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So uh, Mario World must've blown's everybody's mind huh?
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
Megalosaro
Banned
Yoshi's Island wasn't well received? Wow, I thought it was the best game I had ever played at the time
Sonic was absolutely, indisputably bigger from 1992 till about 1994. They took polls at the time and found that more children knew who sonic was than Mario or Mickey Mouse. Sonic was the first video game character in the macy's thanksgiving day parade. Sonic was pimped by Michael Jackson during his tours. They named genes after Sonic the Hedgehog.
I think people forget that, for a while, Sonic was a legitimate cultural phenomenon.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Not mind blown, but I like it more than SMB3. Felt it was superior too.
ShadowgeistX
Member
I'm going to go with the Mario 64 crowd. The Mario 64 demo station at any store would always be occupied and everyone who was playing it was having amazing fun. I don't think it failed to charm anyone.
Despite the relative failure of the N64, I think nearly everyone played Mario 64 in the end. Heck, there's probably people still speedrunning it.
Despite the relative failure of the N64, I think nearly everyone played Mario 64 in the end. Heck, there's probably people still speedrunning it.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
LttP is the one that really blew my mind at the time. That stormy night at the start and it just got better from there.
VARIA
Member
I was more blown away by the sound/music in SMW than the actual gameplay. The Bowser fights (Mode-7) were also VERy cool to witness for the first time. But most of this stuff was spoiled in commercials. The music had to be witnessed to be believed and it was glorious to someone who grew up with NES 8-bit sound.music.
Super Mario Bros. 3 blew me away. That shit was just weird. Racoon mario? Frog Mario? Tanooki Suit? Nothing will ever compare to how ridiculous and awesome these power ups were to my child mind. Also that level where the goombas and koopas are giant. There was just so much going on that no 2D mario game has had quite the same impact on me since.
Super Mario Bros. 3 blew me away. That shit was just weird. Racoon mario? Frog Mario? Tanooki Suit? Nothing will ever compare to how ridiculous and awesome these power ups were to my child mind. Also that level where the goombas and koopas are giant. There was just so much going on that no 2D mario game has had quite the same impact on me since.
Nowhere Man
Member
Absolutely, coming from Mario 3 on the NES to Mario World on the SNES was like going from night to day, from black and white to full color. It was amazing to behold. I still remember booting it up for the first time and just staring in awe at how clear and colorful the title screen alone was. It's still one of the best Mario games ever.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Genesis was actually outselling SNES for quite a while in several regions. SMW helped at launch but at that time SEGA (especially in the USA) was pushing some HEAVY advertisment comparing the prices and the number of available titles. Yoshi's Island didn't move the needle at all.
It wasn't until DK Country that the SNES began to blow past the Genesis.
EDIT: I'm referring to stuff like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK0OFsWWzu4
And also this:
And this:
http://www.i64x.com/i6img/hist_sega24.jpg
(direct link because bandwidth blocking)
SMW took everything to the next level.
Mario had a greater repertoire of moves.
Yoshi was brand new and great.
Cape was powerful and gave Mario a huge range of movement, really opening up levels.
Levels were big in a way SMB never was thanks to flying, huge verticles, secret doors on very remote platforms that required precise flying and landing.
Graphics were mind blowing, tons of colors and not just colors but graphical effects like the glowing neon stars and bricks.
Level design reached new heights with the climbable fences, drill down brick levels, levels like Tubular.
Overworld design with all the secrets and criss-crossing paths, as well as the visible changes such as growing bridges, colored brick explosions, and the secret after game changes.
It was the first Mario with the "completion stars" as well, a minor feature but a compelling one.
Mario was pretty great before SMW. I loved the original Donkey Kong, enjoyed SMB and SMB 2 and SMB 3, but SMW is when Mario became, for me, a timeless series. I loved SMW, playing every level, completionist runs many times. I still love that game.
Mario had a greater repertoire of moves.
Yoshi was brand new and great.
Cape was powerful and gave Mario a huge range of movement, really opening up levels.
