Triggerhappytel
Member
This is true. It was a reasonable film, but aside from the excellent CGI it didn't really stand out in any way at all.
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"Have we forgotten about Avatar?"
- Thread starter bengraven
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This is true. It was a reasonable film, but aside from the excellent CGI it didn't really stand out in any way at all.
| Praxis |
Banned
I'm trying to forget it. One of the most depressingly derivative films around with a budget that could have funded 4-5 films with actual ideas. Instead we end up with pretty visuals and not a lot else. Time spent I will never get back watching that shit.
Terminator was/is an amazing film and scifi classic. Avatar isn't.
Leaving all the discussion around the movie and the box office discussion aside, what's your opinion of the movie?
I really loved it when it came out, watched it like 3 times in the cinema including the extended edition.
But every time I see it it gets dumber. Last time I saw it was on a ferry in Thailand and I really was not feeling it. I'll probably see the sequel though.
I'm sure this will end up on one of those crow eating lists but I wouldn't be surprised if Avengers 2 outperforms Avatar 2. Avatar 2 will do well, but nowhere near what the first did.
But every time I see it it gets dumber. Last time I saw it was on a ferry in Thailand and I really was not feeling it. I'll probably see the sequel though.
I'm sure this will end up on one of those crow eating lists but I wouldn't be surprised if Avengers 2 outperforms Avatar 2. Avatar 2 will do well, but nowhere near what the first did.
The real puzzle is why this movie smashed records when so many other movies of similar caliber didn't even come close.(or failed miserably)
There has to be at least a semi-concrete answer to that.
And I very much agree with is post about the comparison to Titanic,which I think had elements of true greatness :
There has to be at least a semi-concrete answer to that.
And I very much agree with is post about the comparison to Titanic,which I think had elements of true greatness :
Triggerhappytel
Member
To be honest, I like Prometheus in that it was at least trying to be a little more interesting and meaningful than Avatar. I'd rather have a discussion with someone over the things Prometheus did right and wrong than that same discussion about Avatar.
Thatonemoor
Member
Loved Avatar when it first came out..... on the second showing it just dropped like a comet. Don't know how I didn't see how cliche the movie was on the first showing. Was probably distracted by all the pretty effects.
.
Box office success doesn't really have much to do with the long-term impact of a film; eventually it'll get to a point where people look at the top-grossing movies of all time and look at each other quizzically about Avatar. Sounds good to me. It was a forgettable movie, and even seeing it in 3D I didn't see what made its special effects so amazing.
Yeah, Prometheus is like watching a sports car driven recklessly by a drunk driver until it slams into a wall.
Avatar is like watching a sports car go slowly through a car wash.
With Prometheus you could at least go through the wreckage afterwards.
Titanic and Forrest Gump were huge films that made a lot of money, and because they were huge films, they left a large impact on pop culture. Avatar not being a "brand" yet doesn't excuse it.
No matter how you slice it, the film just didn't leave the kind of cultural imprint you'd expect from a big film release, let alone the highest grossing film of all time.
Bridesmaids has had a much bigger impact than Avatar.
So what are you trying argue here? That the movie was good?
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
I liked watching it in 3D, rewatched it in 2D and realized my suspicion that 3D is just a gimmick that adds zero to the movie, and that the gimmick had made me forgive the shitty story and lame villians. I agree with that Prometheus is a better film, although neither is particularly great.
AdventureRacing
Member
It may have left no cultural impact and outside of forums i can't remember the last time i heard someone mention the movie but the sequels will still be huge imo. People may not have become big fans but they're aware of the movie and when the sequel is coming it's a franchise they know and that they enjoyed (even if it didn't leave a massive impact).
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I think the sequels will do transformers numbers. $1 billion plus is nothing to sneeze at, but it's about the best you can expect when people show up just for the spectacle and not for the engagement of the characters.
This movie made 3D a thing. If there was no Avatar, there would be no Gravity. That's a huge influence on filmmaking. But as a story, it was very much been there, done that. Even the spinoff videogame vanished like a fart in the wind.
This movie made 3D a thing. If there was no Avatar, there would be no Gravity. That's a huge influence on filmmaking. But as a story, it was very much been there, done that. Even the spinoff videogame vanished like a fart in the wind.
