aygomyownroad
Member
High five!
Seriously never appealed to me and after hearing the story wasn't very good I'm actually happy I missed out on it.
If there was a sequel that was actually good and not a gimmick for 3d I may go see it.
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"Have we forgotten about Avatar?"
- Thread starter bengraven
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High five!
Seriously never appealed to me and after hearing the story wasn't very good I'm actually happy I missed out on it.
If there was a sequel that was actually good and not a gimmick for 3d I may go see it.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
I forgot about it by the middle of the second act
nelsonroyale
Member
It was entertaining, but it just wasn't that good. It had its time. Still popular culture surely remembers far worse things.
Mainly because of this thread, I started getting an itching to watch Avatar again. So yesterday I made the plunge. Took out the blu-ray, put in the disc, selected the extended edition, turned off the lights, sat back...
An hour later I had to stop because I had about enough. It wasn't bad. I still enjoy many aspects of the movie - the production design, the ships, mechs, and fauna are fantastic. But two things bothered me and made it less engaging.
The creatures on Pandora have this really oily/shiny skin as part of their design, and when rendered in CG it looks really cheap for some reason. The animation and modeling is clearly top notch, but the way it's designed to look makes the texturing feel odd in an unpleasant way. Like CG FMVs from older games. Takes me out of it, especially during stuff like the chase.
The other thing was how the Navi are portrayed. It's a really generic and dumbed down "savage natives" tone which is pretty typical for these western colonization stories, but when coupled with the thought and effort which went into creating this alien world with an ecosystem, the way the actual sentient aliens are designed just feels lazy. The way they talk and express themselves also adds to the disappointment. Just too Space Africa for my liking.
Will probably try to watch another hour later tonight, and maybe finish it off on the weekend. This is definitely not something I can still through on one sitting anymore.
An hour later I had to stop because I had about enough. It wasn't bad. I still enjoy many aspects of the movie - the production design, the ships, mechs, and fauna are fantastic. But two things bothered me and made it less engaging.
The creatures on Pandora have this really oily/shiny skin as part of their design, and when rendered in CG it looks really cheap for some reason. The animation and modeling is clearly top notch, but the way it's designed to look makes the texturing feel odd in an unpleasant way. Like CG FMVs from older games. Takes me out of it, especially during stuff like the chase.
The other thing was how the Navi are portrayed. It's a really generic and dumbed down "savage natives" tone which is pretty typical for these western colonization stories, but when coupled with the thought and effort which went into creating this alien world with an ecosystem, the way the actual sentient aliens are designed just feels lazy. The way they talk and express themselves also adds to the disappointment. Just too Space Africa for my liking.
Will probably try to watch another hour later tonight, and maybe finish it off on the weekend. This is definitely not something I can still through on one sitting anymore.
The movie didn't leave much of an impression on me. It was very pretty with great visuals, but that was about it. I didn't think it was that bad, but it's definitely not a movie I want to see ever again.
Something about the ending always bugged me too with how Sam Worthington's character was referring to the humans as they left.
Needless to say, I'll probably skip out on the sequels. I was confused that there were even going to be sequels given how the movie seemed to wrap things up pretty well.
Something about the ending always bugged me too with how Sam Worthington's character was referring to the humans as they left.
Needless to say, I'll probably skip out on the sequels. I was confused that there were even going to be sequels given how the movie seemed to wrap things up pretty well.
akachan ningen
Member
I have. That movie was shite.
elrechazado
Banned
Interesting that all of these pages and the only real defense of the movie has been that it made lots of money and appeals to popularity.
User 479360
Banned
I'd pretty much forgotten about it. It was an okay watch the first time through, and was only noteworthy because of its 3D. After all, it wasn't all that original to begin with.
I don't particularly want sequels, or care if the series continues in any way. But I'll likely watch them (on TV).
I don't particularly want sequels, or care if the series continues in any way. But I'll likely watch them (on TV).
