making fun of the current market. As such, the fact that intends to transmit is amplified by the literary device known as exaggeration. Sheesh.

Anyways, the point still stands. Even Doom's bidimensional maps were massively more complex and open than most modern ones, multi levelled or not. There's a good reason why the launch of a new Crysis or Far Cry game are events by themselves, and that's because they bring something relatively unusual to the market.

Most current day FPS undestand level progression as pushing the player through a level by means such as explosions and moving vehicles, whereas in Doom you could take multiple paths at your own pace, not the one dictated by the developers. One of the things I hate most about CoD and Battlefield is the feeling of being the content inside of a syringe.

I didn't miss it, I clearly said that the 2nd picture is a joke picture. I mean yes there are games that funnel you down a path but there are also games that don't, shooters that give a bit of leg room are really not that rare imo.

 

[TheVampire]

Is this new DOOM game being made on the same engine as Rage and Wolfenstein?

 

[Delta Assault]

Is this new DOOM game being made on the same engine as Rage and Wolfenstein?

Yes.

 

[Skab]

Yes.

I don't think we actually know that yet, do we?

 

[nOoblet16]

Didn't Carmack once said that iD were planning on making Doom 4 30FPS for PS360 for improved graphics? If that's the case then why did Machine games mentioned that idTech 5 requires you to have 60hz updates for game logic and hence 60FPS is the only choice when developing games for it?

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I didn't miss it, I clearly said that the 2nd picture is a joke picture. I mean yes there are games that funnel you down a path but there are also games that don't, shooters that give a bit of leg room are really not that rare imo.

There are no FPS games around today that emulate or even come close to, specifically, the labrinthyean, expansive and varied nature of some of DooM's biggest and best maps. There just aren't.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Yes.

Was that announced?

 

[petghost]

i have literally no idea how you successfully make a modern DOOM game.

i dont think you can do it like serious sam or whatever in that old school style and im not sure it will work in a more conventional modern style either.

 

[Bishop89]

i have literally no idea how you successfully make a modern DOOM game.

i dont think you can do it like serious sam or whatever in that old school style and im not sure it will work in a more conventional modern style either.

I would imagine it be like a bioshock.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I would imagine it be like a bioshock.

But DooM games usually have enjoyable gunplay.

 

[Metal-Geo]

Didn't Carmack once said that iD were planning on making Doom 4 30FPS for PS360 for improved graphics? If that's the case then why did Machine games mentioned that idTech 5 requires you to have 60hz updates for game logic and hence 60FPS is the only choice when developing games for it?

The whole DOOM 4 running at 30FPS was mentioned during the development of RAGE. John Carmack was probably still heavily focused on id Tech 5 development and was merely sharing a 'roadmap'. My guess is he abandoned everything id Tech 5 related when VR technology became the word on the street.

 

[Bishop89]

But DooM games usually have enjoyable gunplay.

I meant in terms of how a modern doom level layout could be like if '90s doom layouts' are out of the question.

 

[Funky Papa]

There are no FPS games around today that emulate or even come close to, specifically, the labrinthyean, expansive and varied nature of some of DooM's biggest and best maps. There just aren't.

• Current day level design: Let's make an awesomely realistic scenario mirrored from the real world and then drop a fuckton of boxes and barrels for cover.
• Doom-like level design: Let's make a kickass labrinth full of demons and choke points.

It's almost funny how the lack of processing power meant that developers had to focus on making the most out of a relatively simple experience, birthing a game that's still infinitely replayable.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

This was already the deal though. The demons burst through the portal and started to incorporate technology from the place they arrived.

Yeah, this is how I've seen it since D1. Doesn't need further explanation and makes for a great horrifying atmosphere.

That would be map 9 of a doom wad (a new set of levels) called Sunder. It's for the original game on PC. A series of slaughtermaps that are difficult as hell.

The architecture though put into some of these levels are incredible.

...and I'm off to download that. I've been stuck on this level for a good while so time to broaden horizons.

