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Mario 64 and FF7; two revolutionary games, which shaped/impacted the industry more?

E

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
I've been gaming since the beginning of the NES. The biggest leap forward that games have taken imo is going from the 16-bit (SNES, Genesis) era to the 32-bit/64-bit (Playstation, Saturn, N64) era. It was the awkward leap from 2D to 3D, a "growing pains" time for games. Some series didn't translate over too well (Bubsy), others did (Zelda).

Mario 64 and FF7 are still the two games that in my mind pushed the medium forward more than any other game had done before, or since. They are landmarks in game evolution and design and kicked off a new era for the industry. Which one had a bigger impact though?

Arguments for Mario 64:
-We went from 2D control to full, precise, effortless 3D controls. These controls were so well done Nintendo/other developers have not improved upon them since as they absolutely nailed it, instead they've tried to innovate in other way such as motion controls
-Massive (at the time) and interactive 3D environments like nothing seen before
-Clean, impressive, fully 3D graphics with a fully controllable camera
-became the blueprint for many 3D platformers and adventure games to follow

Arguments for FF7:
-went from 2D sprites and tile backgrounds to 3D characters and impressive, artistic and highly detailed pre-rendered backgrounds
-basically ushered in FMV storytelling during key scenes. FF7 is responsible in large part for the cinematic storytelling road the industry has traveled down for AAA games since
-the music made a similar leap, with a huge, sweeping orchestral soundtrack
-became the blueprint for RPGs and cinematic story focused games to follow

Both are revolutionary, and arguably beloved classics. This one is really close for me but I personally have to give the slight edge to Final Fantasy 7. As I'm a huge fan of visual storytelling and it's my main draw to this hobby, FF7 had a bigger impact on the games that I play.

What are your thoughts?
 
B

baconcow

Member
Super Mario 64. Love them both, but this is no contest. SM64 brought a 3D world, tight controls, and brught on a new revolution of 3D platforming. FF7 expanded on the FF formula, and did a good job, but it wasn't as revolutionary.
 
G

Gsnap

Member
Considering what games today sell the most and get the best reviews, and the types of games that developers are mostly making?

FF7

(At the time of release the case could be made for Mario 64, and the impact it had, but considering where the industry went after that, it's FF7)

But the actual answer is GTA3
 
G

Gonzo The Great

Banned
Final Fantasy VII had a bigger impact on the industry, even though Super Mario 64 is a far better game. Publishers of today care about cinematics more than gameplay.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
FF7 possibly had the greatest impact not in terms of what it did to RPGs but what it did for "spectacle". It was even sold / marketed based on CG cut scenes and not gameplay. That it was a great success helped usher in a new emphasis on production values for PS1 games and from there the console industry in general.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Mario 64 basically revolutionized true 3D with full 360-degree camera control, in a way where it controlled elegantly like a seamless extension of the mind.
 
J

Jotamide

Unconfirmed Member
Mario 64. Had it bombed, Nintendo probably wouldn't be here today.
 
E

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
Kai Dracon said:
FF7 possibly had the greatest impact not in terms of what it did to RPGs but what it did for "spectacle". It was even sold / marketed based on CG cut scenes and not gameplay. That it was a great success helped usher in a new emphasis on production values for PS1 games and from there the console industry in general.
Click to expand...

I'd even go so far as to say that FF7 won the console wars for Sony. Since Nintendo went with cartridges Square defected to Sony because of the storage space of CD-roms. Those cutscenes were huge.
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
Mario 64 changed platforming forever but FF7 was a cultural phenomenon. You couldn't escape it, and it influenced games (for better or worse) just as much as Mario did.
 
S

SonicKnights

Member
RPG's were around before FFVII. They were good but not on the scale of FF. It advanced the genre way ahead of where it was at.
But Mario 64 created this new genre we haven't experience before. It was fun and still is to this day.FFVII was enjoyable in its day, but not today.

Mario64 easily
 
I

IceIpor

Member
I'm going to say Mario 64... Just because more games are using in-game cutscenes these days and Mario was the beginning of it?
 
