http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...euthanasia-death-depression-article-1.2276577
The young Turks had a good debate on this issue
http://youtu.be/ILg838K9CfY
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Belgian woman, 24, granted right to die by euthanasia over suicidal thoughts
- Thread starter neojubei
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...euthanasia-death-depression-article-1.2276577
The young Turks had a good debate on this issue
http://youtu.be/ILg838K9CfY
metalslimer
Member
Nope can't get behind this one at all.
hobblygobbly
Member
I've been a supporter of assisted dying when I saw family members of mine suffering from terminal illness.
I don't support assisted dying for anything that isn't terminal, at least not right now.
I don't support assisted dying for anything that isn't terminal, at least not right now.
Nah. You might have been able to, but the fact she's had these thoughts all her life.
At the end of the day everybody should have the right to die, for whatever reason however stupid it is.
sakipon
Member
I kinda feel this there's some info missing. Is depression truly the only or most serious diagnosis she has? Perhaps there is more to her mental illness than that?
If she gets a legal injenction for only depression, then I unfortunately have to change my opinion on legal euthanasia. I'd rather have terminally ill suffering than the state killing anyone who ever wishes it.
I don't agree. The risk of abuse becomes high if anyone can have a legal suicide for any reason. People who have a bad time in their life might get bullied or pressed to choose assisted suicide. Suicides should never be the norm and a-okay.
If she gets a legal injenction for only depression, then I unfortunately have to change my opinion on legal euthanasia. I'd rather have terminally ill suffering than the state killing anyone who ever wishes it.
I don't agree. The risk of abuse becomes high if anyone can have a legal suicide for any reason. People who have a bad time in their life might get bullied or pressed to choose assisted suicide. Suicides should never be the norm and a-okay.
Well, I haven't gotten better, and have been dealing with it my whole life. My point is, it's giving up. Assisted suicide in terminal cases is an acceptable thing, to ease someone's passing. She has a mental illness, and letting someone give in to the urges of a sick mind is definitely not the way to go. It's pretty absurd to even compare the two.
This is also absurd. State assisted suicide is something we shouldn't discuss?
Yeah let's kill a woman who's brain has barely stopped developing and could have 60 great years ahead of her because we can't be fucked figuring out how to help her.
Whilst I completely understand the pain and anguish mental illness can cause, this isn't a valid answer for a 24 year old.
If you have an argument to make, make it. But telling people to "mind their own business" when talking about a human life is straight up bullshit.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
This seems like a terrible precedent.
As someone with three unsuccessful attempts, and years of depression, and yet managed to make it through the other side, I find it hard to agree with this. No matter how hard it was, no matter how lucky I may or may not be, it was worth it to be here.
It's her life, but as mentioned above, it's a worrying precedent. Finding peace is one thing; giving up is another.
It's her life, but as mentioned above, it's a worrying precedent. Finding peace is one thing; giving up is another.
LostCaress
Member
I fully support euthanasia for people who are suffering from a disease that has no realistic hope of improving. I think mental issues follow the same principles as any other disease. If doctors concluded that there was no hope for improvement, and that she was suffering, I guess I'm ok with this decision.
Obviously I don't think that people with suicidal thoughts should all be "euthanized" at their requests.
Obviously I don't think that people with suicidal thoughts should all be "euthanized" at their requests.
Just once was enough for me, but I have the same misgivings. I would like to know more about why they said yes in this particular case, and in what cases they would say no, and what their basis for refusal would be in those cases.
I rather see someone like this euthanised, where she can take proper farewell and having professionals take care of her body, than having a relative walk in on her with slit wrists or some train driver run her over.
Though, granting it to depressed shouldn't be given easily. But, in the end, it's her life.
Though, granting it to depressed shouldn't be given easily. But, in the end, it's her life.
I'm not sure what to think about this. She's so young, so much could still change given some time. If she was a healthy 95 year old who just felt like they are done after surviving all family and friends i'd probably understand it. But life has so many ups and downs.. How would this be done even? Who would have to give her this injection?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I consider myself in favor of right-to-die legislation, in cases of terminal illness and non-curable suffering. I don't know how I feel about this particular case though. I'm thinking there should maybe be a mandatory therapy period in which the individual is given the care to try and cope with their depression before the ultimate decision of death is granted.
Risk of abuse? If someone wants to genuinely kill themselves they'll jump off a bridge, if they go to a doctor asking to be euthansied because they feel a little depressed, obviously they're not going to give them that unless it's very special circumstances (like this girl here, which I agree in part she should have tried some other methods first, 24 is so young).
But in general, if people want to die it's a right they should have.
Just leave if this is all you can bring to the thread. Euthanasia is a major issue that ought to be discussed, especially over depression, the mental illness that makes people kill themselves.
