I couldn't agree more.
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Gay Honor student cant wear tux to prom. "Girls wear dresses and boys wear tuxes"
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I couldn't agree more.
LawfulEnder
Neo Member
People are actually defending this nonsense?
If it's a formal event, it shouldn't be a problem because she intends to wear formal attire.
Gender specific dress codes are obviously a problem for some people and it's baffling to me that there are people who'd rather make someone else suffer than change a rule.
If it's a formal event, it shouldn't be a problem because she intends to wear formal attire.
Gender specific dress codes are obviously a problem for some people and it's baffling to me that there are people who'd rather make someone else suffer than change a rule.
I'm guessing they just wouldn't let her in and would tell her to go home.
If she persisted they might do what they threatened here:
And basically threaten her with "If you stay the prom ends"
As has been said many times, a girl wanting to wear s FORMAL tuxedo, and a guy wanting to wear casual jeans and a shirt is NOT the same, at all
expose them. this is a totally meaningless and needless 'rule' (not to mention basically just invented because homophobia).
A consequentialist would absolutely not want rules to be arbitrary, ever, and would definitely think of arbitrary rules with derision. Perhaps you're more of a solipsist? That sounds more in line with what you're describing.
Of course there isn't, it's just the basis of debate. I could point out that someone's beliefs have no rational or evidentiary basis, and they could say "well I don't care about reason or evidence." They're welcome to feel that way, but the conversation is, at that point, over.
Honestly, still, it doesn't make it that much better. They are still trying to dictate that people only wear what is stereotypically normal.
Funny thing is I thought that people were over the girls don't always wear dresses when I was a kid (I'm almost 40 now) and that we are still working on the BS that guys can't wear dresses at this point. And we have these backwater people who still can't even get over a female wearing a tux.
Shit, I wear a suit when I go to an interview (Female and I hate dresses/skirts) which is a helluva lot more important how you dress than a prom.
And I can totally sympathize as a straight female with her. I'd be pissed if they told me I had to wear a dress too. I'm not as brave as her, I'd probably either just not go or get a dress honestly. But I totally support her standing up against the BS, whether it's cause she's gay or they have some stupid notion that females have to wear dresses to be formal. (and I'd support a guy wanting to wear a dress too if that is what he wants to do).
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
How is it not? A tuxedo is not formal wear for a woman, a dress is not formal wear for a man.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh FFS let her wear the damn tux
Says who? Did you somehow miss the picture of Ellen hosting the fucking Oscars in a tux?
I agree with your sentiment (especially the observation of likely hidden agendas), but I want to make one correction here: I don't think the "rules are rules" train of thought is reductive, it's just tautological.
You should follow the rule.
Okay, why should I follow this rule?
Because it's the rule.
CharminUltra
Member
This is silly. Let her wear the tux.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I would imagine that a lot if the fashion choices at the Oscars would not be considered formal attire at a high school prom either. I mean honestly I guess I would still consider her dressed in formal attire, but wouldn't consider Trey and Matt to be dressed formally that one time.
Honestly, it's a high school prom, I doubt half of the people there want to be in formal attire at all. I bet the chaperones don't care if she wears a tux other than having to deal with guys showing up in dresses.
It also amazes me when I think about how people can get so involved/invested in their own "world" that something like what a kid wears to a high school dance actually matters to them enough to be a dick.
Who the hell cares what the kids wear. It's a freaking high school dance. It's only important to this principal because he is living in the tiny box that is his school. If he expanded his mind and his world view a bit he'd realize that the school dance is pointless in the grand scheme of things and obviously not worth being a dick.
Who the hell cares what the kids wear. It's a freaking high school dance. It's only important to this principal because he is living in the tiny box that is his school. If he expanded his mind and his world view a bit he'd realize that the school dance is pointless in the grand scheme of things and obviously not worth being a dick.
Correct, but I am not interested in debating for the sake of a mental exercise. I am interested in settling on a framework that can be applied in situations such as these, i.e. the breaking of arbitrary social conventions, and when it can be considered acceptable. I have stated before that solipsism and postmodernism are not valid approaches to an argument, and I said this because they lead an argument to nowhere. I am now stating that rationality is not a valid approach to every situation, because it leads our collective praxis to nowhere. If we rooted out everything rationally non-compliant but ultimately harmless from society, will we have bettered ourselves in any way beyond the symbolic?
I will restate my point, just to simplify it: something arbitrary is neither good nor bad, unless it proves to be either helpful or deleterious. Until then, it is simply neutral.
This is so true that it hurts.
Syph Medwes
Member
by your definition isn't every dress code sexist then? what about uniforms at a boarding school? and what about men not feeling comfortable?
