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Gamespot's procedurally generated No Man's Sky daily previews/reveals! 7/7 to 7/10
- Thread starter Netherscourge
- Start date
Didn't these unlock earlier in the day for the first 3 parts? Are they just toying with our emotions?
legacyzero
Banned
I hope these vids can help to bring peoples expectations into more of a realistic level. So far, they've helped me to understand a bit better what they are aiming for.
valkillmore
Member
Is it too much to ask for even five minutes of raw gameplay? I highly doubt that will spoil the game for us. I am already buying it, I 'get' what they're going for, at least based on what info they've let out, now let me see some shit!
Just any new in-game footage would be nice. So far it seems to all be recycled.
legacyzero
Banned
Yeah. I really wanna see more!
Funky Functionality
Member
Haven't really learned much from these videos that wasn't already available in any number of the articles/interviews about the game, but it is nice to see more examples of the animal/ship variation in those brief development clips.
Anyway, of what little we know, what is everyone most looking forward to doing?
I just want to be an interstellar wildlife photographer. Stealthy suit upgrades, yes? Stalking dangerous game, yes? Yes.
Anyway, of what little we know, what is everyone most looking forward to doing?
I just want to be an interstellar wildlife photographer. Stealthy suit upgrades, yes? Stalking dangerous game, yes? Yes.
Is that a bad thing? Spore and this game are completely different in gameplay. You're not playing God to create the life, you're flying around the galaxy exploring the life that was already generated, being able to interact with it at a more basic level from a first person perspective along with having an economy, AI opponents, ship upgrades, space battles, etc.
There seems to be this popular idea that because Spore had similar life generation tools, it means this game will equally suck. I don't see the similarities in gameplay at all.
legacyzero
Banned
I just wanna be lost in space.
Funky Functionality
Member
Yeah, I really hope the vast expanses between stars are properly navigable with the right ship--of course, a "jump" mechanic between star systems would be crucial, but I hope it's optional--more than a few times, I'd like to be able to drop anchor in interstellar space and gaze upon this enormous galaxy.
serversurfer
Member
Why not just play it on your PS4 with Morpheus?
BouncyFrag
Member
The first thing I want to do is to explore an entire planet, just one to see if the vastness of this game's procedural construction and game play is as incredible as these videos are making it sound. Games such as the first Mass Effect did let us explore planets but only a small patch of that world with a handful of waypoints to check out. I'm not sure how well NMS can deliver on this since it seems so mind boggling. If this game can pull it off, oh boy!
Veritigo_X
Member
Sounds like they are using some variation of simplex noise to generate the planets the same every time. The way the algorithm is described leads me to think this.
For those that don't know, simplex noise is a form of white noise that generates a values from -1 to 1 which can be used to create a height map:
You then create multiple 'octaves' at different frequencies and transpose the different octaves on top of one another to create the final height map and terrain:
Basically, as you walk around the world you pass the players coordinates (and surrounding coords) into the simplex noise generator and it returns the same values every time. There's some more complex algorithms going on to add erosion and other effects to make each planet different, but I'm willing to bet that this is the backbone of the game.
I'm pretty sure it's similar to what Minecraft or Space Engine uses to create their procedural worlds to give you an idea. Personally, I love messing with simplex noise in my little game projects because it allows me to do less work and still get impressive results. Check it out if you're into programming and whatnot because it's pretty cool stuff!
For those that don't know, simplex noise is a form of white noise that generates a values from -1 to 1 which can be used to create a height map:
You then create multiple 'octaves' at different frequencies and transpose the different octaves on top of one another to create the final height map and terrain:
Basically, as you walk around the world you pass the players coordinates (and surrounding coords) into the simplex noise generator and it returns the same values every time. There's some more complex algorithms going on to add erosion and other effects to make each planet different, but I'm willing to bet that this is the backbone of the game.
I'm pretty sure it's similar to what Minecraft or Space Engine uses to create their procedural worlds to give you an idea. Personally, I love messing with simplex noise in my little game projects because it allows me to do less work and still get impressive results. Check it out if you're into programming and whatnot because it's pretty cool stuff!
Netherscourge
Banned
The first thing I'm going to do is hop into a ship (if I have one), point it upward toward the sky in one direction, hit the gas pedal and see how far it'll go before I either hit a planet, get shot out of space, run out of gas, or simply disintegrate due to not having the proper armor plating or whatever it needs to get farther away from where I began.
