crock7owu10
Neo Member
Love the Batmobile. Don't understand the dislike or hate behind this one. Filing this under the ambiguous gamer hate file.
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Is the Batmobile the worst AAA gameplay mechanic in recent memory?
- Thread starter FirmBizBws
- Start date
Then you need to read/watch more Batman.
I think there's a misunderstanding here.
There's a significant difference between a character having done something and a certain thing being identifiable with a character.
Batman has existed for 75 years. He has probably done a little bit of everything. But there can still be certain things that don't seem like Batman, and you can't just discount that. I, and others, think that Batman engaging in grenade launcher, minigun tank combat is one of those things.
That doesn't mean you can't do it. I don't think I've ever seen Batman engaged in tank combat using military ordnance, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Batman has been confined to a wheelchair longer than he has been engaged in minigun tank combat, that's for sure, but that wouldn't mean that a game with a large amount of gameplay dedicated to being wheelchair bound would feel true to the character.
Batman has used a Green Lantern ring many times. That doesn't mean that Batman using one in Arkham Knight wouldn't be jarring.
I understand that you like it but surely you can see that, in the context of the Batman mythos, there isn't much reason for Batman to be engaged in tank combat. And, heck, there isn't much reason in the game either. Its primary reason for being in the game is gameplay, and I (unlike you) would groan as the game threw more and more of it at me. So when it has no real contextual relevance and it isn't that great of a gameplay component (imo) its inclusion sticks out more and more as unnecessary.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Wut
MiguelItUp
Member
27+ hours in and I still really enjoy the Batmobile. Personally I don't think they could have done a better job utilizing it. I was very impressed, and still am honestly.
I don't think anything will ever dethrone the Mako as the worst.
I don't think anything will ever dethrone the Mako as the worst.
Batman using a Bat-Tank against a Drone Army is absolutely something a 21st Century Batman would do. He's got the most bullshit Plot Armor of all time and is Always Prepared For Everything That Could Ever Possibly Happen. There's also loads of precedent for him using those types of weapons before, no matter how much you don't think they fit into your version of Batman. In the context of modern weapon technology and there being more and more remotely controlled, unmanned weapon platforms used in combat the Bat-Tank makes perfect sense.
This is the Batmobile Warner wanted :
Too much tank sequences with the drone tanks, it is really a game breaker.
Of course if you come and say "it's amazing I don't understand you guys" and then you quit, you can't understand. Maybe you really can't.
Too much tank sequences with the drone tanks, it is really a game breaker.
Of course if you come and say "it's amazing I don't understand you guys" and then you quit, you can't understand. Maybe you really can't.
"Something he would do" and "something he would do repeatedly" aren't really the same thing though.
The reason Batman doesn't make use of certain options all the time, is that rare situations occur. The fact he's prepared for them and has an option at his disposal is the important part.
The crux of his character: a man with near limitless access to technology, the will and intellect to always be prepared, his use of fear as a weapon. and the slightly insane satisfaction he takes from exerting his strength over what he deems evil.
I totally understand why it might be jarring if your only idea bout Batman is "He wears a cape, sneaks about, hits stuff, and solves crime", and while the unmanned tanks might be an unusual enemy for Batman, the fact he's already prepared something just in case this ever happened, no matter how unlikely, is exactly what Batman would do.
Yes, the primary reason it exists is gameplay, but it's also very in character and when Batman exists in such a crazy universe full of remarkable and unexplainable things, a horde of unmanned tanks is hardly out there.
I do understand, Zakalwe. And you are being reasonable.
I know that if I liked those segments of gameplay I would be a lot more accepting of the Bat-Tank. So the thing for me is, basically, "Here's this gameplay-thing that's the only major part of the game I don't like AND it's the thing that feels least like Batman to me".
So it's a frustration that an element that seems to fit the least in terms of character or story context also being the thing that I found the least interesting mechanically (and, as much as I don't want to project my opinions onto others, I struggle to see how anyone would be excited for these segments of gameplay, particularly as they become more and more frequent as the game nears its end).