 

[TheVampire]

Yes.

So its going to suffer from shit textures even with them set on High on PC like with Rage and Wolfenstein?

Great.

 

[astonish]

Megatexture was a really cool idea, but fell apart because of how lighting was baked in and that also hurt development iteration times. Maybe with new consoles and current PC we could see something like megatextured diffuse, but fully dynamic lighting and more dynamic metallic/shiny surfaces.

A new engine can be as much about the tools as the render these days and this game has been rebooted enough that a "new" enigne with id5 as a starting point might not be out of the question. It would be pretty early to register a trademark for an engine name if its still so early in development. Also I think the naming of the engine and the old circa 2000 "void" engine is purely a coincidence.

Although I've moved on from most FPS games I'd totally do a classic playing doom game. Looking forward to the reveal.

 

[Zing]

Great. Another game re-using the exact same name as a previous game. Sigh.

 

[BigTnaples]

Pumped. I just hope they got the graphics looking good. Just beat wolfenstein today and while awesome, the graphics were absolutely abysmal.


I miss John Carmack showing off Doom III and my mind being blown that such graphics were possible.

 

[shuri]

You guys tend to forget that when Doom came out, it was not the super smooth 60 fps megakill fest. I remember paying 220$ to get 4MB of extra ram so I could play it at nice smooth framerate during big firefights. It really was the equivalent of Crisis at max details or whatever.

With time, Doom became known for massive amounts of enemies on screen at the same time because of the mods, the reworked engines later on.

 

[Brerlappin]

Great. Another game re-using the exact same name as a previous game. Sigh.

It worked out well for Wolfenstein

 

[Sinatar]

It worked out well for Wolfenstein

The 2009 one? It didn't do so hot.

 

[Kajiba]

I'm liking what I see.

 

[Funky Papa]

It worked out well for Wolfenstein

The newest game looks pretty cool, although a bit too modern for my tastes. Still, I would like to try it.

As for the previous Wolfenstein games (2001 and 2009)... those were fucking foul.

 

[Ragnarok]

if you do go for fan made stuff there's a lot that are really good, like back to saturn x

i might just have to take a look! Filtering all of the shit stuff out just seemed like too much of a chore.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

People forget this, but the shotgun was also useful out to a fair distance. Unlike a lot of later FPS shotguns, the Doom shotgun didn't have spread like a waterhose, but had a nice tight grouping of pellets for a good long ways. This was tragically discarded in Doom 3, where the shotgun felt like it had to be fired only when an enemy got within... like, 12-15 feet. The spread on it felt like it was about 45 degrees to either side of the crosshair. Just awful. That needs to be forgotten. Doom 4's shottie needs to go back to the classic Doom model, where you could count on it for medium range encounters.

Point is, the shotgun in Doom and Doom II is always the go-to for most mid-level enemy encounters, having such precision at a distance with reasonable power to boot. Every weapon (sans the pistol, its purpose being to make you want a better gun) has its purpose in a well-designed Doom map, as does every demon vis-a-vis the whole bestiary. There's not that many monsters in Doom or Doom II compared to some other games (Blood has more enemies overall), but there's rarely any functional overlap between them, and they're all so cleverly designed and fun to fight that endless combinations of enemy groups are being built in Doom Builder 2 to this day. So what I find about Doom fan content right now is a mixture of hectic battling (based on either DIY combat or infighting) and complex map layouts that are as readable as they are challenging and immersive to navigate.

Hexen's maps and hub structure are impressive and fun in their own special way, but also frequently obtuse and of no benefit to the mediocre combat. And I couldn't go back to Wolfenstein 3D after Doom, it's that primitive! New Doom needs to channel the verticality of Quake back into the hyperspeed game style that Doom provides so easily. It's super-easy to just import the physics from the public source code and then build new mechanics off of it; the mods coming out for Doom today, like Fractal Doom and Going Medieval On Your Asses, show that there's so much to be done with the formula.

