A Link to the Past
Banned
They literally made one game, a game that rated 82 out of 100 on average and was a million-seller
How in the world is it that people took this to mean "downward spiral"
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Nintendo selling Rare: in hindsight it hurt more than we think
- Thread starter Alex_Mexico
- Start date
They literally made one game, a game that rated 82 out of 100 on average and was a million-seller
How in the world is it that people took this to mean "downward spiral"
jeremy1456
Junior Member
I was super sad to see Nintendo and Rare go their separate ways. I spent more time with Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark individually than any other title from that generation. They were second only to Nintendo in justifying the Nintendo 64. Diddy Kong Racing is still the best kart racer of all time.
Star Fox Adventures was also my most anticipated title of the generation that followed. Then it released and I liked it but wasn't the biggest fan.
I've played nearly every game they've released since then, and aside from Conker their titles feel like something is missing. It's hard to define. It's like they have the Jet Force Gemini team working on every game now.
Looking back Nintendo probably made the right choice. It only sucks because it feels like the talent didn't go elsewhere. It just disappeared. Yes I played all of the Timesplitters games, and no they didn't feel anything like Goldeneye or Perfect Dark.
Star Fox Adventures was also my most anticipated title of the generation that followed. Then it released and I liked it but wasn't the biggest fan.
I've played nearly every game they've released since then, and aside from Conker their titles feel like something is missing. It's hard to define. It's like they have the Jet Force Gemini team working on every game now.
Looking back Nintendo probably made the right choice. It only sucks because it feels like the talent didn't go elsewhere. It just disappeared. Yes I played all of the Timesplitters games, and no they didn't feel anything like Goldeneye or Perfect Dark.
Right, but Nintendo has never been one to purchase a whole developer. It would have been rather expensive, especially during a time when Nintendo wasn't doing so hot. To me it just seems that the Stamper brothers wanted to make a quick buck and leave the industry while they still could.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Ill happily defend starfox adventure
Because there was nothing else to play, except Geometry Wars.
Even for a console game, it was no Halo 2. Compared to anything on the PC, at the time, it was complete garbage.
It was a bad decision regardless of the state Rare seemingly was in at the time. If Nintendo was willing to take the time to rebuild Retro pre Prime and post Prime during their talent exoduses then why would they not do the same for the dev that defined their previous home console as the local multiplayer console as well as shooter console. Rare gave Nintendo a more western output that they've sorely missed since their departure while also providing that added diversity to Nintendo consoles.
Heck some of the most memorable games to come out under the Nintendo umbrella were Rare games. The likes of the DKC series, the Banjo Tooie series, Conker and of course Goldeneye the home console shooter of the N64/PSX era. Yet they don't go all in to pick them up........ :/
It's taken 2 full generations + part of a third for Nintendo to dip into the competitive shooter arena with Splatoon yet this is the console maker that had the shooter console of the N64/PSX era and shooter fanbase thanks to Rare's work.
Granted there could have been mitigating factors behind the scenes that prevented Nintendo from aquiring them fully but that would have to be something pretty serious to lead to the decision of letting a dev with historically great output like Rare just go.
Heck some of the most memorable games to come out under the Nintendo umbrella were Rare games. The likes of the DKC series, the Banjo Tooie series, Conker and of course Goldeneye the home console shooter of the N64/PSX era. Yet they don't go all in to pick them up........ :/
It's taken 2 full generations + part of a third for Nintendo to dip into the competitive shooter arena with Splatoon yet this is the console maker that had the shooter console of the N64/PSX era and shooter fanbase thanks to Rare's work.
Granted there could have been mitigating factors behind the scenes that prevented Nintendo from aquiring them fully but that would have to be something pretty serious to lead to the decision of letting a dev with historically great output like Rare just go.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Does Monolith Soft not count?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
more like they didnt want another developer like retro pre-prime, retro was in bad shape and nintendo made the purchase before they found out the situation, in which case miyamoto had to step in and get them into shape, this probably also involved some money to get things operational again, this most likely kept nintendo from outright purchasing rare.
meanspartan
Member
gimme a fucking break. This is as close to indisputable as you can get. If not crap, then at least massively reduced in quality.
shiftplusone
Member
the first good game that Rare ever made was viva pinata
A Link to the Past
Banned
Rare under MS is the best ingredients used improperly.
