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Mario 64 and FF7; two revolutionary games, which shaped/impacted the industry more?

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
I need to ask this, based on how you're addressing this: Roughly how old are you?

Your point of reference sounds more like a reflection of a relatively young person who isn't separating their own experience from the trends in a wider field that predates them. I can say plainly that the storytelling and narrative of FF VII doesn't have much novelty compared to earlier works, in terms of influence. Or failing that at least, what specifics were carried from VII to a range of later games as you see it?

I'm old enough to have been there from the beginning of the NES at the very least (Mario 1, Zelda and Final Fantasy 1 were my first games) . FFVII didn't do anything "new" like the way the Wii brought in motion controls (an new way of playing) or set a standard for controls like Mario 64 did. What FFVII did is push storytelling for consoles forwarded by combining a huge plot with (at the time) amazing visuals and music, into a polished package before unseen that blew everybody at the time away. It showed the naysayers that RPGs weren't just those "dorky games" (not my words, I knew people who hated RPGs) and that it was okay and even cool to enjoy an RPG. No need to hide in the basement playing Secret of Mana! It was ok to play FFVII in the living room with your friends around. It legitimized storytelling in games for the general public and was the biggest leap forward in technology graphically (same with Mario 64).

FFVII certainly legitimized RPGs in the West. Going from Sony's ridiculous no-RPG policy they had near the beginning of the PS1 era, and having to torture ourselves with Beyond the Beyond, FFVII opened the floodgates for tons of RPGs to come to the West for years, extending to the PS2 that we never would have received otherwise. You guys can deny but I was there, FFVII is at the very least one of the if not the game most responsible for starting the cinematic trend in games that is so prevalent in games today (TLoU, even FPS like Halo).
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
The Last of Us owes way more to Resident Evil, which predates FF7. Way more. And Halo owes nothing to it. It's a classic PC style fps game. If Halo owes something to any specific game, it's Goldeneye for proving that multiplayer focused fps games work and have a market on consoles.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Y'know, how much did FFVII really legitimize RPGs in the west? It's possible it may have legitimized it for what ultimately became a niche audience. From then till now, Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts are the only JRPGs that sell a ton of copies outside Japan unless you count Pokemon. Everything else that has been successful has been so on a niche scale.

I would argue that Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim have had more market impact for RPGs on consoles in the west. It might be too soon to tell in terms of the whole genre, but Skyrim sold over 30 freaking million copies. It might actually be the best-selling RPG ever now. (it's at least neck-and-neck with Pokemon Red and Green).

Just throwing the thought out there.

The Last of Us owes way more to Resident Evil, which predates FF7. Way more. And Halo owes nothing to it. It's a classic PC style fps game. If Halo owes something to any specific game, it's Goldeneye for proving that multiplayer focused fps games work and have a market on consoles.

As for the industry in general, I would say FFVII did indeed kickstart the major trend of how Sony and Microsoft advertised and promoted console games. It helped steer the course for the current era of games being identified by filmic grandness. FFVII was not alone in starting this though. It may have been the spearhead, but at its side were games like Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid. I have a feeling that eventually influenced the path for games like Uncharted, Last of Us, and possibly even Halo (though less so), at least in terms of how they were promoted. Naughty Dog even admitted Uncharted (or what became Uncharted) was originally going to be something more cartoonish like Crash and Jak, but Sony asked for something darker that they could market in a way similar to how Resident Evil or FFVII were marketed (even mentioning Halo), and Naughty Dog came up with Uncharted in response.
 
I'm old enough to have been there from the beginning of the NES at the very least (Mario 1, Zelda and Final Fantasy 1 were my first games) . FFVII didn't do anything "new" like the way the Wii brought in motion controls (an new way of playing) or set a standard for controls like Mario 64 did. What FFVII did is push storytelling for consoles forwarded by combining a huge plot with (at the time) amazing visuals and music, into a polished package before unseen that blew everybody at the time away. It showed the naysayers that RPGs weren't just those "dorky games" (not my words, I knew people who hated RPGs) and that it was okay and even cool to enjoy an RPG. No need to hide in the basement playing Secret of Mana! It was ok to play FFVII in the living room with your friends around. It legitimized storytelling in games for the general public and was the biggest leap forward in technology graphically (same with Mario 64).

