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Rise of the Tomb Raider Crystal Dynamics FAQ - Confirms timed exclusive for XB1/360

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Wait..

It is going to be released on the 360?

Here comes another major title being held back by its 9 year old brother.

I don't think a TPS with heavy cinematic leanings would be hamstrung all that much, if at all, by the X360.

Edit edit: Take The Order: 1866, for instance. It's a PS4 exclusive yet from what I've seen I don't think there's anything mechanically/in terms of game design that couldn't be accurately replicated on the PS3.

Edit:
I'm glad this has blown up in MS and SE's faces as badly as it has.

Well, the amusing thing is that Squeenix was essentially paid to not go directly up against Uncharted 4, but it'll be interesting to see if this fiasco has engendered any long-lasting bad blood amongst PS and PC gamers (I specify "long-lasting" because, y'know, modernwarfare2boycott.jpg).
 
Microsoft could have played this differently.

-Get involved early with development
-Moneyhat Square Enix to cancel the previous gen versions
-Completely focus on Xbox One (co-develop)

In this scenario Microsoft has a genuine exclusive for Xbox One that will never come to PS4/PC, they will have improved the game by cancelling the PS3/360 versions, and their PR wouldn't have had to dance in circles.

Or you can just fund first party games and not have to worry about backlash.
 

LiamR

Member
People are still mad about this? So, you can't play one less game for a little while; so what? 2015 is fucking jam-packed with huge games. When the time rolls around, you'll probably all be playing something else.
 

ymmv

Banned
People are still mad about this? So, you can't play one less game for a little while; so what? 2015 is fucking jam-packed with huge games. When the time rolls around, you'll probably all be playing something else.

Most likely Uncharted 4.
 
"Exclusive Holiday 2015" can easily sound like exclusive and releasing holiday 2015 for those not on the up and up,

The date being emphasised as it was, on top of it being a third party IP - so yeah it took an element of common sense.

So why can't Square Enix state what other platforms the game is coming out on eventually? Spencer has no say on other versions of the game as he continuously claimed in other interviews.

We have no idea if they are or aren't potential consumers because we have no idea if they will be able to purchase the game on their platforms. It's like if schrodinger's cat was a gamer and a fan of Tomb Raider

SE and CD will eventually be able to talk openly about a PS4 or PC version, but not while they need to be marketing the Xbox One version. Microsoft paid for marketing, and there will be a relatively strict marketing plan that means you cannot deviate from discussion of the Xbox One or Xbox 360 version.


There was clearly a measure of intent to make this timed exclusivity a bigger deal than it actually is, but it hinged entirely on the an unbudging PR line of 'exclusive, (launching) holiday 2015' that in hindsight, was :

- pretty dumb because there will be questions probed, and if your response to journalist is "I can't say shit aside from that line quote for quote", that screams timed exclusivity that will be revealed within 24 hours.
- waters being muddied when top-level executives didn't toe the 'exclusivity deal line' ( Greenberg, etc ), which was most likely a mistake on their part, but you don't get a second chance with these kind of things especially when it was obvious through the language that it was meant to be misleading in the first place.

It is complicated, but if that was your plan, then you should've had a fool-proof PR line that everyone needs to toe, no questions asked. Instead we had journalist reporting 20 different variations of the exclusivity story because lol.

Please, I am not saying they did well with their messaging, it increasingly appears to be Microsoft's Achilles heel. And it has turned quite negative for them now that people realise the deal for what it is (not timed, but a strategic acquisition of rights that probably costs an awful lot, that isn't not being invested into something new or interesting).

Of course they expected it to be taken at face value that it was exclusive, and the fact the ink was still drying, or at least it was new to so many execs in both MS and SE, meant there was internal confusion as well as external.

So no one has an example of another non-endangered multiplatform series getting locked down to exclusive like this, right?

