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[wapplew]

But there are games with deep gameplay, unique environments, and compelling narratives on mobile. It's not just stupid time wasters. There are short games and there are games with hours of content. Every genre you can think of is on there: rhythm, RTS, TBS, action, horror, racing, adventure games, puzzlers, RPGs, point n click, interactive fiction and text adventure, shmups and shooters, etc. It's just as diverse as PC or console

But how do you make PES on mobile without water down the control or even change genre? Some experience just can't be replaced.
Publisher go all mobile means we can't have that PES or whatever made for controller ever, that's a good reason to get mad.

 

[Cavalier]

Recently an 8+ hour survival horror game released on mobile. It even had some voice actors from Silent Hill 2.



The frustrating thing about this whole thing is that Konami is going to go for bottom-of-the-barrel F2P shit rather than making good games, which indie devs have shown is completely possible to do

Holy shit. Thanks for the notice. I know what I'm playing later tonight.

BTW, is there a good site that reviews proper mobile games like this?

The tactile interface of touch screen allows for experiences that couldn't work anywhere else. The Room may be on PC, but playing that with mouse and keyboard is like playing an FPS with a gamepad; you just lose something, that immersive element that the direct 1:1 control brings

Or a narrative adventure like PRY, a story of a vet suffering from PTSD, slowly losing his sight. Where you pry open his words and notes to see inner thoughts and feelings. Later, when he goes blind, the text becomes Braille, so you must trace you fingers along the dots to read the text

Where can I read about more mobile games like this?

 

[derfybzh]

I don't care about mobile so Konami is dead to me. It makes me less sad than when Sega was killed by Sony. Japan Big companies are shadows of their former selves .

• Capcom keeps recycling licences to death,
• Sega is dead
• Konami goes mobile
• Nintendo is not the Nintendo we used to love years ago
• Square don't push new licences like they used to in the PSOne area

So we rely on From Software and Platinium Games now . Very small offers as those two studios are pretty small.

 

[Opiate]

Okay, you have to understand just because you say it's not different doesn't necessarily mean you're right lol.

Of course; I have to offer good explanations. As do you. I did offer good explanations.

Console versions of those card games/endless runners/Angry Birds are playable, even if it's not ideal.

That's my point.

A game like MGSV is completely unplayable on a mobile platform.

Possibly, but many RTS games are unplayable on consoles. So is World of Warcraft. These are very similar issues.

Not that that even matters, because like I said (and you ignored), the problem here is not that mobile games exist, but that it appears that Konami will only be making games that a mobile platform can handle. Since most of the games people like are not possible on mobile, those games are disappearing.

Yes, I think it's a two pronged problem; first, mobile gaming is very profitable overall. That explains why Konami is ramping up development there. Second, console gaming is not very profitable overall. That part explains why Konami (and others) have been migrating steadily away from consoles for quite some time.

This isn't an issue I ignored. It's part of my PC example: when a great PC exclusive is "infected" by a console port, something is lost. Sometimes, the combat or scope of the game has to be adjusted to make it palatable or possible on consoles. Of course the reality is that's totally fine, because the world doesn't revolve around me, and the games aren't "infected," they're just changed. It's disappointing for someone like me, but it's understandable, and not something I get angry about because I'm an adult and I recognize that I am not the center of the universe.

You would have had a point a few days ago before this news broke, but if this statement means future console-built games from Konami are unlikely, or rather that we will be unlikely to see console games from Konami that aren't also possible on mobile (which I would argue is a fair interpretation), your comparison goes out the window. I guess that interpretation is up for debate, but I don't know why a company would continue spending millions on something they now consider part of the "past", especially a company that clearly isn't particularly fond of the fans or industry that surround its "Digitial Entertainment" division. I get what you're trying to say, but this is something different we're talking about in this thread.

Again, I think it's a double whammy of 1) Mobile is actually profitable and 2) Consoles generally aren't. If the second part weren't true, we'd still be seeing more console games, I suspect. The fact that mobile is very profitable cannot by itself drive long established companies away from consoles.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I don't care about mobile so Konami is dead to me. It makes me less sad than when Sega was killed by Sony. Japan Big companies are shadows of their former selves .

• Capcom keeps recycling licences to death,
• Sega is dead
• Konami goes mobile
• Nintendo is not the Nintendo we used to love years ago
• Square don't push new licences like they used to in the PSOne area

So we rely on From Software and Platinium Games now . Very small offers as those two studios are pretty small.

I'd argue Nintendo is pretty close to the Nintendo we loved years ago. Baffling business decisions, outdated technology, reliance on updating IPs, and above all else solid games that keep people coming back despite anything else.