But hey, I'm hopeful that the DLC doesn't have it. If Batgirl's DLC has the Batcycle I think I'll enjoy that. If Batman's DLC has a more standard Batmobile again I think that would be fun.
I know that if I liked those segments of gameplay I would be a lot more accepting of the Bat-Tank. So the thing for me is, basically, "Here's this gameplay-thing that's the only major part of the game I don't like AND it's the thing that feels least like Batman to me".
So it's a frustration that an element that seems to fit the least in terms of character or story context also being the thing that I found the least interesting mechanically (and, as much as I don't want to project my opinions onto others, I struggle to see how anyone would be excited for these segments of gameplay, particularly as they become more and more frequent as the game nears its end).
But hey, I'm hopeful that the DLC doesn't have it. If Batgirl's DLC has the Batcycle I think I'll enjoy that. If Batman's DLC has a more standard Batmobile again I think that would be fun.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I like that Batmobile. I'm currently around 60% through. I haven't yet found anything that irritates me. Playing on hard.
Remember that this is "One Night" in Gotham and "Something he would do" in that one night. Not some repeated over and over stretch of days or weeks or whatever long time period in the context of the game and story.
I think it's a terrible crutch for the game, I struggle to get past playing a half hour at a time. I go to an area, i see a room has poison in it, i'm told through narration that i need to get the batmobile in here to clear it. Wench ramps up to get the batmobile to places, it's needy and slow. It reminds me of dragging Yorda around by the wrist without any of the charm.
People don't necessarily come to these games for tank vs. drone combat. Mechanically it's pretty decent, but not what I wanted.
Also, the whole drone setup is so contrived. If they had to go that far with it to make it happen, then why do it at all?
semiconscious
Member
& this's just as ingenuous this time as it is every time anyone else in the thread says it. i mean, c'mon - it's not complicated:
glad you love the batmobile. but, yeah, not everyone does...
It's hard to ignore the cost to the rest of the game that developing the Batmobile and creating content for it definitely contributed towards.
Previous games in the franchise had sprawling indoor environments with a complex and rewarding Metroidvania sort of design element.
Arkham Knight had like three multi-room environments and they were basically straight, laughably short lines in comparison.
For me, the loss doesn't offset the gain in that trade-off at all.
Previous games in the franchise had sprawling indoor environments with a complex and rewarding Metroidvania sort of design element.
Arkham Knight had like three multi-room environments and they were basically straight, laughably short lines in comparison.
For me, the loss doesn't offset the gain in that trade-off at all.
Pimpbaa
Member
But sprawling indoor environments don't make any sense. Solving crimes across the city is much more Batman like than being a metroid game with a Batman skin. Tank combat isn't very Batman either however. I would have gladed traded that in for more detective work (even though I didn't find tank combat all that hard).
Spring-Loaded
Member
If it wasn't the Batmobile, it would've been some other gadget or puzzle to clear the room.
I remember hearing about how it was tedious switching between the Batmobile and Batman just to take out some automated turrets or clear a path prior to release. Upon playing segments like those, all I can think of is how all the previous games (including the hallowed first game) are wrought with puzzle contrivance and locking progression behind specific use of certain gadgets. This is in no way something new, and while it's still convenient here, I can't think of any moment in the main story where it seems like "oh, he wouldn't need the Batmobile." At least, no more than needing to use the line launcher in Arkham Asylum, or the freeze grenades in City.
Extra Sauce
Member
I suspect a lot of the people who dislike the Batmobile don't know about toggle mode.
BenHargrove
Member
I actually don't think the Batmobile is that bad. Toggle mode just made it better, thanks!
Absolutely. I get your reasoning here, and if I didn't like the tank I might even be writing the same thing. I just find it frustrating when people say "this isn't like Batman" and leave it at that when they don't know Batman, it's just a pet peeve.