FFVII certainly legitimized RPGs in the West. Going from Sony's ridiculous no-RPG policy they had near the beginning of the PS1 era, and having to torture ourselves with Beyond the Beyond, FFVII opened the floodgates for tons of RPGs to come to the West for years, extending to the PS2 that we never would have received otherwise. You guys can deny but I was there, FFVII is at the very least one of the if not the game most responsible for starting the cinematic trend in games that is so prevalent in games today (TLoU, even FPS like Halo).

So, what are all these mainstream JRPGs that the general public appreciates? There Pokemon (which predates FF7), Final Fantasy itself, and . . . ? Hell, even most of the big WRPG franchises like Fallout and Elder scrolls were successful before FF7 came out, so you can't try to attribute the success of, say, Skyrim to FF7.

And the concept that FF7 started the trend of cinematic, story-driven games has been discussed time and time again in this thread. I suggest you read it.

I really don't see it. Compared to how CoD homogenized the whole industry and overreaching genres, these two games hardly matter. Even for their respective times, Quake's influence can be seen far more clearly.

You would have a hard time arguing that Quake was important in the console space than Mario 64. In fact, I would argue that Quake's importance is less related to Quake itself than the modding community.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
If Mario 64's controls were nothing more than a natural progression, then Final Fantasy having a story and good graphics is also nothing more than a natural progression.
 

xevis

Banned
FFVII certainly legitimized RPGs in the West.

This rings truest for me. It certainly didn't have the genre-crossing influence of something like Mario 64 but it did make JRPGs the hot new thing for some years.

I remember when FF7 dropped thinking that it looked like a nice game but wasn't some amazing leap compared to PC games of the era. In comparison to its console peers though FF7 looked like it was from the future.
 

xevis

Banned
No, Vectrex had an analog stick 14 years earlier.
And here's a 3D platformer made 6 years before Mario 64. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30T5RQv6rxw
Mario 64 was basically natural progression.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Before Mario 64 third-person 3D games came in only one flavour: fixed-perspective games with tank controls ala Alone in the Dark or Ecstatica.

Mario 64 was the first game to nail 3D controls, 3D platforming, automatic 3D camera controls and 3D level design. It defined its own genre and it also became the standard point of reference for how to make 3D games across the entire industry
 

xevis

Banned
JRPGs like . . . ?

I was a PC gamer from ~1996-2002 so I can only speak in generalities. I recall prior to FF7 JRPGs didn't do much in the west. They were hard to find, especially here in Australia. After FF7 though we definitely started seeing them much more often and much more prominently featured.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
I was a PC gamer from ~1996-2002 so I can only speak in generalities. I recall prior to FF7 JRPGs didn't do much in the west. They were hard to find, especially here in Australia. After FF7 though we definitely started seeing them much more often and much more prominently featured.

I don't think anybody is disputing that FF7 played a major role in popularizing jrpgs in the West. The dispute is that this was more of an impact on the industry than nailing 3D movement, 3D camera systems, and open world gameplay in a way that is still the gold standard across genres to this day.

Without FF7 we don't get a bunch of niche jrpgs localized in the West. Without Mario 64 we don't get GTA III. That's the difference.
 

Kodiak

Not an asshole.
I don't know. FFVII, VIII and IX came out when I was a kid. They captivated me more than any other games I had ever played. (Also Chrono Cross.) I had watched my brother play Chrono Trigger and Earthbound when I was younger, but they didn't grab me. I was too young, and I thought they were boring.

But FFVII hit me at just the right time. They sucked me in so hard. The world, the story, the characters. I was too young to know the writing was bad, or Barret was racist or you know... whatever the games get criticized for in retrospect.

It was better than a movie or a comic book or a book, because you got to inhabit the world and the characters yourself. I remember how mind-blowing the settings were to me and they left a huge imprint on me. I would spend all day at school drawing the characters.

FFIX was by far the best to me. Just the world was so incredible and rich.

But now you just don't see games like that anymore. These big productions with imaginative world-building. Every single screen is a unique piece of art. Just the sheer amount of effort put into bringing the world to life you don't really see anymore in the same way.