If I had to pick something that seemed a little weird, it's how content is being tied to Amiibos now, but is that any different than all the peripherals of the past? The E-Reader?

Of course; I have to offer good explanations. As do you. I did offer good explanations.



That's my point.



Possibly, but many RTS games are unplayable on consoles. So is World of Warcraft. These are very similar issues.



Yes, I think it's a two pronged problem; first, mobile gaming is very profitable overall. That explains why Konami is ramping up development there. Second, console gaming is not very profitable overall. That part explains why Konami (and others) have been migrating steadily away from consoles for quite some time.

This isn't an issue I ignored. It's part of my PC example: when a great PC exclusive is "infected" by a console port, something is lost. Sometimes, the combat or scope of the game has to be adjusted to make it palatable or possible on consoles. Of course the reality is that's totally fine, because the world doesn't revolve around me, and the games aren't "infected," they're just changed. It's disappointing for someone like me, but it's understandable, and not something I get angry about because I'm an adult and I recognize that I am not the center of the universe.



Again, I think it's a double whammy of 1) Mobile is actually profitable and 2) Consoles generally aren't. If the second part weren't true, we'd still be seeing more console games, I suspect. The fact that mobile is very profitable cannot by itself drive long established companies away from consoles.

Oh, I'd agree that it makes perfect sense for Konami to do this haha, we're definitely thinking along the same lines there.

Are there any good examples of the PC original being "infected" or whatever because of a console port, or because of consoles in general? Like MKX isn't a game that would work on mobile in its console state (I would say PC as well but that doesn't work at all lol), so the mobile version is something completely different and better suited for mobile platforms. I don't think that bothers anyone too much, because even if you hate it and don't like it or whatever, you can just play "real" Mortal Kombat on your console.
The fear would be that in this case with Konami is that if the mobile version was created first, the console version of MKX (or in Konami's case, MGS6, Castlevania, whatever) is a port of the mobile version, since making the "full experience" is deemed unprofitable. Has a shift that significant ever happened to a legacy PC games developer before? Like obviously CivRev is dumbed down from Civ, but they also made Civ5.

And of course this probably isn't something an adult should be mad about, but it's definitely something a fan of those games could be disappointed about, even if it does make sense. I'm not sure if reminding a disappointed person that what Konami is doing makes business sense is realy necessary, since they probably already know that and it doesn't change the fact that it's disappointing

 

[More_Badass]

Very true. I wasn't trying to say that PC/console games are better or more diverse than mobile games but that the mobile platform (the controls, the file size, the pricing) usually forced devs to re-think the scale and the amount of content and mechanics that these games had. And sometimes what you want it that scale, that immersion and that amount of content, despite how often games are criticized for being bloated. Sometimes you do want to get lost in Skyrim or Mass Effect, sometimes the fat is why you enjoy a game so much.

True, but you have devs bringing game like Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Banner Saga, Door Kickers, and Prison Architect to mobile. So it's not like cutting the fat is a must. It's possible to make mobile games with that kind of depth, because the PC ports work fine. Sure, I wouldnt want to play a 3rd person shooter on mobile. But an isometric Fallout or Ironclad Tactics or Final Fantasy Tactics or FTL or Limbo work fine.

Sadly we won't be seeing Konami using that AAA muscle to make mobile-exclusive games that would be comparable to a Banner Saga or BG. They're going to go for the low hanging fruit instead

 

[Mihos]

I just want to highlight this as a great post and response to this news.

It's completely fine to have personal preferences. Do you prefer console games to mobile games? No problem! I don't personally like either one very much, and that's okay too.

It's another thing entirely to act like any company which pursues mobile are stupid dumb dumb head jerks who will get their comeuppance because they have offended the Gods of "real" gaming and will be punished for it. It's fine to prefer console games, and it's fine to be sad when a console publisher migrates to a platform you personally have less interest in, but stop acting like your personal preferences represent some divine truth, and that others with different preferences are unwashed masses who don't understand what true gaming is. Again, I'd point you to how PC gamers sometimes treat console gamers as a comparison here. That elitism can be obnoxious, can't it? I agree. Don't turn around and do the same to mobile.

Synchronicity has done a good job of expressing a perfectly valid position: he understands that mobile is where the money is, and he doesn't fault a large, public company for pursuing it. Still, it's sad for him and his personal tastes. Totally appropriate perspective, thanks Synchronicity.

