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[Vitor711]

For everyone mentioning that the time commitment would just make it unfeasible, and the lack of communication wouldn't help - has anyone here played DOTA? Because, for one, I doubt these raids will take multiple hours.

And second, I've had some great hour-long or more games on DOTA with 4 randoms who don't say a damned thing. It's not the norm, but it shows it's possible. I see no reason to limit choice when it comes to match making.

If people have a shitty experience, they won't pick the mode again. Simple. But they might have a great one. Why not give them that chance?

 

[megalowho]

Having the option would mean that people would be non-stop throwing themselves into a brick fucking wall when they are getting matched up with randoms.

So the better alternative is to gate it off completely? Even if you try and fail with a PUG, at least you can experience the content.

 

[Recall]

And it also destroyed WoW raiding for good.

Giving people a choice destroyed raiding?

Choices are never bad.

 

[Sai-kun]

What would be wrong with having a lower difficulty with lower rewards for people that would like to see this content but are unable to have a dedicated group?

Oh my god I'm flashing back to the WoW forums with nerds complaining that people who aren't as dedicated shouldn't be able to complete content in the game

Destinyplayers.txt is the new wowplayers.txt

 

[BigDug13]

The game isn't out you have no idea on amount of content, the same as no one really knew with Borderlands until it came out and they added DLC.

I'm talking about the base game with no DLC. BL2 has a metric asston of content outside of the 2 raids it came with. I've never even seen Vermivorous.

Maybe Destiny won't though. But that's for a different thread.

 

[Nokagi]

Why not just make it so randoms forming a raid can speak to each other? Is that too hard to do in 2014?

 

[semprfi17]

There goes my attempt at raids. The Destiny Gaf I have on my friends list I haven't even played with since they were doing their own thing that didn't match what I wanted to do at the time and the only friend I have that's planning on getting the game as well has a completely different work schedule than I do. Thanks bungie for making it even harder to completely play the whole game

 

[Flipyap]

Limiting this to friends is a noble(ish) idea, too bad their social features are so rudimentary that matchmaking would actually be a more reliable way of finding people willing to endure this mode.
With no way to communicate with your clan from inside the game, you'll have to keep inviting people from your friends list at random, hoping that 5 of them will happen to be willing to spend the supposed 4-16+ hours in a single mode and didn't just sign in for a quick match in the Crucible.
This sounds like a design choice that only works in an isolated game development environment and would completely fall apart in a real world scenario.

 

[BTM]

I think major thing will be communication. Right now, what we played in the beta only allowed you to talk to your fireteam. Bungie isn't doing proximity chat because they don't want you to run into that one guy screaming or playing music into his mic and ruin the game for you.

By not allowing matchmaking or voice chat with strangers, they are putting a premium on making sure you can establish a group of people in order to compete these raids. It might suck for people who don't have 5 other friends playing the game at the same time who want to run a raid and with them being multiple hours long, it may be even harder to establish those groups. We'll be fine here on GAF since we can set groups up here than meet up online but not everyone has that luxury of a community like ours.

I wish they would allow proximity chat or an option for it. If someone is being annoying, you can always mute them.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Are you sure? Maybe I've had bad luck but I never heard anyone speaking in my fireteams except when I was grouped with people on my friend list.

I literally heard no-one until I did DGAF Fire Team Crucible/Strikes, didn't have to specially add anyone for coms, was just auto.

Having said that, I didn't see any other people with mics beside their names during the whole Beta, I just assumed everyone was ghettoing it up with no headsets or something (apart from the DGAF master race) lol.

 

[CREMSteve]

I don't see why they wouldn't allow the option. Not everyone has friends playing Destiny, heck, not everyone has five friends.

 

[ultron87]

Having the option would mean that people would be non-stop throwing themselves into a brick fucking wall when they are getting matched up with randoms.

They should still be able to try it! They'd probably be ignoring a "yo, this shit is hard and requires coordination" warning. Random groups would start with a really shitty completion percentage. This happens in all MMOs. As more and more people try it and premade groups get further the knowledge of how the fights work and what to do will disseminate through the player base. Eventually you'll be able to join a group and everyone will know what to do. Or the overall increasing gear level of the players will make up for lack of coordination.

