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[Deleted member 80556]

"Get a blog" - Modbot

But honestly, that kind of game is not going to get a serious discussion. 75% of people (including me) will rightly ask why the hell does this game exist, the other 25% will just be amazed at the content and not the game part of the product.

So there really isn't intelligent discussion there. Hell, it might just bleed into other threads and make them worse. Therefore, there's a reason why mods close them down.

Question: Are mods concerned that people will identify them as "that guy or gal who close down that awesome thread" because it might derail discussion and that's why they use Modbot?

 

[Vire]

Murder is a worse crime than rape in almost every society.

I'm not getting into this with you because I rather not be banned. I like this place.

 

[Neiteio]

There definitely are games -- a lot of games -- that fetishize murder. But sexual stuff has a funny effect on our psyche and elicits a stronger emotional reaction than violently eviscerating people, etc.

 

[Sakura]

On the one hand I think "bad precedent".

But on the other hand, what if someone were to make a RapeLay |OT| ?

I guess there is a line somewhere, when you consider the eroge that is out there.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Criminal Girls has no actual nudity or sex. Just suggestive scenes. Not really sure how that can compare to something like Rapelay.

 

[Settin]

I'm not getting into this with you because I rather not be banned. I like this place.

Ok chief. I don't blame you, it's a touchy subject.

 

[Toxi]

Shame free speech is being censored. smh

Free speech? You're on a moderated forum.

 

[BokehKing]

Eh.... I don't think those type of games need to be discussed here..
I mean it's pretty self explanatory.

 

[sn00zer]

Amazingly this is not a free speech zone...so no we cant have threads about pornographic games so no 'LTTP: Custer's Revenge" so no its not setting a precedent its just peple arent normally dumb enough to post about pornography games

 

[HeelPower]

I don't think any commercially available game should have its discussion banned.

discussion may help bring awareness to relatively obscure,good games.

Now if its pornographic and shallow garbage so be it.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I'm pretty okay with that game not being allowed to be discussed after looking it up.

I'd prefer if the fan service weirdos went somewhere else.

Hey now theres nothing wrong with sonic transformed.

 

[Chopper]

Murder is a worse crime than rape in almost every society.

Please don't let this thread turn into one of those threads.

70% of no games

Brutal.

 

[Settin]

Eh.... I don't think those type of games need to be discussed here..
I mean it's pretty self explanatory.

*shrug* if it's going to become an official GAF rule, I'm ok with it.

 

[L Thammy]

Free speech? You're on a moderated forum.

They're using the other definition of free speech, obviously.

 

[Krejlooc]

That's one of the stupidest things I ever heard.

It's called "fallacy of relevance" and it's one of the first sort of logical fallacies taught in any intro level logic class.

 

[ponpo]

Amazingly this is not a free speech zone...so no we cant have threads about pornographic games so no 'LTTP: Custer's Revenge" so no its not setting a precedent its just peple arent normally dumb enough to post about pornography games

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802611

Better close this up, then.

 

[GalacticaN7]

Geez people, calm down.

If they don't want their site associated with a certain kind of game, that is fully their right and prerogative. There are no bad precedents being set. Moderation has more to do with things falling in a gray area and making the best decision at the time while trying to be consistent. For the most part, I think things are handled very well around these parts and Neogaf seems to allow far more discussion on further spectrums than other gaming forums in my experience, while still remaining relatively clean.

In other words, the genre that "Criminal Girls" falls under, I have no objections that Neogaf reserves the right to not allow discussion. It seems like borderline game porn.

 

[Neiteio]

70% of no games

Hahaha, best post in the thread

 

[Zane]

Murder is a worse crime than rape in almost every society.

murder isn't the primary attraction of violent games while fanservice and sexuality is absolutely what grabs your attention when it comes to an h-game

 

[Goldmund]

There definitely are games -- a lot of games -- that fetishize murder. But sexual stuff has a funny effect on our psyche and elicits a stronger emotional reaction than violently eviscerating people, etc.

Maybe I'm an outlier, but no, that's not how it is for me.

I'm personally glad that pornographic content isn't tolerated, but I find gore much, much worse.

 

[Timeless]

I mean... I think any reasonable person can figure out what games probably don't merit discussion on here.