This is more like taking your favorite sit-down local restaurant and seeing it turned into a McDonalds. We already have plenty of fast food places, but seemingly less and less great restaurants. I get they want that McDonalds money... and I might even hit the drive through once in a awhile, but it still sucks on every level

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Recently an 8+ hour survival horror game released on mobile. It even had some voice actors from Silent Hill 2.



The frustrating thing about this whole thing is that Konami is going to go for bottom-of-the-barrel F2P shit rather than making good games, which indie devs have shown is completely possible to do

Yea, Forgotten Memories. Has Guy Cihi (James form SH2). Should be coming to Steam here sooner or later as well.

 

[Opiate]

This is more like taking your favorite sit-down local restaurant and seeing it turned into a McDonalds. We already have plenty of fast food places, but seemingly less and less great restaurants. I get they want that McDonalds money... and I might even hit the drive through once in a awhile, but it still sucks on every level

Implicit in this suggestion is that mobile games are "lesser" experiences for hoi polloi while console games are fine dining for connoisseurs.

I will again point out that this is exactly the same attitude that PC gamers often take towards console gamers. I'm actually fine either way, as long as you are consistent in your application. Do you feel that console gamers can look down on mobile gamers for preferring a simpler, more convenient experience at the cost of technical horse power and and complexity? Fine, then you should have no problem with PC gamers sneering derisively at console gamers, in turn. Do you feel that PC gamer elitism is obnoxious and inappropriate, and that it's totally fine for someone to prefer the relative convenience and simplicity that consoles offer? Okay, that's good, but then you should feel the same about mobile gamers and games, too.

 

[More_Badass]

Holy shit. Thanks for the notice. I know what I'm playing later tonight.

BTW, is there a good site that reviews proper mobile games like this?



Where can I read about more mobile games like this?

Somewhat biased, but the monthly IOS threads are a good place to start; the OPs have recommended games and links to past threads
Here's the link to the May 2015 thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1040398
We're always happy to recommend stuff

This thread also, which I really need to update, has 200+ recommended games across various genres
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=921676

The site I follow the most often is Pocket Gamer; it's a general mobile/handheld review site, but they cover a lot more interesting indies than some other sites.
http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/

As well as Pocket Tactics; that site is mainly focused on strategic and tactical games
http://www.pockettactics.com/

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

They're going to go for the low hanging fruit instead

Personally I would be very happy with a Gradius or Parodius collection in the same vein as the Raiden collection, which works very well once you become accustomed to a shmup with touch controls.

 

[Cavalier]

Somewhat biased, but the monthly IOS threads are a good place to start; the OPs have recommended games and links to past threads
Here's the link to the May 2015 thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1040398
We're always happy to recommend stuff

This thread also, which I need really need to update, has 200+ recommended games across various genres
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=921676

The site I follow the most often is Pocket Gamer; it's a general mobile/handheld review site, but they cover a lot more interesting indies than some other sites.
http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/

As well as Pocket Tactics; that site is mainly focused on strategic and tactical games
http://www.pockettactics.com/

Ah so this is where all the varieties of games have gone to. This reminds me of the PC gaming from the 90's. Didn't think mobile games have evolved to this level... Thanks for the recommendations!

 

[Mihos]

Implicit in this suggestion is that mobile games are "lesser" experiences for hoi polloi while console games are fine dining for connoisseurs.

I will again point out that this is exactly the same attitude that PC gamers often take towards console gamers. I'm actually fine either way, as long as you are consistent in your application. Do you feel that console gamers can look down on mobile gamers for preferring a simpler, more convenient experience at the cost of power and and complexity? Fine, then you should have no problem with PC gamers sneering derisively at console gamers, in turn. Do you feel that PC gamer elitism is obnoxious and inappropriate, and that it's totally fine for someone to prefer the relative convenience and simplicity that consoles offer? Okay, that's good, but then you should feel the same about mobile gamers being treated as lesser by console gamers, in turn.

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying. If losing Silent Hill on a big screen with surround sound and replacing it with something maybe sort of Silent Hill like on a 4 inch screen with Bluetooth headphones and a control scheme that requires you to cover up the part of your 4 inch screen, disabling messages since it is after all, your primary communication device... and expect it to be an even tradeoff because hey, 'it's convenient'. Then really, there is no common foundation for me to explain further.

This isn't a question of fidelity or console wars, it is the question of one thing ceasing to exist and being replaced by something else because the target platform doesn't' allow for it.

 

[More_Badass]

But how do you make PES on mobile without water down the control or even change genre? Some experience just can't be replaced.
Publisher go all mobile means we can't have that PES or whatever made for controller ever, that's a good reason to get mad.