It was a beautiful thing in vanilla WoW when everyone was first getting to 60 and didn't know what to do or where to go in the instances. Then a few months went by and any random ass group with a decent leader could get those things done.

I would totally support some restriction like "you have to have a microphone plugged in" for Matchmaking or something like that, but totally cutting it off is silly.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Game is slowly looking more and more like it won't suit my life as a parent. Oh well.

 

[Kun Aguero]

Why not have both ?

Exactly. I don't see the point of penalising anyone who won't have 6 Destiny playing friends on their list.

 

[Maintenance]

Oh my god I'm flashing back to the WoW forums with nerds complaining that people who aren't as dedicated shouldn't be able to complete content in the game

But but they shouldn't! I spent my whole week farming to do this boss, why should they be able to just pop in and do it? This is so unfair.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Alebrije]

Is this just a multiplayer mode (raids)? Will be other multiplayer modes that will let you play on random teams?

I have friends and even sometimes to join for a TLOU matches is dificult so we usually play with a random player on our team.

If you can only form teams with friends on multiplayer I will cancel my white preorder

 

[Homeboyd]

Leroy Jenkins, do you see what you've done?

 

[Xplatformer]

When I heard raid i thought it would be a lot more than 6 players....I thought they would be around 12-16

Also what's wrong with just having the option? Basically you can only do raids when you somehow manage to get all 6 people on at once which isn't the easiest thing to do these days with everyone having different schedules.

This is going to be the most unsocial, social game ever created.

You want to talk about unsocial? Try gaming with five other randoms and none of them bother to use a mic to coordinate attacks.

I love Bungie's vision for their raids.

Aww. I don't have any friends who play Destiny ;-;.

You need to have more GAF friends just for Destiny.

I thought destiny wasn't an MMO. This sounds dumb and bungie should stop referring to this game as social its far from social at this point.

So your idea of social doesn't match Bungie's or mine. Does that make yours any more or less valid than mine? No? k then.

 

[Schweinehund]

Of course you are allowed to attempt anything you like.

Bungie is just not making a dedicated hopper to funnel randoms into the raid. And with good reason.

Maybe they'll add a lesser difficulty later and open it up to randoms, who knows. It kind of defeats the purpose of the raid though.

wat

They're not removing your difficulty, so whats the problem? Sounds like elitism to me.

 

[constantstatic]

Why? Have you not played games like WOW or any decent MMORPG? When raiding in difficult areas you need some hardcore players. Usually you get some great items when you put in the work. Playing with some randoms is a recipe for disaster.

I thought destiny wasn't an MMO. This sounds dumb and bungie should stop referring to this game as social its far from social at this point.

 

[Orayn]

Is this just a multiplayer mode (raids)? Will be other multiplayer modes that will let you play on random teams?

I have friends and even sometimes to join for a TLOU matches is dificult so we usually play with a random player on our team.

If you can only form teams with friends on multiplayer I will cancel my white preorder

Strikes are shorter dungeons that will match you with a team if you join them alone.

You also get a team in PvP.

 

[Serick]

Giving people a choice destroyed raiding?

Choices are never bad.

The simple fact that raid content can be slept through in WoW while you drool on your keyboard has completely destroyed the sense of accomplishment that raiding used to carry. He's spot on with his statement.

Even Blizzard realizes that LFR has been a detriment to normal and heroic raiding and are trying to fix this by taking away tier sets and trinkets away from the LFR crowd, but it's too small of a gesture to fix the real issue.

 

[Karl Hawk]

Is this just a multiplayer mode (raids)? Will be other multiplayer modes that will let you play on random teams?

I have friends and even sometimes to join for a TLOU matches is dificult so we usually play with a random player on our team.

If you can only form teams with friends on multiplayer I will cancel my white preorder

Strikes and PvP allow you to play with randoms. Only raids don't have randoms matchmaking.

 

[Sai-kun]

But but they shouldn't! I spent my whole week farming to do this boss, why should they be able to just pop in and do it? This is so unfair.

Spoiler

/s

Please cite your sources

The simple fact that raid content can be slept through in WoW while you drool on your keyboard has completely destroyed the sense of accomplishment that raiding used to carry. He's spot on with his statement.

