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Final Fantasy VII Announced For PS4

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R

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
I think the funniest thing about the trailer is how like 80% of it is just footage from the FMVs. That's the part of the game that has aged the worst visually.
 
C

ColourRevolt

Member
zakislam said:
PC port for PS4 shown at PSX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNJ1y9YUiLY

Please be excited.

iLmAyOFGnAGWH.gif
Click to expand...

What if in Spring 2015 -- when this game is presumably releasing -- they're instead alluding to the release of a reveal trailer showcasing the FFVII remake? What if, GAF? WHAT IF?!?!?!?!
 
D

dramatis

Member
Koozek said:
That's why I said this myself:

Of course they'd have to rebuild everything from the ground up. But it's still not as much work as FFXV with its proper, complex 3D world and dynamic action battle-system. FFVII has simple game mechanics. World map proportions could stay the same - like Type-0 HD.
Look at the amount of CG movies that Visual Works pumps out every year just for some FFXIV promo trailers and for all those FF games. I'm sure they would be able to churn out enough for FFVIIR, too.
The 3D model amount is not significantly more than in FFX/X-2 HD or Type-0 HD, etc. Maybe I'm underestimating it, but I really don't think this kind of remake is that far-fetched.
Click to expand...
You're not reading. My answer is a comparison of the amount of work between remastering 10/10-2 HD and remastering 7, doing it in the style of REmake. Undoubtedly doing a "full blown modern version of the game" is going to be work on the level of 15, and extremely costly.

However, doing a REmake of 7 requires significantly more effort and resources than you think, and it is certainly going to require more money than 10/10-2 HD or Type-0 HD did. You are absolutely underestimating the amount of work required to "REmake" 7.

On top of my previous post, this is the answer to your insistence on "REmake style" being able to work:
APZonerunner said:
All those original renders are gone, though. They only exist as they do on the PS1 disc; at 320x240. You can't go back and re-render them, they're gone. Even as early as '98 Square couldn't find them, which meant that the PC version was pixelated on release. Any upres would, therefore, have to completely recreate and re-render each scene, which would be painstaking and expensive - and therein lies the problem. Square probably won't spend that amount of money without modernizing the game significantly in order to appeal to a wider audience (they plainly believe turn-based doesn't really float for AAA in 2014), but if they do that they risk 'ruining' FF7 and they know it, so it's easier to just not touch it.

If it was as simple as firing up the original source files and layering higher-res CG backgrounds over the existing code and then releasing at a budget price, believe me, Square would've done it. Most if not all of that stuff is lost, though.

Even in the case of something like Distant Worlds, you'll notice for FF7 music they liberally use clips of AC - and it's simply because, again, the highest res the FF7 CG scenes exist at is something like 640x480, and unlike games like FFX where they've actually re-rendered the scenes at a higher resolution for the huge concert hall screens, all they can do for FF7 is smooth out the original source files and upscale them... thus a lot of use of AC stuff, to avoid showing it for too long.

This problem is mostly unique to FF7 I believe, in part because chunks of FF7's CG/background generation was outsourced to a Hong Kong company that has long since closed.
Click to expand...
Furthermore, I stated changing the proportions of the character would, in a remake made of effort and not just money and rush, entail needing to adjust the backgrounds for the character proportion. Type-0 was built and created with the intention of using characters of proportionate size. It's not as simple as "Type-0 did it, so REmake FF7 can".
UUTAI1a.png

A9VnaRA.gif
Click to expand...
A realistically proportioned field character model wouldn't fit in the style of the existing game backgrounds. A realistically proportioned character would look more at home below because the background was designed and crafted with that style of character in mind:
3DtE7B0.jpg
Click to expand...
That is what art direction is.

Visual Works does not actually churn out that much work. The promotional trailers for FF14 are largely in-game cutscenes; the three pieces of production done for the game over the course of 2 years is the opening cutscene of FF14: ARR (no. 1), which was liberally recycled for the concluding scene of a raid (no. 2), and undoubtedly what is going to be the opening cutscene of the expansion, currently shown in parts in a teaser trailer (no. 3). The grand total of that amounts to about 10 minutes. Type-0 HD trailers are using scenes VW churned out back in 2010. Most likely VW is currently working on CGI for Rise of the Tomb Raider, FF15, and maybe Triad Wars. In a hypothetical development cycle of "REmake" 7, undoubtedly Visual Works would be the first to finish their portion of the job purely because Square Enix Japan is now "Square Enix Japan". Doesn't change the fact that such a project would not be financially appealing for Square.
 