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Someone should do a poll of how many people say the movie's trash compared to how many said it's good/decent based off the posts here, and make a bar graph out of it.
I want to see an unsharpened pencil already!
I want to see an unsharpened pencil already!
crazyrabbits
Banned
Pretty much.
I think a lot of the problems had to do with the fact that the whole experience felt so... sanitized. Cameron's always been a rebel filmmaker, even when he's working with a studio. He fires people for not understanding his vision, puts actors in potentially-dangerous situations (which fuels their performances on film) and has a "my way or the highway" mentality.
Avatar felt like a film that was designed and written by a committee, all the way up from the story to the effects. It reminds me of Superman Returns, another movie that had a ton of hype (and the box office to back it up), but just sort of disappeared from the cultural radar because the story was middling and it felt like the whole thing was shot on a green-screen.
Reading through this topic, I had to jog my memory to remember half of it. Best as I recall, no one besides Saldana really got any boost in star power from this film. I don't know what the hell happened to Leona Lewis (the "award bait song" singer). Worthington's been in a couple other projects (Terminator: Salvation, COD Black Ops games) but seems more well known these days for his antics against the paparazzi. Lang was really good, but he was the villain and (alongside Weaver's character) only seems like they're being brought back - if the various rumors I've heard are any indication - because they were the most interesting part of the film.
I have no interest in watching a sequel.
Are you referring to the quote of: "The Aliens were sent back to their dying world?"
I'm guessing that was supposed to be an amusing trope reversal where in old black and white alien invasion movies (which Cameron grew up with) you would often hear a remark like that or very similar to that at the end when humanity drove away alien invaders.
My guess as for why the movie was the epitome of "Generic" was that was probably what Cameron wanted in terms of trying to "appeal to the widest possible audience", so basically give them a story that everyone can somewhat relate to at some level or something that will be inoffensive or not too difficult to think about. Plus I'm sure there was a lot of "This is the movie and story I've always wanted to tell" with Cameron so he probably just stuck to it.
The same was true for the Na'vi design. He wanted an appealing "silhouette" of an alien for the romance angle to be plausible, so tall/thin was in. As for why everything is blue and shiny is because it reminded him of this undersea adventures since Pandora flora/fauna is primarily influenced by what lives in our oceans. I too wish the Na'vi had been designed with a bit more exotic/alien elements to them, maybe make them more monstrous but then that would destroy the romance angle completely.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
It wasn't forgetten, it's five years old and people still talk about it. It's got many more sequels in the works to build its brand. It's also happens to be a great movie for running new tvs thru the ropes, due to its popping color spectrum and good 3D, so I still watch it.
I hope the theme of future Avatars is about the avatar concept itself, not the greed and cruelty of humanity on the beautiful planet of Pandora.
I hope the theme of future Avatars is about the avatar concept itself, not the greed and cruelty of humanity on the beautiful planet of Pandora.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
The best "defense" of this movie is that it was great escapism and had beautifully designed 3D for its time. It single handedly brought 3D back to popularity.
It's not written by committee, but it is certainly diluted compared to the original script, and really it had no choice but to be.
Going by the original concept, the film would be completely total anti-american, with demolishment of any military sympathy which gleefully relishes in gruesomely killing off said soldiers.
For what it's worth, the final story is simple, with a lot of more interesting bits on the cutting room floor, but if stuck to the original plan, it would be a political disaster for any studio to even attempt to release it IMO. The original script actually ends with Jake threatening any human who returns to Pandora with death.
same, the generic Pocahontas wannabe story was definitely what took me out of the movie the most when I first seen it. It's literally Pocahontas! It's amazing how much the movie would have benefitted from just a couple of tweaks in the script.
maybe the original script would have actually made the movie decent to watch? I also wish it was movie suicide to do the "noble savage" trope for the billionth time (and poorly to boot)
I also don't think they could have made a more two dimensional primary villain. He was basically a cardboard cutout of movie cliches
krameriffic
Member
At the rate Cameron is making movies at this point he'll be dead before he can get 3 more out.
