Rogue Agent
Banned
Yeah. He wasn't kidding.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/kojimas-next-project-will-be-taboo/1100-6258116/
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MGSV: Ground Zeroes - Spoilers Thread - #TeamBowie
- Thread starter Batzi
- Start date
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/kojimas-next-project-will-be-taboo/1100-6258116/
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
What if Chico really is a son of The End, but he has a more advanced form of disguise that allows him to shape-shift, which makes him...
CHICO IS QUIET IS DECOY OCTOPUS!
Why go out of their way to hide his face in particular?
NotMyRealName
Banned
Decoy Octopus doesn't shape shift
WonkyPanda
Member
Finally got around to the game after being so busy.
Game is incredible
Tape 4 is WHAT IN THE FUCKING FUCK?!
plasmawave
Banned
Enough with the Chico is Quite theory lol.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Tape 4 is why I don't respect Kojima's writing anymore. Well, even less than I already did. There are tons upon tons of effective ways to convey the idea that "this new character is evil." He used
duel-rape between an underage boy and a girl with the body of an underage woman+torture
Thanks Yahtzee
It wasn't just about conveying how evil Skull Face is, it's about showing the horror's that can occur in torture camps and about torture in general. If you felt uneasy, disgusted or disturbed then it was successful.
I thought it was very well done myself, they could have made some really overt allusions like showing the actions in cutscenes or security cam footage or something, and one things for sure, it really makes the player despise Skull Face immensely as a result.
It's also not the first time torture has appeared in the series.
MrMatt555
Member
Which makes me wonder
why in the e3 2014 trailer snake is in what appears to be a friendly encounter with skull face towards the end of the video. He gets off the truck and behold. A new metal gear.
plasmawave
Banned
People would rather go blind side than to witness the horror of war.
How dare he depict it in his game!
plasmawave
Banned
Because
Paz was a spy and Snake and Kaz don't give a shit about her except for the fact that she might leak information about him to his enemies
MrMatt555
Member
Hmm..... I was referring more towards Chico. It is true that Kaz could give two shits about Paz. (Hey, their names rhyme), What about Chico? He went through some shit. but I re-read what I wrote and I may have answered my own question.
Maybe it was originally Skull face who got a hold of an upgraded metal gear zeke and snake had to play the part to hijack it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Disturbed, uneasy, and disturbed is not what I was feeling, at least not in the way that Kojima wanted my to. I was "disgusted" at how poorly such a sensitive subject could be handled by a man who believes he can elevate video games to the maturity of shows like breaking bad. I'm not so sure that in actual war camps, the torturer will break into a monologue about choice. And they certainly don't have conversations like this. Forgive me if this is slightly off.
"Tell me what you would like?"
"I would like to kill you"
"The feeling is mutual, but we are secret agents!"
or my personal pick of the most cringeworthy immature and ridiculous possible dialogue
"Do you think this body is sweet or sour, have a taste!"
I'm not sure anyone who's ever been tortured in their life would look at this and say "yep, that is an accurate depiction of torture." Torture in the series has always been campy. Even to the point of laughing rods being as a torture device in Peacewalker(in the japanese version). That scene was in no way shape or form an accurate depiction of torture camps on anything more than an aesthetic level. And in the end, this all happened because of a guy named SkullFace. There's nothing subtle, clever, or mature about any of the violence in MGSZ. I just hope Kojima cleans up his act in TPP.
Because reasons that will most likely be very convoluted.
plasmawave
Banned
Maybe they decided to work together for the greater good (evil).
Skullface must have made him a pretty good offer.
plasmawave
Banned
The fuck. Was the torture scene in Casino Royale any more "subtle, clever, or mature"?
MrMatt555
Member
Also....