V

VinFTW

Member
As I said to my friends in NeoNeoGAF:

Much to the dismay of some of you, I will unfortunately be supporting this and purchasing it.

I'm quite excited to hear what all the fuss is about and this will also be my first FF game (loved Lost Odyssey, so hopefully it's similar).
 
A

AgeEighty

Member
dramatis said:
However, doing a REmake of 7 requires significantly more effort and resources than you think, and it is certainly going to require more money than 10/10-2 HD or Type-0 HD did. You are absolutely underestimating the amount of work required to "REmake" 7.
Click to expand...

But again: so what?

What other game could S-E devote that kind of time, money and resources to that would sell better?

It should be well worth it.
 
F

FireCloud

Member
Could SE see a FF VII remake as potential competition for FFXV when it is hopefully releasing sometime next year?

That and their teams being involved with the production of FFXV and still supporting FFXIV, they may not have the resources to produce a FFVII remake. With their big mobile push, they may not have enough capacity to support something as involved as a FFVII remake.

I'm not sure what we saw before but I guess it was just a proof of concept instead of anything they were actually working on.

...I don't know...I assume none of us really does. It's all conjecture but at this point I'm not going to be counting on seeing an actual game around that earlier FFVII HD footage we've seen.
 
S

Shadow_FFVI

Member
Maybe this is just to gauge for interest. Everyone buy it! They will obviously announce it after FF XV releases and they will release it between it and FF XVI. Right, guys?...

I know I was extremely disappointed at the announcement on Saturday, but by Sunday I was actually looking forward to getting a Platinum trophy for my favorite game of all time.
 
A

Afrikan

Member
Discoid said:
Honestly I'm kind of surprised there wasn't any booing either. The rest of your post is kind of silly though brah.
Click to expand...

I think everyone was in utter shock....then in denial, thinking it was a joke and waiting for the punchline and the REAL FFVII being shown.....but nope.
 
F

FireCloud

Member
Afrikan said:
I think everyone was in utter shock....then in denial, thinking it was a joke and waiting for the punchline and the REAL FFVII being shown.....but nope.
Click to expand...

I kept waiting for the screens to transition to new screens during the presentation and them for them to say that the "original" FFVII graphics would be included with the HD version. But nope.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
I'm just surprised they announced it like it was a big deal. About as big as the psone version being available to buy on the ps3.

The only thing I like is that the PC version is the first version I played and it's been so long that I will probably go for it.
 
D

dramatis

Member
AgeEighty said:
But again: so what?

What other game could S-E devote that kind of time, money and resources to that would sell better?

It should be well worth it.
Click to expand...
The answer is dreadfully simple: FF16. FF17. FF18. DQ11. DQ12. DQ13. KH4. These are all titles that could better use the money and would sell better purely because they are fresh, untested, and able to react to the modern market and expand the audience rather than capitalizing on the existing hardcore fanbase.

Kakusei Million Arthur, a mobile game that probably cost a fraction of what a theoretical 'FF7 REmake' would, became a hit in Asia and likely produced more profit than even the 10/10-2 HD sales of about 500k (in Japan) did. With the budget of a 'FF7 REmake', Square could fund a bunch of mobile games and have 1 or 2 major hits that roll in more dough.

"So what?" Think with your brain and not with your heart.
 
A

AgeEighty

Member
dramatis said:
The answer is dreadfully simple: FF16. FF17. FF18. DQ11. DQ12. DQ13. KH4. These are all titles that could better use the money and would sell better purely because they are fresh, untested, and able to react to the modern market and expand the audience rather than capitalizing on the existing hardcore fanbase.

"So what?" Think with your brain and not with your heart.
Click to expand...

I think you should take your own advice.

The desire for a remake of FFVII goes well beyond the "hardcore fanbase". We're not talking about some kind of niche title like Beyond Good & Evil or Mother here. FFVII was one of the games that defined its generation; it was THE game that that made the PlayStation break away from the pack. Cloud and crew are still the characters people think of first when the words "Final Fantasy" come up.

Heck, I've even seen the tech writer for my city newspaper bring up S-E's refusal to remake FFVII, and he's largely clueless about gaming.

Meanwhile, more new FF and DQ titles are far from the runaway sure thing sales-wise that you paint them as. XIII sold 6.6 million units, which qualifies as a hit but not a blockbuster. I don't buy the argument that a VII remake doesn't have the potential to do the same or better.
 