Even Blizzard realizes that LFR has been a detriment to normal and heroic raiding and are trying to fix this by taking away tier sets and trinkets away from the LFR crowd, but it's too small of a gesture to fix the real issue.

LOL

 

[Nyx]

Exactly. Wanna play with randoms? There are a ton of other options for that.

Yeah, but, I want that flashy +300 dmg Rifle just as much as the next guy.

 

[Xamtheking]

There goes my attempt at raids. The Destiny Gaf I have on my friends list I haven't even played with since they were doing their own thing that didn't match what I wanted to do at the time and the only friend I have that's planning on getting the game as well has a completely different work schedule than I do. Thanks bungie for making it even harder to completely play the whole game

DestinyGaf will grow

Is this just a multiplayer mode (raids)? Will be other multiplayer modes that will let you play on random teams?

I have friends and even sometimes to join for a TLOU matches is dificult so we usually play with a random player on our team.

If you can only form teams with friends on multiplayer I will cancel my white preorder

Only Raids won't have matchmaking
Strikes/PvP will

 

[KevinG]

With a newborn daughter, I simply won't have the ability to set aside a few solid hours to play this mode. As awesome as it sounds, the time investment is more of a hinderence than needing more friends on PS4 (I've got two people I know personally wth one, and two I know with a One).

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Now that I think about it, proximity chat in The Tower would be amazing for people trying to sort a Raid group.

Bungie, pls.

 

[Avari]

Having the option would mean that people would be non-stop throwing themselves into a brick fucking wall when they are getting matched up with randoms.

It's a mode dedicated to pre-made groups that use mics. It's specifically designed just for it. I really don't understand the confusion, there is tons of shit to do with randoms if you want.

It would at least give people who don;t have enough friends to play the mode the option. You're right that sometimes playing with randoms is like throwing yourself into a brick wall - but often it is not. I've completed games with randoms. Sometimes people will quit on you, but not every time. The choice to at least be able to try it would be a good option.

 

[Orayn]

Quoting myself since this came towards the end of the last page:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by "friends-only" I assume they mean people who have joined your fireteam rather than people in your OS-level friends list. It's possible to set your fireteam to open, which allows anyone to group with you by highlighting your character and choosing the "Join Fireteam" option that pops up.

So yeah, that would make it technically possible to attempt with randoms, and I'm sure players will decide on an informal "stand here with an open fireteam for raids" spot in the Tower relatively quickly. Some sort of LFG status that sets you fireteam to open and puts a "JOIN ME!" icon above your nameplate would be better, though.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Game is slowly looking more and more like it won't suit my life as a parent. Oh well.

because one end game mode? the rest is very pick up and play

 

[Marvel]

Leroy Jenkins, do you see what you've done?

 

[JCizzle]

And it also destroyed WoW raiding for good.

According to you, while it saved the game for thousands or millions of others.

 

[see5harp]

lol I don't even know what you're talking about. I've never played Gears 3 horde.

My point was, attempting something like the vidmasters in ODST FF would be a lot more difficult to complete with randoms than people who were coordinating efforts to completing the challenge and this seems similar in some regards. I've explained myself pretty thoroughly in other posts in this thread... just not specifically to you directly.

Seem to have gotten side-tracked on the matchmaking w/ lag issue which had nothing to do with my original point at all.

Yea, getting vidmasters with some randoms who don't use mics would be hard, just like getting to wave 50 of gears 3 horde would be hard. There are situations where I was able to get hour + long firefight games with friends of friends (complete strangers) and wave 50 runs in gears with randoms though. Those people ended up being on the friends list. Beating Gears 1 in coop on Insane was not all that easy either but I played through it with a random with a mic and he's been on my friendlist ever since.

 

[Gorillaz]

.....seriously bungie?

 

[Xater]

Sorry this is a decision I just can not support. I'd rather have the option to chose whether I want to play with randoms or not. If it ends in frustration, whatever it was my decision.

 

[syko de4d]

I don't see why they wouldn't allow the option. Not everyone has friends playing Destiny, heck, not everyone has five friends.

you need more than just 5 friends. You need 5 friends that are online at the same time for multiple hours and doesnt already raid with other people. Does Destiny come with Raid IDs, so you can only finish the raid once a week or so? If yes, then it will be super hard to find 5 friends who are not already raiding with other people.

edit: i feel a little bad in the inside for calling 6 man a raid...

