• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PlayStation Network Thread | April 2015

Tizoc

Member
While I'm sold on SK and JD2, I'm still not sure about the rest.

How is Juju? Looks like a DKCR clone which is great in my book, but I wonder if it's actually good.

Juju is IMO a good 'baby's first 2D platformer' It's graphics are good and it is simple for children to get into...except maybe the bonus stages. Long as they focus on the main game chances are they'll like it.
If you are more used to platformers from the NES era up til PSX era, you may not like it much.
 

autoduelist

Member
Sorry, I could've sworn I replied to your message the other day but I guess I forgot. Here's how it went down:

I initially set everything up online, under the assumption that I would first be able to talk to someone to explain the situation with the lost receipt. This was around the 11th of March and I received an email telling me a shipment box was on its way. It arrived a few days later and I talked to someone from customer service who quoted me a price of $70 to repair the screen. I told them I'd think about it and hung up as I figured I'd eventually be able to talk to someone who realized the Vita 2000 hasn't been available in the US for a whole year yet and they'd give me a break. I talked to a few more people a couple of days later and explained the situation but they insisted each time that the Vita has been out for longer than a year, even after specifying that I was talking about the newer model.
Finally fed up, I resigned myself to giving them the $70 but the latest person I spoke to before sending the Vita off assured me that the repair center had ways of checking when the Vita was purchased and whether or not it was actually still under warranty. With that in mind, I shipped it off with no hesitation.

That was the 4th of the month and it arrived in the repair facility the 8th, if the tracking number is to be believed. I've heard nothing of its status since and the case number in my email doesn't work, which led to me talking to a chat agent. He asked if I sent in a receipt along with the Vita and that sidetracked the conversation and he quoted me a higher price of $130. I was so taken away that I didn't even think to tell him about the other, cheaper price. I'm still in the dark as to its status as I left the chat after some spiteful words to Sony (but giving the agent my thanks and telling him I wasn't angry at him).

It could be on its way back to me or it could be in a box somewhere.

When exactly were you supposed to pay this money? Were they going to send it back to you with an invoice?

If they've had it in the repair facility since the 8th, I'd suggest calling them again. Have your tracking number and case number ready. Don't bring up the price issue, don't bring up the lack of receipt... just have them find your Vita and tell you where its at.

Don't stress out about a second customer service people quoting you a higher amounts on the phone... just wait for the bill, and it it's not the $70 you were originally quoted call billing and tell them. Again, don't bring up anything complex or confusing... don't mention multiple phone calls, or receipts, or whatever - just stick to - "I was quoted $70". That's the only relevant information and everything else just will confuse or sidetrack them.

Besides, that's one of the wonderful things about customer service (not just Sony) - if you ask enough times, you'll likely get a different answers.

As for the hubabaloo regarding it only being out for less than a year, they probably have to deal with people with imports out of warranty, which is why your lack of receipt confuses the situation. That said, it is quite possible they'll know from the serial number if it falls under warranty and it may just work out in your favor automatically. Heck, the import/domestic issue might even be why you were quoted different prices by different people -- wait to you have a bill in your hands to even start to be concerned.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Not sure I agree with either statement.

Memory limitations can force major concessions that you didn't plan on. For example, you might have designed all your levels on paper and had prototypes, but once you get your assets and enemies and everything going you struggle to hit 15 fps. So after debating your options, you cut every level in half (double the levels, now, but each much shorter). That's a viable, if simplistic, solution.

I wouldn't always be so quick to put all blame on the developer either. Platforms can have issues that are extremely hard to design around. If the game doesn't play well, sure, that's bad design and it happens. But technical issues can be just as much the fault of the limitations of a platform, or engine, or programming language as they are the developers.