Either you build your ground up for mobile, like Hitman Go. It took the core essence of the series (the methodical stealth-puzzle element) and made a game that's true to Hitman, with disguises, and dual Silverballers, and sniper rifles, all with a lovely tabletop board game aesthetic.

Or you simply the gameplay, like with the upcoming Submerged, which has no combat, only exploration and climbing/puzzles. It's releasing on mobile, PS4, and Xbox One

We do have Active Soccer, which has the whole package of 800 teams, weather conditions, cross-platform online MP, and a complete career mode

But perhaps a different take like the PC game Football Tactics would work better

 

[More_Badass]

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying. If losing Silent Hill on a big screen with surround sound and replacing it with something maybe sort of Silent Hill like on a 4 inch screen with Bluetooth headphones and a control scheme that requires you to cover up the part of your 4 inch screen, disabling messages since it is after all, your primary communication device... and expect it to be an even tradeoff because hey, 'it's convenient'. Then really, there is no common foundation for me to explain further.

This isn't a question of fidelity or console wars, it is the question of one thing ceasing to exist and being replaced by something else because the target platform doesn't' allow for it.

God, every time I see 4-inch screen or "phone". iPad and iPad Mini are the ideal devices. 9.7 and 7.9 inch screens.

There's also this and similar accessories

You must have this idea that everyone's hunched over these little screens, squinting to see.

 

[Opiate]

Yes, this is exactly what I am saying. If losing Silent Hill on a big screen with surround sound and replacing it with something maybe sort of Silent Hill like on a 4 inch screen with Bluetooth headphones and a control scheme that requires you to cover up the part of your 4 inch screen, disabling messages since it is after all, your primary communication device... and expect it to be an even tradeoff because hey, 'it's convenient'. Then really, there is no common foundation for me to explain further.

This isn't a question of fidelity or console wars, it is the question of one thing ceasing to exist and being replaced by something else because the target platform doesn't' allow for it.

That's fine, but I hope you don't complain when high end PC gamers sneer derisively at the games you play and the fidelity and complexity they offer and bemoan every PC game that is nerfed or altered for a console port to appeal to the console kiddies.

 

[DryvBy]

Implicit in this suggestion is that mobile games are "lesser" experiences for hoi polloi while console games are fine dining for connoisseurs.

I will again point out that this is exactly the same attitude that PC gamers often take towards console gamers. I'm actually fine either way, as long as you are consistent in your application. Do you feel that console gamers can look down on mobile gamers for preferring a simpler, more convenient experience at the cost of technical horse power and and complexity? Fine, then you should have no problem with PC gamers sneering derisively at console gamers, in turn. Do you feel that PC gamer elitism is obnoxious and inappropriate, and that it's totally fine for someone to prefer the relative convenience and simplicity that consoles offer? Okay, that's good, but then you should feel the same about mobile gamers and games, too.

I'm confused about this. What exactly are some of the outstanding video games that have come from mobile? Because I've yet to play something that really grabs me and keeps me there. Or, in other words, I don't think I want gaming heading into the direction of Puzzles and Dragons of WWE card games. They're fun but it's not something I'm skipping PC/console gaming to play at home.

I don't think this is an form of elitism to think that mobile gaming is a quick cash grab rather than an investment in a franchise or world that's worth playing through. There's so much garbage on mobile that's exactly nothing more than rip-off games or F2P models that maybe I'm just missing something.

edit: Kairosoft games are terrific time wasters though. I'd recommend those to anyone.

 

[More_Badass]

I'm confused about this. What exactly are some of the outstanding video games that have come from mobile? Because I've yet to play something that really grabs me and keeps me there. Or, in other words, I don't think I want gaming heading into the direction of Puzzles and Dragons of WWE card games. They're fun but it's not something I'm skipping PC/console gaming to play at home.

I don't think this is an form of elitism to think that mobile gaming is a quick cash grab rather than an investment in a franchise or world that's worth playing through. There's so much garbage on mobile that's exactly nothing more than rip-off games or F2P models that maybe I'm just missing something.

Look on this page and my posts on the last page

 

[Opiate]

I'm confused about this. What exactly are some of the outstanding video games that have come from mobile? Because I've yet to play something that really grabs me and keeps me there. Or, in other words, I don't think I want gaming heading into the direction of Puzzles and Dragons of WWE card games. They're fun but it's not something I'm skipping PC/console gaming to play at home.

I don't think this is an form of elitism to think that mobile gaming is a quick cash grab rather than an investment in a franchise or world that's worth playing through. There's so much garbage on mobile that's exactly nothing more than rip-off games or F2P models that maybe I'm just missing something.