Like GTA V has a ton of detail in the world... but its just a parody of the real world. Idk, its hard to define exactly what is missing from games today, but they seriously don't make them like that PSX era anymore.

Like someone putting a ton of effort to design some random NPC's house in Lindblum with like... this cool looking attic and little animated bits and bobs. My friend who is an environment artist was watching me play, and he was just in awe. Like in awe of how much custom art was on each screen and he was like "My studio would never spend resources on something off to the side like that"

and he works at a major studio that is praised for its art.

It's weird, one of the closest things to this feeling I've seen recently was Gravity Rush. The game is kinda barren and repetitive at times, but it hints at what a modern day Final Fantasy type game would be like. The start has some really cool world building moments, and the way the story is presented is really cool.

All that said, I think Mario 64 was a much more important game. Coming from my perspective now and what I value in game design, it's much more of a valuable game.

1. The game feel is incredible. Games don't put enough effort into game feel these days. The way it feels to control the character, to jump, whatever. It was perfect.

2. Abstract level design. Another thing Nintendo does really well is not pretend their games aren't games. They aren't trying to suspend your disbelief like the Order or whatever. It's left completely bonkers and abstract, and it doesn't bother you one bit because it has no self-established rules to break. Games need to stop being embarrassed that they are games. Again, the Order, I'm looking at you.

3. Intuitive, immersive game structure. How brilliant is the castle? So brilliant. It's an organic tutorial. It's a playground. It's a menu. It's a place to explore. This was so ahead of its time. You literally select a level by using the game's core mechanic, rather than using a boring old menu.

4. It's a god damn video game. I'm sick of games not embracing that they are video games. Like assassin's creed getting fucking bloated with lore no one cares about and doing very little to fix the core gameplay. I remember how much of a step backwards AC1 felt from Prince of Persia because the controls were less fun and less expressive... but it became a massive hit and it tells ubisoft that simpler is better.

Whatever.
 

Wiktor

Member
You have no idea what you're talking about. Before Mario 64 third-person 3D games came in only one flavour: fixed-perspective games with tank controls ala Alone in the Dark or Ecstatica.
y

That's completely untrue. Mario 64 revolutionized this genre, but to say nobody did fluid 3D TPP before is simply false. We had stuff like Fade to Black, Seal Team, Die Hard (DOS version) or Virtuoso. Especially when so many modern TPSes follow those older games's style instead of Mario64's one.
 
I was a PC gamer from ~1996-2002 so I can only speak in generalities. I recall prior to FF7 JRPGs didn't do much in the west. They were hard to find, especially here in Australia. After FF7 though we definitely started seeing them much more often and much more prominently featured.

It's true that it made them more popular, but not by much. JRPGs are still niche, with the exceptions of Pokemon and FF itself.
 

Mael

Member
And it's not like almost every Squaresoft RPG wasn't being localized before FF7 anyway.

Well Rudra no Hihoo... and if you lived in Europe good luck getting stuffs like Treasure Hunter G for example (you know the game from the guys who made Ygdra Union, Knight in the Nightmare or Riviera)...
Well it's not like Europe got stuffs like Saga Frontier I anyway.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
To be fair, the guy is from Australia. It might have been different over there.

Very true.

Well Rudra no Hihoo... and if you lived in Europe good luck getting stuffs like Treasure Hunter G for example (you know the game from the guys who made Ygdra Union, Knight in the Nightmare or Riviera)...
Well it's not like Europe got stuffs like Saga Frontier I anyway.

How much did these games sell in the West, after FF7 popularized them?
 

Mael

Member
How much did these games sell in the West, after FF7 popularized them?

Shit would be a pretty good description.
Something like Saga from Squaresoft went from instant million seller on the SNES to barely 400k in Japan by the time they stopped making them.
They released 2 in PAL land and something like 4 in the US.
Yeah.
 
FF VII.

