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"The Power of the Cloud" - what happened?

I look forward to when this game launches and this thread is bumped again.

It'll either be a reversal of crow serving or a double helping!!!

I cant wait!
 

nib95

Banned

Each and every single one of these quoted posts just confirms exactly what I said. Hell I made the same comparison, and a bunch of defensive people lacking reading comprehension also tried to imply I was saying the two games were comparable graphically (including yourself if I remember correctly). Pretty amusing.
 
Each and every single one of these quoted posts just confirms exactly what I said. Hell I made the same comparison, and a bunch of defensive people lacking reading comprehension also tried to imply I was saying the two games were comparable graphically (including yourself if I remember correctly). Pretty amusing.
It's amusing how technical you get over wording to continue to try and be correct. People have made insane comments here, which we've provided, but none of them meet your criteria ever, regardless of how valid they may be as examples. The only thing amusing is how hard you're fighting this.
Hot crow pies here! Get your crow pie! Crow pies heya!
 

nib95

Banned
It's amusing how technical you get over wording to continue to try and be correct. People have made insane comments here, which we've provided, but none of them meet your criteria ever, regardless of how valid they may be as examples. The only thing amusing is how hard you're fighting this.

There is literally nothing insane about an opinion stating they don't think anything shown looks like it necessarily ought to require the cloud, or that they're not impressed by it for whatever reason. Do I agree? Nope. But just because there's an opposing opinion it doesn't automatically mean it's insane, suggesting the contrary is what is baffling.
 

Torment

Banned
It was total marketing bullshit. A 100% lie insofar as any actual, tangible effect on increasing the Xbones processing power. MS finally realized they weren't fooling most people once the truth got out there, so they've given up for now.

How so? Just because they weren't ready to show a tech demo at that point, you can't blame them for forward thinking. The problem is everyone is a cynic and nobody enjoys anything, they just question absolutely everything before said company can even defend themselves.
 
There is literally nothing insane about an opinion stating they don't think anything shown should necessarily be requiring of the cloud, or that they're not impressed by it for whatever reason. Do I agree? Nope. But just because there's an opposing opinion it doesn't automatically mean it's insane, suggesting the contrary is what is baffling.

What's baffling is comparing it to RFG and tech demos and saying they are equivalent. Not just once, but repeatedly. What's baffling is still calling it pr speak STILL. What's baffling is asking for examples, getting them, and then continuing to parade around like you're right.
 

Ricky_R

Member
I didn't waited for the gif to load up XD and was basing on what I remembered from the demo, but yeah, there's more interaction then what I remembered. Some pieces do interact with each other and may even cause other collapses.

But other than disappearing when they hit water some also disappear before that, so they probably set a budget for the simulation and remove some pieces from that once it start cracking up.

But yeah, crackdown simulation per se is not that far ahead of scream ride, but mainly on the scale, I stand corrected.

That's alright. It was more of an observation on my part. Still, Crackdown's destructibility looks great any way you put it.
 
How so? Just because they weren't ready to show a tech demo at that point, you can't blame them for forward thinking. The problem is everyone is a cynic and nobody enjoys anything, they just question absolutely everything before said company can even defend themselves.
We are hoping that one was a joke lol.
 

nib95

Banned
What's baffling is comparing it to RFG and tech demos and saying they are equivalent. Not just once, but repeatedly. What's baffling is still calling it pr speak STILL. What's baffling is asking for examples, getting them, and then continuing to parade around like you're right.

Holy shit. Forget it. Continue to obfuscate and mislead, putting words in people's mouths if it makes you feel any better. Because people comparing to RFG as an example of what was achievable last gen on much worse hardware, obviously means they think it looks comparable to what was shown today... :|

Moving on...
 

EvB

Member
Rather than everyone saying, "this will never work, it's all lies."
It would be nice if people just thought, "wouldn't that be cool! I hope it is true!"
 

Temporal Mess

Neo Member
It's in use, it just wasn't as big of a revolution Microsoft marketing folks wanted us to believe.

Being able to play the same save files across multiple machines through my Steam account is pretty rad.
 

c0de

Member
Rather than everyone saying, "this will never work, it's all lies."
It would be nice if people just thought, "wouldn't that be cool! I hope it is true!"

I like this post a lot but that would take generosity and other positive aspects of a personality which you don't find here. At least not very often. People even don't have the balls to say they were wrong.
 
Holy shit. Forget it. Continue to obfuscate and mislead, putting words in people's mouths if it makes you feel any better. Because people comparing to RFG as an example of what was achievable last gen on much worse hardware, obviously means they think it looks comparable to what was shown today... :|

Moving on...

But...they did lol. Numerous times. Literally said that exactly. Hello? Am I insane?
 

nib95

Banned
But...they did lol. Numerous times. Literally said that exactly. Hello? Am I insane?

I very much doubt you're insane, but lacking reading comprehension and the ability to understand context, perhaps.

Anyway, let's just leave it. The quotes are on the previous page for all to see.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
Rather than everyone saying, "this will never work, it's all lies."
It would be nice if people just thought, "wouldn't that be cool! I hope it is true!"