Memory limitations, in particular, are not something that can be solved by 'save games' or 'checkpoints' as you suggest. I mean, if you have an open world game and can't load everything you'd be able to see standing on a tower into memory at the same time, you need to start making serious concessions to draw distance, number of objects, etc. Heck, you might even remove anything tall that gives a wide view. VC2 is a perfect example of that sort of concession where they needed to reduce the battlefield size... save games don't help with that.
I've never said any genre belongs to any platform. I said the game design of the game from genre depends on the platform it's made for, and hardware limitation plays a big role in that. You're free to believe it has nothing to do with each other, but the market has proven otherwise.
A game should be designed around the hardware is going to run on, that's exactly what i'm saying, except that you bind hardware power with home/handheld dinstinction.

Again what do power have to do portability?

What can now be done on home consoles will be possible on future handhelds and what is possible on current handhelds was not possible in past home consoles, so how is even possible to think to bind hardware power with portability? Are you telling me that in 2008 VC was an home console game and that since in the future(or even in the present imo) it will be possible on a handhled it will become a handheld game?

Any kind of distinction between games should be based on intrinsic characteristics of the structure of the games.

And yes the blame goes always to developers when they make a new game(ports are another thing), because they should make the best with all they have(hardware, people, money), if you want to make a Vita game(but this applies to any kind of hardware, home, handheld, mobile and everything else) you should first know what Vita can do, if you plan to do Witcher 3-like game on Vita you can't blame Vita because you can't do it or calling the game "home" for this reason, if you make that Witcher 3-like game with PS1 graphics it will probably run on Vita but no one would probably buy it, so it's all about making the right choices, like not making that witcher 3-like game on Vita at all but an original rpg designed specifically for Vita.

If borderlands 2 Vita had PS1 graphics(just an example) it would probably have been a native res 60fps 1:1 port, but no one would have bought borderlands 2 with PS1 graphics so developers preferred to sacrifice other aspects for better graphics, it's all about choices, not about a supposed handheld/home nature of a game.

If a game is not going to run on Vita then it should be cancelled or developed on a more powerful console unless acceptable downgrades can make it run perfectly on Vita.

Any hardware has its limits, but they have nothing to do with the handheld/home games dinstinction.
 
See, I don't understand where people are really getting this from? It's being talked up just as much as DG was here. It seems a bit early to get concerned about it, especially since we have no reliable way to know how many people are getting it.

I haven't really seen many people talking about it to be honest.

I really hope it does well. I personally like the aesthetic a lot more than Demon Gaze, and I'd like to get Operation Babel over here, but I'm just not really feeling that there's many people interested at the moment. Doesn't help that the LE still isn't sold out.

Hope I'm wrong though!
 

Maid

Banned
I haven't really seen many people talking about it to be honest.

I really hope it does well. I personally like the aesthetic a lot more than Demon Gaze, and I'd like to get Operation Babel over here, but I'm just not really feeling that there's many people interested at the moment. Doesn't help that the LE still isn't sold out.

Hope I'm wrong though!

Aren't they have the same artist? After the delay obviously not many would talk about it.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Aren't they have the same artist? After the delay obviously not many would talk about it.

It is the same art team or part of them anyways. I forget exactly but they have like 2 character artists Kurosawa Tetsu & Oxiji yen, multiple monster artists and other designers. The demons in demon gaze were done by someone else forgot who though. They seem to contract folks for art at times too.

Looked up the JP team credits and the 2 character artists are back and 2 of the monster designers. kyo was the name of the one who did the demon design in demon gaze.
 

antibolo

Banned
It is the same art team or part of them anyways. I forget exactly but they have like 2 character artists Kurosawa Tetsu & Oxiji yen, multiple monster artists and other designers. The demons in demon gaze were done by someone else forgot who though. They seem to contract folks for art at times too.

Looked up the JP team credits and the 2 character artists are back and 2 of the monster designers. kyo was the name of the one who did the demon design in demon gaze.

What about the music composer(s)?
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
What about the music composer(s)?