I'm actually hoping the DLC has no tank encounters either. I love it, but I have a game full of it and there are enough people who seem to outright loath it that it would be cool for them to get more content without it, and as I enjoy the other systems just as much it would be a win for me regardless.
I'd like them to keep the Batmobile the same though, it has uses outside of tank combat.
RPGCrazied
Member
I thought it was cool and fun, I more had a problem with the forced segments.
The worse part was the
, that was rage inducing. Specially when the
can destroy the batmobile in one fucking hit.
The worse part was the
drill chase
drill
It's a mechanic that people are going to be *really* split on, I think. I really enjoyed it -- everything from the racing to the drone combat, I really loved. I'm not sure why, it just felt right to me -- even though on PC it's ... more artificially challenging thanks to constant hitching and stutters.
Anyone who says they absolutely hated it, I can understand. It was a risky move for them, and I can see the mechanics falling flat on people who love the core batman experience from the previous games as nearly perfect without need for addition.
Either way, as a worst mechanic ever thing, no, I don't think even remotely close to being that bad. I think when it's forced in the game, it's used correctly and relatively well.
Anyone who says they absolutely hated it, I can understand. It was a risky move for them, and I can see the mechanics falling flat on people who love the core batman experience from the previous games as nearly perfect without need for addition.
Either way, as a worst mechanic ever thing, no, I don't think even remotely close to being that bad. I think when it's forced in the game, it's used correctly and relatively well.
reggieandTFE
Member
I'm only 34% of the way through the game overall, but I'm loving the batmobile elements. I think separating the battle mode from the racing controls was fantastic design. Weaker developers would have shoe-horned both into one awkward control scheme.
Pimpbaa
Member
Tank battles are still pretty easy at that point. Some advice, don't neglect batmobile upgrades (particularly the hack drone ability). It helps so much later.
No, the constant bat vision required in arkham night is a piss off an horribly implemented
It forces you to play in that view for the majority of the game....
It should highlight when pressed once and leave items and enemies highlighted without the neon blue overlay for a set period of time. This time can be upgraded with points.
It forces you to play in that view for the majority of the game....
It should highlight when pressed once and leave items and enemies highlighted without the neon blue overlay for a set period of time. This time can be upgraded with points.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
There is more than enough content in the game that can be done without having to touch the Batmobile. I don't see the problem, personally.
You have to realize when people "hate" the batmobile, they don't hate the batmobile.
They hate the brainless shitty tank missions and stealth tank missions that they spammed the game's main quest with.
I personally think the Batmobile is awesome and controls great after some time getting used to it.
And I loathe those shitty and pace-ruining missions. I was tolerating up until the point where you find them "underground" too. Then I was like "yeah that's cute, let's do that again... Never."
They hate the brainless shitty tank missions and stealth tank missions that they spammed the game's main quest with.
I personally think the Batmobile is awesome and controls great after some time getting used to it.
And I loathe those shitty and pace-ruining missions. I was tolerating up until the point where you find them "underground" too. Then I was like "yeah that's cute, let's do that again... Never."
CrichtonKicks
Member
It's one night. The equivalent of one arc in the comics.
Batman donned a mech-like suit recently to fight the Justice League (long story). It's not something he would do repeatedly but he did it in the situation when it's needed. During the same story he effected an evacuation of a very large portion of Gotham in a matter of minutes (something else Knight has had similar criticisms for). And this is happening during a current, very highly praised run of the comics.
There is nothing in Arkham Knight that isn't consistent with some very highly praised Batman comics in the past. The game does leverage it's quasi-Elseworlds status to do things that cant' be done in current comic continuity but then again TDKR does the same thing. The theme of the game is about how what happened at the end of Arkharm City effects some extreme changes in Batman.
I hope you are applying the same logic to everyone in this thread that loves it as well.