I still remember that Christmas card, it hurt me in the stomach for days, it seriously, seriously depressed me, but we've come to accept that Rare is long gone, now it's a company that makes games I don't give a flying thing about. I bought Viva Pinata and had fun with it, cool game, but it also made me realize that I better stopped caring about Rare
Seeing all the discussion about the Rare changeover and Retro purchase has made me curious again about why Namco decided to sell off their share of Monolith Soft. Don't think it's been as widely documented as the situations that led to Rare going to Microsoft or Nintendo buying Retro?
The most I remember seeing is the usual PR talk.
The most I remember seeing is the usual PR talk.
Bluemercury
Member
And now they're back making phone games...go figure...
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
It seems to be sort of a offering to nintendo for all their troubles of almost acquiring namco but the govt stepping in and saying "no" so probably nintendo had this much shares and couldnt increase past that specific number so namco offered to give the equivalent of those shares. Thats my guess.
Sort of, Nintendo had shares of both Bandai and Namco, so Monolith Soft was sold to Nintendo to help Nintendo divest themselves of the shares.
That's actually pretty normal in day to day business since you don't have to pay tax when you 'trade' shares instead of selling them for a profit.
No it was them trying to get both ends of the consumers, less of power gap then the Wii had and with a full controller as the standard, but with the hope that the touch screen would do what it did with the DS. Trouble is all it did is make a console neither side wanted. For the core it was still weaker and lacked the third party, for the casual it was too expensive and had a complicated controller* at it's heart.
*Ever see this image: http://i.imgur.com/A1qR4zg.jpg ? In the original context it wasn't about bad third party controllers, it was about how your average modern console controller looks like to someone who isn't core.
Bluemercury
Member
It was stamper greedyness too..
Bluemercury
Member
Would love to play GoldenEye, perfect dark and jet force Gemini with wiimote pointer...
To be fair, 200 barely gets it done for a single AAA title these days, especially counting overhead. Nintendo's approach to the global market is certainly far different compared to the Arakawa/Lincoln days. Had those guys stayed around, Nintendo might have grown with the industry instead of pivoting.
I don't know if we'll ever know the truth behind why Nintendo chose to let them go, but it was up until the last minute that they made that decision I think. Proof of that lies on the original GameCube box itself. Half of the games being promoted on it are Rare games: Donkey Kong Racing, Kameo, and Starfox Adventures. That alone is proof I think they had intended on having them around for the GCN era.
I remember Emily Rogers stating in one of her articles that Howard Lincoln was like the "glue that stuck Rare and Nintendo together". He retired in 2001. He was a huge player in the relationship between the two companies and even stated once that Rade were the best developers in the world. Had he still been Nintendo's lawyer, Nintendo would have likely anted up the money.
I remember Emily Rogers stating in one of her articles that Howard Lincoln was like the "glue that stuck Rare and Nintendo together". He retired in 2001. He was a huge player in the relationship between the two companies and even stated once that Rade were the best developers in the world. Had he still been Nintendo's lawyer, Nintendo would have likely anted up the money.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I hated the collecting but what really turned me off was realizing that the game was going to make me play each stage at least 5 times (one for each Kong) and I hated the very idea of that. The insane collect-a-thon was the icing on the shit cake.
And this is coming from someone who loves to this day the DKC trilogy and considers DKC2 one of the best platformers ever made.
Alex_Mexico
Member
In the last 10 or so years Nintendo has at least bought two whole developers: Monolith Soft (makers of Xenoblade) and Retro Studios. So there. Argument invalid.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I remember being shell shocked when I saw this, I couldn't believe my eyes. All the time I heard someone praise Halo I kept thinking "wait until Rare launches Perfect Dark Zero on GC and you'll see who is the FPS king".
This is the moment I realized the Gamecube was not going to live up to my expectations and also that it would never deliver on the multiplayer FPS side of things the N64 did so well with.
http://youtu.be/3fQGroxh7U0
This is the moment I realized the Gamecube was not going to live up to my expectations and also that it would never deliver on the multiplayer FPS side of things the N64 did so well with.
http://youtu.be/3fQGroxh7U0
Riky
$MSFT
This is what people seem to forget, Nintendo didn't decide to sell Rare, the Stampers decided to sell their 51% and Nintendo had the option to buy it at something like $170 million. At that point they didn't think the output they would get justified the cost. I always thought that was a massive mistake and the Gamecube and Wii could have really benefited from Rare software.