Same also Naoaki Jimbo

http://jimbo-sound.com/

Hes done a lot of work for various companies. The work related to Exp inc are as follows below.

Wizardry Xth 1 & 2 (Michaelsoft *Pre-Exp Inc)
Generation Xth 1-3 (Exp Inc)
Students of Round (Exp Inc)
Labyrinth Cross Blood (Exp Inc)
Demon Gaze (Exp Inc + Kadokawa Games)

Since Op Abyss is not directly listed they must have just used his previously composed music for it which is perfectly fine considering its the same game series just with redone assets.
 

Christian

Member
Can anyone help me find the physical, Asian copy of Oreshika 2? Play-Asia is sold out with no indication of a restock. I had to wait for some cash to finally grab a copy, and now I can't find one. Didn't anticipate them being gone so quickly.
 
Can anyone help me find the physical, Asian copy of Oreshika 2? Play-Asia is sold out with no indication of a restock. I had to wait for some cash to finally grab a copy, and now I can't find one. Didn't anticipate them being gone so quickly.

This question seems to be asked a lot lately.

Buygame2 might have a few in stock ("less"), but I can't quite tell.
 
Thank you. I've never heard of this retailer. How reliable are they?

No idea sorry, Oreshika is the first game I've ordered from them.

Came recommended by a few people on reddit, so I thought I'd give them a try.

You could also ask Wiiflare (not sure if that's spelt right) in this thread and see if he could track you down a copy.
 

wilflare

Member
No idea sorry, Oreshika is the first game I've ordered from them.

Came recommended by a few people on reddit, so I thought I'd give them a try.

You could also ask Wiiflare (not sure if that's spelt right) in this thread and see if he could track you down a copy.

you got the name right :)
 

Li Kao

Member
So guys, anyone know of an European online retailer still selling (NEW) PS3 slim and not ultra
hideous
slim ?
While I just bought a PS4 and will have to wait a little before buying another console, I get the feeling that finding a new slim PS3 won't be easy. At all.
 

wilflare

Member
LOL. You are doing those folks a great service though, I'm sure everyone of them is very thankful for what you did aha.

haha I'm just doing what I hope folks would do for me if I ever need help ^^
--

and you need to join us at the chat (
or when is GE2 RB getting localised
)
 
Helldivers, Killstrain, Hollowpoint, Alienation.

Sony sure have a lot of downloadable multiplayer/co-op-focused hardcore shooters. I'll probably end up playing all of them.
 

VLiberty

Member
Juju is IMO a good 'baby's first 2D platformer' It's graphics are good and it is simple for children to get into...except maybe the bonus stages. Long as they focus on the main game chances are they'll like it.
If you are more used to platformers from the NES era up til PSX era, you may not like it much.
Thanks!

Not really(on the contrary, a lot of NES/SNES era platformers aren't my cup of tea). Glad to know it's good, now I just have to decide whether to get it now or wait for it to go PS+. Changing my HDD made me realize how crazily big my PS3 backlog is.

I think I'll just get Joe Danger 2 and Scram Kitty (my Vita backlog is a hell as well, but it's smaller and I play more on Vita)
 
haha I'm just doing what I hope folks would do for me if I ever need help ^^
--

and you need to join us at the chat (
or when is GE2 RB getting localised
)
Having a hard time at school as is with finals, my posts on GAF have reduced immensely too. After next week I will be back full time again aha! And GE2 is gonna happen mark my words.
 

Shizuka

Member
I'm not sure IFI press event will be streamed or what it is. It'd be helpful if a journalist from GAF could share the info, I just don't think anyone from here is attending to the event.
 

autoduelist

Member
A game should be designed around the hardware is going to run on, that's exactly what i'm saying, except that you bind hardware power with home/handheld dinstinction.

Of course. But you don't always know the exact limitations of your platform or your engine at design time. I mean, sure, you know what it says on paper, but until you're pushing pixels and loading actual assets into memory and running everything through your engine, you're throwing coins in a fountain hoping you're not going to run into any major issues.

