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[Alex_Mexico]

People underestimate how much the selling of Rare affected Nintendo's chances in the Americas. Think about it. Rare was THE biggest provider of exclusives outside of Nintendo themselves during the N64 days. Said console was the bigger success in NA and Rare games sold millions and millions of copies here. Out goes the GC, they sell the goddamn company to Microsoft, and lose in third place even to the new kid the Xbox!

I'm sure Nintendo had their reasons and maybe they were right with selling Rare the problem is they never had another company filling the colossal void Rare left! The GC was already hurting for exclusives as it was! And what happened? Without runaway successes GC-only games like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Diddy Kong Racing (shut up, it sold tons) the GC remains the worst selling Nintendo console ever made and the WiiU looks to be performing even worse. The Wii was a lightning in a bottle anomaly that won't happen again.

Nintendo selling Rare is something Id like to understand but the fact is they never bothered filling that huge hole they left. Couple that with the neutering of NoA and you have the most Japan-centric and Japan-dependant Nintendo ever performing worse and worse with its home consoles since the SNES all the way to the WiiU in a very noticeable and consistent downward slope (again, with the exception that the Wii was. The WiiU continues the downward spiral where the GC left off).

Yes Rare is crap now with MS but that's now. Who's to say what it could've been had they remained with Nintendo.

TL;DR the Big N lacks enough and compelling exclusives that capture people's imaginations like they used to do so much. They sold their most prolific second party developer and have failed to fill the void Rare left.

What does GAF think of the whole Nintendo selling Rare deal? Why did it happen in the first place coming from years of humongous successes on the N64?

Star Fox Adventures was great too, shut up. Even with the SF shoehorn.

PS: I'm still salty as fuck I never got Perfect Dark Zero for my GC. It couldn't have been worse than the horrible 360 launch game we ended up with.

 

[MilitanT07]

For crying out loud.

 

[Phediuk]

People underestimate how much the selling of Rare affected Nintendo's chances in the Americas.

Since when? I think everyone agrees that the loss of Western support in the Gamecube era hurt Nintendo greatly.

 

[Broritos]

Let it go brah.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Wasn't it because Microsoft ended up buying the majority share of the company and Nintendo didn't wanna bother with that co-owning mess so they sold their 49% share?

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

[Kriken]

Nintendo never owned Rare, Microsoft just bought Rare outright

Edit: Okay, they owned 49% of Rare at one point, my mistake

 

[-MD-]

It couldn't have been worse than the horrible 360 launch game we ended up with.

Boo, PDZ's multiplayer was great.

 

[CalamityPixel]

"Yes Rare is crap now with MS"

In your opinion.

 

[Nanashrew]

Rare was in a decline with their output and quality. MS only sped it up through restructuring.

 

[Roto13]

Rare has made a lot of garbage since before they left Nintendo. It's no big loss.

 

[Ouren]

Microsoft only bought the IP, most the the talent had left already

 

[Escalario]

Thanks to Nintendo selling Rare after good part of the talent went away to make their own company, we got Metroid Prime. It was a win-win for Nintendo.

 

[Broken Joystick]

Wasn't it because Microsoft ended up buying the majority share of the company and Nintendo didn't wanna bother with that co-owning mess so they sold their 49% share?

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Something like that, they didn't just sell Rare to MS.

A lot of the original talent had left by 2003 anyway.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Since when? I think everyone agrees that the loss of Western support in the Gamecube era hurt Nintendo greatly.

Well I've repetedly heard here people say "good riddance" when talking about Rare leaving Nintendo based on Rare's output with Microsoft (which has been mediocre to bad). I'm trying to argue Nintendo of America may have done the right decision (although I fail to understand how) as long as they filled the void with other western developers, which they didn't.

Retro Studios is great and all but their Metroid Prime games did nothing to the GC compared to what Rare did to the N64. At least in the Americas.

 

[Chucker]

How would you have felt if the exact same games came out, but Rare stayed with Nintendo?

 

[Yokai]

They never sold rare, they were outbid by Microsoft.

Frankly, rare was seeking better pastures at the time thinking Nintendo was on its way out as a hardware provider. They didn't know what the Wii would have done.

 

[bomblord1]

Retro more than filled the western void.

 

[Cheddahz]

"rare is dead" - neogaf

 

[Alex_Mexico]

How would you have felt if the exact same games came out, but Rare stayed with Nintendo?

We will never know for sure but I can assume stuff would've gone down differently.

 

[CalamityPixel]

Microsoft only bought the IP, most the the talent had left already

Not all.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

And then I looked at their output. Seems to be Nintendo knew which way the wind was blowing, And they acquired Retro when they were little more than a bunch of ex Acclaim guys with bad management. Seems like a prescient business move to me.