However I still loved their Microsoft output until Kinect. Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero Online, Viva Pinata and Nuts n Bolts were well needed in a shooter heavy line up. Also playing Perfect Dark and the two Banjo games on 360 in HD with decent framerates was fantastic.
Can't wait to see what's next but yes Nintendo dropped the ball with Rare.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
As I'm sure already said a hundred times already, Rare was already on its way down, all the important people who left would have regardless.
Donkey Kong 64, Mickeys Highway and Starfox Adventure where games that where not that good
Otakumegane
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfaN267lI_Y
Has this been posted yet. I do agree that they have to make up the loss of West-specifically appealing games somehow. Retro ain't enough for that at all.
Has this been posted yet. I do agree that they have to make up the loss of West-specifically appealing games somehow. Retro ain't enough for that at all.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Whats up all the triple posting man?
dampflokfreund
Banned
Your opinion. SFA is one of my favorite games of all time and much superior to Starfox 64 to me.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
You should just say dinosaur adventures is a better game than starfox 64.
dampflokfreund
Banned
No, I appreciate SFA for what it is instead of be pissed that its not a spaceshooter we had thousands of times before and after.
In all honesty, we've had faaaaaar more Zelda style games than Starfox style games.
Alex_Mexico
Member
You mean me? I went back to this thread after half a day, catched up with all the comments in the last few pages and felt like responding to two different commenters back to back and post a third with a video I remembered. Sorry my M.O. isn't to your liking.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
It was a Zelda clone thats why you like it. I like it too but come on cant compare the 2 genres like that. Thats ridiculous.
Could of just edited im pretty sure back to back to back is against the rules or somethin
Alex_Mexico
Member
Is it really?
Oh wow, about Starfox is that true? That's very telling and explained a lot.
When one realize that 39.41M are related to the Donkey Kong or Star Fox IP (that is 66%) and that for the rest the 40% whose due to a game Rare didn't own the IP (007) it's clear who got the short stick in the Rare deal.
Nintendo got back its investment and their legacy IPs (Donkey Kong and Star Fox).
Stampers bros got a big bag full of money.
While Microsoft got ...
Basically if Rare could have said to MS that in less than a decade they sold 60M games what MS really bought at a high price was responsible for just 12M.
oh yes, the massively oversaturated rail shooter genre
SuperAngelo64
Banned
I really don't miss any Rare franchises.
The DKC Returns games are a lot more enjoyable than the SNES Trilogy to me.
Banjo-Kazooie was just trying to be Mario 64. It was a good game, but the 'charm' of it is just forced and gross. I feel like the fans of the game's 'humor' are the same type of kids who quoted Monty Python in between getting stuffed into lockers. Even if it surpassed Mario 64 as a platformer we now have Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 which knock the pants off of anything Banjo ever did.
Diddy Kong racing was fucking great, but I don't see how a 'collect stars and race' game could evolve into anything past the first installment.
Nintendo got the Diddy Kong character out of it (who is literally just Donkey Kong Jr. with a tail slapped on to be a different character because Nintendo said they changed the design for Jr. too much). So I guess that's neat.
The DKC Returns games are a lot more enjoyable than the SNES Trilogy to me.
Banjo-Kazooie was just trying to be Mario 64. It was a good game, but the 'charm' of it is just forced and gross. I feel like the fans of the game's 'humor' are the same type of kids who quoted Monty Python in between getting stuffed into lockers. Even if it surpassed Mario 64 as a platformer we now have Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 which knock the pants off of anything Banjo ever did.
Diddy Kong racing was fucking great, but I don't see how a 'collect stars and race' game could evolve into anything past the first installment.
Nintendo got the Diddy Kong character out of it (who is literally just Donkey Kong Jr. with a tail slapped on to be a different character because Nintendo said they changed the design for Jr. too much). So I guess that's neat.
The Giant
Banned
Vampirolol
Member
The price of OP's happiness.
Riky
$MSFT
No, Microsoft purchased Rare for $375 million but Nintendo only owned 49% of it, the Stamper brothers got the other 51%.
MS got avatars, which at the time I thought was a realisation of Jallards "snow crash" vision for XBL. What Rare developed instead was a bunch of weird dolls you could buy virtual clothes for and couldn't turn off or get rid of.