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Fighting Games Weekly | July 20-26 | No Gods or Kings, Only Tears

S

Sayad

Member
Mr. X said:
SFV isn't out yet. Matches are fast because the game is new. Wait and see when people learn to defend, space and move better and all parts are in the game.
Click to expand...
Isn't it the opposite with most games? I know matches ended up being faster later on in SFxT and MvC3 at least.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
CurlyW said:
That Evo fiasco was 2013, not 2012. 2012 they still ran pools 2/3 without switching.

Final Round in 2012 was ran 2/3 all the way. The switch to 3/5 didn't start to happen until around May, when Curleh Moustache and UFGT8 ran it that way. By July, every tournament was running 3/5 for all matches, apart from Final Round—which ran pools 2/3 in 2013 before making the switch in 2014—and Evo—which ran pools 2/3 in 2012 and from 8am-10am in 2013. (And obviously those tournaments would be the last to make the switch, since they're the ones with the most entrants.)

And I'm not talking about a special Top 8 format here, I'm talking about standard format. The standard format for all open-entry tournaments for SF4 is 2/3 for all matches up to Top 8 or later. That shouldn't change for SFV until at least a year into the game's life.

EDIT: Also the Tekken community tends to be one of the most adamant at requesting Bo5 for their game as the standard format.
Click to expand...
I know all of that, that's what I was saying. People were asking for 3/5 Marvel before even EVO 2011 yet it was implemented in EVO 2013 (and even then it was kinda of a fuck up).

And I already said that 3/5 should be standard for SFV all the way (in its current state, game could definitely change over time) based on what the average length of the game is going to be. Honestly speaking having 2/3 for semis and then 3/5 top 8 is a bit bizarre... normally it's fine to have longer sets for GFs but having different set numbers in semi vs top 8 is definitely not the norm. You kinda have to ask yourself why it's happening for SF4 and not for other games (ie. 2/3 semis then 3/5 top 8).


I know matches ended up being faster later on in SFxT and MvC3 at least.
Click to expand...
MVC3 is the opposite, match length ended up slower compared to what it was in its first few months. That's because stuff like XF1 to kill the first character then kill the other 2 characters was pretty easy to do and hard to comeback from because of lack of stuff like aerial XF. Neutral game from the players was worse overall as well... it was unthinkable back in the day for there to be 40 Marvel seconds of neutral between the point characters. Defense was also a lot worse and people got away with a lot more gimmicks into kills.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Final one
Tekken-7-7.gif


Plus, bonus demonstrations of:

Slowdown
http://gifyu.com/images/Tekken-7-4.gif

Power Crush
http://gifyu.com/images/Tekken-7-5.gif

Rage Art
http://gifyu.com/images/Lili-4.gif

Bizazedo said:
It's been awhile since I bought Tekken, definitely getting the next one (although excessive juggle combos killed it for me originally). I was actually pissed when I couldn't kneejerk buy it during Evo.
Click to expand...

I think Tekken 7 does a better job of balancing between the people that loved the juggling and the people that didn't.

The screw attack is the new bound but it doesn't work at walls and the new get up options prevent constant juggling so it's not like Tekken 6 where you're rolling back and getting caught all the time.

twozerotwo said:
Hnnnng.mp4

My brother and I start vacation at the same time this week so maybe he'll want to do the 3 hour drive with me to try out T7. I doubt it just because he hasn't seemed that interested and neither of us have played a Tekken game since the first one on PS1.
Click to expand...

Yeah, 3 hours is a long drive, haha.

I had my doubts before with the system changes and the general hate surrounding the game but I fell in love with the game when I played it.

shaowebb said:
hmmmmmmmmm...A particle emitter for sparks and then a water ripple distortion applied around it on hit. Damned sexy in action.

I wonder if that would work in a cel shaded atmosphere? Probably not with the particle emitter but I'm betting that ripple would look damned sexy coupled with some of the Marvel 3 style hit sparks.

I know whats on my wishlist for Capcom in more VS games :D
Click to expand...

Would definitely look real amazing in a Capcom Vs. game as well.

mbpm1 said:
Those T7 gifs are fire
Click to expand...

Thanks. :D
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
UltraClarity said:
There was absolutely no issues with the SFV beta..
Click to expand...

You don't say?

NEO0MJ said:
Oh, finally finished your reports? Were you writing your report?
Click to expand...

Reports? I'm scared now...
Had a job interview and nailed it. Start work pretty soon in IT.

mbpm1 said:
Sayah made cool T7 gifs.

And the beta has zero issues. That's all.
Click to expand...

You bastard. The gifs are awesome though.

UltraClarity said:
Because it's Yams fault I started reading Prison School again. I forgot about that series until he brought that filth into the purity of fighting games.
Click to expand...

cdrQbOR.png
 
Kalamari

Kalamari

Member
I heard Capcom is lengthening the beta period on the tail end, have they mentioned how much longer it will last? I suspect that they didn't anticipate using the approach they currently are, that is opening the beta for a few hours at a time. Do you think they will drastically lengthen the beta period since they are employing this approach?

