Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Less budget and more casting director's choices
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How did we go from FF12 quality voice acting to FFtype 0 VA?
- Thread starter Tidus_Great
- Start date
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
XII is a high water mark for localization. Maybe the best one ever.
I actually think XIII is really good, or at least, if there are failings, it's due to the material, not the actors or voice direction. I think it's the best possible dub that could have resulted from that base material.
Type-0 is not even as bad as the acting in A Realm Reborn, Gideon Emery and Sam Reigel excluded. Some of the VA in that game is truly dire.
FFX is not as bad as people like to say now. Hedy Buress can sound a bit wooden, and of course there's that laughing scene that everyone remembers, but overall there's some solid work in that game, especially for the time.
I actually think XIII is really good, or at least, if there are failings, it's due to the material, not the actors or voice direction. I think it's the best possible dub that could have resulted from that base material.
Type-0 is not even as bad as the acting in A Realm Reborn, Gideon Emery and Sam Reigel excluded. Some of the VA in that game is truly dire.
FFX is not as bad as people like to say now. Hedy Buress can sound a bit wooden, and of course there's that laughing scene that everyone remembers, but overall there's some solid work in that game, especially for the time.
Night_Knight
Unconfirmed Member
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JoseTheTaco
Banned
Can you speak fluent Japanese?
Supermanisdead
Member
jack and nine are like early ps2 budget srpg tier voice acting. no, probably even worse. star ocean 4 tier voice acting maybe.
Can't find any examples right now, but a lot of cutscenes had stiff, wooden VA. One scene in particular where one of the City leader makes a speech has hilarious background reaction VOs.
ARR's VA isn't atrocious overall, but I found it more jarring than Type-0 or XIII's.
All three are far inferior to XII unfortunately
Slangblade
Member
Final Fantasy XII voice acting is the best in the series imo. It has been declining ever since
Tidus_Great
Banned
lmao.
cinque is basically FF type 0 version of Lymle.
Star ocean 4 is definetely a good comparison.
sensui-tomo
Member
My problem with FF type-0 is that there are some good VAs in it but damn the direction is terrible, like a good comparison might be MGS original to MGS twin snakes, compare the voices of both games (which for the most part had the same cast except 2 characters iirc). And i wont see "Its a psp game" as an excuse since Crisis core at the very least had a good anime dub voice cast if that makes any sense(aka it was good to listen to unlike Type-0 which had me turn off the dub quick) Now i know lots of people love the FF12 and DQ8 cast, but i hope that it doesnt become the norm, I couldnt get into Xenoblade due to the Cockney accents being forcibly blatant, DQ8 at the least seemed right for the cast since DQ seems to have a european like feel to it, like how baccano! has a early 20s america feel to it.
CambriaRising
Member
I really like Type 0, don't get me wrong. But they did a half assed job on the environments and models outside of the main 14, and the VO and writing is straight up garbage.
I did try this, but ended up getting terribly confused in the middle of missions when orders/plot was happening over the radio as I couldn't tell who was who by voice alone when I was concentrating on fighting.
So, I've stuck with the English and I'll put up with it.
sensui-tomo
Member
yes but like i've said, that doesnt change the fact that there are good psp dubbed games, Star Ocean 1,2(by english dubbed anime standards), Crisis core ,dissidia, persona 3 Portable, persona 1, Metal gear peace walker(probably the best)
Baccano is proof that Voice Direction is everything consider most of Baccano's VA cast were absolute new comers to anything acting wise, and the rest were just anime staples.
The false belief that theater folks are of a higher standard, which is laughable considering many anime and game VAs have their origins in the theater really needs to stop.
Also Budget likely had nothing to do with it. Type-0's English VA cast is just as A list as their JP one.
The false belief that theater folks are of a higher standard, which is laughable considering many anime and game VAs have their origins in the theater really needs to stop.
Also Budget likely had nothing to do with it. Type-0's English VA cast is just as A list as their JP one.
fluffydelusions
Member
Somewhat offtopic but where is lightning returns on PC. Wasn't it supposed to be this month?
Bad voice direction. Maybe it's just me, but Bob Buchholz works don't seem to be as good as Jack Fletcher's.
Also it's funny when people say it's cheap cause these were mostly union VAs, the type who get big paychecks and actual credits. Goes to show you it's not how much you pay that makes acting good(also script).
Also it's funny when people say it's cheap cause these were mostly union VAs, the type who get big paychecks and actual credits. Goes to show you it's not how much you pay that makes acting good(also script).
dancrane212
Member
I can't imagine NIER having that great of a VO budget yet it still sounds better than what I've heard from playing Type 0 and FFVX. Good direction will take you much further than a big budget.
Stilton Disco
Member
I'm not going to disagree with you that those were definite flaws, but I don't think you can blame it on a lack of effort, considering how good most of the game does look considering it's origins. Ultimately, time constraints and budget were likely far more impactful on asset management than the Devs simply not using their whole arse.
And I really don't think writing and voice work should be blamed on the Devs working on the port. Blame the original writers and localisation teams for that.