And plenty of people have attempted suicide and gotten better and were thankful they didnt succeed. It sounds like she hasnt even attempted, which is weird.
Opus Angelorum
Member
That would require nuance and complex discussion, which wont happen.
IISANDERII
Member
Yeah I'm gonna assume they tried everything but everything short of shock therapy and stuff like that. 24yrs of suffering is enough but i wonder why she wasn't able to take her own life.
If she didnt tried ECT before attempting this, those doctors werent thorough enough. ECT isnt that extreme a treatment.
I_R_ Patch
Banned
This if she feels this is the path she needs to take so be it
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Yeah. If I remember correctly the major controversy over it was that it was being administered non-consensually on patients.
I don't agree with that. It's a problem I've had since about the age of 11. You go through good patches sure, but it will always be there.
That said, this sets a terrible precedent.
That's where we disagree and I think saying that is not possible.
She is not of a sane mind.
PeskyToaster
Member
I strongly disagree with this. I get it when it's terminal but this rubs me the wrong way.
"I played all my life with these thoughts of suicide, I have also done a few attempts,"
From the very short linked article.
It also states she entered a psychiatric institution at 21. Not sure if she left it later or is still there form the article. It sounds like treatment has been attempted.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Not just the train driver in some cases. My brother saw a jumper on a platform full of people including small children and was really messed up by it this year.
LostCaress
Member
Even though I said I was in favour of this, I can't really agree with the above statement. We usually allow adults that are of sound mind to make their own decisions - the problem is that with depression there's kind of a catch-22, if someone wants to die we assume that they are not sane. If someone is depressed and wants to die, the doctor's first reaction is not "ok, sure, let's do it". A lot of people get better with treatment.
So I just assumed that after a long battle with depression, after a thought out process, a group of doctors actually realized that in this particular case there was no hope for improvement, and that the person manifested a strong, continuous, persistent desire to die.
Read an interview with her in dutch a few weeks ago.
Basically she isn't "suicidal" and depressed in the normal sense, but since she was a child she has been living with a "internal pain" that is psychologically based.
She's quite intelligent and seems to have a clear mind about it. She's tired of fighting and says she has nothing to live for - knowing her life will end (the complete procedure for euthanasia lasted about 1.5 year) gave her more strength and made her and the people around her cope with it in a humane way (what suicide never does).
I'm not going to debate it here, but it sounded like a well thought out plan, and not something done just "because she's depressed/suicidal".
The interview I read with her:
http://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/laura...ond-ze-krijgt-deze-zomer-euthanasie-a2367037/
And a quote by hawking:
“To keep someone alive against their wishes is the ultimate indignity"
Basically she isn't "suicidal" and depressed in the normal sense, but since she was a child she has been living with a "internal pain" that is psychologically based.
She's quite intelligent and seems to have a clear mind about it. She's tired of fighting and says she has nothing to live for - knowing her life will end (the complete procedure for euthanasia lasted about 1.5 year) gave her more strength and made her and the people around her cope with it in a humane way (what suicide never does).
I'm not going to debate it here, but it sounded like a well thought out plan, and not something done just "because she's depressed/suicidal".
The interview I read with her:
http://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/laura...ond-ze-krijgt-deze-zomer-euthanasie-a2367037/
And a quote by hawking:
“To keep someone alive against their wishes is the ultimate indignity"
Reasonable... as long as sufficient duty of care was done to assess her case and see if she had prospects of 'recovery' from depression.
I mean... we might not currently recognize it as terminal... but what if there's simply no hope for recovery with her? No will nor desire?
Surely such edge cases should merit the full gamut of solutions, less society itself become worse off by closing off the debate without consideration or discussion for the deeper intricacies of each specific case.
I mean... we might not currently recognize it as terminal... but what if there's simply no hope for recovery with her? No will nor desire?
Surely such edge cases should merit the full gamut of solutions, less society itself become worse off by closing off the debate without consideration or discussion for the deeper intricacies of each specific case.
She might have sought this out as validation for her thoughts. I agree mental health must be nourished and cared for, but I don't always agree with the way "support" is framed. When you say, "there must have been another way," "I'm sure someone could have helped her," "you just needed to try another option" and so on, you are tacitly naming the decision and action of suicide a failure. As if the woman has failed, her caretakers have failed, her family has failed. I don't believe that is the case. If she is living a life of misery because of her mental health, and it cannot be remedied in a way that satisfies her, then she should be allowed the right of euthanasia. If you support euthanasia for any other terminal illness, and you recognize that mental illness is a real condition and can induce suffering comparable to physical illness, I don't see how you could conclude otherwise. Seems hypocritical.
alexandros
Banned
Oh my God, there has to be a better solution than this.
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