Do you think Rising Thunder will delay their beta?
 
notworksafe

notworksafe

Member
The Tekken gifs are gorgeous. Had such a good time playing that game at EVO, just wish I could have gotten my casuals BEFORE my pools. :(

Fingers crossed it somehow gets put in a Dave & Busters here.
 
R

Rotanibor

Member
It should be noted that those 3rd Strike Ryu pictures posted on the past couple page were captured with an emulator, which outputs a stretched out image. His proportions do not actually look like that.

The CPS3 has an odd native resolution, along with the CPS2, which are both a bit wide. When played on an arcade monitor they get squeezed down to a standard 4:3 aspect ratio. 3S Ryu would look very similar to TvC Ryu at that point.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
Mr. X said:
SFV isn't out yet. Matches are fast because the game is new. Wait and see when people learn to defend, space and move better and all parts are in the game.
Click to expand...

Not going to happen with that damage output and white health damage on guarding normals.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
Supposedly it's done because your eyes are usually focused near the middle of the screen, so for characters low on life you can see small changes in the lifebar at a glance. When they're near full health, the lifebar changes are near the edge of the screen so they have a more pronounced visual change in health values.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a separate issue? How you depict the remaining life (do you weight it or not) is not the same as special damage scaling kicking in at certain health thresholds.

i.e.,
Magic pixel style health bars- the graphic of the health bar doesn't directly coincide with actual percentage of remaining health (just a visual gimmick).
Guts style damage scaling- attacks actually do different amounts of damage (numerically) depending on the opponent's remaining health.
 
C

CurlyW

Member
Dahbomb said:
I know all of that, that's what I was saying. People were asking for 3/5 Marvel before even EVO 2011 yet it was implemented in EVO 2013 (and even then it was kinda of a fuck up).

And I already said that 3/5 should be standard for SFV all the way (in its current state, game could definitely change over time) based on what the average length of the game is going to be. Honestly speaking having 2/3 for semis and then 3/5 top 8 is a bit bizarre... normally it's fine to have longer sets for GFs but having different set numbers in semi vs top 8 is definitely not the norm. You kinda have to ask yourself why it's happening for SF4 and not for other games (ie. 2/3 semis then 3/5 top 8).
Click to expand...

It's happening that way because Capcom mandates that all CPT premier events have to have 3/5 for Top 8s. The rest of the tournament is 2/3 because that's the actual standard for fighting game tournaments.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
CurlyW said:
It's happening that way because Capcom mandates that all CPT premier events have to have 3/5 for Top 8s. The rest of the tournament is 2/3 because that's the actual standard for fighting game tournaments.
Click to expand...
I know that which is why I am thinking... "why is Capcom doing it 3/5 and not 2/3?" "why doesn't the tournament follow suit and make everything else 3/5 as well for consistency?"

If going forward Capcom mandates 3/5 for SFV then I would hope that tournament makes the rest of the event 3/5 as well. I know there's always the issue of time but that was also the reason giving for Marvel back in the day (too much time, too many players) but the quicker it's done the better off it is in the long run IMO.

Standards change. What was standard a while back isn't standard now. MVC2 was 2/3 standard, MVC3 is 3/5 standard now. Japan has started to change its tournament standards as well. With a lot of money and investment being put into a game like SFV... I would say that if I were a TO I would try to accommodate 3/5 SFV as much as I possibly could if the community was ok with it.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
Zissou said:
Isn't that a separate issue? How you depict the remaining life (do you weight it or not) is not the same as special damage scaling kicking in at certain health thresholds.

i.e.,
Magic pixel style health bars- the graphic of the health bar doesn't directly coincide with actual percentage of remaining health (just a visual gimmick).
Guts style damage scaling- attacks actually do different amounts of damage (numerically) depending on the opponent's remaining health.
Click to expand...

I thought of the guts thing as sort of an extension of the magic pixel system. But yeah they work a bit differently.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
I think Capcom should continue doing what they're doing with USF4. 2/3 all the way until top 8, and then make top 8 3/5. We don't know how fast SFV matches will go yet. Until then, better be safe than sorry and stick with the standard format. Maybe after a year when people really start figuring out the game and their characters this can be reevaluated if matches are finishing faster compared to USF4. I doubt they will though. I think SFV matches will only be a bit faster than USF4(on average) in the end.
 
A

Anne

Member
It has been really weird watching JP tournaments lately and seeing loser brackets.

Infinite said:
Doesn't every street fighter game does this? Hell, Blazblue and Perosna does this too, no?
Click to expand...

BB doesn't do this. The healthbar changes to show somebody is in Astral range, that's it. Persona has the special "awakening" mode which works wildly different from guts but also may include damage reduction.
 
C

CurlyW

Member
Dahbomb said:
I know that which is why I am thinking... "why is Capcom doing it 3/5 and not 2/3?" "why doesn't the tournament follow suit and make everything else 3/5 as well for consistency?"
Click to expand...

Because no 16-man pool for SF4 would finish in 2 hours if you made it 3/5 the whole way. As it stands 16-man UMvC3 pools don't even finish in 2 hours with 3/5 (usually like 2 hours 15 minutes).