Duane Cunningham

Duane Cunningham

Member
Super Mario 64. No question.

FF7, as cool as it was, was evolutionary. Gameplay wise, it was very similar to its immediate predecessor, FF6. Cinematic cut scenes go all the way back to hell, Ninja Gaiden NES. Yes, they were much prettier on FF7 because it was on the PSX and it had that generation's capabilities, but that method of storytelling within a game was nothing new. Same with the soundtrack. I'd argue that FF4 and FF6 were better outings for Uematsu. They were performed with better midi instruments in FF7, sure, but the creative output wasn't new or better. I liked FF7, but for those of us who had already been playing JRPGs in the previous generations, it was just a prettier package.

SM64 was revolutionary. There had literally never been anything like it before. A few things like Jumping Flash (and FPS's in a way) kind of gave us a bit of a harbinger of what was to come, but to play Mario 64 for the first time was to know you were playing something completely 100% brand new. That happens so rarely. And its influence has been felt in everything since.

I like FF7, but.. no contest.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
FF VII shaped JRPGs (the ones that would follow, I mean), and cinematic story telling in games to an extent (FMVs).

Super Mario 64 shaped 3D games.

Mario 64 wins.
 
C

CoolBatteryCharge

Member
Mario 64 with the bigger impact, but Final Fantasy VII with the longer tail end. I feel like Mario 64's additions to gaming are way more important, but have long been "perfected" many times over. The cinematic storytelling of Final Fantasy VII is something many big budget games are still trying to chase after.
 
B

butalala

Member
I think it's a little bit of column a and a little bit of column b...

FF7 for story, drama and cinematic presentation.

Mario 64 for freedom, action and controls.

Both games are great, and If I had both in front of me right now... I'd take turns playing each
but i'd start with Mario.
 
W

Wolf Akela

Member
FFVII. It served as a catalyst for the industry's love for cinematics.

Platformers aren't exactly huge today, or even last gen even if SMG was awesome.
 
H

Hades Hotgun

Banned
I feel like their impacts are equally meaningless at this point.

JRPGs along the lines of FF7 are gone and so are 3D platformers like Mario 64. They were both influential through the PS2/GC/XB era, but in the past generation their respective genres withered and games like those two in particular are basically no longer made.
 
R

Rival

Gold Member
It would be short sighted to proclaim either game more revolutionary than the other. Each impacted the way games are made in their own way and I love both of them.
 
E

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
Duane Cunningham said:
Super Mario 64. No question.

FF7, as cool as it was, was evolutionary. Gameplay wise, it was very similar to its immediate predecessor, FF6. Cinematic cut scenes go all the way back to hell, Ninja Gaiden NES. Yes, they were much prettier on FF7 because it was on the PSX and it had that generation's capabilities, but that method of storytelling within a game was nothing new. Same with the soundtrack. I'd argue that FF4 and FF6 were better outings for Uematsu. They were performed with better midi instruments in FF7, sure, but the creative output wasn't new or better. I liked FF7, but for those of us who had already been playing JRPGs in the previous generations, it was just a prettier package.

SM64 was revolutionary. There had literally never been anything like it before. A few things like Jumping Flash (and FPS's in a way) kind of gave us a bit of a harbinger of what was to come, but to play Mario 64 for the first time was to know you were playing something completely 100% brand new. That happens so rarely. And its influence has been felt in everything since.

I like FF7, but.. no contest.
Click to expand...

A great argument. But I feel like FF7's impact is still felt in games being made now, where as Mario 64's impact kind of lessened during the PS2/Gamecube days. Square (before it's dark Enix days) managed to build upon FF7's advancements but Nintendo still hasn't best Mario 64 (they've matched it for sure with Galaxy/3D World)
 
Nameless

Nameless

Member
When you say shaped/impacted the industry, the answer has to be FFVII; it won the generation for PS1 and propelled Sony into an industry juggernaut.
 