Levels were big in a way SMB never was thanks to flying, huge verticles, secret doors on very remote platforms that required precise flying and landing.
Graphics were mind blowing, tons of colors and not just colors but graphical effects like the glowing neon stars and bricks.
Level design reached new heights with the climbable fences, drill down brick levels, levels like Tubular.
Overworld design with all the secrets and criss-crossing paths, as well as the visible changes such as growing bridges, colored brick explosions, and the secret after game changes.
It was the first Mario with the "completion stars" as well, a minor feature but a compelling one.
Mario was pretty great before SMW. I loved the original Donkey Kong, enjoyed SMB and SMB 2 and SMB 3, but SMW is when Mario became, for me, a timeless series. I loved SMW, playing every level, completionist runs many times. I still love that game.
Mysterious
Banned
lol nope
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
It didn't blow me away the way Mario 64 did, but it is still my favorite Mario game. Everything about it just feels right.
chemicals
Member
Okay kids gather around... Back when the SNES came out, there were maybe 2 games for the damn thing, yet everybody wanted it
...
Know why? SUPER MARIO WORLD. When i finally got a SNES i was amazed at the amount of content and the overall quality of the game.. Then I discovered the short cuts and secret levels and I have never been so mystified by a game since.
back then (just as the original NES with SMB1 pack-in) you didnt need new games.. You were good with the pack in for a good 4 to 6 months. last time this happened was Mario 64.
there. I talked good about Nintendo. Happy?
...
Know why? SUPER MARIO WORLD. When i finally got a SNES i was amazed at the amount of content and the overall quality of the game.. Then I discovered the short cuts and secret levels and I have never been so mystified by a game since.
back then (just as the original NES with SMB1 pack-in) you didnt need new games.. You were good with the pack in for a good 4 to 6 months. last time this happened was Mario 64.
there. I talked good about Nintendo. Happy?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Remember when Bowser had a whole army and a bunch of tanks and warships in SMB3?
And then in SMW, he had... a clown car?
What a joke.
And then in SMW, he had... a clown car?
What a joke.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I'm simply basing that on sales of "Super Mario World 2" compared to previous Super Mario games. Yoshi's Island is one of the lowest-selling titles in the mainline franchise, actually.
Really, more like DKC2 when the SNES overtook the Genesis in world wide sales, which coincided with the time Sega began abandoning the Genesis/Mega Drive in favor of the Saturn and 32X. The SNES overtook the Genesis after Sega had stupidly checked out during 1995.
From 1991 till midway to 1994, Sega outsold Nintendo world wide. Their best year was 1993, when Sega finally captured 51% of the global market.
MrCunningham
Member
Actually, one of the more impressive things about Super Mario World was that it had a save feature. I mean, that doesn't sound all that impressive, but it was the first Mario game with saving... which was awesome for going back through the game and discovering all the secrets.
Sega actually did this in malls before the release of Sonic the Hedgehog. They set up kiosks with Super Nintendo's that played Super Mario World and Sega Genesis units with Sonic the Hedgehog right beside it. Apparently the reactions were more in favor for Sonic then they were for Mario.
Sega actually did this in malls before the release of Sonic the Hedgehog. They set up kiosks with Super Nintendo's that played Super Mario World and Sega Genesis units with Sonic the Hedgehog right beside it. Apparently the reactions were more in favor for Sonic then they were for Mario.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Ah, right on. I wasn't sure to be honest. Didn't want to stick my foot in my mouth and say "outselling it worldwide" without knowing for sure. I knew for certain that Genesis was outselling SNES in most of the major regions like USA and EUR and even Japan for a bit (iirc)
QuixoticNeutral
Member
My relationship with SMB3 and SMW is analogous to mine with OoT and Wind Waker.
In either case, the first was the great leap forward for the series that defined and consolidated all of the conventions to comeincontestably an all-time landmark of design out of influence alone, such that the entire genre had a clear before and after.
