Support NeoGAF

[RDreamer]

I don't get why this is controversial. If you can enjoy a piece of entertainment with zero gameplay at all, then how is it not possible to overemphasize gameplay?

This amount of disingenous reasoning is why no one bothers with the OT

Meh, I stated my problems with the game in the OT. I had a bunch of problems and things they could fix up. I'm not trying to make it out like The Order is the be all end all of all games ever or some crap like that. Personally I'd give it a 7 or maybe a 7.5/10 if I were forced at gunpoint to give a number.

 

[Trojan X]

I don't get why this is controversial. If you can enjoy a piece of entertainment with zero gameplay at all, then how is it not possible to overemphasize gameplay?

? You lost me with that statement...

 

[AkuMifune]

Oh man, it's just sad his ticket came in so late to jump on 'The Order is Shit' bandwagon. I'm surprised there's even room left on it.

 

[RoKKeR]

Great review as always with good points and evidence.

Say what you will about his "schtick" but I find myself agreeing with Joe's reasoning on most everything.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

At the heart of every game is the gameplay. If that fails, the game is a failure. You can fill a novel full of flowery speech and beautifully constructed prose, but if the story sucks, it failed.

Most important part in a novel is the characters rather story IMO. If the characters suck, you need one of the best stories of all time. Great characters can carry an average storyline.

 

[twobear]

I'm not sure if it's cherry picked but the gameplay footage he includes really does make the game look like a 4/10. The Lycan fight looks beyond dreadful and the AI partner looks like something I'd consider unreasonably stupid even in like 2004.

 

[RDreamer]

I'm not sure if it's cherry picked but the gameplay footage he includes really does make the game look like a 4/10. The Lycan fight looks beyond dreadful and the AI partner looks like something I'd consider unreasonably stupid even in like 2004.

Whoever designed the Lycan fights should definitely be fired. Or at least not be allowed any decisions going forward. I can definitely agree with that much.

 

[AgentOtaku]

This review was awesome and yeah, feel really confident about just skipping the game outright now

 

[Mpl90]

I hope you never watch a movie in your life. There's zero gameplay there.

Also zero gameplay in comics. Zero gameplay in books.

It's like saying that, when talking about movies, that the importance of good script / scenes is overemphasized. Or that the importance of the melody in a song is overemphasized. Or that the importance of the style an artist choose for his painting is overemphasized.

It...doesn't...make...sense.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

I'm not sure if it's cherry picked but the gameplay footage he includes really does make the game look like a 4/10. The Lycan fight looks beyond dreadful and the AI partner looks like something I'd consider unreasonably stupid even in like 2004.

The Lycan fights are terrible and the partner A.I. is essentially nonexistent (though seemed better in the Ch.11 balcony fight and went back to useless in the next).

I think I gave the game around a 3/5-6/10 range score. Enjoyable for what it is, but really shallow in every aspect.

I think people should try to rent it or eventually pick it up when it hits the $30 or $20 price range still.

 

[keltickennedy]

Was anyone else staring at that full meter of black sight he had when he was dying over and over to the shotgun rush enemies?

 

[AgentOtaku]

That depends if you only use reviews as buyer guides only and not just criticism overall. Often times, criticism later on of a game can be more relevant when you're past the launch hype window and not rushing for a deadline. This is pretty off-topic anyway, long-form video reviews/critiques are a thing (Matthewmatosis, Errant Signal, Super Bunnyhop, and more).

Exactly

 

[EatinOlives]

Angry Joe's schtick is so tired, dude is annoying.

And you come into the thread because...?

 

[EL CUCO]

Was anyone else staring at that full meter of black sight he had when he was dying over and over to the shotgun rush enemies?

I honestly dont know why he insisted on the same approach over and over...

Angry Joe has Lycan AI brain, confirmed.

 

[viveks86]

Not surprised by the review. The lame start actually cracked me up. But he really needs to be a little more sensitive about spoilers. Shocked that he shows blatant disregard for it.

 

[phanphare]

solid review. he explained himself pretty well, even if the score seemed low before watching. the dialogue was especially generic in the scenes that he showed.

hopefully the sequel is an improvement.

 

[mcz117chief]

Hmmm, probably the 1st review where I don't agree with Joe.

 

[Kacho]

I don't get why this is controversial. If you can enjoy a piece of entertainment with zero gameplay at all, then how is it not possible to overemphasize gameplay?

You can't overemphasize gameplay in video games because they're video games.

 

[dragonbane]

You may not like his approach, but at least he puts some proper production into his videos and I personally enjoy them a lot.

 

[RK9039]

Not surprised by the review. The lame start actually cracked me up. But he really needs to be a little more sensitive about spoilers. Shocked that he shows blatant disregard for it.

It's been like that for most of his reviews really.

 

[d9b]

Platinum in da bag, loved the game... But I like Joe, so will watch for teh lulz!