Mario was just improving on existing stuff, but the storytelling and cinematics of VII shaped the industry
Urge to avatar quote aside, you could say the same thing about FF7 if you want to be reductive. FF6 was very cinematic for its time. Resident Evil came out a year before FF7 using the same 3D model over pre-rendered backgrounds technique + FMVs and the full 3D Metal Gear Solid was well into development in 97. Cinematic gaming was improving regardless of FF7
 

Mael

Member
Urge to avatar quote aside, you could say the same thing about FF7 if you want to be reductive. FF6 was very cinematic for its time. Resident Evil came out a year before FF7 using the same 3D model over pre-rendered backgrounds technique + FMVs and the full 3D Metal Gear Solid was well into development in 97. Cinematic gaming was improving regardless of FF7

RE1 was way more advanced than FFVII, I mean RE1's 3D models had textures to them and weren't primitive flat shaded models.
 

flak57

Member
That's completely untrue. Mario 64 revolutionized this genre, but to say nobody did fluid 3D TPP before is simply false. We had stuff like Fade to Black, Seal Team, Die Hard (DOS version) or Virtuoso. Especially when so many modern TPSes follow those older games's style instead of Mario64's one.

Also we talked about Virtual On in reference to OOT earlier, but it also came out in arcades in 1995, well before SM64 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbgtFz06YAQ
 
Crash Bandicoot only mimicked the Indiana Jones corridor thing with a camera on rails.
Super Mario 64 released before Crash in Japan anyway and was shown as early as Shoshinkai 1995.
Yep, there was no free camera. But it was a 3D platform game that had camera-relative controls as well, rather than player-relative controls.

Urge to avatar quote aside, you could say the same thing about FF7 if you want to be reductive. FF6 was very cinematic for its time. Resident Evil came out a year before FF7 using the same 3D model over pre-rendered backgrounds technique + FMVs and the full 3D Metal Gear Solid was well into development in 97. Cinematic gaming was improving regardless of FF7
You could say the same about character navigation and camera controls regardless of mario 64. :p
I don't see what's 'cinematic' about the techniques FF6 used for story telling. It was 'basic text balloon - press X'
FFVII was a behemoth, it launched on 3 discs with hours of CGI cutscenes. I believe it was also the first RPG to have close-ups and dynamic camera movement during battles.

You could say FFVII is one of the first videogames that had the ambition to give the player a hollywood/blockbuster AAA experience, which became the norm for console releases in the gaming industry. You could say Mario defined how modern games are played while FFVII defined how modern games are served.
 

xevis

Banned
That's completely untrue. Mario 64 revolutionized this genre, but to say nobody did fluid 3D TPP before is simply false. We had stuff like Fade to Black, Seal Team, Die Hard (DOS version) or Virtuoso. Especially when so many modern TPSes follow those older games's style instead of Mario64's one.

I didn't claim there were no third person games before Mario 64; I said "Before Mario 64 third-person 3D games came in only one flavour: fixed-perspective games with tank controls". BTW, here is what the games you mentioned look like:

Die Hard on DOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPnf7JkOkI

Fade to Black:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lSCQLgWqM

Virtuoso:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeQnCbL95rU

All of them are fixed perspective + tank controls. Just as I said. They're also corridor walkers in the vein of Doom, not open-world platformers like Mario 64. So anyway, let me be as emphatic and clear as I can: I never claimed Mario 64 invented 3D. I said it revolutionised the way the industry makes 3D games. Which it did.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Also we talked about Virtual On in reference to OOT earlier, but it also came out in arcades in 1995, well before SM64 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbgtFz06YAQ

Definitely a precursor to the systems that Mario 64 put in place, but still very primitive in comparison. It really appears to have missed the fully independently controlled camera, which was the major difference maker from Mario 64. Your comment about Zelda and Z-Targeting from a couple pages back applies well here, too: "I think the industry was pushing and prodding, and [Mario 64] comes along and takes a bulldozer to the wall."

I didn't claim there were no third person games before Mario 64; I said "Before Mario 64 third-person 3D games came in only one flavour: fixed-perspective games with tank controls". BTW, here is what the games you mentioned look like:

Die Hard on DOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPnf7JkOkI

Fade to Black:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lSCQLgWqM

Virtuoso:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeQnCbL95rU

All of them are fixed perspective + tank controls. Just as I said. They're also corridor walkers in the vein of Doom, not open-world platformers like Mario 64. So anyway, let me be as emphatic and clear as I can: I never claimed Mario 64 invented 3D. I said it revolutionised the way the industry makes 3D games. Which it did.