But in either case it was the second game's polish, expansiveness, and vividness that made me look beyond the technical achievement of new mechanics and truly fall in love. Not a temporary fling, either, but one that has stood the test of time. I can see perfectly well where either game stepped back from its predecessor, or at least didn't step as far forward, and I don't care. As a complete experience, both of them sucked me into the Nintendo vortex for years, and I am still not sick of running either one to 100%.
In either case, the first was the great leap forward for the series that defined and consolidated all of the conventions to comeincontestably an all-time landmark of design out of influence alone, such that the entire genre had a clear before and after.
But in either case it was the second game's polish, expansiveness, and vividness that made me look beyond the technical achievement of new mechanics and truly fall in love. Not a temporary fling, either, but one that has stood the test of time. I can see perfectly well where either game stepped back from its predecessor, or at least didn't step as far forward, and I don't care. As a complete experience, both of them sucked me into the Nintendo vortex for years, and I am still not sick of running either one to 100%.
Come to think of it, he just chilled in his fortress, in a much smaller mountain seclusion.
Proof that recession affects even the 1%
OverturePT
Member
Don't forget that Sega had the Mega Drive out two years earlier than the SNES. That might have something to do with it...
I don't think the Megadrive ever outsold the Super Famicom in Japan, where it fell way behind in sales even to the PC Engine. But globally, the Genesis/Megadrive outsold the SNES for most of its life. It was the tail end, when Sega began spreading itself so thin among 4 different platforms, along with SOJ's desire to completely abandon the Megadrive for the Saturn, that allowed the SNES to overtake the Genesis.
Honestly, until 1994, that battle between Nintendo and Sega was the fiercest and most even the industry has ever seen. It was so stupid for Sega to abandon the Genesis the way they did. They killed their own golden goose. Even if they couldn't have kept step with the SNES in 1995 and beyond, the way they dropped it like a rock really hurt them financially.
Not quite. 1988 and 1989 and 1990 were years in which Sega was pretty much a non-factor in North America and Japan, while their success (in contrast to Nintendo, but not in comparison to Commodore) in Europe was more to do with the Master System than Mega Drive.
It really was Sonic that turned Sega's fortune around. That title was basically the birth of Sega as most know them. From every year from 1991 onwards, they progressively ate chunks of Nintendo's global market. In 1990, Nintendo owned more than 90% of the global market. That Sega could take 51% of that market in 3 years is honestly astonishing.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Sega was never a contender in Japan during the 16-bit era.
Poimandres
Member
I'm not "bitching", I'm just responding to the thread with my experience. I can very clearly remember my first encounter with SMW.
Question: So, uh, Mario World musti've blow's everybody's mind huh?
Answer: No, it didn't blow everybody's mind.
Like I said, I still think it's a great game so I'm not "bitching" or "attacking" the game.
MrCunningham
Member
They were third place behind the PC Engine. The Sega (Mega) CD was Sega's answer to the PC Engine CD ROM.
Calling it the answer to the PCE CD is a bit much. It was the PC Engine CD's main competition, but it was more a response to NEC and Sega both collectively realizing CDs were the next-big-thing. Both NEC and Sega announced their CD Rom systems the same year, 1988. Virtually everybody at the time was expected to have a CD Rom system, it was a weird time. I think many forget that, at the time, Nintendo caught considerable flack for not having a publicly announced CD Rom system in the works. It was just one of those things people expected.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
I think Donkey Kong Country was more mind-blowing at the time in terms of 2d platformers that were like wtf how is this possible.
Super Mario 3 was a huge jump from Mario 1/2. SMW was a similar jump but was kind of on the same trajectory established by 3.
Super Mario 64 was probably the most mind-blowing jump period though. I still couldn't believe it the first time I played it
Super Mario 3 was a huge jump from Mario 1/2. SMW was a similar jump but was kind of on the same trajectory established by 3.
Super Mario 64 was probably the most mind-blowing jump period though. I still couldn't believe it the first time I played it
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
That excuse didn't seem to matter to Microsoft with the 360...
I believe you. Like I said, wasn't 100% sure so I didn't want to start naming names.