Again what do power have to do portability?

I must be misunderstanding this question. Clearly the form factor size of a device has everything to do with power -- it affects the amount of space you have for your innards, heat dispersion issues, battery size. Not to mention important, but non-power related issues (lack of 4 triggers on vita, easy example).

Simply designing for 2 triggers instead of 4 is a 'concession' to current portability requirements on the Vita. Or designing a third person action game (say, GTA) around 1 analog stick during PSP's era is a concession to portability.

What can now be done on home consoles will be possible on future handhelds and what is possible on current handhelds was not possible in past home consoles, so how is even possible to think to bind hardware power with portability? Are you telling me that in 2008 VC was an home console game and that since in the future(or even in the present imo) it will be possible on a handhled it will become a handheld game?

In theory, sure. People can play whatever on whatever, especially with suspend resume. You're absolutely correct - remote play, for example, proves that. But clearly different form factors often have different use cases and it is incumbent on a designer to keep this in mind. If the designer knows, for example, that the average play time on a console is (making this up) 1.3 hours but only 15 minutes on the sibling handheld, they'd be remiss not to take this into consideration when designing the experience.

Not to mention all the other differences (memory, controls, etc). VC2 did not have small mission areas simply because developers decided portable gamers needed 'bite size missions'. VC2 devs would almost certainly have loved to have the same sized levels, but they had to make them 'bite size' due to hardware limitations (most likely, memory). It goes hand in hand.

But yes, you're right -- they could likely put VC on the Vita and keep level size. But by the time a handheld can do that, the consoles can do levels 50x bigger.

The simple, most basic truth -- they are different devices with different form factors.

Consider the concept of the 'song' and 'album' and the multi-decade transition from Vinyl to MP3. With a record, people would put it on and then generally listened to the songs in order, for an extended period of time... popularizing the concept of the album (and in turn creating the 'concept album'). Nowadays, due to spotify and mp3 players and pcs, many people jump from song to song, artist to artist. This has in turned changed how artists view the album, and how they make music. There is no need to focus on an album as an 'hour journey of music' when you know the vast majority of the audience no longer listens to music like that (you can still do it, obviously, but the exception proves the rule).

You can not separate form from function, nor media from medium.

Any kind of distinction between games should be based on intrinsic characteristics of the structure of the games.

Why? It's clear that some games are designed for the mobile audience - short bursts of play.

Likewise, it's clear that some games are crippled by the device they are built for (be it power limitations, or control scheme). Think of all the PSP games that clearly would have benefited with a second analog -- isn't it fair to say that was a concession made to be on handheld at all? Why not call it what it is? A handheld game.

Not to mention, I know I prefer different genres on different devices. And while my tastes may or may not reflect everyone's, I'm sure Sony researches this and knows a lot of data on its audiences.

Is it really hard to imagine that, in general, people might like pretty, cinematic action games on a console, and slower number crunchy games (say, srpgs) on the more intimate handheld form factor? Or whatever the specifics of the research are.

And wouldn't good developers then design games to the strengths of each system and the desires of said audience? Which would then, by definition, create a schism between handheld and console games?

And yes the blame goes always to developers when they make a new game(ports are another thing), because they should make the best with all they have(hardware, people, money), if you want to make a Vita game(but this applies to any kind of hardware, home, handheld, mobile and everything else) you should first know what Vita can do,

How can you say the bolded in one breath, then argue that we should not differentiate between games on handheld vs. console in the other?

I mean, the vita is 'designed' for the hand and portability -- touch screen, backpad, gyro, 2 triggers. If you design to those features, you're making a 'handheld' game.

if you plan to do Witcher 3-like game on Vita you can't blame Vita because you can't do it or calling the game "home" for this reason, if you make that Witcher 3-like game with PS1 graphics it will probably run on Vita but no one would probably buy it, so it's all about making the right choices, like not making that witcher 3-like game on Vita at all but an original rpg designed specifically for Vita.