Sectorseven
Member
The problem is back then there was a much wider gap between a typical summer action movie and a truly epic blockbuster. These days there's a huge movie property just about every month and they're all competing for mind share. The largest gap between sequels these days is three years with rare exceptions like The Dark Knight Rises, where the IP and director have such exceptionally large appeal. Appeal is something Cameron certainly has, but seven years is a long time in today's movie world. Also, there's most certainly going to be more competition for ticket sales next time around, with a Star Wars almost guaranteed each December moving forward.
Nonsense. Pure, unthinking nonsense. Half of the biggest GAF movie topics are about huge blockbusters that are mainstream in America that they adore - everything from Guardians of the Galaxy to The Dark Knight to Mission Impossible.
If you can't engage people on the criticisms they're making, you shouldn't bother exposing yourself as someone who fails to be able to adequately analyze any of the issues people have. It's OK to like Avatar. It's not OK to denigrate the reason people dislike Avatar as some drive against mainstream culture, since the complaints suggest that is demonstrably false.
I disagree with kruis, but interest, talk or reception at GAF is not necessarily reflective of mainstream success or cultural influence though, see e.g. the Hunger Games movies. The latest one didn't even get its own thread.
evilromero
Member
It's a hard film to sit through. Very overwrought and plodding. Sure, it borrows heavily from other films like Dances with Wolves, but most films do this. Only in Avatar's case, it just doesn't feel fresh or inventive.
It's been forgotten because, as the article points out, there's just nothing memorable about the film itself outside of its technical achievements. Look at all of Cameron's other films- True Lies, T2, T1, Aliens, The Abyss. They are all exceptionally memorable and are referenced so much in contemporary film. And now they're making SIX more? What a terrible springboard that is sure to lead to failure. How many good franchises sprung from a mediocre first movie?
I'd look at the Matrix as a parallel example, except that movie left a huge mark on the action film genre in terms of style and camera work. The Matrix tried to ignite a franchise, but the subsequent films completely spoiled whatever integrity the first movie had.
I suppose in a weird way the Avatar franchise has nowhere to go but up. Maybe the new movies will be Cameron's return to something great. But I'm not hopeful. The characters have already been established as uninteresting.
It's been forgotten because, as the article points out, there's just nothing memorable about the film itself outside of its technical achievements. Look at all of Cameron's other films- True Lies, T2, T1, Aliens, The Abyss. They are all exceptionally memorable and are referenced so much in contemporary film. And now they're making SIX more? What a terrible springboard that is sure to lead to failure. How many good franchises sprung from a mediocre first movie?
I'd look at the Matrix as a parallel example, except that movie left a huge mark on the action film genre in terms of style and camera work. The Matrix tried to ignite a franchise, but the subsequent films completely spoiled whatever integrity the first movie had.
I suppose in a weird way the Avatar franchise has nowhere to go but up. Maybe the new movies will be Cameron's return to something great. But I'm not hopeful. The characters have already been established as uninteresting.
The latest HG movies certainly benefited from the groundwork laid by the books and the previous films. I think for the most part, the third movie will mostly be forgotten as it received a very lukewarm response (the aggregate reviews are a bit misleading, as upon further observation they all have similar criticism- slow, boring, uneventful).
Can Crusher
Banned
I bet after the sequel that nobody forgets.
Nor did I imply it did. But "mainstream success" has zero relevance to how GAF reacts to a movie. That's what Kruis was claiming.
It's a common refrain in OT and Gaming side by people incapable of defending their positions - they try to pretend it's some reflexive disdain for "popularity" that makes people hate. It's unthinking garbage.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
It's not that most of us want to do that, it's just that we've seen better, much better, and feel quality should be rewarded over marketing whizzbang. But we're also realists, fwiw.
Also regarding Titanic you better believe over half of that success came from casting Dicaprio as the lead. Genuine star power kind of guy at the time. That was a bigger factor than the quality of the story itself (won't comment on that it's been maybe a decade since I've seen Titanic)
Wat? Lol no it didn't! Prometheus was about as hyped as any typical summer Hollywood action flick. Most of its hype was coming from Alien/Aliens fans, myself included. Once it came out reality began to set in.