 

[Dictator93]

The newest game looks pretty cool, although a bit too modern for my tastes. Still, I would like to try it.

As for the previous Wolfenstein games (2001 and 2009)... those were fucking foul.

You really do not think RTCW is foul do you?

I cannot speak to wolf '09 (I hear great things though), but RTCW is pretty damn cool imo.

 

[Funky Papa]

I really liked Hexen :'(

You really do not think RTCW is foul do you?

I cannot speak to wolf '09 (I hear great things though), but RTCW is pretty damn cool imo.

It just didn't feel like Wolfenstein. It was something else. Quite flawed, too. It wasn't a terrible game by itself, but it was not worthy of its name.

 

[jim2point0]

If this game ends up being as fun as Wolfenstein, I'm PSYCHED for it. Just imagining it with all the fancy high-tech weaponry and killing demons instead of nazis. Gimme!

 

[Delta Assault]

I liked Heretic and Hexen, but a lot of the enjoyment probably came from the novelty of the fantasy trappings.

 

[G-Fex]

This was already the deal though. The demons burst through the portal and started to incorporate technology from the place they arrived.

That's right, that was all in the intermission text during episodes of Doom 1, the demons went through and taken over the Deimos base and subverted the technology for their bidding, hence why the bases covered in tech wall are also melded with weird gothic evil architecture and why the final boss of Episode 2 is the Cyber-Demon lord.

You missed the point in which the picture is a parody, making fun of the current market. As such, the fact that intends to transmit is amplified by the literary device known as exaggeration. Sheesh.

Anyways, the point still stands. Even Doom's bidimensional maps were massively more complex and open than most modern ones, multi levelled or not. There's a good reason why the launch of a new Crysis or Far Cry game are events by themselves, and that's because they bring something relatively unusual to the market.

Most current day FPS undestand level progression as pushing the player through a level by means such as explosions and moving vehicles, whereas in Doom you could take multiple paths at your own pace, not the one dictated by the developers. One of the things I hate most about CoD and Battlefield is the feeling of being the content inside of a syringe.

That's right, the best Level design in doom wasn't too linear and allowed you to go off and branch a ton of different paths on your way to the exit.

I'm not saying exactly that Giant Level = Great level either cause as I found out via some Pwads that gigantic levels aren't fun really, it all comes down to progression how you said and layout and finally fun. For example, mazes are not fun.

CATHEDRAL ON THE EDGE OF ETERNITY from community megawad Community Chest is HUGE and not exactly a sunday picnic.

3 HOURS of map can drag on a bit too much D:

 

[MrCunningham]

The whole DOOM 4 running at 30FPS was mentioned during the development of RAGE. John Carmack was probably still heavily focused on id Tech 5 development and was merely sharing a 'roadmap'. My guess is he abandoned everything id Tech 5 related when VR technology became the word on the street.

Also Carmack wasn't talking about next gen (current gen) consoles back then. So when he made that 30FPS comment, it was primarily about the PS3 and Xbox360. We don't actually know what the current state of Doom is like... but then again, we never really knew anything about Doom 4 other than it had a few restarts.

My guess is 1080p/30fps on both consoles for parity sake (though the resolution would probably be lower on the Xbone) and an arbitrary framerate and resolution for PC.

I don't think we actually know that yet, do we?

Pretty sure they haven't officially said what engine they're using at this point, but no doubt it's going to be their own in-house engine. I could not imagine them launching Doom4 on some third party engine. That would be so strange.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I really liked Hexen :'(

I really like it myself, but I think it hits its stride at the Shadow Woods hub. Not sure about Heretic as I haven't played much of it yet.

 

[G-Fex]

heretic weapons severely lacked power, it seemed like to mow down enemies you had to rely on a magic book item usage for that extra power.

 

[dr_rus]

So its going to suffer from shit textures even with them set on High on PC like with Rage and Wolfenstein?

Great.

Wolf textures are fine.