WrenchNinja
Member
I remember.
It wasn't a good film, but a great cinema experience.
It was a film people were told to see in theaters because of the spectacle. And for what its worth, It was worth it. The issue was the acting, plot, writing and every other aspect didn't deliver. Even for a Cameron film, I can't recite any of the lines. When I can still shout out lines from T1, T2, True Lies, Titanic. Even his weakest film The Abyss, Ted Harris still gave a fairly strong remember-able performance. Avatar just exists.
It was a film people were told to see in theaters because of the spectacle. And for what its worth, It was worth it. The issue was the acting, plot, writing and every other aspect didn't deliver. Even for a Cameron film, I can't recite any of the lines. When I can still shout out lines from T1, T2, True Lies, Titanic. Even his weakest film The Abyss, Ted Harris still gave a fairly strong remember-able performance. Avatar just exists.
Remember, this is what Cameron wants us to think about his sequels:
“I can tell you one thing about them: They’re gonna be bitchin.’ You will sh*t yourself with your mouth wide open.”
On the one hand, I don't think there is any way for the series to get even more Generic than it already was.
“I can tell you one thing about them: They’re gonna be bitchin.’ You will sh*t yourself with your mouth wide open.”
On the one hand, I don't think there is any way for the series to get even more Generic than it already was.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Would have paid to see that on the big screen!
Art, real art mind you, is supposed to question the status quo and ask uncomfortable questions about the society we live in. That sounds like a movie that would've done it in a neat way, but alas it wasn't meant to be.
I mean, in your words it basically sounds like Ferngully meets Aliens.
Did he really said that? Ugh
radios shipping overview
Member
Wow, those both came out in '09? It feels like Avatar came out years before it. And yeah, I remember a lot more of District 9, and would gladly watch it again. Avatar would probably put me to sleep.
Well, the movie was originally written in 1994. So Cameron was younger and clearly angrier then.
The final movie actually has a lot of stuff that was shot that would improve the narrative/characters. Problem is most of it was cut and unfinished.
Yeah, he said that a month ago after having finished writing all the scripts with his screenwriters for several months.
Again, it will be a first if something Cameron directs doesn't end up being a blockbuster of some sort. However, there's no chance it will make the bank of the original I am pretty sure of that barring some unforeseen development.
I actually liked some of the soundtrack even though it was pretty derivative work from James Horner.
Quaritch
Hometree Destruction
Lab Shut Down
The War (best one)
The sequels will obliterate international box office. I think surpassing the gross of the original as honestly not out of the realm of possibility with at least one of them. I have no doubt the shit JC is planning will be something never before seen.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Right off of T2? Lol yeah I can only imagine. Didn't know that tho thanks for sharing that tidbit.
Yeah, I keep forgetting about the International box office.
Domestic: $760,507,625 27.3%
+ Foreign: $2,027,457,462 72.7%
That's where the money is. Maybe that's why the "Generic" Storyline worked?
As unlikely as it is, it would be incredibly hilarious if all of the Avatar sequels managed to outperform Titanic. The top five highest grossing movies would all be Cameron flicks.
In a market like China, the story connected far more, compared to say here in the US where we've seen this type of story before. There were lots of news stories about this at the time. Don't be shocked to see mindblowing results in that market and many other emerging ones. Outgrossing the original is not impossible imo. And as usual, never understimate Cameron's desire to outperform himself. He isn't Michael Bay, I am positive he's taken the criticism and is using it to make something even better.
Don't know if this has been posted yet. I remember this from a while back that Avatar is the same as Disney's Pocahontas.
http://themovieblog.com/2010/avatar-really-just-pocahontas/
http://themovieblog.com/2010/avatar-really-just-pocahontas/
To be "fair", this isn't a Avatar only problem. Hollywood is more interested in franchises than in stars these days. They built up Jennifer Lawrence and Bale, and thats pretty much it the last years.