Voice director for Type 0 was different from one who did XII/XIII. Plus all the localization and dubbing was done back in 2011 when they were still planning on releasing the English version on PSP so they put less effort into it than they would have with a full release. You can hear the same half-assedness in the Dissidia games
cloudstrife
Member
I don't understand how Kingdom Hearts can get a stellar english dub, but now not even FF15 is spared.
8-4 are an absolutely amazing localizer and everyone should give a listen to their podcasts if they're interested in the stuff. Drakengard 3 was pretty amazing.
Oddly enough the same person who directs KH directed FF-Type 0.
Nier was actually one of the best localizations on the PS3 generation IMHO.
Allegedly the fact that it's a joint effort with Disney bumps up the quality quite a bit.
Not even that could keep Aerith's voice acting in KH2 from being awful though
Compared to the state of other localizations at that time, Final Fantasy X wasn't that bad.
It's a sad thing that Type-0 English has Steve Blum as Cid and then a debut role for Aimee Castle as Qun'Mi who I think does a decent job, but then you get the rest of the English voice cast. Sorry, Steve and Aimee, you're not worth it.
Probably have 8-4 to partially thank for that.
Begaria
Member
I've only played a few hours into Type-0HD and beat the FFXV demo, but I guess I must have a high threshold for bad voice acting, because so far I don't mind the English voice acting. Sure, there's a few really bad performances in Type-0HD, but so far it's not so bad that it would make me switch to the Japanese VA, at least not yet.
I'll need to hear a lot more of the english voice acting in FFXV to make a decision, but I liked what I've heard so far.
I'll need to hear a lot more of the english voice acting in FFXV to make a decision, but I liked what I've heard so far.
Yabberwocky
Member
NIER was incredible. Drakengard 3 had the same team, right?
XII/Tactics Team and the NIER Team are fantastic. XV seems like such a step down, it's bizarre.
sensui-tomo
Member
This and Ni No Kuni , Drakengard 3 also had a stellar cast, shame i found the game to be my biggest disappointment of that gen(terms of game/story)
The thing I wish I could find out is, which games had Union actors and which didnt, I'm willing to guess Type-0 was a non-union job but it wouldnt be the first time i'm wrong, (iirc Tales of xillia was a non union game while its sequel became a union game (Voice actors guild)
flatearthpandas
Member
The same way we went from a consistent release of console games to $60 PSP remasters.
FFX's localization honestly still holds up today. I never understand where the hate for it comes from
Before anyone does it, responding to this with laughing tidus.avi is not a legitimate criticism
sensui-tomo
Member
They all cant afford Kris Zimmerman
The people handling the localization and the resulting decisions on how to write the dialogue and handle voice direction make all the difference, leading to a stark contrast between a localization like FFXII's and ones like XV+Type-0. Fairly certain that budget is irrelevant here, particularly when as others have pointed out, Nier was also funded and published by SE and clearly didn't have much of a budget. No amount of money can make up for a lack of vision or talent.
Disney always have a say in how localizations for KH are handled.
Megatron
Member
That might be a little harsh, but it's clear Square doesn't expect this to perform as well as a mainline FF would and cut some cost corners. You notice they didn't release it at a cheaper price though...
sensui-tomo
Member
About that ......
TheSadRanger
Banned
Heck just look at the IMDB for the actors who did the voices of the game. Other than the kids all of them have a resume that's a mile long.
threelights
Member
The actors were not the problem. Heck, even the newer ones have pretty decent voices.
It's the direction.
dancrane212
Member
Yeah 8-4 did a great job on those two games. Makes it all the stranger that I really disliked the localisation of Fire Emblem Awakening (though that could just be the original script - not the translation).
Yup. The director of NIER apparently requested 8-4 do D3 after the job 8-4 did with NIER. I even believe John Ricciardi flew out to the US to oversee voice recordings for both games.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Best voice acting in the industry is still going to sound bad if the script is poor.
I could talk at length on this topic, but basically:
A) Voice direction.
B) I wasn't in it.
:V
Well most of the VAs were all union VAs. For one thing, they're actually credited in the end credits. The presence of Steve Blum also definitely confirms this because he never does non-union work anymore.
Also, you're wrong. ToX2 isn't union. Well, the distinction doesn't really matter. Your anime and video game VAs are mostly all union really, the real distinction here is whether they're fi-core or not. Your AAA VAs aren't (Troy Baker, Steve Blum, Jennifer Hale, etc...). Your lesser known VAs (Yuri Lowenthal, Mathew Mercer, Cristina Vee, Erin Fitzgerald etc...) are. The latter forfeit part of their union benefits to do technically non-union work (basically lower wage jobs from smaller localization companies), however they're still part of the union and can do union work as well.
Recently there was a big campaign by them for the VAG to properly recognize and credit them and impose less restrictions.
I probably got a massive amount of this wrong so please correct me if I did.
Fletcher did XIII-2. Someone called Chris Borders apparently did Lightning Returns.