If the distances and scale are anything resembling the real universe, you probably wouldn't hit anything, ever.
Icyflamez96
Member
Black skies confirmed
I think at least once I would like to fly into a sun.
But before that I would explore the whole planet before heading out into space. Does anyone know if we can have more than one ship? I would like a fleet, a ship designed for different circumstances possibly housed in a mother ship (all of my own devising).
Maybe I'm taking it too far but what about bio-ships?
But before that I would explore the whole planet before heading out into space. Does anyone know if we can have more than one ship? I would like a fleet, a ship designed for different circumstances possibly housed in a mother ship (all of my own devising).
Maybe I'm taking it too far but what about bio-ships?
Didn't they mention in an interview or one of the vids that the time to travel and planet entry would be short or quick (I'm remembering from memory so forgive me)?
I will probably do that as well. My wallet is the only thing stopping me considering I've already purchased a DK2.
Nice!
This coverage format is really great. I hope Gamespot keeps going with it.
Liberty4all
Banned
I hope to make it to the centre of the galaxy to find a huge interstellar multiplayer war in progress.
Or to start one.
Or to start one.
serversurfer
Member
Ah, right on.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
If you hit true 'Up' you leave the galactic disc and get swallowed by Yog-Sothoth.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I think they're just saying that because there will literally be millions (perhaps billions) of planets in this game, and no two will be exactly the same (although I do expect that you will see a few quite similar ones if you visit enough of them). So while they obviously know the rules that create all this variation, they cannot possibly know what you will see when you visit location X on planet Y.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Imagine if that was possible in the game.
legacyzero
Banned
I want a super-massive black hole at the center like normal. Once you enter it, you're shown the worlds most coveted trailer.
Half Life 3
serversurfer
Member
Well, they would if one of their bots had already done a flyby. I was under the impression that the shape of the universe would be determined as it was being explored.
I suppose it doesn't make much difference either way though, and pre-seeding would make it a lot easier to mix online and offline play. I wonder if our home planets will be pre-seeded too.
ichtyander
Member
Well, that was a nice video. All in all, these videos didn't really show anything new but at least this might help some people understand the procedural stuff a bit more clearly and we got a glimpse of the creature and ship variations based on the currently selected creatures.
As Murray says, they create a cat and at the same time it serves as a base for a lion or a tiger. But ultimately, these felines will look very similar to one another, with additional cosmetic differences. The diversity of these creatures (as well as the flora and ships for that matter) depends on how many "cats" or different base species they design and the complexity of the rules governing their randomization and mixing. For example, looking at the folder paths for the triceratops creatures:
MODELS\PLANETS\BIOMES\RAINFOREST\LARGECREATURE\TRICERATOPS\QUADRUPEDS (I assume)
We can see that the base triceratops body has color variations, additional 3D details like fins or spikes, body\limb size variations and what's interesting, a different head. In this case, I can spot an actual triceratops head, a rhino head and what might be a rodent head(?). Now, I'm assuming the reason we are seeing such similar variations of the triceratops is because they clicked the "View Variants" button to show the closest variants. However, it could also mean that they don't really have that many variables so the creatures and ships might end up much more similar than we might hope (hence only three head variations). On the other hand, there just might be even more variations and groups in their algorithms, like having tripods, hexapedal creatures, insectoid, reptilian or birdlike heads and more importantly, allowing them to actually mix with one another.
I'd rather have a three-legged cow with dragon wings and a mosquito head than three different quadrupeds with a color variation and similar dinosaur heads. But honestly, it's a bit early to tell and it's probably not fair to judge the variety of their creatures or ships at this stage. I just hope that they're aware that all of the variations we've seen on these videos have somewhat minor differences overall and that for their system to truly shine, they'd need a huge catalog of base creatures and a very sleek but controlled way of making outlandish combinations. It's like in Borderlands 2, there are about 17 million combinations I think, but you really only have like 8 base weapons. Now if they'd make like a couple hundred base creatures in NMS and allow them to have wild combinations, that would be swell. On the other hand, I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation to have. To be fair, how many different designs of land speeders and space ships can we actually expect in Destiny? A dozen at most? Maybe even less? I'm sure we'll have at least that many base ship variations in NMS and probably a bit more.