This. These examples show that before Mario 64, the standard way of handling 3D third person games was to treat them like Mode 7 with polygons. In these games, you don't so much control the character as you rotate the world around them, and then press forward to have the world pass underneath them. Sometimes you can even strafe. Mario 64 allowed you to run in circles completely independently of the camera, and at the same time you were running these circles you could rotate the camera as well. This was a massive advancement, and the fact that 3D movement and camera systems have only been refined from that point rather than truly innovated is very telling. Grand Theft Auto V, released last year to thunderous relevancy, still controls in the non-driving/shooting sections in the same basic way as Mario 64.
 

Wiktor

Member
Die Hard on DOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPnf7JkOkI

Fade to Black:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lSCQLgWqM

Virtuoso:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeQnCbL95rU

All of them are fixed perspective + tank controls. Just as I said. They're also corridor walkers in the vein of Doom, not open-world platformers like Mario 64. So anyway, let me be as emphatic and clear as I can: I never claimed Mario 64 invented 3D. I said it revolutionised the way the industry makes 3D games. Which it did.
You used examples of AitD Ecstatica, which are what most people consider tanks with fixed persective. While those games control more like modern FPSes. But ok, I guess I mistunderstood you.

And yes..Mario 64 revolutionize 3D TPP games, but it is a bit ironic, how nowadays a lot of TPP games have abandoned Mario64's solutions and went back to the so called "tank controls and fixed perspectives". I guess it's an effect of PC devs influence spreading? One way or another, it's definitly more influential mechanically than FFVII
 
Definitely a precursor to the systems that Mario 64 put in place, but still very primitive in comparison. It really appears to have missed the fully independently controlled camera, which was the major difference maker from Mario 64. Your comment about Zelda and Z-Targeting from a couple pages back applies well here, too: "I think the industry was pushing and prodding, and [Mario 64] comes along and takes a bulldozer to the wall."
Well, controlling the camera in mario 64 with those 4 tiny C-button felt primitive as well.
That second analog stick couldn't come fast enough.

Also, Virtual-On didn't need an independently controlled camera because it featured 1-on-1 battles in unexplorable environments.

And yes..Mario 64 revolutionize 3D TPP games, but it is a bit ironic, how nowadays a lot of TPP games have abandoned Mario64's solutions and went back to the so called "tank controls and fixed perspectives". I guess it's an effect of PC devs influence spreading
Uhm which ones?
 

cerulily

Member
I'm old enough to have been there from the beginning of the NES at the very least (Mario 1, Zelda and Final Fantasy 1 were my first games) . FFVII didn't do anything "new" like the way the Wii brought in motion controls (an new way of playing) or set a standard for controls like Mario 64 did. What FFVII did is push storytelling for consoles forwarded by combining a huge plot with (at the time) amazing visuals and music, into a polished package before unseen that blew everybody at the time away. It showed the naysayers that RPGs weren't just those "dorky games" (not my words, I knew people who hated RPGs) and that it was okay and even cool to enjoy an RPG. No need to hide in the basement playing Secret of Mana! It was ok to play FFVII in the living room with your friends around. It legitimized storytelling in games for the general public and was the biggest leap forward in technology graphically (same with Mario 64).

FFVII certainly legitimized RPGs in the West. Going from Sony's ridiculous no-RPG policy they had near the beginning of the PS1 era, and having to torture ourselves with Beyond the Beyond, FFVII opened the floodgates for tons of RPGs to come to the West for years, extending to the PS2 that we never would have received otherwise. You guys can deny but I was there, FFVII is at the very least one of the if not the game most responsible for starting the cinematic trend in games that is so prevalent in games today (TLoU, even FPS like Halo).


I think this is a pretty big point. SNES had some great JRPG's, but it is quite clear that FF7 was the trojan horse that made JRPG's a household staple of gaming.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
M°°nblade;149809829 said:
Well, controlling the camera in mario 64 with those 4 tiny C-button felt primitive as well.
That second analog stick couldn't come fast enough.

Also, Virtual-On didn't need an independently controlled camera because it featured 1-on-1 battles in unexplorable environments.