The reason for why new threads are banned is unclear.

• Sexual content?
• How the characters look?
• Ratio of gameplay to sexual scenes?
• Quality of gameplay?

And a few questions.

• Is this game illegal to posses in the USA? If so, why is NIS America releasing it?
• Does Sony want this game on the PS Vita (had to Google to find out what system this game was for)? If not, why hasn't it stopped its release? Sony does have ultimate control over which games come out for its systems.
• Is this the literal only game released for a non-open platform (XBL Indie Games, PC, homebrew) for which the creation of new threads on NeoGAF is banned?

I can think of a few games that have concepts that make me uncomfortable. Is Saints Row 4 allowed because its rapes are comical? Or perhaps because it has good gameplay?

Is it the way the characters look underage? Or that they're being punished? Or that their punishment has a sexual overtone?

Are all underage-looking girl games with oddly sexual scenes banned? Or just the ones with sexualized punishment?

I shouldn't have to say this:
I do not own a Vita. I don't have any Vita games either and this probably won't be my first.

 

[Shizuka]

If this is a trend, it'll be very hard in the future, since more and more companies are going after these games.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

There definitely are games -- a lot of games -- that fetishize murder. But sexual stuff has a funny effect on our psyche and elicits a stronger emotional reaction than violently eviscerating people, etc.

In regards to the bolded, I feel like I need to clarify that there's not a blanket aversion to any and all "sexual stuff."

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Interesting. On one hand the threads always turn into shitfests and the material is borderline Hentai which is banned, while on the other it isn't full on porn and there are legit fans here. A tough one indeed. As slippery of a slope as it might be honestly I say ban the topic. It's either ban the topic or ban the thread derailers, and honestly I'm not sure if the extra mod work would be worth it.

 

[L Thammy]

Does that Modbot post mean "nobody post Criminal Girls threads" or "you in particular should not make Criminal Girls threads because the results are bad"? I could read it either way.

Repeating this.

 

[Tohsaka]

Geez people, calm down.

If they don't want their site associated with a certain kind of game, that is fully their right and prerogative. There are no bad precedents being set. Moderation has more to do with things falling in a gray area and making the best decision at the time while trying to be consistent. For the most part, I think things are handled very well around these parts and Neogaf seems to allow far more discussion on further spectrums than other gaming forums in my experience, while still remaining relatively clean.

In other words, the genre that "Criminal Girls" falls under, I have no objections that Neogaf reserves the right to not allow discussion. It seems like borderline game porn.

There are threads about games that literally are game porn that are allowed, though.

 

[Vire]

There definitely are games -- a lot of games -- that fetishize murder. But sexual stuff has a funny effect on our psyche and elicits a stronger emotional reaction than violently eviscerating people, etc.

I think there's a clear distinction between "sexual themes" and underage looking girls in sexual punishment mini games.

C'mon Neiteio.

 

[Krejlooc]

There are threads about games that literally are game porn that are allowed, though.

Then, logically, those threads shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Risette]

The reason for why new threads are banned is unclear.

• Sexual content?
• How the characters look?
• Ratio of gameplay to sexual scenes?
• Quality of gameplay?

Another likely reason is that all the threads about it descend into "PEDOS!!!" "um no!!!" back and forth shitposting. It just creates noise on the forum.

 

[Brakke]

If only there was an entire rest of the Internet where you can go to talk about this "game".

 

[s_mirage]

"Dangerous".

This is a discussion forum, yes? It is a dangerous precedent for a place where discussion is its raison d'être to have topics banned based on unclear reasoning or appeals to "right thinking". If discussion of something is to be banned, surely the ban has to be consistent with the stated rules of the forum, and those alone.

 

[Settin]

murder isn't the primary attraction of violent games while fanservice and sexuality is absolutely what grabs your attention when it comes to an h-game

It could easily be argued in the reverse, but like I said if it's an official GAF rule I'm ok with it. Mods anonymously closing threads through modbot because one person doesn't like it is not what GAF is about.

 

[Tohsaka]

Then, logically, those threads shouldn't be allowed.

One would think so.