The problem with this procedural approach is that you'll actually get "infinite" ship variants, and once you get so many, you're faced with an overchoice which can have a negative effect, at least in terms of having the illusion of choosing a somewhat unique ship you wish to call your own. I guess we could look at it like Borderlands or Diablo, where they have a relatively low number of base items but a massive collection of variations grouped into classes, quality, enchantments and whatnot. I mean, it works for them, so it should theoretically work for NMS as well. It's just that this time, each of these ships will all actually have some small difference from one another.
As Murray says, they create a cat and at the same time it serves as a base for a lion or a tiger. But ultimately, these felines will look very similar to one another, with additional cosmetic differences. The diversity of these creatures (as well as the flora and ships for that matter) depends on how many "cats" or different base species they design and the complexity of the rules governing their randomization and mixing. For example, looking at the folder paths for the triceratops creatures:
MODELS\PLANETS\BIOMES\RAINFOREST\LARGECREATURE\TRICERATOPS\QUADRUPEDS (I assume)
We can see that the base triceratops body has color variations, additional 3D details like fins or spikes, body\limb size variations and what's interesting, a different head. In this case, I can spot an actual triceratops head, a rhino head and what might be a rodent head(?). Now, I'm assuming the reason we are seeing such similar variations of the triceratops is because they clicked the "View Variants" button to show the closest variants. However, it could also mean that they don't really have that many variables so the creatures and ships might end up much more similar than we might hope (hence only three head variations). On the other hand, there just might be even more variations and groups in their algorithms, like having tripods, hexapedal creatures, insectoid, reptilian or birdlike heads and more importantly, allowing them to actually mix with one another.
I'd rather have a three-legged cow with dragon wings and a mosquito head than three different quadrupeds with a color variation and similar dinosaur heads. But honestly, it's a bit early to tell and it's probably not fair to judge the variety of their creatures or ships at this stage. I just hope that they're aware that all of the variations we've seen on these videos have somewhat minor differences overall and that for their system to truly shine, they'd need a huge catalog of base creatures and a very sleek but controlled way of making outlandish combinations. It's like in Borderlands 2, there are about 17 million combinations I think, but you really only have like 8 base weapons. Now if they'd make like a couple hundred base creatures in NMS and allow them to have wild combinations, that would be swell. On the other hand, I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation to have. To be fair, how many different designs of land speeders and space ships can we actually expect in Destiny? A dozen at most? Maybe even less? I'm sure we'll have at least that many base ship variations in NMS and probably a bit more.
The problem with this procedural approach is that you'll actually get "infinite" ship variants, and once you get so many, you're faced with an overchoice which can have a negative effect, at least in terms of having the illusion of choosing a somewhat unique ship you wish to call your own. I guess we could look at it like Borderlands or Diablo, where they have a relatively low number of base items but a massive collection of variations grouped into classes, quality, enchantments and whatnot. I mean, it works for them, so it should theoretically work for NMS as well. It's just that this time, each of these ships will all actually have some small difference from one another.
legacyzero
Banned
Good info.
So I'm a bit confused, though.. If the info isn't stored on the disc, and not in the cloud, then where is it? Are the algorithms on the disc instead of information about the planets?
Also, the idea that if you leave the planet, that it's thrown away until you or somebody else goes there again, I find that disappointing. Because if I'm thinking about it right, that means you can't have a home on any planet.. A place to build, and then store my loot if I wanted. Because it would all be gone once I get back..
Right?
Like Starbound. Starbound is an awesome game, (and will be better once it's finished, and once I'm playing it on Vita) and it allows you to just pick any planet to call home. Build a base there, store all your loot, etc. It'll be unfortunate if you can't do that in NMS. Not game-breaking by any stretch, but would be a bummer.
So I'm a bit confused, though.. If the info isn't stored on the disc, and not in the cloud, then where is it? Are the algorithms on the disc instead of information about the planets?
Also, the idea that if you leave the planet, that it's thrown away until you or somebody else goes there again, I find that disappointing. Because if I'm thinking about it right, that means you can't have a home on any planet.. A place to build, and then store my loot if I wanted. Because it would all be gone once I get back..
Right?