What's even more astonishing to me is - after their overwhelming success in the USA - SEGA just withered and died after that. Losing the sports games had a lot to do with it (people always forget the power of the sports games. Heck, adults even bought the NES for 'em) but it just seemed like SEGA HQ over in Japan got cocky and stopped letting the US branch do it's thing.
I remember the first time I had even heard of the Super Nintendo. I was on the school bus going to school in the morning. This kid was giving this other kid shit for having an Atari, because he had a Nintendo and "Atari had 1 button while Nintendo has two." So, of course, I chimed in that my Sega Genesis had 3 buttons - A, B, and C. And the kid next to me, who I guess had an SNES, said that the Super Nintendo had buttons all the way to X and Y. And I remember sitting there, trying to imagine in my head a controller with 25 buttons, lol.
Sega of America and Sega of Japan were essentially two separate companies during that time period. The shit I could write about their relationship... it was so toxic. SoJ resented that they made the top software, but were being stomped in sales in their home country. SoA, by the tail end of the Genesis life, began pumping out some really good titles too, but for the most of the Genesis' life, the quality stuff came from half a world away. SoJ was dying to get a fresh start with the Saturn so they could finally have success at home, even if it came at the expense of their number 1 dollar market. They got their wish... and it killed the company.
I've always been a Sega fan, since the SMS days. They are, to me, the most perplexing, and fun to study company in gaming. Their history spans all the way back to the 50's as a game maker, even predating video games itself. They are the king of arcade games, and have always been my favorite home video game makers. I guess I really paid more attention to them as a kid than most did, lol. My mom still has drawings I made of like Fantasy Zone and Wonderboy from when I was a kid. to me, they are a never ending source of interest. Their company history, especially when they were at their peak, is nothing short of fascinating. Console Wars does a pretty good job of talking about all this, while The Rise and Fall of Sega does a much worse job. I'm still waiting for someone to come out and write a definitive, and accurate, account of Sega in the 90's. Because, bar none, they were probably the most interesting video game company in the world, regardless of if you liked their games or not. They basically went from unknown to the largest game company in the world to essentially bankrupt in 10 years.
entremet
Member
I enjoyed Mario World, but it's one of the games that I read about on GAF that has this universal appeal that I just don't get.
Don't get me wrong, it is a fun game. But the game was always ho hum to me. I hated the floatier jumps, the vast empty space in many stages, the less creative worlds compared to SMB3, and Yoshi being garbage. The castle stages were awesome, though.
Everyone lauds this game, but it's probably my least favorite Mario platformer. I would admit I'm in the minority, but I never knew the game was so beloved in the Mario catalog of games.
Don't get me wrong, it is a fun game. But the game was always ho hum to me. I hated the floatier jumps, the vast empty space in many stages, the less creative worlds compared to SMB3, and Yoshi being garbage. The castle stages were awesome, though.
Everyone lauds this game, but it's probably my least favorite Mario platformer. I would admit I'm in the minority, but I never knew the game was so beloved in the Mario catalog of games.
Super Mario World looked psychedelic to me when I first saw it. The colors, the parallax, the music, the sounds, the unique physics, Yoshi. It all just made me want to beg, borrow, steal, and run out to buy an SNES. I'd say SMB3 was the better game, but World made me put it away at the time. I've flipped over just about every main Mario game since. They're all brilliant, but Super Mario 3D World is the first game to give me back that Super Mario World feeling after all these years.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
For sure. SEGA's quality was through the roof. SEGA's place in the world in the 90s is kinda being forgotten, sadly. For one, because we have younger gamers coming into the fold and/or people who were too young at the time to remember. For two (and I'm speaking in generalities here) when game enthusiasts look back at the SNES vs Genesis era and make lists and ask "which one was better?", they're always bringing up games like Super Metroid and Earthbound or Chrono Trigger or DK Country (late-era SNES) and so forth, and then they go "LOL! Kid Chameleon? Sonic? LOL"
But I remember that Genesis was super popular in large part due to the licensed and sports games, like Ghostbusters and NBA Jam and the hockey games (Genesis basically took ALL of the sports gamers that used to play on NES) and Batman and stuff like that. It was crazy. People forget that sort of stuff because those games have aged horribly but those were really heavy hitters at the time and Genesis was definitely more popular and better-advertised.