Unless you're being sarcastic, of course
JumpJeff84
Member
When Titanic came out, the secret to its success is the fact that so many teenage girls made repeat trips to the cinema, as they were entranced with the love story between Jack and Rose. Boom, ends up being the top grossing movie of all time.
Then for his follow up, Cameron makes a sci-fi movie with an incredible world that has people coming back to the theatre again and again. Not for the love story though- they came back for Pandora. And ends up outgrossing Titanic by 600 Million dollars.
Fucking nuts. It wasn't even teenage girls that made Avatar a success, at least not to the extent that Titanic was. Cameron dwarfed his previous box office record and didn't even target the same demographic to do it. Has anyone ever done anything like that before?
Then for his follow up, Cameron makes a sci-fi movie with an incredible world that has people coming back to the theatre again and again. Not for the love story though- they came back for Pandora. And ends up outgrossing Titanic by 600 Million dollars.
Fucking nuts. It wasn't even teenage girls that made Avatar a success, at least not to the extent that Titanic was. Cameron dwarfed his previous box office record and didn't even target the same demographic to do it. Has anyone ever done anything like that before?
I respectfully disagree. Terminator is a 90 minute chase seen with nothing in the way of narrative or character development. In my humble opinion Cameron is only marginally better than Bay. People only remember it fondly because they were children when they first saw it. But if it came out nor, or they were adults in 1984, they'd think it was trite.
JumpJeff84
Member
Nah, adults dug Terminator when it came out. It was a very unique film at the time. I'm not saying that it's a masterpiece, but in addition to being a great vehicle for Arnold at the time, it had the feel of an indie film. It's really a small film with only a few characters and some intense violence. The scene where Arnie attacks the police station?
Comparing him to Bay is inaccurate. Bay's films offend people with offensive racism, shitty pandering, poorly shot action sequences and characters and plots that are borderline nonsensical.
Sectorseven
Member
Did you watch Pocahontas 2?
Uhhhhhhhh Sarah Conner develops from a ditzy waitress into a bad ass who destroys the Terminator.
Terminator isn't winning oscars for screen writing but it's a very intense horror movie with a cool premise, great fun performances from the leads (one of which goes on to be the biggest action movie star of all time,) and a pumping synth soundtrack. Terminator is the shit. Avatar is garbage.
bengraven
Member
This isn't some kind of insult on the film, unless you mean the people saying it was a piece of shit. It's a huge question: HOW did this become the top film of all time? As you said, there was a lot of negative hype going in (just as there was with Titanic, now that I remember it, and the Heaven's Gate analogies were running full time with that, nearly every article concentrating on how much money Cameron was sinking into that ship, no pun).
Suddenly the numbers were skyrocketing. As I said earlier, I personally didn't know anyone who had seen it. No one talked about it. I have a very classic group of sci fi fan friends and no one was talking about it. It's almost like someone was hacking the studio, inflating the numbers. These days people talk about the big films of the last years - I hear talk about the big Oscar winners or box office films from the past. Hell, I hear more people talking about Silver Linings Playbook than Avatar.
I'm curious as why people have forgotten and how it happened in the first place. This wouldn't be a question had it made 300m domestically and left it at that. This is the biggest box office film of all time.
Box of Kittens
Banned
It reminds me of the arguments I'd have on the playground. "You only hate it because it's popular" was a favorite way for pretty much any kid to ignore what someone else was saying.
Yeah, the movie really does nothing wrong in my opinion. At the same time though I definitely think it's one of Cameron's weaker films.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Experiencing Pandora was a bigger draw to the film than any of the writing or characters. People fell in love with the world and that's how it became such a huge success. And people will come back and pull those numbers again to go back to Pandora.
I'm not a fan of the film, I don't think it's necessarily awful or great, but with the way he executed it Cameron knew people would fall in love with Pandora and the Na'vi. The world building is definitely the movie's biggest strength and I think the sequels really can be something special if we can get some decent characters in there.
The CG and 3D were excellent and that's what made Pandora feel like a real place that you visit when you see the film, it's a phenomenon in every sense of the word.