 

[Daemul]

I hope you never watch a movie in your life. There's zero gameplay there.

Also zero gameplay in comics. Zero gameplay in books.

I'm not sure whether this post is a trap or not

 

[Munkybhai]

I hope you never watch a movie in your life. There's zero gameplay there.

Also zero gameplay in comics. Zero gameplay in books.

This may be the silliest thing I've read on here in 4 years, precisely because you are not playing devil's advocate.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

OMG that intro!!!!! that is absolutely incredible!

 

[Paganmoon]

You may not like his approach, but at least he puts some proper production into his videos and I personally enjoy them a lot.

hehe... hehehe.

 

[SmokedMeat]

This review was awesome and yeah, feel really confident about just skipping the game outright now

It worth a rental.

 

[Catdaddy]

I'm looking forward to the Zero Punctuation/ Yatzee's review, his hate for QTEs is over the top.

 

[RDreamer]

It's like saying that, when talking about movies, that the importance of good script / scenes is overemphasized. Or that the importance of the melody in a song is overemphasized. Or that the importance of the style an artist choose for his painting is overemphasized.

It...doesn't...make...sense.

Considering some of the movies that make a lot of money, a good script probably is overemphasized by some, lol.

But seriously, have you never watched a movie that was just fun? Or that maybe had a lot of really cool effects or a cool universe, but maybe a sub par script? I loved the fuck out of Pacific Rim, and I know I'm not the only one. Script matters, but when you're talking about any medium with multiple artistic facets, sometimes you can still be entertained. You can still appreciate the product as a whole.

You can't overemphasize gameplay in video games because they're video games.

So once I add any interactivity at all to a piece of entertainment, that then becomes the absolute most important thing ever, and even if I would be entertained by that product with no gameplay suddenly I should not be entertained?

 

[Cave Johnson]

And a lot more people seem to be overemphasizing it.

That's like saying words can be overemphasized in a dictionary.

 

[RDreamer]

That's like saying words can be overemphasized in a dictionary.

This is the most ridiculous comparison I've ever seen on here.

Games are entertainment. Dictionaries are for education.

 

[cleveridea]

If you can enjoy a movie like game without gameplay then...it makes most sense to watch on youtube since many playthroughs are watchable at 720 or 1080p.

 

[Grylvak]

I agree with a lot of points Joe made, but the AI that Joe had was very different to what I got during the

Spoiler

Half-Breed

sections. The

Spoiler

Half-breed

's would come from different corners, and some of the times I couldn't see them come at me and died a few times because of it. I enjoyed what little story there was, and I only had issues with the

Spoiler

QTE boss battles being reused.

I would've at least given it 6/10, but I'm not a reviewer.

 

[murgo]

This review was awesome and yeah, feel really confident about just skipping the game outright now

Yeah, I'm glad I didn't get it at full price. I'll get it eventually when it's 30€ or something.

 

[Byronic Hero]

This was the first review I've ever seen him do and I think I'll watch a few more. I pretty much agreed with everything he said.

 

[FrankWza]

I agree with a lot of points Joe made, but the AI that Joe had was very different to what I got during the

Spoiler

Half-Breed

sections. The

Spoiler

Half-breed

's would come from different corners, and some of the times I couldn't see them come at me and died a few times because of it. I enjoyed what little story there was, and I only had issues with the

Spoiler

QTE boss battles being reused.

I would've at least given it 6/10, but I'm not a reviewer.

you and him both.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

After watching this review. I have seen the issues with my own eyes. I am glad people enjoyed this game but jeesus, that Lycan fight is downright embarrassing. So much of this game is just really really embarrassing

 

[MrxDemix]

Yup. He pretty much said all that needs to be said. I beat the game in two days and it left no lasting impression.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Can't get behind people complaining about an unfair score. On his scale, 5 is average. To him, the game was clearly not average. It had tons of problems. A bad ending (even if the game was great, that ending should make anyone livid), forgettable, dated gameplay, poor AI, short game time, linear gameplay, poor replay value, this combination of flaws that AngryJoe found in the game sound to me like a justifiable 4/10.

 

[RDreamer]

After watching this review. I have seen the issues with my own eyes. I am glad people enjoyed this game but jeesus, that Lycan fight is downright embarrassing. So much of this game is just really really embarrassing

Lycan fights were indeed embarrassing, but other than that the actual gunplay was rather good. The weapons had great weight, aiming, and overall feel to them. One of my favorite feeling TPS games. It's a shame they didn't do a bit more with the 'arena' designs and encounters.

 

[Kacho]

So once I add any interactivity at all to a piece of entertainment, that then becomes the absolute most important thing ever

If you're talking about video games, yes.

and even if I would be entertained by that product with no gameplay suddenly I should not be entertained?

If you took out all of the gameplay it would no longer be classified as a video game. You're free to be entertained by whatever it ends up being.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Considering some of the movies that make a lot of money, a good script probably is overemphasized by some, lol.