K

Koozek

Member
dramatis said:
You're not reading. My answer is a comparison of the amount of work between remastering 10/10-2 HD and remastering 7, doing it in the style of REmake. Undoubtedly doing a "full blown modern version of the game" is going to be work on the level of 15, and extremely costly.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did read. Did you read my first post, before your answer, where I already said that it would have to be made from ground up with a new engine?^^ I never talked about old assets being re-rendered.
The 3D model amount (characters, monsters, etc.) is comparable to FFX/X-2, I think, though, as you said, the effort to touch them up is without doubt higher.
They could re-use many typical animations (especially for monsters, that are common in the series, like Behemots, etc.). SE should have a huge library of animations and models collected over the last decade of game development that they can use as a basis, by now.

It doesn't have to be on FFXV level, of course. Maybe above Type-0 or G-Bike, should Cyber Connect really do the remake :D
GAF, would you be satisfied with G-Bike quality? Here's a new gameplay video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly2NuOhUHyE

dramatis said:
However, doing a REmake of 7 requires significantly more effort and resources than you think, and it is certainly going to require more money than 10/10-2 HD or Type-0 HD did. You are absolutely underestimating the amount of work required to "REmake" 7.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's why I said I'm probably underestimating it. I obviously haven't thought it all through or calculated the estimated costs. Only threw my idea in the room.

dramatis said:
On top of my previous post, this is the answer to your insistence on "REmake style" being able to work:
APZonerunner said:
All those original renders are gone, though. They only exist as they do on the PS1 disc; at 320x240. You can't go back and re-render them, they're gone. [...]

If it was as simple as firing up the original source files and layering higher-res CG backgrounds over the existing code and then releasing at a budget price, believe me, Square would've done it. Most if not all of that stuff is lost, though.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Has nothing to do with what I said. My first post even said it would need to build from ground up, without reuse of any old assets.
Besides, REmake was also build from ground up, so I don't know why you mention the problem with the old assets being lost.

dramatis said:
Furthermore, I stated changing the proportions of the character would, in a remake made of effort and not just money and rush, entail needing to adjust the backgrounds for the character proportion. Type-0 was built and created with the intention of using characters of proportionate size. It's not as simple as "Type-0 did it, so REmake FF7 can".

A realistically proportioned field character model wouldn't fit in the style of the existing game backgrounds. A realistically proportioned character would look more at home below because the background was designed and crafted with that style of character in mind:

That is what art direction is.
Click to expand...
I mentioned Type-0 only with regard to the world map, which is in the same style as FFVII.

If they render every screen from ground up, anyway, it's no problem to change the art design a bit and adjust building- and entry/door-heights, also. Like in FFVIII, which you posted a screen of.
---

As I already said in my posts before: of course it wouldn't be an easy task - it would be like making a new game, yes. Still, it's more realistic than a FFXV-level remake.
One last question out of curiosity: Would you agree with me that a full-blown 3D, non-fixed-camera, remake would approximately cost and take around the same as FFXIII/FFXV? If not, why?
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
AgeEighty said:
Meanwhile, more new FF and DQ titles are far from the runaway sure thing sales-wise that you paint them as. XIII sold 6.6 million units, which qualifies as a hit but not a blockbuster. I don't buy the argument that a VII remake doesn't have the potential to do the same or better.
Click to expand...

I'm generally suspicious of any claims that AAA console JRPGs are a growth market in 2014.
 
H

Hubbl3

Unconfirmed Member
I'm waiting to see Square-Enix and/or Sony respond to this "incident", but I feel like they probably will never say anything about it.
 
SDCowboy

SDCowboy

Member
ElodieTicotoune said:
I can't believe he did not get BOOED on stage, if i would have been there I would have gotten up and started chanting " WE WANT A REMAKE" and made everyone join me I'm very confident that EVERY single person in there would have joined.

But NOOOO!!!! the same people applauded and cheered when they should have been voicing their disagreement. That was the best occasion to do so and they let it pass.
/Shakeshead in disbelief.
Click to expand...
I honestly think the crowd was too shocked to boo. I too was surprised there that he wasn't boo'd off the stage.
 
A

angelcage87

Member
Two days later I'm still mad, people shouldn't have applauded at least. Final Fantasy VII is the GTA of the JRPG's, meaning the title that everyone would buy regardless of the real quality of the title, due to hype alone. I can see it selling 20 million copies easily, especially if multiplatform. It could probably make the genre relevant again if its mechanics are well remodernized.
The game, and most importantly its fanbase, doesn't deserve the disservice it received from S-E.
 