If borderlands 2 Vita had PS1 graphics(just an example) it would probably have been a native res 60fps 1:1 port, but no one would have bought borderlands 2 with PS1 graphics so developers preferred to sacrifice other aspects for better graphics, it's all about choices, not about a supposed handheld/home nature of a game.

That's really got nothing to do with it, though. You couldn't design a PS4 game for the PS1/2/3 either. That's a given, and not really relevant to the conversation.

You are putting 100% of the blame on the dev if something goes wrong during development, and the fact is you can have extremely 'sane' and reasonable expectations (no 'Witcher 3 on vita') but discover late in development that the hardware simply can't handle it for obscure reasons and it's not always the fault of the developers.

Again, just because everything seems reasonable for a device on paper does not mean you won't run into major roadblocks due to the device or engine. You can't always blame the dev for this.

If a game is not going to run on Vita then it should be cancelled or developed on a more powerful console unless acceptable downgrades can make it run perfectly on Vita.

That's wildly unrealistic and would cause developers to lose their jobs and companies to shutter their windows. It's not how the development process should, could, or ever would work.

Any hardware has its limits, but they have nothing to do with the handheld/home games dinstinction.

Again:
People use devices with different form factors differently.
A good designer should take these different use cases into consideration.
Therefore, a good designer will make design distinctions between a game created from the ground up for handheld vs. a game created from the ground up for console/tv.

This won't affect every game, or every genre to the same degree.

It really is that simple.
 

Li Kao

Member
Ok, I could see myself buying an used PS3. Never though I would say that, as like many I want my hardwares brand new, but I came across an used one from a trusted seller at 50 bucks.
Even if it breaks, at that price I could still buy 3 other PS3 before attaining the retail price of a new one. And that's speaking about the ugly one, every seller of the old slim I found have perfectly understood how desirable the model is. Insane pricing.
 

SerTapTap

Member
Ok, I could see myself buying an used PS3. Never though I would say that, as like many I want my hardwares brand new, but I came across an used one from a trusted seller at 50 bucks.
Even if it breaks, at that price I could still buy 3 other PS3 before attaining the retail price of a new one. And that's speaking about the ugly one, every seller of the old slim I found have perfectly understood how desirable the model is. Insane pricing.

Only used consoles I would be extremely leery about are the first gen Xbox 360 and PS3 models since both are basically ticking timebombs. As long as the unit is in good physical shape a used PS3 slim is probably fine.
 

antibolo

Banned
I think one should always go for a brand new console as long as they are still being manufactured. Late lifespan consoles are reliable as fuck and will last you nearly forever, they are a good investment.
 

Massa

Member
Only used consoles I would be extremely leery about are the first gen Xbox 360 and PS3 models since both are basically ticking timebombs. As long as the unit is in good physical shape a used PS3 slim is probably fine.

I'd avoid the first revision of the slim (CECH-20xx), but anything 21xx or newer should be fine. The first slim had a 65nm RSX and it gets quite hot and loud.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Of course. But you don't always know the exact limitations of your platform or your engine at design time. I mean, sure, you know what it says on paper, but until you're pushing pixels and loading actual assets into memory and running everything through your engine, you're throwing coins in a fountain hoping you're not going to run into any major issues.

I must be misunderstanding this question. Clearly the form factor size of a device has everything to do with power -- it affects the amount of space you have for your innards, heat dispersion issues, battery size. Not to mention important, but non-power related issues (lack of 4 triggers on vita, easy example).

Simply designing for 2 triggers instead of 4 is a 'concession' to current portability requirements on the Vita. Or designing a third person action game (say, GTA) around 1 analog stick during PSP's era is a concession to portability.