I haven't actually played Arkham Knight yet, and am not even close to being up to date with the comics... so maybe I'm seeing the scenario somewhat incorrectly. However, even understanding that this is a single night in Gotham, they are the ones creating the scenarios and the means for Batman to deal with them. The use of the Batmobile in Arkham Knight seems like the sort of thing that would occupy maybe two or three pages in a comic, rather than be one of the main focuses of an entire arc. Now this can also somewhat be argued about the combat in general, but I think hand-to-hand combat is such a general fixture of Batman in all forms of media, that the amount of it that occurs in the game doesn't raise any eyebrows.
I dunno, maybe I just need to play it, but so far it sounds like a simular focus in any other form of Batman media would both suck massively, and not seem much like Batman. I already feel that Batman's traversal in an open-world setting is already far more "superhuman" than it should be, which is one of the reasons I thought Arkham Asylum did a better job of feeling like I was playing as Batman than Arkham City did, where I almost felt like I was playing as a gliding Spiderman.
semiconscious
Member
hunh? i haven't seen a number of people saying ' i don't understand how anyone could enjoy the batmobile'. i think it's pretty easy to understand how someone could like it. i just think it's bullshit to claim (as many have) that they simply can't wrap their heads around the idea that some people might not, as tho it's some kinda objectively wonderful addition to the series. because it isn't...
saying you like/dislike something's one thing. saying you can't understand someone feeling differently than you do is just weak...
CrichtonKicks
Member
Yes, it's basically this- if you adapted a fight by fight, predator by predator, version of the games into a comic it would be the most boring comic in the world. But we accept it as a part of the gameplay loop. Similarly the comic version of Arkham Knight would probably have only one or two tank battles. But the context of "Alfred, the Arkham Knight has invaded Gotham City with a Drone Army, ready my battle tank" is no different than "Alfred, the Court of Owls is attacking Wayne Manor with an army of undead assassins susceptible to extreme cold, ready by thermal suit!" (which happened not long ago in the comics). And, oh, those undead assassins made it convenient to allow Batman to use lethal force all he wanted to since they were technically dead despite having conscious thoughts and feelings.
Yea, I've read the Court of Owls arc. That's kinda what I'm getting at though. Combat was the arc's general focus, because it's a typical focus for Batman in general. Even the 1966 TV show intro almost exclusively features combat, as it's pretty much Batman's go-to problem solver lol. The batmobile on the other hand is far more situational in general, and never generally has a role that comes anywhere close to approaching the time Batman spends in general combat in any iteration of Batman that I'm familiar with. Yet here it seems that the scenario is set up specifically to make the batmobile integral to pretty much everything Batman does.. and not just as a mode of transport. It's definitely plausible that for this night Batman needs to spend a vast amount of time using the batmobile over and over again, but it's at odds with the character's (and villains) general portrayal in all other media. He's fighting his usual rogues gallery, but for whatever reasons, this time everyone is creating batmobile required situations.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Well, yeah, clearly the drones came about as a concept so they could do vehicular combat. But that's just gameplay driving the story which is probably true for 90% or more of games on the market.
As to the "usual rogues gallery", well that isn't really true. The drones and militia are from the Arkham Knight and he isn't a part of his usual rogue's gallery. Yes, even given his actual identity. None of the other rogues in the game require the battle tank other than Riddler but his riddles have never actually fit into the context of even the Arkham world.
Firefly
In this context, in this specific game, the battle tank makes sense. If Rocksteady does continue to play in the Batman sandbox in some form then they are really, really going to have to stretch to keep the Battle Tank in future games.
All (well except one tiny part, sorta-kinda) of the Bat-Tank stuff is tied to one specific villain, not the rest of his Rogues Gallery. The Drone Army is the Arkham Knight's shtick, basically. Even The Riddler doesn't having him use the Bat-Tank to fight shit (it's just involved in some purely puzzle stuff for the "tank" mode with the winch and knocking out some pop up turrets in some riddles, the rest is the wacky races). None of the regular villains go out of character and make him use it.
And the title of this game is Arkham Knight. It hugely focused on him. So of course, the game is going to focus on his deal and his means of fighting against Batman.