All true. To the first point, the switch from using buttons to another analog stick was a great refinement of Mario 64's systems, but it was just that: a refinement. It wasn't an innovation like having independent camera control in the first place. To the second, you're right too, and earlier in the thread I said that it reminded me of a 3D fighting game's systems more than a third person 3D action/platformer game's systems. That kind of points to it not really being in the same wheelhouse as the controls that Mario 64 introduced. It definitely has to do with Z-Targeting, though.

In its defense, virtua on wouldnt benefit from a free-camera

Agreed, I'm just pointing out that it didn't innovate in the same way that Mario 64 did, nor was it necessarily trying to. From looking at videos though, the camera system definitely could have used some refinement.

...a lot of TPP games have abandoned Mario64's solutions and went back to the so called "tank controls and fixed perspectives".

I only really see that as being true in third person action games where you have a gun and pressing "aim" puts you into third person shooter mode while the button is held down. Beyond Z-Targeting, that's really the only way to handle precision shooting mechanics in a third person action game. When you're not aiming the gun, games like GTA, Uncharted, and The Last of Us still control like heavily refined Mario 64s. And heck, even Zelda games turn into first person shooters when you take out a projectile weapon. So if anything, these games are even moreso cut from the Mario 64/Ocarina of Time cloth.
 

andymcc

Banned
Definitely a precursor to the systems that Mario 64 put in place, but still very primitive in comparison. It really appears to have missed the fully independently controlled camera, which was the major difference maker from Mario 64. Your comment about Zelda and Z-Targeting from a couple pages back applies well here, too: "I think the industry was pushing and prodding, and [Mario 64] comes along and takes a bulldozer to the wall."

In its defense, virtual on wouldnt benefit from a free-camera
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Poking around online, I found some backup to Mario 64's influence.

Assassin's Creed IV Director:
"The best reference I can say for this is this is effectively like Mario 64. Think about it. You have the castle, which is the ocean [in ACIV], and you have these portals that take you to these really unique worlds where you can come back to these worlds and do a bunch of things. Do collectibles, find stuff that has value for you." ... "Ashraf noted that Mario 64 was a massive reference and that it's one of his favorite games of all time."

Goldeneye Director:
"The idea for the huge variety of missions within a level came from Super Mario 64"

Rockstar's Dan Houser:
"Anyone who makes 3D games who says they've not borrowed something from Mario or [The Legend of Zelda] [on the Nintendo 64] is lying."

One of the developers of Space Station Silicon Valley, the direct precursor to GTA III:
"I always remember [lead programmer] Leslie and [artist] Aaron Garbut looking at every game they could get on the N64 to see what others were doing, how it worked and so on. When Mario 64 came out, that certainly made us all sit up and take notice."

Some guy named Tetsuya Nomura:
"Well, just as I was working on FFVII, Mario 64 was released. The fully three-dimensional spaces and the freedom you had to run around them had a big impact on me. When I told my colleagues I wanted to make a game like that, they said "but Mario's already a world-famous character. It would be impossible to start from scratch with an all-new character."

Iwata: They didn't think you could compete with Mario?

Nomura: Exactly. Somebody even said "The only way you could do it is with characters that are as well known as Disney's". That really stuck in my head, so when I heard we could be working with Disney characters, I naturally jumped at the chance.

Iwata: So, you put your hand up for this project because of the impact Mario 64 had on you, and because your colleague had mentioned that it would be impossible to create a game like that unless you used Disney characters. You remembered those words, and the rest is history!

Nomura: That's right, yes! (laughs)

Even Kingdom Hearts owes more to Mario 64 than FF7, apparently!
 

Majestad

Banned
Poking around online, I found some backup to Mario 64's influence.

Assassin's Creed IV Director:
"The best reference I can say for this is this is effectively like Mario 64. Think about it. You have the castle, which is the ocean [in ACIV], and you have these portals that take you to these really unique worlds where you can come back to these worlds and do a bunch of things. Do collectibles, find stuff that has value for you." ... "Ashraf noted that Mario 64 was a massive reference and that it's one of his favorite games of all time."