And let's not spin their language as only being about their privacy being preserved. They were trying to keep the timed caveat private only to be able to push more customers, PS4 owners or otherwise, to buy their products without any sense that they didn't have to. That's the point of the exclusive deal to start with, is making it so people who don't want to wait will want to play a game where it's first long home will be. In this case, however, they not only wanted people to want the game at debut, but they poorly let it seem like they wanted people to think they weren't going to get a chance outside of Xbox, even when asked directly.

And I guess you never know in text, but I am not worked up. Disappointed since I don't want a lower fidelity version of a game I know could have been better graphically designed for and released on a stronger console simultaneously with the one that now has exclusitivity. I am not interested in ever buying multiplatform titles on my weaker option. It's not that I can't get Rise of the Tomb Raider, as ownership of the system isn't my personal issue here, it's that I will have to wait for no good reason and get a game that will have now been optimized for its initial release on weaker hardware than originally planned at launch.

I am not spinning their language. The privacy of their financial transaction being preserved is the same thing. It is essentially a gag order on mentioning any other versions. Microsoft is happy to handle marketing (apparently among other things), but when you deviate on message and start marketing other potential formats - suddenly part of the agreement breaks down. They are then paying marketing dollars to market PS4 or PC versions.

So yes, it is deceitful to an extent, but only as deceitful as business is. There's nothing personal or human about it. So you can't expect individuals to be able to justify it on any level other than a business level.
 
I'm about to head out, so apologies for not replying to everyone. Will try to do when I get home.

Horizon sells less than the main entries and is handled by a secondary team that was formed to fill gap years. It doesn't have the same market power, and it is budgeted lower than the main entries.

Um, Playground is an independent development made up of some of the best racing developers around. It wasn't formed by MS. What makes you think it was?

And while the first Horizon might not have sold as well as mainline, that doesn't mean it doesn't have the same power or money behind it. That's just silly. Everything we've heard and seen from Horizon 2 suggests the exactly opposite, seems MS have thrown considerable money and power behind the game and allowed Playground to make the best game they possibly can.

And it will be a competitor to Uncharted... in the sense that it's a good-looking, cinematic-driven third-person shooter in a popular franchise. You're reading too much into the association Uncharted has with ND's tendency to bring out the best the PS hardware can offer by way of focusing on a single platform -- even assuming Microsoft wanted that element also, it's something that would have needed to be agreed upon early into the pre-production phase at the absolute latest, not less than a year-and-a-half from release. If we were having this discussion a year ago with an unchanged release date, I wouldn't be so dismissive, but what you're proposing as the likely scenario strikes me as thoroughly doubtful due to the logistics.

Edit: Err, "latest", not "earliest". Fixed.

This is assuming that they didn't start off with the plan of having two separate versions of the game. As I said from the beginning,we know absolutely nothing about the last gen version, so it seems a bit premature to start claiming it will limit or in some way hold back the current gen version, especially when we're starting to see developers not just make the same game across generations with some slight differences.v

SE/CD aren't stupid, they know that releasing a game that's been developed as a traditional cross gen in late 2015 won't cut it, they want their best product out there whil also making sure to take advantage of the huge last gen market. So while I won't completely write off the chance of RoTR being a traditional cross gen title, it seems very unlikely that it will be.
 

Percy

Banned
Uncharted vs Halo, I know what my money would be on.

After the widespread disappointment of Halo 4 I wouldn't put as much stock in a new Halo as I would have before. Plus the massive install base advantage is going to give Uncharted quite the leg up even if there was a chance of it selling worse than Halo 5 in the first place.
 
right because Tomb Raider one of this gens best looking games was obviously held back by the last gen version.

Putting your resources and time on the stronger console is the better action instead of having to keep compromising and adjusting the game so the weaker counterpart still has the ability to play the game.

The support has to end. It already lasted 4 years too long.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
This is assuming that they didn't start off with the plan of having two separate versions of the game.

Indeed, because at present we've no really reason to believe that there are two separate versions of the game. There's no data to draw evidence from other than the fact that the game was announced as a temporary exclusive (with plenty of deliberate obfuscation) for the X360 and X1, which by itself suggests a standard cross-gen case.