And having 3/5 for Top 8 is only as arbitrary as having 3/5 just for WF, LF, and GF. I don't think Capcom cares about whether 3/5 is better from a competitive standpoint. They want 3/5 for Top 8 so that there's more SF4 to watch.
 
S

Starfox327

Banned
Hey guys, I'm new to Ultra Street Fighter. Just started learning the game for the past couple weeks. Anyone on gaf want to play a few games tonight on PS4?
 
M

MasterHoodie

Member
Reposting this here.

I'm compiling a list of all the winquotes for the beta characters. I'm only missing three at this point.

I need the winquotes for the following:

Birdie def. Chun Li
Birdie def. M. Bison

Cammy def. M. Bison

If you can point me to a video where these quotes are shown, or if you knew them offhand it'd be a big help. A lot of videos like to cut off right when the KO happens, and it's super annoying.
Click to expand...
 
M

Mr. X

Member
Everybody wants more games, longer sets, etc. to figure out the best and get thier money's worth. There's an issue of limited resources. Time, consoles being used for other games, and so on.

Every match would be FT5 or 10 if we could have our way. Maybe a new event with a low player cap and high entry fee can do that.
 
A

Anne

Member
CurlyW said:
Because no 16-man pool for SF4 would finish in 2 hours if you made it 3/5 the whole way. As it stands 16-man UMvC3 pools don't even finish in 2 hours with 3/5 (usually like 2 hours 15 minutes).

And having 3/5 for Top 8 only as arbitrary as having 3/5 only for WF, LF, and GF. I don't think Capcom cares about whether it's 3/5 is better from a competitive standpoint. They want 3/5 for Top 8 so that there's more SF4 to watch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't even do 2/3 WF/LF for my tournaments unless a TO above my head requests it. I do 3/5 GF because I get weird looks for wanting 2/3.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
CurlyW said:
Because no 16-man pool for SF4 would finish in 2 hours if you made it 3/5 the whole way. As it stands 16-man UMvC3 pools don't even finish in 2 hours with 3/5 (usually like 2 hours 15 minutes).
Click to expand...
Has any tournament done 3/5 16 man pools for SF4 and seen how much longer it would be?

Like would it be longer than 3 hours? 4 hours?

I am curious to know of these statistics. Right now the best number we have are the top 8 times of 2/3 games vs 3/5 games of USF4. If there's a bracket reset then a USF4 top 8 can go close to 2 hour 50 minutes (with interruptions of course) but it can be finished in 2 hour 15 minutes as well (EVO 2013 for example).

If time wise we have a bracket of let's say 2 hours to 3 hours for a top 8... then I feel like a game should have as many games as it can to fill that time.

I am asking for as many games within a reasonable amount of time which is standard across all games.

Like say there's a hypothetical fighting game in the future where a a single "game" is half the length of a SF4 game. You can't make that game 2/3 all the way IMO despite it being "tournament standard" because that is not enough time for two players to play each other in a tournament match. I feel like there needs to be a solid minimum average time and a maximum average time and you set the number of games to accommodate that average time.

I would say the opposite as well. If there was a game that took longer to complete than a game of Tekken then I would not be asking for that game to be 3/5 either.
 
D

DRE Fei

Member
Mr. X said:
SFV isn't out yet. Matches are fast because the game is new. Wait and see when people learn to defend, space and move better and all parts are in the game.
Click to expand...

I think the matches will still be fast later on. Meaties are looking much stronger now because of the removal of dp fadc, removal of crouch tech and no more invincible backdash. I also think the stun meter being visible will cause more tilt/panic. I mean, you're gonna get knocked down and then be forced to deal with the meaty attack/grab mixup or risk it all on getting your dp blocked and get fucked. It's gonna be quite a few stomp matches if you can get the right reads.
 
A

alstein

Member
Dahbomb said:
I know that which is why I am thinking... "why is Capcom doing it 3/5 and not 2/3?" "why doesn't the tournament follow suit and make everything else 3/5 as well for consistency?"

If going forward Capcom mandates 3/5 for SFV then I would hope that tournament makes the rest of the event 3/5 as well. I know there's always the issue of time but that was also the reason giving for Marvel back in the day (too much time, too many players) but the quicker it's done the better off it is in the long run IMO.

Standards change. What was standard a while back isn't standard now. MVC2 was 2/3 standard, MVC3 is 3/5 standard now. Japan has started to change its tournament standards as well. With a lot of money and investment being put into a game like SFV... I would say that if I were a TO I would try to accommodate 3/5 SFV as much as I possibly could if the community was ok with it.
Click to expand...

If damage stays high or gets higher in SF5, 3/5 would work because there will be more of a random factor, just like there is in VF.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I am not really talking about "random" factor I am talking about average game lengths. SFV should have more games not because it's more "random" but because it actually takes less time to complete a set on average.

Because that is the crux of the argument here... completing pools/brackets on time and giving games their due. Of course games will more entrants will have more time to dedicated to them, that's just the nature of things but you need a baseline reasoning for games being certain number of sets.
 
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