New EXTREMELY in-depth anaysis video incoming for those of you who like the conspiracy theories. Some of PythonSelkan's reasonings for his theory: That Snake in TPP is actually a double (Frank Jaeger/Cyborg Ninja) Is actually very plausible in this video. Which is a farcry to some of his eye-rolling reasons in his videos prior. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_4jcSH-KIE&list=UU61_iNs7zL9q3eZtAa7xHJg
New EXTREMELY in-depth anaysis video incoming for those of you who like the conspiracy theories. Some of PythonSelkan's reasonings for his theory: That Snake in TPP is actually a double (Frank Jaeger/Cyborg Ninja) Is actually very plausible in this video. Which is a farcry to some of his eye-rolling reasons in his videos prior. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_4jcSH-KIE&list=UU61_iNs7zL9q3eZtAa7xHJg
We've already seen 3 people undergo torture in TPP trailers and odds are it'll be more severe and reoccurring in the final game.
I also think the torture seemed fairly reigned in and realistic in GZ, I mean compare it to some of the stuff we've seen come out of Guantanamo, like the naked prisoners forced to pile on each other, or the smiling guard woman making those ridiculous pointing gestures. If GZ had a picture of either of those situations, as bizarre and ludicrous as they may seem to us, they are still accurate portrayals of torture.
MrMatt555
Member
A bat to the gonads is never subtle. lol
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I do not watch James Bond films. So I wouldn't know the context or plot if I were to watch that. However, if you want to see a REAL accurate and respectful depiction of wartime, torture, and the horrors of war. I implore you to watch Battle of Algiers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-7j4WVTgWc
This is a film that doesn't glorify it's violence or use it as shock value, unlike MGSZ. Which is awfully insensitive in the way it treats Paz. Such as the emphasis on the fact that they can't use anesthetic to pull the bomb out. Only for Snake to stare at it for a good ten seconds after it's pulled out. Oh and also "no active bleeding" despite the stomach literally being ripped open and penetrated.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yea, three people. Although we haven't heard or seen any implications of duel rape happening to any of them. And hopefully it stays that way. Like the other person, I implore you to watch Battle of Algiers to see an accurate portrayal of torture when handled by a talented director who isn't just using it as a clutch for maturity.
Alright, fair enough, just a small warning though, I have a very strong feeling some really, really, really bad stuff is going to happen to Quiet in the game to make her go from being in Army fatigues to that other get up she's seen wearing. I'm not sure what exactly but I can't see any of it being lighthearted.
plasmawave
Banned
Gee, I wonder which is more important. Pulling out a bomb that could explode any second or spending time using anaesthetic to Paz.
Also there should be no active bleeding as the internal organs were unharmed.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Lighthearted, probably not, but I seriously hope it's respectful and not just used as another crutch for "this writing is so mature that it compares to breaking bad and true detective and now video games are validated as a storytelling medium because I put these subjects into my game."
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
IMO It would take the same or less amount of time for a medic skilled enough to go on a mission in person with BB to apply anesthetic quickly as it would for Big Boss to stare at the bomb, turn it over, stare at it some more, walk slowly to the heli's exit, and throw it out. And weren't some of her organ's removed to make room for the bomb?
plasmawave
Banned
Well, Kojima has a medical supervisor on his team so there's that.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Metal Gear is a very stylized series when it comes to many things. Having a medical supervisor doesn't make the scene any less goofy. "We are in a rush to the point that we can't use any sort of pain killers or anesthetic whatsoever, however, Snake, please take your time to observe the ticking bomb, walk slowly over to the door, and slowly throw it out, we are in no rush."
plasmawave
Banned
Did you expect Snake to take out the bomb himself? Last time I checked he was busy holding down Paz but whatever. I guess he was just standing there doing nothing according to you. Is this for real?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No, I expected Snake to be in a rush to throw a bomb outside of the chopper as quickly as possible instead of staring at it so that the camera could emphasize the ironic peace symbol.