Like Starbound. Starbound is an awesome game, (and will be better once it's finished, and once I'm playing it on Vita) and it allows you to just pick any planet to call home. Build a base there, store all your loot, etc. It'll be unfortunate if you can't do that in NMS. Not game-breaking by any stretch, but would be a bummer.
Veritigo_X
Member
The planets and terrain are generated on the fly using their algorithm (I talked about a possible method of doing this a couple posts up) so there is no info about planets stored on disk.
As for storing items on planets, it looks like there's some server side info being sent to the client about the planet once it's discovered. I've read that a planet can be fully mined of resources, so I figure that's stored on a server too. It could be possible to drop stuff off into a box of some sort on a planet and have the contents and location uploaded to the server.
I'm not sure if this is planned since they seem to be focusing on your ship being your home and you're constantly going from planet to planet.
Funky Functionality
Member
I wouldn't think this would be an issue, for the same reasons it's not an issue in Starbound. Each planet is uniquely identifiable, and it wouldn't take much data to track the locations/orientations of, say, markers players could leave behind on the planet's surface. A simple model, simple texture on the game disc for the marker, then coordinates on a sphere, a coordinate for height above/below sea level, then save that small amount of data and hold onto it until that particular planet loads again. There could be a routine that checks for player-placed objects whenever a specific LOD transition occurs, and boom, there's your marker. Or the crate you left behind with "loot" in it. Or what have you.
From the way they talk about multiplayer (the Journey/Dark Souls references especially), much of these types of things would be saved to each player's machine--that is to say you wouldn't see the markers your friend left behind when (if) you visit a planet he has visited. However, they've confirmed some "major" events will be reported--like when a planet's resources have been entirely depleted. Changes of that nature must be uploaded somewhere/downloaded by your game regularly to stay up to date, and they're tracked on a planet-by-planet basis... so I really wouldn't worry about meaningful changes to a planet being lost when you leave... I would just count on an eternally-growing local save file.
edit: so beat
RoadHazard
Gold Member
No, everything will be the same for every player, whether anyone has been there before or not. It's "just math", and it will give the same results every time. A certain location on a certain planet will always have the same hill in the same place, etc. Watch the latest video if you haven't, they explain exactly this.
this thread or the game's official thread should be on the first page of GAF every time I visit, till this game comes out and afterwords.
My God am I excited to experience this....I have this co-worker/friend (Beautiful young lady) who loves Math...I think she'll get a kick out of this video.
seventynine
Member
Don't know if this has been mentioned, either by the Devs or by those interested here, but I'd love the opportunity to send off a Voyager-like probe with a message or gifts for someone to find. If the likelihood of bumping into someone else is so very remote then this could be quite special.
GoofsterStud
Member
Yes. PS4 first, then PC.
bigboss370
Member
so night time?
interesting, did not know this. thats a pretty huge get.
=======
what would be really, really cool is if we we could fly through gas planets. Nowhere to land, but just fly through, maybe experience weather and storms inside the gas planet. Get stuck in tornadoes or typhoons. Find mystery artifacts hidden in them?
Saint of Killers
Member
I'm sure it will be released on PC but let's be honest about it; it hasn't officially been announced for PC yet. I'm just being anal for the sake of clarity.
YouTube version of 4th video hasn't gone up yet ¬_¬
YouTube version of 4th video hasn't gone up yet ¬_¬
probably yes, or maybe there are planets and moons without atmosphere (like our moon), in that case the sky should be black.so night time?
legacyzero
Banned
I am SOOOOOO day-one-ing this game just to put my name on as many planets as possible.
EmptySpace
Banned
yep. some people's expectations are through the roof that they'll blame the game if it didn't meet their unrealistic expectations.
btw, kudos to gamespot for securing this featurette and doing a great job at it.
EmptySpace
Banned
then again i don't want the animals on other planets to look like animals from earth. that is as ridiculous as those aliens in movies that look like humanoids. some animals on earth look more alien than the aliens in movies.
Thank goodness they changed it.Yes, it's the leaked controller that we saw before the actual reveal
On topic, this game idea is super ambitious. I hope they succeed because it's a great idea
Not that I've read. It's an interesting question though. The game really should operate just fine offline, but the whole discovery mechanic gets weird. If you discover something while offline, but someone else discovered it first while online it creates a messy situation.
EmptySpace
Banned
wouldn't that just mean that spot on the universe won't be with planets that you've discovered but just with other players'?
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