They don't have to outperform Titantic. They just need to outperform whatever is #3. Right now it's Avengers at 1.5 billion.
I never understood the hoopla over unobtainium. It is a real thing after all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium
Should they just have made up a "cool" word?
Should they just have made up a "cool" word?
Hard to remember a movie where the main takeaways are that hopping on a space dragon solves all your problems and the best way to solve racial inequity is to completely forsake your race by permanently turning into another one.
Just felt a little off to me. Really cornball, even more than other films that tackle the same exact issue.
Main problem with Avatar isn't that it's downright bad, just that it's not very memorable past the crazy graphical design.
Just felt a little off to me. Really cornball, even more than other films that tackle the same exact issue.
Main problem with Avatar isn't that it's downright bad, just that it's not very memorable past the crazy graphical design.
Death Metalist
Member
Just to be clear, I agree with you that the first three qualify as films having a big cultural impact on their own. But still, there are a few things responsible for their bigger cultural impact that have less to do with the film itself, I think.
First, all of them are now at least trilogies. Yes, I would agree with the stance that every one of them made a lot of impact on their own (and maybe, for Matrix and Jurassic Park, the sequels didn't any good), but still, if you have three films, it's definitely easier to stay in the mind of the public, especially if there's a bit of time between the original and the sequels.
Then there's the fact that Toy Story is Disney. If there's any company that knows how to produce cultural impact, it's them. Just ask people how many of the old stories they adapted are thought to be original stories by them (yes, that's mainly older films, but I'm just trying to emphasise how good Disney is at this). As to merchandise, I mean, it's a film about living toys. Merchandise practically produces itself.
And Jurassic Park? Come on. It has dinosaurs in it. The one thing people know about Earth's prehistory. JP certainly helped the dinosaur hype a lot, but I'd say they were pretty well-known as the "badasses" of Earth's history before. JP built upon something that already had widely-spread cultural impact.
Which leaves The Matrix. And that is at least in my eyes the film which really fits my requirements well and has tremendously more cultural impact than Avatar.
Uh oh :/
Yeah, pretty much this. I didn't hate it but it is near the bottom in terms of favorite Cameron films. Aliens is still my favorite by him.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I think I can agree with this, but isn't Avatar kind of in the same ballpark as Jurassic Park? Aliens are just as beloved as dinosaurs to most people, some even more.
Some folks would probably stretch that out to say aliens are the badasses of space's history but that would be pushing it imo.
Still tho, they both were popularizing off pre-existing cultural phenomenons, as it were.
Agreed completely. The science and the world building is fantastic. The Navi noble savage angle kills this movie for me.
Maddocks
Member
Sam Worthington's terrible acting had something to do with it. Once Terminator Salvation came out and he couldn't keep his accent at bay for 3 lines people started to realize he sucks and it retroactively brought down avatar.
The movie itself was an experience though, but watching it back and seeing Sam struggle is a eww moment I can't shake anymore.
The movie itself was an experience though, but watching it back and seeing Sam struggle is a eww moment I can't shake anymore.
There's plenty of defense for the movie aside from its tech.
There's the amazing pace of the film. The brilliantly shot action scenes that puts every other modern director to shame. A freakin tree fell and its one of the greatest thing I've ever seen in theater. The world of Pandora feels like an actual place you can go to. That's an achievement in the art and design of the world.
As for the story, say what you will but it was able to present an entire world, introduce unlikable (likable) villains, and kept a strong focal point around the main character and be coherent.
People want to rag on Cameron for his writing but it's actually quite brilliant in its simplicity while still being engaging enough to keep people entertain for almost 3 hours.
Avatar is 5 years old yes, but let's be fair. It was already forgotten about after like 2 years.
I don't know what Hunger Games' place in pop culture will be half a decade from now, but it's already reverberated more than Avatar did.
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