Look at what More_Badass has posted. You may not personally like those games -- that's fine -- but that's different than "there are no good games."

I think you are confusing your personal preferences with objective reality. I want to emphasize that it's okay to be elitist, as long as you are consistent. Let's say you volunteer 10 hours a week to help the homeless, and you have a friend who never volunteers to help anyone. If we hold all other variables equal, here (humans are complex, I know), is it okay to feel like a better person than he is? Well, possibly. But if you do that, then you also have to accept that someone who volunteers for 20 hours is even better than you are. What you don't get to do is look down with a haughty eyebrow on your 0 volunteer hours friend then turn around and complain when the 20-hours guy looks down on you.

 

[Wanderer5]

Recently an 8+ hour survival horror game released on mobile. It even had some voice actors from Silent Hill 2.



The frustrating thing about this whole thing is that Konami is going to go for bottom-of-the-barrel F2P shit rather than making good games, which indie devs have shown is completely possible to do

What game is it? Looks good from those shots.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

What game is it? Looks good from those shots.

Forgotten Memories

 

[More_Badass]

What game is it? Looks good from those shots.

Forgotten Memories
http://www.forgottenmemoriesthegame.com/

 

[Mihos]

That's fine, but I hope you don't complain when high end PC gamers sneer derisively at the games you play and the fidelity and complexity they offer and bemoan every PC game that is nerfed or altered for a console port to appeal to the console kiddies.

I don't... in fact, when I play PC games, it's not am a graphics whore, it is usually because I am not. I am playing stuff like older isometric RPGs and things that just don't exist on my consoles. My favorite version of Star Control 2 is on the 3DO, even though I have it on PC and my Android devices. But you have to at least concede that there are a few fundamental differences between mobile gaming and large form gaming.

God, every time I see 4-inch screen or "phone". iPad and iPad Mini are the ideal devices. 9.7 and 7.9 inch screens.

There's also this and similar accessories

You must have this idea that everyone's hunched over these little screens, squinting to see.

I actually have a large collection of these devices, along with every other handheld you can think of. They are not the same thing as the consoles and PC. Even when they are, like my nomad, we are talking about the version for the console being gone, and only the mobile version existing.

 

[Wanderer5]

Ah I see. Think I look into the WiiU or PC version whenever those come out.

 

[Opiate]

I don't... in fact, when I play PC games, it's not am a graphics whore, it is usually because I am not. I am playing stuff like older isometric RPGs and things that just don't exist on my consoles. My favorite version of Star Control 2 is on the 3DO, even though I have it on PC and my Android devices..

Okay, at least you are consistent. No real argument with your postiion at that point.

But you have to at least concede that there are a few fundamental differences between mobile gaming and large form gaming.

There are. And there are differences between high end PC gaming and console gaming.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

What exactly are some of the outstanding video games that have come from mobile?

I consider The Room to be an absolutely superb title that "my gaming life" has only been enriched by having played, and it would absolutely not work anywhere near as well on anything but a touch device.

 

[iMerc]

ah well.
it really is one of those things that 'couldn't be helped'.

i don't like it as i love console gaming, but there's potentially lots of money to made in mobile with the right product. it's significantly less expensive than if they were to create console games, and they will be able to tap into a market that's immeasurably larger than the console market.

you can't really blame konami here, if you can look past your own person bias.
hate them for the kojima debacle if you want, but this business decision makes sense.

and for shame to the people who want them to 'go bankrupt' for sheer personal satisfaction.
seriously grow the fuck up.

 

[thundr51]

So..... No more Rumble Roses?

 

[TGO]

Never been more fitting.

 

[RPGCrazied]

ToraShiro, post if your okay. Anyway, after MGS V, probably be my last Konami game for a long time. Not supporting mobile games.

 

[More_Badass]

I don't... in fact, when I play PC games, it's not am a graphics whore, it is usually because I am not. I am playing stuff like older isometric RPGs and things that just don't exist on my consoles. My favorite version of Star Control 2 is on the 3DO, even though I have it on PC and my Android devices. But you have to at least concede that there are a few fundamental differences between mobile gaming and large form gaming.

Funny thing is that those games translate well to mobile. You won't see Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, KOTOR, FTL, and SpaceChem on consoles. But I can play them on my iPad

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

ah well.
it really is one of those things that 'couldn't be helped'.

there's potentially lots of money to made here with the right product. it's significantly less expensive than if they were to create console games, and they will be able to tap into a market that's immeasurably larger than the console market.

you can't really blame konami here, if you can look past your own person bias.
hate them for the kojima debacle if you want, but this business decision makes sense.

and for shame to the people who want them to 'go bankrupt'.
seriously grow the fuck up.