As I said from the beginning,we know absolutely nothing about the last gen version, so it seems a bit premature to start claiming it will limit or in some way hold back the current gen version, especially when we're starting to see developers not just make the same game across generations with some slight differences.

It wasn't my intention to suggest that the existence of an X360 version means the X1 version will be held back, just to be clear; in fact, I literally said the exact opposite just above (at the top of the page, assuming 50ppp). ;)

Edit: You are right, though: we know virtually nothing about either version of the game other than the release date, so it's certainly possible that the X360 and X1 versions will be quite distinct outside of the usual cross-gen differences, however at this juncture I simply don't feel it's likely, especially as an exclusivity mandate. As was said earlier, though, time will tell.

Edit edit: So many edits, haha. I can't type tonight.
 

RexNovis

Banned
Why didn’t Microsoft, Square Enix or Crystal Dynamics say upfront it was a timed exclusive? Why all the indirect language?
We certainly didn’t intend to cause any confusion with the announcement. The Microsoft Gamescom stage was a great place to make the initial announcement, but not necessarily to go into details

Hahaha yea right guys. Come on. There was only one reason to say "coming holiday 2015, exclusively on Xbox" and "it has a duration" instead of "first on Xbox" or "timed exclusive." You are fooling nobody.
 

Xpliskin

Member
This whole situation, man .... .

Can already see 2015:
"RoTR is a cross-gen game so our goal was never to compete with UC4 because Square-Enix bububu"
 

protonion

Member
The reboot sold more than double on PS4. Next holiday the PS4 will be over 30 million.

What a stupid deal. Almost as stupid as the RE4 only on GC.

I doubt it will bump XB1 sales. A few thousand units at most. And less competition for Uncharted 4, so Sony might benefit a bit from this.

Stupid stupid stupid.
 
This game has the misfortune of being cross gen 2 years into current gen and going up against UC4 which will become the benchmark for 3rd person action adventures, Gears 4 in 2016/2017 is gonna compete with UC4 rather than RotTR.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
I don't know if you posting after Phil Spencer came out and confirmed it is any proof of anything.

There obviously was some debate on August 12th with all the hubbub, and you might have called it - but linking to a post the day after the FUD was spread and was clarified is not a home run argument.

Come on man, your sharper than that. It was always mentioned with a qualifier in PR speak. That qualifier being time.
 

DOWN

Banned
Um, Playground is an independent development made up of some of the best racing developers around. It wasn't formed by MS. What makes you think it was?

And while the first Horizon might not have sold as well as mainline, that doesn't mean it doesn't have the same power or money behind it. That's just silly. Everything we've heard and seen from Horizon 2 suggests the exactly opposite, seems MS have thrown considerable money and power behind the game and allowed Playground to make the best game they possibly can.

Forza Horizon was their first project and it's all they've done. They got started and built up with their Microsoft/Turn 10 partnership. They are not an old studio, they sprung up thanks to scoring the Horizon deals and much of their team and support is from the Horizon setup, not their own prior formations before Horizon: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-of-forza-horizon

It's exactly what they were set up for. Making a team for Forza Horizon was their partnership agreement.

And you can't just assume they have as much money now just because of how it looks to you. And we know they have less budget because they don't develop significant parts of the Forza series tech. They are using the Turn 10 assets. Turn 10 gets the bigger budget to make the flagship entries as the founders of the series.

This is assuming that they didn't start off with the plan of having two separate versions of the game. As I said from the beginning,we know absolutely nothing about the last gen version, so it seems a bit premature to start claiming it will limit or in some way hold back the current gen version, especially when we're starting to see developers not just make the same game across generations with some slight differences.v

SE/CD aren't stupid, they know that releasing a game that's been developed as a traditional cross gen in late 2015 won't cut it, they want their best product out there whil also making sure to take advantage of the huge last gen market. So while I won't completely write off the chance of RoTR being a traditional cross gen title, it seems very unlikely that it will be.