 

[Crayons]

murder isn't the primary attraction of violent games while fanservice and sexuality is absolutely what grabs your attention when it comes to an h-game

.

 

[Pickles Spill]

"Get a blog" - Modbot

But honestly, that kind of game is not going to get a serious discussion. 75% of people (including me) will rightly ask why the hell does this game exist, the other 25% will just be amazed at the content and not the game part of the product.

So there really isn't intelligent discussion there. Hell, it might just bleed into other threads and make them worse. Therefore, there's a reason why mods close them down.

Question: Are mods concerned that people will identify them as "that guy or gal who close down that awesome thread" because it might derail discussion and that's why they use Modbot?

There we go. If the thread were a critical discussion of the game and it got locked, I could see why some would get upset. But if a thread is 90% omg what is that lol, with no discussion going on, it should be locked. That's a big problem with other forums. They allow "discussion threads" with no actual discussion taking place. I don't think it's the content in the game, rather the quality of discussion.

 

[jay]

I'd prefer if the fan service weirdos went somewhere else.

I am torn because I agree with you (and have found a correlation between being into creepy anime and never seeing anything as sexist), but generally banning threads on specific games without a clear policy sits uneasily with me. As for a good working policy, how about no threads on games with prepubescent characters being molested?

 

[Neiteio]

murder isn't the primary attraction of violent games while fanservice and sexuality is absolutely what grabs your attention when it comes to an h-game

I agree h-games are shit, but I wouldn't say murder in games is much better. In a best-case scenario, the player is not enjoying the concept of murder but rather the feedback to their actions, I.E. people flying back from an explosion the player created. But there are definitely scenarios in games where the appeal is supposed to come from role-playing acts of sadism, which is perverse and something that turns me off in games, unless it's incredibly over-the-top and tongue-in-cheek, like with Bulletstorm (although I suppose some could argue these h-games are capable of similar levity).

 

[terrisus]

Reading over the thread (and that particular thread was pretty reasonable with some good discussion too, it's not even like there was much posting of pictures from the game or anything) - yeah, how does a thread like that get locked, while threads about games where you murder people, torture people, whatever other sick and disgusting things are done in games these days, doing all sorts of other horrible things to people stay open and have big threads about them?

No, rape isn't acceptable. Of course.
Neither is sexual assult on minors.

But then, neither is murder.
Neither is torture.
Neither is a good portion of other stuff that you see in many games.

I thought most people here were of the mindset of "It's just a video game!" and against restrictions on video games and such.

To be clear, I'm not specifically trying to make a case in favor of games involving rape, sexual assault, etc.
More like I find games which involve murder, torture, etc. to be disgusting as well - and yet there's plenty of discussion about games like that here.

So, why is all that other stuff fine to discuss here?

 

[aspiegamer]

I don't think any commercially available game should have its discussion banned.

I was thinking about saying this originally, and dead-on. If the good folks down at the ESRB consider it suitable for general consumption who are we to object?!?

/UnfortunatelyNotKidding

That'd be an actual official metric to define what games are not permitted threads on NeoGAF in general discussion, so I vote for this. Anything else is just a complex-but-subjective "eew, I don't like this kind of stuff" debate.

 

[BokehKing]

I honestly think we should just let this thread die... If it stays open, someone is going to say something dumb and get themselves banned defending a smut game, it's not worth it. Let's go back to arguing over moneyhatting, wii-u slowly coming back into the spotlight and the admiration of Destiny.

 

[ponpo]

There we go. If the thread were a critical discussion of the game and it got locked, I could see why some would get upset. But if a thread is 90% omg what is that lol, with no discussion going on, it should be locked. That's a big problem with other forums. They allow "discussion threads" with no actual discussion taking place.

So the solution is to ban the threads themselves instead of the numerous people going "dam wat is this y'all are pedos lmao guybackingoutofroom.gif"?

Again I don't really care for these threads but I imagine more and more threads will turn out like this so you may as well blanket ban any similar ero-scene title discussion.

 

[El Sloth]

It's porn disguised as a game, get a grip.

I feel like this could be said about a few games that I see pop up on Vita. And then there's this:

"it's a murder simulator disguised as a game, dude"

It's not my business what people choose to enjoy themselves with. I just want to know where line is and what people think of the decision. Is that so terrible?