I can blame Konami in being such jerks about it and dunno if you can say "grow the fuck up" when their actions about the YT debacle seem to indicate the higher ups need to do it.

Funny thing is that those games translate well to mobile. You won't see Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, KOTOR, FTL, and SpaceChem on consoles. But I can play them on my iPad

KOTOR was in the Original Xbox. Also KOTOR II

 

[sciencerob]

I always liked Kojimas games so I will get MGS5. I suppose that will be my last Konami product though. I don't like mobile games and have no desire to play on my cell phone.

 

[Mihos]

Okay, at least you are consistent. No real argument with your postiion at that point.



There are. And there are differences between high end PC gaming and console gaming.

Well, to be fair... my initial response to all this would be to just leave something like my shield hooked up to one of the TVs permanently (or get the shield console)... then just treat it as a console.

But then you get crap like Square Enix not supporting controllers and having everything be portrait only... I fully expect any 'whatever the hell Metal Gear Becomes' to come with the same jank that prevents any form of out of pocket experience... basically going back to my base point... they tore down my restaurant..

 

[Mihos]

Funny thing is that those games translate well to mobile. You won't see Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, KOTOR, FTL, and SpaceChem on consoles. But I can play them on my iPad

Yeah, some of them ported pretty good in spite of the platform... not necessarily because if it. I am fine with all them existing. I would not be fine if that was the only version of them to ever exist.

 

[Situacao]

Implicit in this suggestion is that mobile games are "lesser" experiences for hoi polloi while console games are fine dining for connoisseurs.

I will again point out that this is exactly the same attitude that PC gamers often take towards console gamers. I'm actually fine either way, as long as you are consistent in your application. Do you feel that console gamers can look down on mobile gamers for preferring a simpler, more convenient experience at the cost of technical horse power and and complexity? Fine, then you should have no problem with PC gamers sneering derisively at console gamers, in turn. Do you feel that PC gamer elitism is obnoxious and inappropriate, and that it's totally fine for someone to prefer the relative convenience and simplicity that consoles offer? Okay, that's good, but then you should feel the same about mobile gamers and games, too.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. You apply the same principles when designing a game for PC or a console. I'm sure you've seen the term "PC/console" to describe these types of games. This term exists because these games are, well, the same. You can play a fighting game either on a console or a PC, and, graphical differences aside, it's gonna play exactly the same. Same with sports games, RPG's, racing games, platformers, etc. Everything plays the same because these games are all tailored to be played by the same demographic: people who have time and like to spend long sessions gaming.

When talking about mobile, you're talking about a completely different thing. "Mobile games" (and not every game on mobile is a "mobile game", as there are some who just offer a console/PC experience), are made to be enjoyed on short bursts, on a train, whatever. They're designed in a completely different way and provide a completely different experience from console/PC games. If Konami made a full-featured MGS 6/Castlevania/PES/Silent Hill for mobile, people wouldn't be making such a russ. The problem is that people are antecipating that Konami will be making a slimed-down version of these games, designed specifically to this platform.

And that, to the kind of persion who enjoys sitting for hours playing the biggest game ever, is a lesser experience.

 

[Impala26]

Recently an 8+ hour survival horror game released on mobile. It even had some voice actors from Silent Hill 2.


The frustrating thing about this whole thing is that Konami is going to go for bottom-of-the-barrel F2P shit rather than making good games, which indie devs have shown is completely possible to do

Yeah man.

Wasn't the Swedish team that made Amnesia: The Dark Descent only comprised of like fifteen people?

 

[More_Badass]

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. You apply the same principles when designing a game for PC or a console. I'm sure you've seen the term "PC/console" to describe these types of games. This term exists because these games are, well, the same. You can play a fighting game either on a console or a PC, and, graphical differences aside, it's gonna play exactly the same. Same with sports games, RPG's, racing games, platformers, etc. Everything plays the same because these games are all tailored to be played by the same demographic: people who have time and like to spend long sessions gaming.

When talking about mobile, you're talking about a completely different thing. "Mobile games" (and not every game on mobile is a "mobile game", as there are some who just offer a console/PC experience), are made to be enjoyed on short bursts, on a train, whatever.

Just like PC may have roguelikes or quick arcade games like Race The Sun that favor short playtimes, mobile games doesn't mean "made to be enjoyed in short bursts." There are games that are long form experiences, 2 hour narrative experiences, longer RPGs, etc. I sure as hell wouldn't play something like The Room or Device 6 on the train; those are games that you sit down, in bed or on sofa, put on headphones, and play for a hour or two.