MrCunningham
Member
I honestly remember being a bit disappointed by Super Mario Bros. 3 when I first played it. I was a bit sad that I couldn't pick up and throw enemies at each other like I could in Super Mario Bros. 2, and that Luigi, Toad and Princess weren't selectable characters (Obviously Luigi was in the game as a second player, but...). But this was long before I ever knew that Super Mario Bros. 2 USA was a completely different game in Japan.
With that said, Super Mario Bros. 3 was still an amazing game. But when I think about it, I was actually a little disappointed by the lack of power-ups in Super Mario World when compared to Super Mario Bros. 3.
Oh, I thought it was designed to compete with the PC Engine CD.
Amazing game.
I really couldn't stand Mario 3 because Mario jumped too high. I'm not really a fan of any NES Mario game, for that reason, actually.
I grew up with the Gameboy games and 6 Golden Coins was basically the only thing I played for a year or so.
The world map and general game physics seemed to be much more World-like, so when I finally played SMW in about 2001 I was blown away. It was like 6 Golden Coins but better in every way.
I really couldn't stand Mario 3 because Mario jumped too high. I'm not really a fan of any NES Mario game, for that reason, actually.
I grew up with the Gameboy games and 6 Golden Coins was basically the only thing I played for a year or so.
The world map and general game physics seemed to be much more World-like, so when I finally played SMW in about 2001 I was blown away. It was like 6 Golden Coins but better in every way.
A large part of the reason why Sega is being rectonned from gaming history has to do with the sort of games that populated the Genesis library, and the kind of games that populated the SNES library. Sega's roots as an arcade company show - they generally made arcade games for the home, and other companies kind of followed their lead. This mean the games were often more difficult, and were usually focused on shorter experiences that took a long time to master. A typical, quality genesis title would be one that you could complete, start to finish, in about an hour if you were good enough, where getting good enough meant you had to spend weeks honing your skill. They excelled at making the kind of games where, every time you play, you got a little better and little farther.
Nintendo, by contrast, from the moment the NES dropped, changed their entire development philosophy. You can see it way back in games like Super Mario Bros and The Legend of Zelda. These are games you are meant to complete. They are long games if played correctly. As time went on, this philosophy really grew. The games people frequently cite all follow this formula - games with save features, where you are expected to make constant progress. The difficulty never really ramps, games generally aren't massively different in stage 1 vs stage 10 or whatever. Look at the games people list - Mario World, Final Fantasy, Super Metroid. Those are games where you are constantly progressing, you are never meant to basically start over.
As time went on, that model of game took over the industry. Outside of indie and smaller DD games, you never really have games with game overs anymore. The type of games SNES catered to, are the same style of games people play today. That means that today's youth, when they go back and play old games, go looking for games that play similar to modern games. That inevitably leads them to the SNES libary.
Time has dulled senses and made people forget the kind of games they liked on the Genesis. I can rattle off a hundred titles for the Genesis I could recommend, and more for the Master System and Saturn, but even then I suspect many would be turned off by what I recommend for the reasons above. I'll swear up and down that Ranger X was fucking incredible back in the day, one of the best games on the Genesis library, but someone will inevitably download the rom, play it for 10 minutes, get a game over, and call the game bullshit. Because that's not how it was meant to be played.
In reality, the games people remember and like from Sega, the ones that act and feel like Nintendo titles, are the extreme minority of their total output as a company. I think the average person is more in love with a type of game from Sega, than Sega themselves. Me? I adore Sega's outputs entirely - their stuff on the SMS and Saturn are my favorite things the company ever put out. I see the SMS and Saturn as being extremely similar systems, and I similarly see the Genesis and Dreamcast as being extremely similar. The SMS, early on, was mainly a bastion for Sega's Arcade output. Sega's best teams at the time worked in the arcades, and the early SMS output fell into two groups - good arcade ports (like Wonderboy), and generally bad original software (Like Alex Kidd in High Tech World). Near the end of the western life cycle, Sega (and their shadow contract developers like SIMS and Westone) gradually began creating games intended for the home market, similar to Nintendo's output, and that's where we get universally hailed SMS titles like Phantasy Star and Wonderboy III. That development philosophy kind of carried over to the Genesis and you got more titles in that vein, like Sonic the Hedgehog or Shining Force.