 

[Not Spaceghost]

And they said it wasn't an MMO.

Well at least it's only 4 other people (or 5 other people?) That shouldn't be hard to pull together.

 

[Steel]

Hmmm I wonder how viable a group of less than 6 people will be.

 

[n0tail]

Just like the way it should be. Great work. It's good to see that not every company is willing to screw the hardcore masses in favor of free legendary items to everyone for 10 minute work just because they can't handle tough bosses.

 

[Schweinehund]

The simple fact that raid content can be slept through in WoW while you drool on your keyboard has completely destroyed the sense of accomplishment that raiding used to carry. He's spot on with his statement.

Even Blizzard realizes that LFR has been a detriment to normal and heroic raiding and are trying to fix this by taking away tier sets and trinkets away from the LFR crowd, but it's too small of a gesture to fix the real issue.

http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/207s81/023_of_players_defeated_heroic_garrosh_after_four/

.22% too much amirite.

 

[Alebrije]

Strikes and PvP allow you to play with randoms. Only raids don't have randoms matchmaking.

That is better, even still think Bungie can leave the option open

 

[BeEatNU]

This is the best route IMO
Randoms tend to jerk around and I'm not about that life.

 

[SerTapTap]

So the better alternative is to gate it off completely? Even if you try and fail with a PUG, at least you can experience the content.

If a huge majority of players fail random raids there's going to be a lot of pissed off players that basically wasted a lot of time. If more players come out pissed or bored than pleased, it's a bad feature.

 

[ebullientprism]

Sorry, but why don't just give the option?

Getting a couple of friends up online at the same time is already a pain in the ass

I dont get it either.

How much team work can it need? Its a FPS MMO. Hardly DOTA in complexity and that lets you roll with randoms.

Because these raids will probably hinge on teamwork and voice communications to even have a remote chance at succeeding.

A group of non-speaking double-jumping randoms from PSN/XBL are going to make for an excruciating experience, I bet.

I dont think you understand the word option. Just because some random double jumping people are in matchmaking with other randoms doesn't stop you from playing just with friends.

 

[Serick]

LOL

Thank you for that insightful reply.

Care to elaborate?

http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/207s81/023_of_players_defeated_heroic_garrosh_after_four/

.22% too much amirite.

I was referring to LFR. How does this relate to my statement in any way what so ever? If anything this just further proves my point. Less people go for the heroic encounter because why bother? A few more ilvl points? You've already seen the content.

 

[ryan299]

Does Bungie assume that everybody is buying this game so everybody will have 5 friends to go on these raids with? Sure seems like it. Incredibly dumb to not support match making in this mode. I only know two people who are getting this game, the rest think it looks like crap.

 

[Twilight Gap]

If there's one thing randoms often lack, it's communication and teamwork. It makes little sense to dedicate several hours to completing a heavily team-oriented game mode with matchmade players who are likely to yell into their mics (which I'm glad they can't) or otherwise not contribute and then leave at the end. I've seen dozens of people complaining about randoms in their Strikes continuously dying or going AFK, yet they want to bring them into Raids...

Those are small instances of course, but it's not like people have to "schedule" to find players. You can invite people to parties through the game (which needs to be more seamless). This is often how boss runs are coordinated in MMOs anyway; you'll have people waiting outside dungeons for a party to gather. Then of course, people here have GAF and I'm sure Bungie wants everyone else to hop on a website, whether it's theirs or another one. Bungie.net has a long way to go (and I mean long way) before it's ready to properly foster the Destiny community, but it's just one of many avenues for people who "don't have any friends" to make some, or at least find 5 other people who aren't going to rage quit when you tell them how to play to jump online. My list was empty when I hopped on PS4, and now it's got 30+ people on it.

I think the game would benefit from a clan's list and more ways to interact aside from emotes, but I think this is otherwise a good decision. Now if it was limited only to people on your friend's list, then that would be stupid

 

[Sai-kun]

Laughing so hard at "destroyed any sense of accomplishment"

 

[tjohn86]

All modes should have optional matchmaking. This is ridiculous.