 

[wapplew]

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. You apply the same principles when designing a game for PC or a console. I'm sure you've seen the term "PC/console" to describe these types of games. This term exists because these games are, well, the same. You can play a fighting game either on a console or a PC, and, graphical differences aside, it's gonna play exactly the same. Same with sports games, RPG's, racing games, platformers, etc. Everything plays the same because these games are all tailored to be played by the same demographic: people who have time and like to spend long sessions gaming.

When talking about mobile, you're talking about a completely different thing. "Mobile games" (and not every game on mobile is a "mobile game", as there are some who just offer a console/PC experience), are made to be enjoyed on short bursts, on a train, whatever. They're designed in a completely different way and provide a completely different experience from console/PC games. If Konami made a full-featured MGS 6/Castlevania/PES/Silent Hill for mobile, people wouldn't be making such a russ. The problem is that people are antecipating that Konami will be making a slimed-down version of these games, designed specifically to this platform.

And that, to the kind of persion who enjoys sitting for hours playing the biggest game ever, is a lesser experience.

I think he talked about PC games get "consolize" , PC gamer complaint about those games get water down,
like Diablo 3 ppl complaint about only 6 skills at a time, or how FF14 could have been fully open world if they don't have to consider about PS3.

 

[Jobbs]

Just when I thought I couldn't hate Konami more.

 

[SparkTR]

Are there any good examples of the PC original being "infected" or whatever because of a console port, or because of consoles in general? Like MKX isn't a game that would work on mobile in its console state (I would say PC as well but that doesn't work at all lol), so the mobile version is something completely different and better suited for mobile platforms. I don't think that bothers anyone too much, because even if you hate it and don't like it or whatever, you can just play "real" Mortal Kombat on your console.
The fear would be that in this case with Konami is that if the mobile version was created first, the console version of MKX (or in Konami's case, MGS6, Castlevania, whatever) is a port of the mobile version, since making the "full experience" is deemed unprofitable. Has a shift that significant ever happened to a legacy PC games developer before? Like obviously CivRev is dumbed down from Civ, but they also made Civ5.

Lots of examples there. Thief Deadly Shadows, Deus Ex Invisible War, Rainbow Six, Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Unreal Tournament 3, Ghost Recon, Dragon Age 2, Fear 2, The Longest Journey, Star Wars Obi Wan, Crysis 2, SupCom 2, Outcast, Drakan.

Major issues then were the insanely low RAM supply on the consoles (OGXbox, 360) that resulted in games with way smaller scope and simplified gameplay mechanics. The controller being less versatile than a M/KB, leading to game design changes, as well as terrible UIs were also big issues.

Almost literally what console gamers are complaining about now is what PC gamers were complaining about from 2003-2008.

 

[Opiate]

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. You apply the same principles when designing a game for PC or a console.

You absolutely do not do that. Almost every game I prefer would be hugely compromised on console.

I don't mean that some games can't be shared; they can. Then again, some games can be shared between PC and mobile, too -- Hearthstone is a game that comes readily to mind.

I'm sure you've seen the term "PC/console" to describe these types of games. This term exists because these games are, well, the same.

They aren't; I'm not sure where you're getting this. The release lists are vastly different from each other and only overlap in the "AAA" sphere where games have to be made for as many platforms as possible. As soon as mobile phones get up to technical snuff (which they are rapidly approaching), the games will be there, too.

Please don't act like consoles and PC are the same, because they aren't. If PCs did not exist, most of my favorite games would not, either. PCs offer more complex, deeper games, and that's what I prefer. You don't have to; I completely understand if someone prefers simplicity and convenience that a console offers, but it's not what I want. Dwarf Fortress isn't on consoles for a reason, and the same is true of games like Natural Selection and Eve Online.

 

[Situacao]

Just like PC may have roguelikes or quick arcade games like Race The Sun that favor short playtimes, mobile games doesn't mean "made to be enjoyed in short bursts." There are games that are long form experiences, 2 hour narrative experiences, longer RPGs, etc. I sure as hell wouldn't play something like The Room or Device 6 on the train; those are games that you sit down, in bed or on sofa, put on headphones, and play for a hour or two.

Exactly. Those are not mobile games. Those are games more akin to the PC/console experience of sitting on bed or sofa and playing for long sessions.

Also, do roguelikes really favor short playtimes? Yes, you die a lot and have to respawn many times, but you only truly advance in a roguelike if you spend your time on a longer session. This contrasts with a game like Crossy Road, where it doesn't really matter if you play for 5 minutes or two hours.