 

[Garrus Vakarian]

So because the player moves so quickly in Doom, and because most enemy attacks are dodgeable, the player can avoid a significant amount of damage simply by moving. A skilled player can often deal with large numbers of enemies sustaining hardly a scratch. This creates a feeling that’s quite rare in modern FPS: that you are powerful because you are agile, not because you’re a tank.

This is a fantastic point, it makes a lot of sense when you think about FPS games around today.

 

[Funky Papa]

I can't believe I just discovered Brutal Doom thanks to this thread.

This shit is UNBELIEVABLE.

 

[JaseC]

Wolf textures are fine.

They're certainly better than Rage, since Machine didn't repeat id's profoundly silly mistake of cross-platform parity, but quality is inconsistent.

 

[Mike Golf]

They're certainly better than Rage, since Machine didn't repeat id's profoundly silly mistake of cross-platform parity, but quality is inconsistent.

Agreed, at a distance and paired with it's greatest strength of attempting not to repeat textures they look good; but if you look at just about any texture in Wolf up close it looks awful. I honestly hope the rumors of iD working on a new engine is true and they either greatly enhance their texture streaming and compression tech to have the benefits the current version has but with greater quality textures or just abandon it. I'm really wanting DOOM 4 to be a huge graphical show case like 3 was in 04', but of course bringing back that fast and frantic gun play of 1 and 2.

 

[Luka024]

DOOM's levels need to closely resemble the design language from 1 and 2 for it to be successful. Wolfenstein's moon base mission really nailed that old FPS feel. Really tight corridors with doors that wouldn't open without some thought or exploration, than a vast expanse on the lunar surface connecting to the "exit" so to speak.

If there isn't a moment where I open a door and on the other side is a huge room with 4 or 5 foot soldiers and an equal amount of imps hurling fireballs at me, I will be disappointed to say the very least.

 

[Sinatar]

I can't believe I just discovered Brutal Doom thanks to this thread.

This shit is UNBELIEVABLE.

That minigun.

 

[G-Fex]

I can't believe I just discovered Brutal Doom thanks to this thread.

This shit is UNBELIEVABLE.

there's better out there.

like Project MSX for example

 

[Funky Papa]

there's better out there.

like Project MSX for example

Is this real life?

 

[G-Fex]

Is this real life?

Theres always a ton of GOOD things out there if you look for em Papa

 

[kamspy]

Doom only needs 2 things. State of the art graphics and gory shooting fun.

When they try to add extra shit to that simple formula, shit get's fucked up.

 

[Fancy Clown]

They should do a Doom/Wolfenstein crossover game

 

[Ixion]

i have literally no idea how you successfully make a modern DOOM game.

i dont think you can do it like serious sam or whatever in that old school style and im not sure it will work in a more conventional modern style either.

I think it's pretty simple actually.

iD can make the core gameplay like the original games (emphasizing speed, nonlinearity, unpredictability, and pure fun, rather than scripted sequences and slow horror) while having the overall game more impressive and modern. And what do I mean by that? Open world, co-op, great competitive multiplayer, and state of the art visuals and physics.

 

[G-Fex]

I kinda agree with someone I know who said Quake would be a better fit into the modern.

 

[Ixion]

I kinda agree with someone I know who said Quake would be a better fit into the modern.

It would, but do we really need more games that fit into the modern shooter genre? A proper Doom 4 is exciting because there still aren't many games like the original Doom. Having a game that's pure, fast, all-out, badass, heavy metal fun...that would feel incredibly fresh. You just need to marry that gameplay with aspects that grab the modern gamer while not ruining what makes Doom cool.

 

[JayEH]

I'm excited for this game but I am definitely keeping my expectations in check. I can't think of a game in dev hell that has come out great.

My greatest fear is they try to hard to be CoD with all the cinematic set pieces. The game just needs a shotgun, some demons to shoot, and some sick metal.

 

[Renekton]

So its going to suffer from shit textures even with them set on High on PC like with Rage and Wolfenstein?

Great.

They are fine if you don't hug a wall I guess.