It seems unlikely to you based on nothing. Your examples are nothing like ROTTR. You have no examples of why you think they'd make the game twice. Especially when they still keep showing an affinity for ports with Sleeping Dogs coming later this year.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Come on man, your sharper than that. It was always mentioned with a qualifier in PR speak. That qualifier being time.
I assumed it was timed until they muddied the waters. My point however was you can't use hindsight while ignoring all the messages and statements that were being made on August 12th.

My latest point about your post specifically is that you're using a post made in hindsight to explain how you already knew, which doesn't work. It's retrodiction.
If there is confusion on August 12th, you posting after Phil Spencer says the game is timed on August 13th can't be used on August 23rd that you knew about that thats stuff all along on August 12th.

And that's it from me about that. Nobody gives a shit about how we two felt about it. I was just pointing out a flawed argument.
 

Two Words

Member
People are still mad about this? So, you can't play one less game for a little while; so what? 2015 is fucking jam-packed with huge games. When the time rolls around, you'll probably all be playing something else.
Games aren't interchangeable for everybody. For some, that was their most anticipated game.
 

Steroyd

Member
No it wouldn't because Sony aren't going to pay for it. The simple fact is that Microsoft paid Square Enix for timed exclusivity. In terms of business development it wouldn't make sense for Sony to pay because they are the market leader, and in the short term at least it makes sense for SE to take the money from MS as it means they avoid competing with a more highly anticipated title on PS4 (Uncharted) and they mitigate their risk by accepting cash up front while still holding onto the future rights to publish the game on PC/PS4/PS3. Though it is lamentable that the game will be late on those platforms, to pretend that this is not good business by SE at least in the short term is silly. Whether or not there will be any lasting damage to the franchise is up for debate, if the exclusivity period is less than a year then probably not, more than that and I could see the appeal fade for the next instalment. For MS it is less clear, I don't see TR as a system seller, not when Uncharted is being released on the PS4 within the same time frame. Making it a direct comparison will not help them sell consoles.

There's only 2 ways I see this as a worthwhile business for SE in the short term, if the game sells less than the equivalent of what MS paid, saying they're mitigating risk goes without saying (my issue on this being a "risk" however is we know games in the franchise can sell nearly 7 million >_>), or the game is so amazibells that good word of mouth carries throughout the exclusivity deal and sells well on PS4/PC And they don't lose what would have been day one sales if there was a launch date parity. Even though Resident Evil 4 has proven it can happen, as you say Uncharted 4 is on the competing system which makes it that much a harder scenario to believe.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
I assumed it was timed until they muddied the waters. My point however was you can't use hindsight while ignoring all the messages and statements that were being made on August 12th.

My latest point about your post specifically is that you're using a post made in hindsight to explain how you already knew, which doesn't work. It's retrodiction.
If there is confusion on August 12th, you posting after Phil Spencer says the game is timed on August 13th can't be used on August 23rd that you knew about that thats stuff all along on August 12th.

And that's it from me about that. Nobody gives a shit about how we two felt about it. I was just pointing out a flawed argument.

Sorry man, you misunderstood my intent. I wasn't posting that as a "Look at me being right mofo", but because you responded to my first post with a comment about hindsight. My response was to show a post that I made previously showing this was always my belief, that given the nature of how it was presented, it was obviously - to me -timed all along.

No one cares about my opinion or yours? Since when? I'm hurt by the notion :D
 
Times sure have changed, remember last gen's early timed exclusives: Bioshock, Mass Effect, GTAIV Episodes, the JRPG's. None caused such a big shitstorm as RoTR so much that MS and its partner were forced to admit the timed exclusivity.
 

DOWN

Banned
He's saying TR on ps4, one, and pc looked great despite it also being on 360 and ps3.


Rise being cross gen is not new news. It was in the original announcements.