Goldeneye Director:
"The idea for the huge variety of missions within a level came from Super Mario 64"

Rockstar's Dan Houser:
"Anyone who makes 3D games who says they've not borrowed something from Mario or [The Legend of Zelda] [on the Nintendo 64] is lying."

One of the developers of Space Station Silicon Valley, the direct precursor to GTA III:
"I always remember [lead programmer] Leslie and [artist] Aaron Garbut looking at every game they could get on the N64 to see what others were doing, how it worked and so on. When Mario 64 came out, that certainly made us all sit up and take notice."

Some guy named Tetsuya Nomura:
"Well, just as I was working on FFVII, Mario 64 was released. The fully three-dimensional spaces and the freedom you had to run around them had a big impact on me. When I told my colleagues I wanted to make a game like that, they said "but Mario's already a world-famous character. It would be impossible to start from scratch with an all-new character."

Iwata: They didn't think you could compete with Mario?

Nomura: Exactly. Somebody even said "The only way you could do it is with characters that are as well known as Disney's". That really stuck in my head, so when I heard we could be working with Disney characters, I naturally jumped at the chance.

Iwata: So, you put your hand up for this project because of the impact Mario 64 had on you, and because your colleague had mentioned that it would be impossible to create a game like that unless you used Disney characters. You remembered those words, and the rest is history!

Nomura: That's right, yes! (laughs)

Even Kingdom Hearts owes more to Mario 64 than FF7, apparently!

Done and done. The power duo Zelda OoT / SM64 is unmatched.
 

MrBadger

Member
Some guy named Tetsuya Nomura:
"Well, just as I was working on FFVII, Mario 64 was released. The fully three-dimensional spaces and the freedom you had to run around them had a big impact on me. When I told my colleagues I wanted to make a game like that, they said "but Mario's already a world-famous character. It would be impossible to start from scratch with an all-new character."

Well, I guess that's that
 

Mael

Member
Some guy named Tetsuya Nomura:
"Well, just as I was working on FFVII, Mario 64 was released. The fully three-dimensional spaces and the freedom you had to run around them had a big impact on me. When I told my colleagues I wanted to make a game like that, they said "but Mario's already a world-famous character. It would be impossible to start from scratch with an all-new character."

Iwata: They didn't think you could compete with Mario?

Nomura: Exactly. Somebody even said "The only way you could do it is with characters that are as well known as Disney's". That really stuck in my head, so when I heard we could be working with Disney characters, I naturally jumped at the chance.

Iwata: So, you put your hand up for this project because of the impact Mario 64 had on you, and because your colleague had mentioned that it would be impossible to create a game like that unless you used Disney characters. You remembered those words, and the rest is history!

Nomura: That's right, yes! (laughs)

Even Kingdom Hearts owes more to Mario 64 than FF7, apparently!

Holy crap this I didn't know!
I guess it's Kingdom Hearts 3D Iwata's ask?
 

Ifrit

Member
Some guy named Tetsuya Nomura:
"Well, just as I was working on FFVII, Mario 64 was released. The fully three-dimensional spaces and the freedom you had to run around them had a big impact on me. When I told my colleagues I wanted to make a game like that, they said "but Mario's already a world-famous character. It would be impossible to start from scratch with an all-new character."

Iwata: They didn't think you could compete with Mario?

Nomura: Exactly. Somebody even said "The only way you could do it is with characters that are as well known as Disney's". That really stuck in my head, so when I heard we could be working with Disney characters, I naturally jumped at the chance.

Iwata: So, you put your hand up for this project because of the impact Mario 64 had on you, and because your colleague had mentioned that it would be impossible to create a game like that unless you used Disney characters. You remembered those words, and the rest is history!

Nomura: That's right, yes! (laughs)

Even Kingdom Hearts owes more to Mario 64 than FF7, apparently!

That's it, nothing more to say I guess
 
Yes, one guy at Square was influenced by Mario 64, case closed...

It's strange how you guys can't debate in favor of a game without resorting to bashing the other. Both were extremely influential. No need to berate one or the other.
 

Gestault

Member
Yes, one guy at Square was influenced by Mario 64, case closed...

It's strange how you guys can't debate in favor of a game without resorting to bashing the other. Both were extremely influential. No need to berate one or the other.