 

[RealityPales]

Hurt Rare, hurt Nintendo, hurt gamers.

Lose, lose, lose.

 

[TI82]

Rare isn't dead. Nuts and bolts was a superb game. I wish it had been a new IP but its still great despite not being good as the previous games. If Microsoft released it on PC I would without a doubt buy it again.

 

[Pinko Marx]

And then I looked at their output.

That doesn't seem to be fair. Is their output a function of the loss of talent, or because MS stuck them on kinect?

 

[The Living Tribunal]

 

[Uncle Rupee]

The problem with Rare was they basically made games that were too close to Nintendo's in terms of game play and style. They didn't really compliment Nintendo's line-up so much as copy it. As a result they basically appealed to the same exact market instead of actually expanding it (with the sole exception of Goldeneye 64).

Mario -> Banjo, Conker
Zelda -> SF Adventures, Kameo
Mario Kart -> Diddy Kong Racing, Mickey's Speedway USA
Luigi's Mansion -> Grabbed by the Ghoulies
Wii Sports -> Kinect Rivals
Animal Crossing -> Viva Pinata
Miis -> Avatars

I mean, I would much rather Nintendo partner with various third parties as they are doing now. The problem is they aren't doing enough of these partnerships that result in games like Bayonetta 2 or Wonderful101. They ought to be doing much more of this.

Besides the fact that most of Rare's vets have been scattered to the winds and are no longer working there, I don't think Nintendo had much choice when the Stampers decided to sell the company. They wanted to create a bidding war and make as much money as possible and the price simply exceeded Nintendo's perceived value in the company.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Retro more than filled the western void.

No it didn't. They released two games on the GC only. As good as Prime 1 I think it was it didn't set the world, or the GC, on fire the same way Rare did with the N64. Hell, Prime 2 didn't get to a million in sales on the GC even.

Rare's consistent and relentless output of successes during their heyday makes Retro's pale in comparison.

 

[Metallix87]

Nintendo made a smart business move given that the studio was bleeding talent, and also given the fact that Microsoft had already acquired a majority stake in the company. Nintendo's mistake was not expanding further into the West by acquiring more new Western studios after they sold Rare and bought up Retro.

 

[Roto13]

Well I've repetedly heard here people say "good riddance" when talking about Rare leaving Nintendo based on Rare's output with Microsoft (which has been mediocre to bad). I'm trying to argue Nintendo of America may have done the right decision (although I fail to understand how) as long as they filled the void with other western developers, which they didn't.

Retro Studios is great and all but their Metroid Prime games did nothing to the GC compared to what Rare did to the N64. At least in the Americas.

Having a studio pumping out western-developed games doesn't make any kind of positive difference if they're bad games nobody wants to play.

No it didn't. They released two games on the GC only. As good as Prime 1 I think it was it didn't set the world, or the GC, on fire the same way Rare did with the N64. Hell, Prime 2 didn't get to a million in sales on the GC even.

Rare's consistent and relentless output of successes during their heyday makes Retro's pale in comparison.

Their heyday was over before they left.

 

[Nanashrew]

"rare is dead" - neogaf

Not dead! Just all too common.

 

[Ol No Bones]

This thread. I wonder how many "Rare isnt rare" and "rare is dead" posts are gonna happen.

 

[Cipherr]

Nah, it was the perfect time to let them go. Nothing they did following that buyout by MS would have helped the GC in the west at all.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Nintendo made a smart business move given that the studio was bleeding talent, and also given the fact that Microsoft had already acquired a majority stake in the company. Nintendo's mistake was not expanding further into the West by acquiring more new Western studios after they sold Rare and bought up Retro.

Wait. So you're saying the Rare deal was more like a hostile takeover from Microsoft and then just Nintendo selling the rest of the stock after MS already had the 51% of the company? If true this is the first time I hear about it.

 

[npa189]

This happened 15 years ago, its a fascinating "what if" scenario but there was no way that Nintendo could have outbid Microsoft.

 

[Toxi]

Hell, Prime 2 didn't get to a million in sales on the GC even.

Huh? Metroid Prime 2 sold 1.1 million.

 

[yankeeforever2]

They were forced to sell the founders sold there shares to Microsoft.

 

[moggio]

Nope. It was the right decision at the right time.

Wait. So you're saying the Rare deal was more like a hostile takeover from Microsoft and then just Nintendo selling the rest of the stock after MS already had the 51% of the company? If true this is the first time I hear about it.

The Stampers offered it to Nintendo but they weren't interested.

 

[120v]

there's really no way to tell how things would've panned out if they kept Rare

it probably would've worked out better for both sides, as nintendo could've had a little more software to bear its droughts, and we all know what happened to Rare

 

[Ol No Bones]

Having a studio pumping out western-developed games doesn't make any kind of positive difference if they're bad games nobody wants to play.