Springfoot
Member
Not even close. If you think the Batmobile isn't fun, try replaying Mass Effect 1 and using the Mako, which was both was clunky and boring.
I get that some people dislike the Batmobile sequences within the context of a Batman game they expected to play more like Arkham City, but there's no denying that it's incredibly responsive and that the environment/level design was built with it in mind.
I get that some people dislike the Batmobile sequences within the context of a Batman game they expected to play more like Arkham City, but there's no denying that it's incredibly responsive and that the environment/level design was built with it in mind.
It leaves a really bad first impression though - the initial wench "puzzle" and the entire Ace Chemicals mission are terrible. Then later on you've got stealth gameplay with a bloody tank. Who thought vehicle platforming and stealth sections were a good idea? They sound awful on paper and the execution isn't much better.
Don't make any sense? It doesn't make any sense that a bunch of big theatrical villains would have big theatrical hideouts?
I get that the traversal of those things is a little contrived, but interesting and rewarding level design in games rarely stands up to any "does it make sense?" litmus test. It doesn't make sense that there's miles of Morph Ball-sized nooks and crannies in Metroid games, but they're fun to discover. The games would be less without them. So who cares about the logistics?
Anyhow, the game didn't do away with contrivances, it just traded some good ones in for some shitty ones. A dude single-handedly invading Gotham with a thousand tanks is pretty fucking contrived.
shinobi602
Member
I've been playing for about 15 hours so far and I feel like its implementation is awesome. I genuinely can't understand the viewpoint of it being a "game breaker" in any sense. Then again I think taking out the drone tanks is fun in itself too.This is the Batmobile Warner wanted :
Too much tank sequences with the drone tanks, it is really a game breaker.
Of course if you come and say "it's amazing I don't understand you guys" and then you quit, you can't understand. Maybe you really can't.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I suck at driving cars in most games. If they could make it handle easier with a patch, that would be awesome. I run into everything.
I dislike the controls of both the bat mobile and the bat tank.
I dislike the bat mobile/tank abilities, how frequently they are used in puzzles, how little they actually contribute to the gameplay, and how frequently they come up in all other aspects of the game (riddler challenges, enemy dialog, etc).
It seems like the majority of focus in the game was shifted to a mechanic that just doesn't gel with me. im actually regretting not getting the game at retail or through the broken steam release as the title will now sit in my PS4 library likely collecting figurative dust.
I dislike the bat mobile/tank abilities, how frequently they are used in puzzles, how little they actually contribute to the gameplay, and how frequently they come up in all other aspects of the game (riddler challenges, enemy dialog, etc).
It seems like the majority of focus in the game was shifted to a mechanic that just doesn't gel with me. im actually regretting not getting the game at retail or through the broken steam release as the title will now sit in my PS4 library likely collecting figurative dust.
The only awkward thing about the Batmobile for me is braking. I always hit LT instead of X by mistake - switching to tank mode when I meant to drift around a corner. Other than that, the Batmobile is cool and I think the game uses it well without it feeling forced. Those moments when you're trapped by your enemies then you realize that you can remote control the Batmobile to take them out from behind are pretty awesome.
Sure, you can justify anything in gameplay I guess.Sonic had multiple implementations of pinball mechanics in various games, but if a new Sonic game came out, and it had tons of Sonic Adventure Casinopolis tables in every other stage, then I would expect comments about it not feeling much like a Sonic game (or at least being very detrimental as one). Same thing for the Werehog really, which is quite possibly how I imagine many are feeling each time they encounter one of these segments.
It makes sense for Sonic to be playing pinball in Casinopolis. He has to. However the game designers choose how frequently he has to do something that's not typically how the player expects to interact with the character.
Noted about the rogues gallery though.
I wouldn't really count the Ghost in Destiny as a gameplay mechanic, rather than a lack of various gameplay mechanics, lol.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
In the case of the Batmobile it is a bit different because it requires more work. Since it usually involves entering/exiting the batmobile. Some times multiple times.