I see the Saturn the same way. Early on, mostly Arcade ports. Near the end, they started producing some amazing home-first games, like Panzer Dragoon Saga, and that style of game really bled over to the dreamcast where it flourished for two glorious years. Honestly, aside from graphics, Saturn titles from 1998 generally feel like dreamcast titles. It's weird.
Anywho, long story short - the sort of games Sega has excelled at are generally not in style anymore. For those who appreciate that style, they are probably the best ever at what they did. Thats why there are still some of us out there who will go to bat for Sega - because they produced games really unlike any other game maker for a vast majority of their history. I honestly feel like Capcom, Konami, Nintendo... those companies are all very similar. Their output feels the same, they could merge into one super company and none of their output would really suffer. Sega was vastly different from those companies. Sega's closest competitor, and their most similar rival, would actually be Namco. Sega's rivalry with Namco is mostly forgotten today, but they were much more fierce rivals in terms of output than they were with Nintendo.
EDIT: A perfect example of the kind of game I'm talking about re: Genesis vs SNES is castlevania. Even though the Actionvania style of games were on the NES and PCE as well, you ask many gamers what their favorite castlevania is and they'll say Castlevania IV. I hate Castlevania IV, it feels so slow and easy and clunky to me. My favorite is dracula X. All the reasons I like dracula X - the extreme difficulty, the no 8-way whip, the weird jumping mechanics - are frequently cited as reasons people prefer Castlevania IV instead.
it's a shift in taste. Today's gamers prefer home gaming over the style of arcade games that used to populate the Genesis.
Shmuely Bully
Member
At the time. I've since come to recognize SMB3 as the better game and tend to rank SML2 over it as well.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
In terms of pure 2D platforming design, SMB 3 is superior, but SMW was absolutely magical, colourfull, and delightful. SMB Wii and U are great, but they don't hold a candle to those two games.
speculawyer
Member
This.
I don't remember feeling like it blew my mind either. At the time I basically beat Mario 3 2-3 times a day since it was one of the few games I owned. But the SNES was a new system. I guess it just sorta looked like a prettier SMB3 (without the Racoon suit, which I think we all agree was an awful decision). But also, I knew my parents would never buy me a SNES, so it was kinda pointless to get hyped about it.
BomberMouse
Member
Didn't blew my mind at all as a kid. More of the same.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
When we got our SNES at launch my brother told me that on big screen tvs you could see the entire map of SMW at the same time without scrolling because the screen was so big. I believed him for years and still wish it was true.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Every boss fight in SMW sucked, but that's nothing new to the series.
Bowser's Castle on the other hand is fantastic.
Coming from Super Mario 3, World was sort of a disappointment to me.
3 introduced sliding, a world map, carrying power UPS (even of they couldn't be used in the levels), big enemies, secret maps and flying. Super Mario World did add some new things, the flip gates were pretty cool, ghost houses were neat, but most of the game felt like a better Mario game, not something mind blowing.
The game is good, and if 3 never happened it would have been a bigger deal, but Mario 3 was so mind blowing Nintendo had to make a movie to introduce it, a 60 minute intro to the commercial. THAT is mind blowing.
3 introduced sliding, a world map, carrying power UPS (even of they couldn't be used in the levels), big enemies, secret maps and flying. Super Mario World did add some new things, the flip gates were pretty cool, ghost houses were neat, but most of the game felt like a better Mario game, not something mind blowing.
The game is good, and if 3 never happened it would have been a bigger deal, but Mario 3 was so mind blowing Nintendo had to make a movie to introduce it, a 60 minute intro to the commercial. THAT is mind blowing.