I'm not a fan of the film, I don't think it's necessarily awful or great, but with the way he executed it Cameron knew people would fall in love with Pandora and the Na'vi. The world building is definitely the movie's biggest strength and I think the sequels really can be something special if we can get some decent characters in there.
The CG and 3D were excellent and that's what made Pandora feel like a real place that you visit when you see the film, it's a phenomenon in every sense of the word.
JumpJeff84
Member
From what I understand, people were going back to watch Avatar again and again because they loved being in Pandora. Granted, I only ever met one person in my day to day life who was that into the movie, but there apparently were a lot. And that's the way to break box office records- have people see your movie in the theatre multiple times.
And the movie was like the ultimate theatre movie- it had the 3D technology and people went for the spectacle. I saw it in the theatre expecting to find it mediocre, and it met my expectations, but I still saw it. This was the ultimate "yeah guess I should see it in the theatre movie".
And I have to imagine it did real well in foreign markets. The simplicity of the story seems like it would have translated everywhere. Probably made a killing overseas.
JumpJeff84
Member
Found this old article about repeat viewings of Avatar. Sorry, should have copied the link as well:
This effect is so weird. I knew literally no person at all who saw Avatar more than once... mostly because everyone I know that did see it thought it was pretty middling. It was alright to see, but that's about it. Every other big movie I can think of I've known people who saw it more than once or recommended it, etc. Guardians of the Galaxy had people I know seeing it like 3-4 times. I remember when Titanic came out, too, a lot of people saw it a few times.
This is pretty puzzling. So many people have seen this movie, but nobody talks about it. Nobody quotes it, nobody talks about how they can't wait for the sequel.
I think I saw this movie three times, two in 3d and one time in 2d, and I can't remember a single line from the movie. Not one character name. The only thing I can remember is the badass 3d and the world the movie takes place in. That is probably the same for most people that saw the movie. What a testament to Cameron's movie prowess.
If it was a 2d movie in a lame earth-like alien world, the movie would have most likely bombed hard.
I think I saw this movie three times, two in 3d and one time in 2d, and I can't remember a single line from the movie. Not one character name. The only thing I can remember is the badass 3d and the world the movie takes place in. That is probably the same for most people that saw the movie. What a testament to Cameron's movie prowess.
If it was a 2d movie in a lame earth-like alien world, the movie would have most likely bombed hard.
JumpJeff84
Member
This is from the article I posted. Seems that 55 year old electricians from Illinois were the demographic that were seeing the movie again and again, as opposed to the 13 year old girls that were rewatching Titanic.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah my dad (67) fucking LOVES the movie, he watches it pretty much any time it comes on a movie channel on TV. When they come to visit I try to get them to watch ANYTHING from my vast library of Blu-rays but he always picks fucking Avatar.
I have no doubt it's super popular with older folks who haven't really seen a lot of fantasy/sci-fi or anything with comparatively excellent CGI.
I have no doubt it's super popular with older folks who haven't really seen a lot of fantasy/sci-fi or anything with comparatively excellent CGI.
I agree with all of this. I'm still confused.
I've never even seen the movie all the way through (saw maybe 30 minutes or so). I caught some of it a few years ago when I was channel surfing. It looked amazing. But I never finished it.
JumpJeff84
Member
Yeah, I figure it's older people as well. Crazy that Cameron targeted teen girls and THEN older people for his two record-breaking box office smashes. Most successful directors only ever hit with one demographic.
I suppose maybe it did make money on a different demographic. I had a lot of movie going friends around my age and a bit older at the time Avatar came out, so that's why it baffles me so much. It should have hit that demographic pretty hard, but it didn't seem to.
I personally don't go see many movies myself. I have a few directors I like, but I never really have to go see things in the theaters. If I miss a theater run it doesn't bother me. Movies like Guardians of the Galaxy and some of the other bigger ones nowadays and before had sooooo many people going to them that I couldn't really resist. Stuff like Avengers, Harry Potter, Return of the King, etc just had so many people seeing them and reporting back that they were good. I felt way left out of the social circle if I didn't see them. I managed to not see Avatar and never had any sort of pull for seeing it.
| Praxis |
Banned
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
People forget everything fast these days. We ain't in the 80s and 90s any more.
That is the only reason why "we" have forgot about it.
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