A

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
If Square-Enix, at the very least, got rid of the blocky main-world characters and allowed us to use characters resembling the battle characters, that would've been better.

I'm currently in the bargaining stage of grief, as you can tell.

And I don't buy it that a developer consisting of some of the most talented developers in the world can't reskin or redraw the game's backgrounds because the originals were lost, when there are people out there who do it all the time on their own in a matter of months, only to have their projects shut down by asshole corps like Square-Enix. Chrono Trigger PC remake anyone?

If SE put in even the smallest amount of effort in giving a shit about their fans, we'd have been happy. Better looking character detail and updated backgrounds is all I truly wanted. None of the other stuff matters to me. Not even voice acting or how high-res the cutscenes would be. And hell, considering how crude and plain those cutscenes are by today's standards, they could've simply recreated them exactly as is but with HD resolution so it doesn't look like a blurry mess on today's TVs.
 
W

Wagram

Member
Could it be that they feel FFVII is perfect as is? Do we truly need a remake?

Let's be realistic here, people bitch that they aren't making one. However, people will bitch even if they did and crucify them if they messed up even one small minute detail.
 
M

Meccanical

Member
Wagram said:
Could it be that they feel FFVII is perfect as is? Do we truly need a remake?

Let's be realistic here, people bitch that they aren't making one. However, people will bitch even if they did and crucify them if they messed up even one small minute detail.
Click to expand...

Yep.

I know I would.

:^)
 
SDCowboy

SDCowboy

Member
Wagram said:
Could it be that they feel FFVII is perfect as is? Do we truly need a remake?

Let's be realistic here, people bitch that they aren't making one. However, people will bitch even if they did and crucify them if they messed up even one small minute detail.
Click to expand...

I don't even need a full blown remake with modern graphics. I would love one with just upgraded main characters, textures and most importantly, voice acting.
 
A

AgeEighty

Member
Wagram said:
Could it be that they feel FFVII is perfect as is? Do we truly need a remake?

Let's be realistic here, people bitch that they aren't making one. However, people will bitch even if they did and crucify them if they messed up even one small minute detail.
Click to expand...

Yes, it could be that they feel that way.

Yes, we need a remake.

The backgrounds don't look bad, but the characters are a blocky atrocity. The game's characters, world, and story deserve to be revisited, possibly more than most other games that have received graphical upgrades.
 
W

Wyndstryker

Member
Is an FFVII remake possible to be built from scratch? Absolutely.
Is it cheap? Nope.
Will the current SE do it? Nope.
Is the current SE even capable of pulling a remake off? Nope.

Thats really as far as things need to be thought on. Everything else is already needless speculation and whatnot.
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
VinFTW said:
As I said to my friends in NeoNeoGAF:

Much to the dismay of some of you, I will unfortunately be supporting this and purchasing it.

I'm quite excited to hear what all the fuss is about and this will also be my first FF game (loved Lost Odyssey, so hopefully it's similar).
Click to expand...

Go for it. Considering your avatar (you already have an appreciation for 90s games) you'll love it and have the same emotional connection those that played it at the zeitgeist did.

I've only been a fan for nearly 5 years (wow feels like only yesterday!). I fell in love with FFVII and went on to play through it twice that year.

I actually will probably buy this PS4 version since I don't have a gaming PC.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
if SE were to do an FF7 remake (which I have vocally been against for years as they'd just butcher it with a shonen anime style that doesn't work with realistic graphics), they would absolutely have to put the mainline FF series on hold and not release them anywhere close to each other.

the remake would cannibalize mainline sales if it came out within a year or two of each other.
 
M

muteki

Member
Nekofrog said:
if SE were to do an FF7 remake (which I have vocally been against for years as they'd just butcher it with a shonen anime style that doesn't work with realistic graphics), they would absolutely have to put the mainline FF series on hold and not release them anywhere close to each other.

the remake would cannibalize mainline sales if it came out within a year or two of each other.
Click to expand...

Seeing as XIII and its assets were used to cover off all single-player FFs for an entire generation, and current gen is already spoken for with XV, there is no chance for a complete remake any sooner than PS5.
 
L

linkboy

Member
I don't want a FF7 remake because they would fuck it up, big time. A remake would be nit-picked and any small thing would be blown out of proportion.

I just want a version of the game that looks halfway decent on a HDTV
 
Valonquar

Valonquar

Member
Seems like they could just use FFXIII's engine and just create a few character models/maps. It isn't like they aren't used to reusing assets out the wazoo already.
 
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