That doesn't make sense. Tomb Raider wasn't cross gen. It is a last gen game that got a later port to current gen. Cross gen is something like Destiny or Watch Dogs. Developed for both gens, meaning the far more powerful gen is not at it's max potential because it has to be scaled down a gen so that both run and release simultaneously. That's what will happen for this sequel.

And ROTTR was not announced for 360 before. They used ambiguous language just saying "Xbox".


Times sure have changed, remember last gen's early timed exclusives: Bioshock, Mass Effect, GTAIV Episodes, the JRPG's. None caused such a big shitstorm as RoTR so much that MS and its partner were forced to admit the timed exclusivity.

Timed DLC and new IPs aren't a huge deal. Tomb Raider is a multiplat franchise that they paid to keep off other systems. That's a whole new kind of deal.
 

AmFreak

Member
Microsoft could have played this differently.

-Get involved early with development
-Moneyhat Square Enix to cancel the previous gen versions
-Completely focus on Xbox One (co-develop)

In this scenario Microsoft has a genuine exclusive for Xbox One that will never come to PS4/PC, they will have improved the game by cancelling the PS3/360 versions, and their PR wouldn't have had to dance in circles.

But this would also have meant much more $$$ bags.
They just thought they could get away with what they said in their press conference.
SE clearly isn't allowed to say how long the exclusive period lasts.
If you just get people to believe that it will only ever come out on the One (or in this case XBox systems) you have all the advantages of a true exclusive without having to pay a shitload of money extra.
 

goonergaz

Member
I didn't realize this was a cross-gen title... I'll pass.

It surprises me folk didn't realise, I though timed was fairly clear at announcement reading the wording and remembering previous 'exclusives'. However I found the wording saying 'on Xbox' very clear that it would be cross-gen.

TR Def edition is nice enough for me to know the next TR will be technically good enough regardless of the cross-gen nature...but what will be interesting is this vs Uncharted 4, I'm expecting clear differences
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
That doesn't make sense. Tomb Raider wasn't cross gen. It is a last gen game that got a later port to current gen. Cross gen is something like Destiny or Watch Dogs. Developed for both gens, meaning the far more powerful gen is not at it's max potential because it has to be scaled down a gen so that both run and release simultaneously. That's what will happen for this sequel.

And ROTTR was not announced for 360 before. They used ambiguous language just saying "Xbox".




Timed DLC and new IPs aren't a huge deal. Tomb Raider is a multiplat franchise that they paid to keep off other systems. That's a whole new kind of deal.


I don't see how it doesn't make sense. Simultaneous development isn't going to hold back the next gen version anymore than an up port.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=873749

spencer confirmed 360 version back on the 13th. We've already known it was coming to 360 as well.
 

iamnosuperman

Neo Member
Why didn’t Microsoft, Square Enix or Crystal Dynamics say upfront it was a timed exclusive? Why all the indirect language?
We certainly didn’t intend to cause any confusion with the announcement. The Microsoft Gamescom stage was a great place to make the initial announcement, but not necessarily to go into details

Doesn't anyone else see this as a bit dumb. They did do their own tumblr post about it. Couldn't they have done it then? Or am I asking too much here
 

EGM1966

Member
Times sure have changed, remember last gen's early timed exclusives: Bioshock, Mass Effect, GTAIV Episodes, the JRPG's. None caused such a big shitstorm as RoTR so much that MS and its partner were forced to admit the timed exclusivity.
Yup - and I'm glad that the times have changed on this. Last gen it was either presumed those titles were exclusive and people were more accepting to wait and and see what happenede (same with the JRPGs that hit 360 first).

This gen though, based on the market learning the signs, it seems people in general aren't going to simply accept these kind of announcements and they want much better clarity of what's going on.

This is better for us as consumers and will hopefully inhibit the behaviour of companies in the industry. Certainly I doubt MS nor SE have enjoyed the negative attention they brought on themselves.