Again, if every game sold on mobile was like the ones you mentioned, it would be received greatly by gaming enthusiasts (and badly by the majority of the population). Just look at the App Store/Play Store top lists. We dread those games, but the majority of the population loves them. Konami used to make "our" games, but it seems that they want to make "their" games.

It's like Metallica and the Black Album all over again.

 

[Opiate]

Lots of examples there. Thief Deadly Shadows, Deus Ex Invisible War, Rainbow Six, Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Unreal Tournament 3, Ghost Recon, Dragon Age 2, Fear 2, The Longest Journey, Star Wars Obi Wan, Crysis 2, SupCom 2

Major issues then were the insanely low RAM supply on the consoles (OGXbox, 360) that resulted in games with way smaller scope and simplified gameplay mechanics. The controller being less versatile than a M/KB, leading to game design changes, as well as terrible UIs were also big issues.

Almost literally what console gamers are complaining about now is what PC gamers were complaining about from 2003-2008.

Don't forget RTS games of virtually all kinds, strategy games more broadly, and fast paced FPS that require precise aiming.

CS is technically on consoles, but there is a reason why it's so much more popular on PC; the type of mechanics required to play CS well just aren't very feasible with the less precise console controller.

 

[Mihos]

I think he talked about PC games get "consolize" , PC gamer complaint about those games get water down,
like Diablo 3 ppl complaint about only 6 skills at a time, or how FF14 could have been fully open world if they don't have to consider about PS3.

I can understand that to a point, I think the same thing when I see cross gen games come out. I think what Opiate was more concerned with is that people get, by choice or otherwise, associated personally with a platform/brand... then other people use the shortcomings of that platform to attack them personally. It happens to the point of when someone suggests that a game really isn't suited to a certain platform, even though it may work technically, it can be misconstrued as some kind of class warfare.

 

[More_Badass]

You absolutely do not do that. Almost every game I prefer would not be possible on console.

I don't mean that some games can't be shared; they can. Then again, some games can be shared between PC and mobile, too -- Hearthstone is a game that comes readily to mind.



They aren't; I'm not sure where you're getting this. The release lists are vastly different from each other and only overlap in the "AAA" sphere where games have to be made for as many platforms as possible.

Please don't act like consoles and PC are the same, because they aren't. If PCs did not exist, most of my favorite games would not, either.

True. Stuff with weird or unusual control schemes like Toribash, Surgery Sim, and Receiver or complex menu-intensive games like Crusader Kings 2 and AI War: Fleet Command certainly wouldn't work on consoles

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

True. Stuff with weird or unusual control schemes like Toribash, Surgery Sim, and Receiver or complex menu-intensive games like Crusader Kings 2 and AI War: Fleet Command certainly wouldn't work on consoles

The interface paradigm of mouse control -> touch control is substantially stronger than mouse control -> analogue stick, so effectively every title designed primarily for mouse input is a de facto better port to a touch device with large enough resolution than it is to console.
For indies using off-the-shelf middleware that handles the porting costs, its almost a no-brainer to follow through with a tablet version.

 

[Opiate]

Right now, the biggest PC games are these:

League of Legends
DotA 2
CS:GO
World of Tanks
World of Warcraft (by revenue, at least)

Four of these have no console ports at all, and the other has a port that almost nobody cares about because the game needs a mouse/keyboard for competitive precision.

Among the other most popular games are Elder Scrolls (yes, on console) Hearthstone (no), Farmville (no), and StarCraft 2 (no). Personal favorites for me -- while sometimes far less popular overall -- include Natural Selection 2 (no), Dwarf Fortress (no), Eve Online (no) and Hearthstone (again, no). To reemphasize, I'm not saying there is no overlap at all, but the notion that PC and console are basically the same while console and mobile are totally different isn't a very informed opinion. High end PCs are more complex and technically powerful and their default input method provides far more buttons and more precision. It doesn't mean you have to prefer PCs -- I'm totally fine if you prefer consoles, they are definitely simpler and more convenient -- but there is a real difference.

 

[Omegasquash]

Seeing this thread just moved me from "this isn't looking good and I'm really concerned" to "it's terminal, enjoy the time you have left".

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

What if MGSV is about this? Big Boss is a major videogame franchise from the 80s who wakes up as a reboot in the modern world of mobile gaming. Recognizing the fate that has befallen all his brothers (franchises) and in this new body that is not his true body, all he wants now is revenge. It was the "taboo subject" Kojima mentioned wanting to tackle that would make him need to leave the industry if he messed it up. I guess he wasn't subtle or convoluted enough and Konami sniffed out the analogy.

Wayyy too clever and nuanced for Kojima