On the one hand I think "bad precedent".

But on the other hand, what if someone were to make a RapeLay |OT| ?

I guess there is a line somewhere, when you consider the eroge that is out there.

Right, the same thing went through my head when making the thread. "Well, what about RapeLay?"

Honestly, I don't think I would be very comfortable with a totes4serious RapeLay thread. Which makes me a hypocrite in the end. Then again, what would there be to discuss about that "game"?

On second thought, don't actually answer that.

The people who like the Criminal Girls game say there's something more there than just the borderline erotica stuff though, so there is that.

 

[Clefargle]

We still discuss Mortal Kombat games.

Pretty much this

 

[Coxy]

Another likely reason is that all the threads about it descend into "PEDOS!!!" "um no!!!" back and forth shitposting. It just creates noise on the forum.

that happens in a lot of threads for very innocuous games though

 

[Brakke]

This is a discussion forum, yes? It is a dangerous precedent for a place where discussion is its raison d'être to have topics banned based on unclear reasoning or appeals to "right thinking". If discussion of something is to be banned, surely the ban has to be consistent with the stated rules of the forum, and those alone.

But what is the danger. There are literally no stakes. OP of that thread wasn't even banned. If someone who didn't know better posted another thread for this game, it'll probably be quietly closed without banning that OP if they're sincerely ignorant.

Mods aren't under any obligation to make a perfectly consistent rubric. That's the whole reason this place has mods: they're case-to-case judgement is valuable.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Interesting. On one hand the threads always turn into shitfests and the material is borderline Hentai which is banned, while on the other it isn't full on porn and there are legit fans here. A tough one indeed. As slippery of a slope as it might be honestly I say ban the topic. It's either ban the topic or ban the thread derailers, and honestly I'm not sure if the extra mod work would be worth it.

No one is properly moderating the topics anyways since the precedent has become to just thread shit on both sides. You can't post without people highlighting they're disgusted with it along the people who buy it, or the idiots highlighting problematic areas and reveling in it like pigs, and actual gameplay and information? It's a handful of posts because the thread is being shit all over. No one is actually doing any proper work in these threads and it shows.

 

[Sakura]

• Is this game illegal to posses in the USA? If so, why is NIS America releasing it?
• Does Sony want this game on the PS Vita (had to Google to find out what system this game was for)? If not, why hasn't it stopped its release? Sony does have ultimate control over which games come out for its systems.

These are the reasons why I think it is weird discussion is banned. This is a game, releasing in the west, on the Vita. That means the content in the game is not illegal, and that Sony is ok with it coming out. We aren't allowed to discuss a Vita game just because it is too risque?

Another likely reason is that all the threads about it descend into "PEDOS!!!" "um no!!!" back and forth shitposting. It just creates noise on the forum.

Isn't that what moderation is for? Should we just ban talk of everything that results in too much shitposting...?

 

[Uraizen]

Another likely reason is that all the threads about it descend into "PEDOS!!!" "um no!!!" back and forth shitposting. It just creates noise on the forum.

Ding, ding, ding. Call it thread shitting and see what happens without garbage posts.

 

[jay]

No one is properly moderating the topics anyways since the president has become to just thread shit on both sides.

 

[L Thammy]

I agree h-games are shit, but I wouldn't say murder in games is much better. In a best-case scenario, the player is not enjoying the concept of murder but rather the feedback to their actions, I.E. people flying back from an explosion the player created. But there are definitely scenarios in games where the appeal is supposed to come from role-playing acts of sadism, which is perverse and something that turns me off in games, unless it's incredibly over-the-top and tongue-in-cheek, like with Bulletstorm (although I suppose some could argue these h-games are capable of similar levity).

Just for information's sake, note that there's actually a scale of how hentai is used in games. In some games, it's totally superfluous, and it's basically just used as a vehicle to sell a dramatic story. In those cases, game is often able to move to a more acceptable media form (such as a handheld game or an anime) and the hentai scenes are totally removed. In other games, it's very much the selling point, and there would basically be no game if not for hentai.

 

[ohlawd]

70% of no games

yo watch out

dem Vita fans gunnin' for you now