J

jblank83

Member
I disagree greatly with the claimed influence of FF 7 or that it was revolutionary. Most of the proposed claims to influence (cinematics, soundtrack) were well documented in previous video games, especially PC CD Rom games released well before Playstation was on the market. Some of those games were extremely popular as well, avoiding any argument of "well FF7 was the first biggest". Chief among these are titles like Myst, released many years before FF 7.

The rest of its design is simply reiterated from previous titles in the series, which themselves were popular (e.g. FF VI selling several million copies). Its main claim to fame, then, is that it sold a lot in Western territories (backed by Sony with what is still one of the largest advertising / trade-in campaigns in video game history; after which, without said advertising, the series has steadily declined in sales).

Nor did its design dominate the landscape as did games like Quake with FPS titles (or Super Mario 64 with 3rd person 3d games), to the point that everything resembles that ancestor. We see little that resembles classic FF (or even modern FF) in today's market. Instead we see RPGs (eastern and western) more akin to other popular franchises. I would argue that Ultima and Wizardry and other franchises show more influence in today's RPG market than does Final Fantasy.

Meanwhile, Super Mario 64 truly was a revolution in 3d game design, evident from the designs of games before it and the designs of games after it. The basics laid down in Super Mario 64 are still being utilized today, whereas FF 7 was FF in 3d, its influence little more than fond memories amongst its fans.


As to this thread, highly unique and well carbonated. Will definitely hit 20 pages of replies. Many congratulations to everyone.
 
K

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
Wolf Akela said:
FFVII. It served as a catalyst for the industry's love for cinematics.

Platformers aren't exactly huge today, or even last gen even if SMG was awesome.
Click to expand...
But it's not just platformers. Mario 64 was the game that ushered in analog movement in 3D games. Pretty much every single 3D game is built with analog sticks in mind, till this day.
 
N

Noobcraft

Member
Super Mario 64 had a pretty awesome hub world so to speak. That and the controls and level design are still excellent today. I'd say Mario 64 has more features utilized in modern games than FF7.
 
I

Ishan

Junior Member
just from a game perspective mario from an whole industry perspective ff7 (sony emegence/cd adoption etc etc)
 
A

AlphaTwo00

Member
Gsnap said:
But the actual answer is GTA3
Click to expand...
Mario 64 was one of the games heavily referenced in Space Station Silicon Valley, which was a major influence to GTA3.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JohnSzczepaniak/20130605/193654/Unusual_Evolution__Developing_Space_Station_Silicon_Valley.php

Besides being a fine accomplishment in itself, SSSV also represents the difficult shift into 3D that developers experienced in the mid-1990s and, even more significantly, was an influence on Grand Theft Auto III and the entries that followed.
Click to expand...

As supported by Leyden, the team also looked at N64 games by rival developers, since although development started in September 1995, the game wouldn't see release until October 1998: "The lead artist Jamie did a great job on the art and it had a very distinctive 'British' humor to it, which set it apart from a lot of other games. I always remember [lead programmer] Leslie and [artist] Aaron Garbut looking at every game they could get on the N64 to see what others were doing, how it worked and so on. When Mario 64 came out, that certainly made us all sit up and take notice."
Click to expand...

Frankly, the amount of lessons across almost all genres in 3D can attribute many of the lessons from Mario 64.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
Hades Hotgun said:
I feel like their impacts are equally meaningless at this point.

JRPGs along the lines of FF7 are gone and so are 3D platformers like Mario 64. They were both influential through the PS2/GC/XB era, but in the past generation their respective genres withered and games like those two in particular are basically no longer made.
Click to expand...

You are insane. FF7's push towards story telling and the 'cinematic' nonsense (Im not the biggest fan) can clearly be seen in an evolved form in todays gaming. In stuff like TLOU, Uncharted, and countless other franchises, where the evolution of Mario 64 can be seen also. Large explorable 3D areas, analog control for the primary character and more.

These two games influenced far more than just JRPGs and Platformers. They influenced many genres and game types in many different ways. Its nigh impossible to say which had more impact because of that.
 
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