In theory, sure. People can play whatever on whatever, especially with suspend resume. You're absolutely correct - remote play, for example, proves that. But clearly different form factors often have different use cases and it is incumbent on a designer to keep this in mind. If the designer knows, for example, that the average play time on a console is (making this up) 1.3 hours but only 15 minutes on the sibling handheld, they'd be remiss not to take this into consideration when designing the experience.

Not to mention all the other differences (memory, controls, etc). VC2 did not have small mission areas simply because developers decided portable gamers needed 'bite size missions'. VC2 devs would almost certainly have loved to have the same sized levels, but they had to make them 'bite size' due to hardware limitations (most likely, memory). It goes hand in hand.

But yes, you're right -- they could likely put VC on the Vita and keep level size. But by the time a handheld can do that, the consoles can do levels 50x bigger.

The simple, most basic truth -- they are different devices with different form factors.

Consider the concept of the 'song' and 'album' and the multi-decade transition from Vinyl to MP3. With a record, people would put it on and then generally listened to the songs in order, for an extended period of time... popularizing the concept of the album (and in turn creating the 'concept album'). Nowadays, due to spotify and mp3 players and pcs, many people jump from song to song, artist to artist. This has in turned changed how artists view the album, and how they make music. There is no need to focus on an album as an 'hour journey of music' when you know the vast majority of the audience no longer listens to music like that (you can still do it, obviously, but the exception proves the rule).

You can not separate form from function, nor media from medium.

Why? It's clear that some games are designed for the mobile audience - short bursts of play.

Likewise, it's clear that some games are crippled by the device they are built for (be it power limitations, or control scheme). Think of all the PSP games that clearly would have benefited with a second analog -- isn't it fair to say that was a concession made to be on handheld at all? Why not call it what it is? A handheld game.

Not to mention, I know I prefer different genres on different devices. And while my tastes may or may not reflect everyone's, I'm sure Sony researches this and knows a lot of data on its audiences.

Is it really hard to imagine that, in general, people might like pretty, cinematic action games on a console, and slower number crunchy games (say, srpgs) on the more intimate handheld form factor? Or whatever the specifics of the research are.

And wouldn't good developers then design games to the strengths of each system and the desires of said audience? Which would then, by definition, create a schism between handheld and console games?

How can you say the bolded in one breath, then argue that we should not differentiate between games on handheld vs. console in the other?

That's really got nothing to do with it, though. You couldn't design a PS4 game for the PS1/2/3 either. That's a given, and not really relevant to the conversation.

You are putting 100% of the blame on the dev if something goes wrong during development, and the fact is you can have extremely 'sane' and reasonable expectations (no 'Witcher 3 on vita') but discover late in development that the hardware simply can't handle it for obscure reasons and it's not always the fault of the developers.

Again, just because everything seems reasonable for a device on paper does not mean you won't run into major roadblocks due to the device or engine. You can't always blame the dev for this.

That's wildly unrealistic and would cause developers to lose their jobs and companies to shutter their windows. It's not how the development process should, could, or ever would work.

Again:
People use devices with different form factors differently.
A good designer should take these different use cases into consideration.
Therefore, a good designer will make design distinctions between a game created from the ground up for handheld vs. a game created from the ground up for console/tv.

It really is that simple.
Old home consoles had just a directional cross and few button, obviously you cannot play anything 3d on it, while with Vita you can play 3d easily, does this make 3d games "handheld" games?

The input argument is no different from power, it evolves exactly like power, today's handhelds have more inputs than old home consoles, so it has no sense to bind the definition of a game on something that is not constant in time, it's always about games that are designed for the device they run on vs the ones that are not, period.

Even on tablets any game could be made because inputs doesn't need to be physical, we prefer buttons for obvious reasons but today's kids are growing with virtual controls and i'm sure they don't have big problems with them, in fact there is any kind of game on tablets.