But seriously, have you never watched a movie that was just fun? Or that maybe had a lot of really cool effects or a cool universe, but maybe a sub par script? I loved the fuck out of Pacific Rim, and I know I'm not the only one. Script matters, but when you're talking about any medium with multiple artistic facets, sometimes you can still be entertained. You can still appreciate the product as a whole.



So once I add any interactivity at all to a piece of entertainment, that then becomes the absolute most important thing ever, and even if I would be entertained by that product with no gameplay suddenly I should not be entertained?

No, the point is that the entire basis of video games since their inception was the interactivity. It's been the main pull of interest to the medium essentially since it's inception. That's why people prioritize it's importance, it's been a main ingredient in the medium since it was invented.

No one is going to compare it to interactivity in movies because interactivity in movies wasn't one of the base concepts of the medium. There is no way you're not being willfully ignorant with these posts. It's also why people seem to be taking people who defend the Order so feverishly less seriously. None of your points make sense, it's like you can't grasp the idea that people want different things from their entertainment mediums.

 

[Sydle]

This took 5 years to make?! Yikes.

I'm a fan of RAD, so I' like to see them develop their own IP further. They have the engine and assets to make shorter work of the sequel, but I really hope their priorities change.

 

[barit]

The Order 1887 - 2/3 Cutscenes/QTE's 1/3 gameplay
The Order 1888 - 3/3 Cutscenes/QTE's no gameplay.

Then call it The Order 1888 - The movie sequel (like FFVII:AC)

For real I found his video funny and good. The Order has flaws but I still enjoyed it as a game. I wouldn't call it trash or utterly crap like some posters here do but the overall experience was disapointing because it had so much potential. I always said "Make it more like RE4 and less like Ryse" but RaD didn't listen to me. Well let's hope they listen now when the sequel is hopefully been made. I still wish them all the best because I think they deserve it and have a true gem here but they need to make it shine. (not only with graphics and acting and sound but as total package).

 

[Fjordson]

Great review as always from Joe (as far as production and whatnot).

As for the score, I guess it's pretty spot on for me. I couldn't even finish the game to be honest. Even though the three and a half hours I played is like half the game apparently, I couldn't press on. It's just so incredibly dull.

A damn shame considering how neat the setting and story set up is and how amazing it looks.

 

[depths20XX]

What's up with the Superman shirt and dated jacket? Dudes been wearing the same shit for the last 10 years. Grow up, Irate Joe.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

Lycan fights were indeed embarrassing, but other than that the actual gunplay was rather good. The weapons had great weight, aiming, and overall feel to them. One of my favorite feeling TPS games. It's a shame they didn't do a bit more with the 'arena' designs and encounters.

Yeah I thought the gunplay looked really good in places too. Such a shame that this is what came out after 5 years....A major shame.

 

[Golgo 13]

Joe is such an obnoxious douchelord. I seriously have zero respect for him. I also can't understand why people care about what "internet celebrities" think about, well, anything.

 

[RDreamer]

No, the point is that the entire basis of video games since their inception was the interactivity. It's been the main pull of interest to the medium essentially since it's inception. That's why people prioritize it's importance, it's been a main ingredient in the medium since it was invented.

No one is going to compare it to interactivity in movies because interactivity in movies wasn't one of the base concepts of the medium. There is no way you're not being willfully ignorant with these posts. It's also why people seem to be taking people who defend the Order so feverishly less seriously. None of your points make sense, it's like you can't grasp the idea that people want different things from their entertainment mediums.

I find this last statement funny. I feel like some of you can't grasp the idea that people want different things from their entertainment, and that's what I've been trying to tell you. People even want different things at different times.

I'm not asking you to compare interactivity in movies to interactivity to games. I'm asking you all to compare entertainment to entertainment. It's been the main pull of interest in both mediums since its inception, and that's why people prioritize its importance.

 

[Cave Johnson]

This is the most ridiculous comparison I've ever seen on here.

Games are entertainment. Dictionaries are for education.

You should take your advice and look up the word "irony". Games can be used for education too, you know?

 

[Fjordson]

Can't get behind people complaining about an unfair score. On his scale, 5 is average. To him, the game was clearly not average. It had tons of problems. A bad ending (even if the game was great, that ending should make anyone livid), forgettable, dated gameplay, poor AI, short game time, linear gameplay, poor replay value, this combination of flaws that AngryJoe found in the game sound to me like a justifiable 4/10.

Yeah, I never get this concept of a review being unfair, save for some extreme exceptions. There's 25 minutes here explaining Joe's score and he clearly played through the game.

At the end of the day, it's just one opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Disagreeing with it doesn't make it "unfair".

Joe is such an obnoxious douchelord. I seriously have zero respect for him. I also can't understand why people care about what "internet celebrities" think about, well, anything.

Really? People go bonkers over game reviews and Joe puts out long ones with a decent amount of production values. His appeal seems like a pretty simple concept to me...