plasmawave
Banned
You mean like a second. Jesus christ.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
13 seconds is a long to hold a beeping bomb.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Snake was caught in the moment of looking at the 'Peace' symbol since it relates to Paz's stuff in PW. After that brief moment, he snaps out of it and throws it out.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Not going to say the writing in Ground Zeroes breaks new ground, but there REALLY is a lot of nuance that gets lost in translation. Having listened to both the English and Japanese, I'm confident English-only peeps get the short end of the stick.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
13 seconds is still a very long time for a bomb to be held. Regardless of a brief implication of a flashback.
plasmawave
Banned
He was actually waiting for the door to open? You're making is sound like Snake was just literally standing there staring at bomb for 13 seconds going "deeeeeeeeeeeerp".
Seriously, if you're argument is boiling down to how long Snake was holding on to the bomb then I'd say we're pretty much done here.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Imo the japanese version of the bomb removal scene is much better and much more subtle. It's not in your face about it, it's not glorifying it. It lets your mind do most of the legwork when it comes to being disturbed about what's happening on screen. And that in the end helps the scene. Compared to shaky cam closeups of explicit details. It's amazing what a simple camera angle change can do to affect a scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhEVYt6W9Tg
Getting hit with a nostalgia bomb seems out of the person's control
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
We don't even know if he got hit by a nostalgia bomb. I don't think BB cares about someone who just tried to kill him that much to have a flashback in a stressful situation caused by a peace symbol.
That's like all of MGS3 guy is very emotionally attached.
He tossed it as soon as the door opened. I'm not entirely sure why this is being discussed.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It makes sense in MGS3 but we're talking about a guy who's rescuing a secret agent with the intent to interrogate (and possibly torture) her. After she just attempted to kill him recently. I mean the first thing he suggested when he found out she was at the base too was to "silence her before we're compromised." BB gets attached but I don't think Paz of all people is one of the people he holds dear.
I didn't watch the scene again when I made that comment but yea that was no 13 seconds. You might have a point with the camera angle for shock value, but honestly it feels more like the Japanese version got censored. Edge
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's obvious censorship, there's no doubt about that. It's just in this particular case censorship is beneficial to the scene.
Why is that though, why hide the nasty stuff its not pretty so why try to mask it even a little.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Because subtlety and letting the imagination do it's thing is more effective and disturbing than "look at how violent this is! look at it! look at all of the pain and terror!" from a cinematic perspective anyways.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Not always.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Ofc there are some exceptions, there always are when it comes to cinematography. The ending to Bonnie and Clyde wouldn't magically be better if they didn't show everything. It's just that in this particular case I find the more subtle angles more effective.
Why are you bitching about this scene so much? My dad and my uncle are both medical doctors. They watched this scene. They said it's very medically accurate. The ONLY thing they said that was inaccurate is that Paz got up and started walking around after all that.
The bomb thing is a dumb argument too. He looked at it, opened the door, and threw it out. You act as if he stood there being a derphead, which he did not. Get over it. It's a good/accurate scene.
Funny how they censored that scene for Japan, but Kaz instead says, "They fucked us!" instead of the fiddle line in Japan. Pointless changes (both of them) if you ask me. Pick one camera angle and one line, then stick with it for each version!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Sorry I don't find the glorification and even more violence to a Paz after everything she went through, (for the sake of developing the main character) to be a good scene.
And I really didn't wanna get started on the stupidity of Paz being able to walk.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
As the helicopter scene is the (for want of a better term) 'peak' narrative moment and we haven't really witnessed anything like it before in this game or any MGS, showing all the gory detail was a particularly effective technique, acting as both a shocking moment and statement of intent. The scene builds and builds layers of tension quite expertly.
She was an enemy spy, and despite her starting to turn a lew leaf, she tried blowing up Mother Base and all its occupants. If I were Big Boss, I wouldn't feel sorry for Paz at all. I'd do what Boss did and rescue her to see if she leaked any info, and if so; what. Then I'd have her silenced. No point in being lenient on enemy spies wanting to kill you & all you've worked for.