Yeah, except rare hasn't made a bad game on Xbox and the only mediocre one was maybe PDZ. Yeah I know Kinect Sports blah blah blah but even as those were Kinect games they were still fun to play and good in a party game setting.

 

[Jigorath]

Not all.

Rare's incredibly successful track record in the N64 era was not the result of one man. I don't think it's a stretch to say that most of the people who made Rare what it was have long since left the company.

 

[Ouren]

Rare's incredibly successful track record in the N64 era was not the result of one man. I don't think it's a stretch to say that most of the people who made Rare what it was have long since left the company.

mhmm

 

[prawnmatic]

It was obvious that the wheels were falling off with the release of DK64. StarFox Adventures was truly uninspired and nothing that they have done since seems to capture the "magic" that everyone is nostalgic for. TimeSplitters 2 is the last "Rare" game I feel I played, and I doubt Kinect Sports, Nuts & Bolts or Viva Pinata would have made a serious impact on Nintendo hardware sales.

If they've got the talent and the vision they should relaunch/revamp the Rare brand and let their games speak for themselves, rather than alluding to a sense of (rose-tinted) nostalgia that inevitably leaves people disappointed.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Thanks to Nintendo selling Rare after good part of the talent went away to make their own company, we got Metroid Prime. It was a win-win for Nintendo.

Rare, a British company, was sold in 2002. Metroid Prime 1 released in 2002 as well, from a Texan company, after years of development. I'm not so sure there's a lot of direct correlation between Rare being sold and Metroid Prime happening.

 

[Gurgelhals]

Considering the piece of shit that was Starfox Adventures I'd say that they made the right call in selling off their stake in Rare.

Of course they could have tried to pull off a Retro Studios by bringing in their own people and trying to get the company back on track. However, this would probably have been far too expensive and risky in the case of Rare (compared to the rather small company that was Retro at the time). Furthermore, Nintendo only had a 49% stake in the company and the Stampers wanted to sell their 51%. So Nintendo would have had to buy the Stamper's share beforehand (and probably at an inflated price as well).

That doesn't mean, however, that I don't think Nintendo couldn't have done a better job in forming productive long term relationships with selected Western delevopment studios during the past 10-15 years. This strategy has worked out so well for them in Japan and I think it's a shame Nintendo didn't put in a similiar effort in the West. But that's insular Nintendo for you, I guess.

 

[ScOULaris]

Rare's incredibly successful track record in the N64 era was not the result of one man. I don't think it's a stretch to say that most of the people who made Rare what it was have long since left the company.

Not a stretch at all. It's a fact. Nobody responsible for the streak that Rare had with DKC 1-3, Killer Instinct, GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie... etc. is with the company anymore. It's a completely different group from then, same only in name.

 

[TheSadRanger]

Wait. So you're saying the Rare deal was more like a hostile takeover from Microsoft and then just Nintendo selling the rest of the stock after MS already had the 51% of the company? If true this is the first time I hear about it.

It's not really a hostile takeover but the Stamper brothers owned 51% of the company. Nintendo owned 49%, once the Stamper brothers sold their majority share to Microsoft the minority share was bought out by MS.

 

[Final Verdict]

Rare is not what Nintendo needs.

They need some 1st party studios that make some more mature IPs that can be better appreciated by an older audience, as well as more powerful hardware, third party support, and a much better online infrastructure.


Also, while a lot of people believe that Rare is dead now, they actually still have a good bit of talent, and have made some decent games since having been acquired by Microsoft. (Sure they are not the Rare of old, but far from being dead/sucking)

 

[tronic307]

Nintendo got like $300 million for their stake in Rare. I'd say they got the hell outta Dodge when the getting was good.

 

[Metallix87]

Wait. So you're saying the Rare deal was more like a hostile takeover from Microsoft and then just Nintendo selling the rest of the stock after MS already had the 51% of the company? If true this is the first time I hear about it.

Nintendo owned 50% of the company, while Rare had control of the other 50%, but was looking for a buyer. For a while, they assumed Nintendo would totally buy them up, and Nintendo even extended their timeline for that to happen, but they never went for it. Rare then went out looking for respective buyers. First, they went to Activision, and they had a deal, but it fell through in the last minute. Microsoft came along and made a quick deal to buy up 50% of Rare, as well as ownership of their IPs. Nintendo didn't want to share a studio with a console competitor, so they ended up selling their 50% for a very nice sum, and re-branding Dinosaur Planet as "Star Fox Adventures" late into development to ensure that Microsoft didn't get that game for themselves.

 

[ScOULaris]

Nintendo got like $300 million for their stake in Rare. I'd say they got the hell outta Dodge when the getting was good.

Good point.