I mostly saw descriptions of specific mechanics/game structure brought on by the work in Mario 64. Followed by a list of quotes from prominent game developers, all elaborating on the influence from Mario 64 on their own work, including the major creative personality at the company behind the Final Fantasy series. I didn't see too much "bashing each other."
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Tetsuya Nomura can be described in many ways, both positive and negative, but I have never heard him described as just some guy at Square.

If Tetsuya Nomura is just some guy, then I guess Final Fantasy 7 really didn't have much impact on the industry.
 

Mael

Member
Yes, one guy at Square was influenced by Mario 64, case closed...

It's strange how you guys can't debate in favor of a game without resorting to bashing the other. Both were extremely influential. No need to berate one or the other.

Yep just one guy who did nothing of note and went on to make more FFVII type games...
Like Kingdom Hearts...
Or Final Fantasy VII : Crisis Core that uses a control system closer to SM64 than it's structure is close to FFVII.
 

Frillen

Member
Yes, one guy at Square was influenced by Mario 64, case closed...

It's strange how you guys can't debate in favor of a game without resorting to bashing the other. Both were extremely influential. No need to berate one or the other.

I see no one bashing FFVII, the only thing I see are facts, same facts that you clearly can't handle. Take it like a man, otherwise you'll look stupid.
 
I see no one bashing FFVII, the only thing I see are facts, same facts that you clearly can't handle. Take it like a man, otherwise you'll look stupid.

I chose to quote you, because this is the type of person I'm mostly talking about. Can't make a point without looking for a way to insult at the same time.

I wasn't talking about the quotes the user above posted. That was good info in favor of his stance, just not debate ending good as some took it. That's all I was saying in that sentence.

The other sentence, well you just need to look at the whole thread as I have, to see the supporters of which game is most inclined to trivialize the impact the other game had. I haven't even stated in this thread which game I think was more influential.
 

y2dvd

Member
Calamari shutting it down. I don't even know why this is debatable. Both were great games but Mario 64 was a gaming revolution.
 
We see more FFVII influence nowadays: cinematic games, emotional stories, character development, symphonic soundtracks, cutscenes (now done in real time), epic bosses.

On the other hand, 3d platformers is a genre practically dead, only nintendo does it (but the stage design is different. Mario 3d World feels more like a 2.5D game)

Both are excellent games on their own right, but the FFVII impact nowadays is bigger, and clear to see.
 

Mael

Member
I chose to quote you, because this is the type of person I'm mostly talking about. Can't make a point without looking for a way to insult at the same time.

I wasn't talking about the quotes the user above posted. That was good info in favor of his stance, just not debate ending good as some took it. That's all I was saying in that sentence.

The other sentence, well you just need to look at the whole thread as I have, to see the supporters of which game is most inclined to trivialize the impact the other game had. I haven't even stated in this thread which game I think was more influential.

Well it IS debate ending in a way, I mean we have direct quotes over the years of various prominent directors praising to this day the impact SM64 had on 1 side and a vague quote from Kojima on the other.
On top of that we have zero evidence of the impact of FFVII on Western devs at all.

symphonic soundtracks,

That's right there is the sure sign someone doesn't know what he's talking about regarding FFVII.
 

Frillen

Member
We see more FFVII influence nowadays: cinematic games, emotional stories, character development, symphonic soundtracks, cutscenes (now done in real time), epic bosses.

On the other hand, 3d platformers is a genre practically dead, only nintendo does it (but the stage design is different. Mario 3d World feels more like a 2.5D game)

Both are excellent games on their own right, but the FFVII impact nowadays is bigger, and clear to see.

Clearly you haven't read the thread, if you had you would learn that Mario 64 has influenced a whole lot more than platformers.

Also, you can thank MGS more than FFVII when it comes to the bullets point you had about FFVII. And lol at epic bosses. Have you actually played any games before the N64/PSone generation?
 
Clearly you haven't read the thread, if you had you would learn that Mario 64 has influenced a whole lot more than platformers.

Also, you can thank MGS more than FFVII when it comes to the bullets point you had about FFVII. And lol at epic bosses. Have you actually played any games before the N64/PSone generation?
I'm starting to see a patern...
 
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