Frankly, that's ridiculous. And we have multiple first-person accounts in this very thread of women wearing tuxedos or suits in environments requiring formal attire.
So your statement is just wrong. What I agree with however is that none of this should be an issue, because it's a high school prom.
Oh it's Louisiana? Not surprised then. This is the same state where a bar refused to serve my cousin's friend because he was of color. And he was even in uniform (army).
We don't have this problem up North, I remember a lesbian in my graduating class wore a tux to prom. She rocked it very well too.
We don't have this problem up North, I remember a lesbian in my graduating class wore a tux to prom. She rocked it very well too.
Gay doesn't even factor into this, what does it matter if a woman wears a tux? I promise the world will be the same the next morning and nothing will have changed.
Oh boy. Guys, the rules are written! Let's pack it up and go home.
Oh boy. Guys, the rules are written! Let's pack it up and go home.
No of course not, but in this situation it clearly is.
Saying "You can't wear that because you are making the company look bad" is different than saying "You can't wear that because you are a girl and girls don't wear that".
And in regards to men not feeling comfortable, if they would rather wear a dress then they should be allowed too, if that makes them more comfortable.
But there is also a difference in a girl saying "I'd rather a wear a suit than a dress" in a formal setting than a guy in the same formal setting saying "I don't like a tuxedo, so i'm going to wear a onesie"
It's 2AM here, you have to explain why you made me laugh and wake my friend up.
the most truerest
Gotdatmoney
Member
I don't really get why she can't wear the tux. Women wearing suits and ties and formal attire generally designed for men isn't uncommon at all. It's far more common in the working world than men wearing dresses for example. Even then, it's not harming anyone so I don't really see why people care.
Astral Dog
Member
But what if it was the other way around?
I hope they can make an exception for her, as its a special day, and she is their honor student, but i understand why they would be a bit hesitant to change the dressing code.
I hope they can make an exception for her, as its a special day, and she is their honor student, but i understand why they would be a bit hesitant to change the dressing code.
kingwingin
Member
I hope a guy shows up in a dress.
But if it's just "formal attire" then it doesn't matter what they wear
But if it's just "formal attire" then it doesn't matter what they wear
then there's nothing to discuss anymore. The girl is right and this issue has been rightfully brought to attention
this is a wrong assumption, imho. By your logic any stupid rule should be disregarded because reasons. That's not how it works. Sometimes we all wish the contrary, but it's not
Traditions are per definition things you do that have no basis in rationality, otherwise they would be logical and not tradition. You're kind of asking an impossible thing here.
Vicetrailia
Member
Normally you enforce rules on everyone or no one because if you let one person get by someone else will want to as well.
But I think that as long as she wears a standard tux, she's good to go. But then if a male wants to wear a dress, would you let him?
The first is a real interests that is happening now, and the second hasn't even come up, so I'd give her what she wants.
But I think that as long as she wears a standard tux, she's good to go. But then if a male wants to wear a dress, would you let him?
The first is a real interests that is happening now, and the second hasn't even come up, so I'd give her what she wants.
If that rule is archaic, discriminatory, sexist and a whole lot more and transgressing it hurts literally no one on any level?
In that case it absolutely works that way.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I'll agree that very few traditions are based on logic.
However, not all traditions are detrimental either, why should we keep around traditions that are harmful to certain people?
metalslimer
Member
That's the point I assume. If tradition has no logical value and can only hurt someone why should we use the "tradition" argument as a means to defend it.
Now we get into a real dicey situation when we start talking about something like Zwarte Piet because it both hurts people and makes people happy. However, in this case, who exactly is this specific dress code making happy?
Not if it's a black or white tie dress code.
okay, break it then but expect to be sanctioned for doing so, which is absolutely your right
That should make it even easier to abandon them if they turn out to be harmful and outdated, no?
Yeah I'm not a big tradition kind of guy for the same reason. But presumably the vast majority of kids like the idea of a prom and an excuse to dress up in formal attire. It's also not nice if someone wants to do away with this tradition (and you could wonder how hurt she really is). Traditions lose their lustre when they become optional.
metalslimer
Member
I'm sorry I really don't get what you've been arguing throughout this thread? You keep talking about how people will be punished for breaking the rules and that's kind of obvious.
I really don't think this is a big part of the prom tradition. When I went to prom, there were multiple people who couldn't afford tuxes and just showed in button down and tie.
No shit? That's kinda the point here.
it's not so obvious when you have people arguing about whether a rule is to be followed or not
okay then
metalslimer
Member
That's not what people are arguing about. People are arguing about whether the rule has any merit to begin with and why the administrators should allow it. You're acting like this is a constitutional amendment
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