About battery ... even the worse tablet lasts a pair of hours while playing, there's no need of "bite sized" levels, everyone would like a device with a long battery life, but playing games on tablets and smartphones wouldn't be so popular if battery life was really that important :p

The fact that most tablet games are "bite-sized" means nothing, look at monster hunter, people take it as an example of "handheld" game just because it has success on handhelds, but monster hunter is the exact opposite of what people call "handheld" game, no short levels, fights can lasts really long, it has complex controls and so on, not even people know what a handheld game is, because there are no handheld games!

Nintendo handhelds were always the winners and since they were always a lot behind home console people learned to think that handheld game means simpler game, but that's clearly not the truth.

About developers ...i agree that you may never know at 100% what an hardware can do and accidents can always occur, but before you start you need to get a safe idea of what an hardware can do, if the idea is lower then truth you can improve the game, if it's too high then some little downgrades should do the trick, but if you start with a totally wrong idea of what an hardware can do then it's just your fault.

Don't you agree that it would be better to pass some days or even some weeks to guess the capabilities of an hardware and design the game around them instead of just starting making the game and then passing weeks trying to optimize it?
It is known that the earlier the changes during development the easier, faster, cheaper and more effective they are.
 

Shinriji

Member
How's the PSX ver. of Galaxy Fight?

On a stock PS1, the loading times could make anyone insane, but I believe that could be way better on a Vita with faster loading on. Missing frames of animation as well, but gameplay was mostly the same. If you tolerate the other SNK PS1 ports, Galaxy Fight isn't the worst of the bunch. And the AST of Galaxy Fight is pretty nice.
 

SerTapTap

Member
I'd avoid the first revision of the slim (CECH-20xx), but anything 21xx or newer should be fine. The first slim had a 65nm RSX and it gets quite hot and loud.

Huh, didn't know they had changed that much even within the slim. Now I wonder which I have, it's less loud than the 360 by a fair but but certainly not silent. Quieter than the fat one though

I think one should always go for a brand new console as long as they are still being manufactured. Late lifespan consoles are reliable as fuck and will last you nearly forever, they are a good investment.

Until last gen I never had a problem with launch day units and many consoles made it without any visible iterations to speak of
 

Shizuka

Member
Does anyone know if Game UK charge at full when you make a pre-order, if it's an pre-authorization that'll be lifted after a couple of days or if they charge when they ship the game?
 

Shizuka

Member
Sounds like it. Can't imagine what else it would be, didn't the game do poorly? Was certainly poorly received.

It'll be a Vita or PS4 game, or both, that much is certain. The game was the highest-selling NIS game not called Disgaea from the past couple of years in Japan, it did really well, even if they intended for the game to sell even better than it did.
 

autoduelist

Member
Old home consoles had just a directional cross and few button, obviously you cannot play anything 3d on it, while with Vita you can play 3d easily, does this make 3d games "handheld" games?

Definitions change over time. That doesn't make them irrelevant. Certainly as handhelds grow in power we expect more from them. But at the same time, consoles grow in power too so we expect more from them as well.

The input argument is no different from power, it evolves exactly like power, today's handhelds have more inputs than old home consoles, so it has no sense to bind the definition of a game on something that is not constant in time, it's always about games that are designed for the device they run on vs the ones that are not, period.

I still don't understand how you can say the bolded in one breath and then claim there is no distinction between handheld and console. I mean, you're effectively saying there -is- a distinction here, and you've said it before in other ways as well.

Technology gets better over time. For example, over time engines have gotten faster. But just because passenger cars can now go as fast as early race cars doesn't mean we get rid of the distinction altogether.

Even on tablets any game could be made because inputs doesn't need to be physical, we prefer buttons for obvious reasons but today's kids are growing with virtual controls and i'm sure they don't have big problems with them, in fact there is any kind of game on tablets.

Of course you can put any game on a handheld if you change the inputs enough. Agreed. But you can also design 'touch' games like Flight Control that are inherently based on traditionally handheld features.