With luck nothing that's timed will remain hidden this gen and consumers can make their choices in a more informed manner. Sucks for the companies but so what? The whole use of timed exclusives was/is getting out of hand and was being used as an easy sustitute for true competition. Glad to see this get the outcry it did and glad to see MS and SE pushed to clarify as much as they have (which is cleat more than they wanted to).
 

pixlexic

Banned
That doesn't make sense. Tomb Raider wasn't cross gen. It is a last gen game that got a later port to current gen. Cross gen is something like Destiny or Watch Dogs. Developed for both gens, meaning the far more powerful gen is not at it's max potential because it has to be scaled down a gen so that both run and release simultaneously. That's what will happen for this sequel.

And ROTTR was not announced for 360 before. They used ambiguous language just saying "Xbox".




Timed DLC and new IPs aren't a huge deal. Tomb Raider is a multiplat franchise that they paid to keep off other systems. That's a whole new kind of deal.




there is nothing saying this game couldn't be back ported from the xbone version to the 360 instead of vise versa.

This thread if full of ifs and maybes in their most negative connotations. so many tries at dismissal and downplay.
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Has it? Or is this just some people on forums talking amongst themselves?

As opposed to dynamite?

What is your definition of blowing up this far from release? Lawsuits?
 

EGM1966

Member
Has it? Or is this just some people on forums talking amongst themselves?
Both made statements they clearly wouldn't if it was just some people talking; SE forums and twitter were a bloodbath of backlash and even with the statements SE are still taking heat: I think we can be clear about the situation and I don't see the point of even trying to downplay it at this point.
 

Chobel

Member
Damn! MS and SE are releasing PR after PR just because people on forums talking amongst themselves.
/s
 

Steroyd

Member
Times sure have changed, remember last gen's early timed exclusives: Bioshock, Mass Effect, GTAIV Episodes, the JRPG's. None caused such a big shitstorm as RoTR so much that MS and its partner were forced to admit the timed exclusivity.

JRPG's aside, at the time it made sense, Sony wasn't doing too hot or was just about to release their machine, MS had a deep relationship with PC devs coming from the original Xbox (can't even just type "Xbox" anymore, thanks Obama), heck PC devs in general are probably why the original Xbox carved the market it did under PS2 dominance, so stuff like Bioshock, Oblivion, Mass Effect etc just straight up made sense for the platform, and moneyhats was likely not involved to achieve that or at least it was believable that they weren't.

Rise of Tomb Raider is the exact opposite to that.
 

nib95

Banned
Has it? Or is this just some people on forums talking amongst themselves?
You think all this PR response from both Microsoft and SE is just for kicks and because they feel now is the right time to be transparent? It's damage control and a direct response to the negative PR. In this very QA itself it's apparent.

Why didn’t Microsoft, Square Enix or Crystal Dynamics say upfront it was a timed exclusive? Why all the indirect language?

We certainly didn’t intend to cause any confusion with the announcement.
 

danthefan

Member
there is nothing saying this game couldn't be back ported from the xbone version to the 360 instead of vise versa.

This thread if full of ifs and maybes in their most negative connotations. so many tries at dismissal and downplay.

Do you honestly think they'll develop the game like that? Because I really, really do not. If they go balls out to maximise the power of the XOne, then think about porting it back to the 360, well that just sounds like you're asking for development hell to me.
 
When in doubt, always forums talking amongst themselves. Never has the chatter of a pre-release been correc... hm.

Yeah, let's compare a game console's DRM to a single game being a timed exclusive.

People seem to be forgetting that unless you're somewhat invested in console politics this story is meaningless. Sure, there may be a few outliers who own an XB1, or both consoles and say they're upset, but I feel very confident the vast majority of people won't give a rats ass about this story a year from now.


You think all this PR response from both Microsoft and SE is just for kicks and because they feel now is the right time to be transparent? It's damage control and a direct response to the negative PR. In this very QA itself it's apparent.

Of course they'd rather quiet the complainers.
 
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