Entire genres of games were born due to touch controls (ios). Not recognizing this simply because you can also port a 'non-mobile' game to ios makes no sense. If someone says 'mobile game' I know exactly what they mean, even if a mobile device can also play FFVII or famous board games.

About battery ... even the worse tablet lasts a pair of hours while playing, there's no need of "bite sized" levels, everyone would like a device with a long battery life, but playing games on tablets and smartphones wouldn't be so popular if battery life was really that important :p

Bite sized levels aren't generally because of battery length. I've never said that and I'm not sure anyone did.

Bite sized levels in handheld games are due to two pressures:

1) Users are more likely to want to pick up and play a game (think doing a level or 3 of angry birds). This affects different genres to different degrees. It doesn't have to affect every game, but certainly, it does enough to make it a noticeable phenomena.
2) Memory/performance constraints. Again, you can design a platforming level that lasts 20 minutes and realize it performs at 15fps. You reduce texture quality and get it to 20fps. So finally you cut the level in half, and bang, you're at 35fps. So now you raise your texture level back up to what you originally wanted and lock it down.

Pretending #2 doesn't exist doesn't make it go away. Heck, the same thing can affect console games too -- the size and draw distance of open world games, for example, or the number of different cars in GTA at any one time. But they particularly affect handheld games because at any given time, the modern handheld is far less powerful than the modern console. Thus we 'notice' bite-sized decisions more.

The fact that most tablet games are "bite-sized" means nothing, look at monster hunter, people take it as an example of "handheld" game just because it has success on handhelds, but monster hunter is the exact opposite of what people call "handheld" game, no short levels, fights can lasts really long, it has complex controls and so on, not even people know what a handheld game is, because there are no handheld games!

You can't say a major distinction menas 'nothing'... it's why people make the distinction in the first place! And while I've never played MH, I have played SS... there is a reason you are in a relatively small arena with a bunch of mobs that look similar and a big boss.

Nintendo handhelds were always the winners and since they were always a lot behind home console people learned to think that handheld game means simpler game, but that's clearly not the truth.

I don't know how you reach this conclusion. The PS4 is fantastically more powerful than a Vita, and developers can do much more on a PS4 than they could ever do on a Vita -- from draw distance, to destructibility, to number of enemies, to diversity of textures, size of levels, etc.

It's silly not to recognize this, and once we do recognize it's silly not to call it what it is.


Don't you agree that it would be better to pass some days or even some weeks to guess the capabilities of an hardware and design the game around them instead of just starting making the game and then passing weeks trying to optimize it?
It is known that the earlier the changes during development the easier, faster, cheaper and more effective they are.

Well, of course you do your best to aim realistically. But you're acting as if it's one or the other, and it's both. No matter how much you plan, I guarantee you're still going to be "passing weeks trying to optimize it". In fact, it's more likely months. It's not like every game that performs badly had pie in the sky expectations -- it's just that once you're pushing pixels to the screen all those ideas you had on paper don't always work out, and it's not always your fault.

You're acting as if games that perform badly didn't have design periods. Of course they did. And of course 99% of the time the developers wanted the game to perform well... but either their skills or the platform
both in combination is usually the answer
wasn't up to it. But you can't just 'cancel' the game you just spent a year(s) on, and at some point you can't afford to keep working on it. That's the hard truth.

When tetris doesn't perform well on the Vita, yes, it's absolutely the developers fault. But some ambitious game that drops to 25 a lot? It gets a lot trickier to assign blame, since we don't know what calculations are causing the problem and what concessions the developer would have to make to fix it. They determined, based on either knowledge of the issue, or time and money, that it was time to release it. Some publishers abuse this (Ubi) but sometimes? It's just how it is.
 

Chuy

Member
How much different is the soul sacrifice demo compared to soul sacrifice delta game? I fully plan on getting delta eventually but wanted a feel for how the game plays before i buy it.
 
Top Bottom