People are jaded by being let down in the past. I agree that a little optimism would be nice nowadays.
 

WolvenOne

Member
It was nothing, it was always nothing. I don't want to sound bitter here, but everyone should have known better. There's always been a good reason why, "The Cloud," is usually limited to storage applications, or simple remote applications.
 
I'm not sure anything really changed, even after today's c3 demo. It's pretty neat stuff but won't really change the landscape of current gen gaming drastically. That being said, it's good to see MS furthering cloud-assisted compute research. I'm sure this will have all sorts of spill over effects into different aspects of the interactive entertainment industry eventually.
 

EvB

Member
It was nothing, it was always nothing. I don't want to sound bitter here, but everyone should have known better. There's always been a good reason why, "The Cloud," is usually limited to storage applications, or simple remote applications.

Do you even know why this post has been bumped?
 

joecanada

Member
Crackdown demo looked good but the question is regarding cloud power. Bad Company 2 had some cool demolition effects but they were mostly canned. Obviously crackdown should be better these ten years later. We also don't know if crackdown demolition is all physics based do we?.
We also don't know if it has anything to do with cloud computing like does this mean a pc could not run that MP? Or a PS4? I guess that's what we'll find out.
Also I wonder if they'll be able to pull it off with no framerate drops that'll be tough. Look at bf4. Especially in MP with multiple people and Internet bottlenecks
 

Trup1aya

Member
There is literally nothing insane about an opinion stating they don't think anything shown looks like it necessarily ought to require the cloud, or that they're not impressed by it for whatever reason. Do I agree? Nope. But just because there's an opposing opinion it doesn't automatically mean it's insane, suggesting the contrary is what is baffling.

Your opinion conflicts with the facts. The developers have demonstrated how much computational power it takes to make this happen... And that power greatly exceeds what a single console can do... This isn't a matter of opinion.

Holy shit. Forget it. Continue to obfuscate and mislead, putting words in people's mouths if it makes you feel any better. Because people comparing to RFG as an example of what was achievable last gen on much worse hardware, obviously means they think it looks comparable to what was shown today... :|

Moving on...

What was the point of bringing up RFG if not to trivialize the technological accomplishment displayed by the crackdown demo?

Hey RFG came out last gen and did some cool things with destruction for its time and it's hardware limitations... But it doesn't hold a candle to what Crackdown is doing now...

So unless your sentiment is "My, we've come a long way since RFG", then your motives are clear... You were just throwing salt everywhere... But you can't sweep it up, cause this is the internet.
 
It was nothing, it was always nothing. I don't want to sound bitter here, but everyone should have known better. There's always been a good reason why, "The Cloud," is usually limited to storage applications, or simple remote applications.
There's no way this is real.
 
It was nothing, it was always nothing. I don't want to sound bitter here, but everyone should have known better. There's always been a good reason why, "The Cloud," is usually limited to storage applications, or simple remote applications.

Oh, you definitely don't sound bitter, trust me on that...
 

Synth

Member
Crackdown demo looked good but the question is regarding cloud power. Bad Company 2 had some cool demolition effects but they were mostly canned. Obviously crackdown should be better these ten years later. We also don't know if crackdown demolition is all physics based do we?.
We also don't know if it has anything to do with cloud computing like does this mean a pc could not run that MP? Or a PS4? I guess that's what we'll find out.
Also I wonder if they'll be able to pull it off with no framerate drops that'll be tough. Look at bf4. Especially in MP with multiple people and Internet bottlenecks

May be worth bringing yourself up to date.

Much longer version. Everyone saying this can't be done should take a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFWIpAPvF-Q&feature=youtu.be
 

adelante

Member
Holy shit. Forget it. Continue to obfuscate and mislead, putting words in people's mouths if it makes you feel any better. Because people comparing to RFG as an example of what was achievable last gen on much worse hardware, obviously means they think it looks comparable to what was shown today... :|

Moving on...
But you said this earlier on:

Not really sure if what we're seeing in Crackdown could be done at a local level, but based on games from previous generations, I don't see why not, but it's impossible for us to know. The hardware is much more powerful after all. So far the use of Cloud compute has been gimmicky at best, more so considering how much Microsoft pushed and promoted it. I suppose Crackdown could change that. The jury is still out, but so far the proof is not in the pudding.

And this..

We had stuff like this years ago, on considerably weaker hardware, without the power of cloud or whatever else….I'm sure they're using the cloud to help, but it's certainly not necessary for the specific example shown in that GIF.

*buncha red faction gifs*

You posted those gifs after making those statements, how else are we supposed to interpret your replies other than a clear attempt at diminishing the need for cloud-assisted physics? Sure, it's not about making the two games look graphically comparable. But it's a pretty obvious the RFG gifs were meant to imply that the leap in physics complexity isn't big enough to warrant "the power of the cloud".

The notion that physics complexity should improve proportionately to the increase in console power is baffling to me. Because if you were to subscribe to that logic, the XboxOne in theory shouldn't struggle to put out games at just twice the previous standard resolution. Aside from putting out destructibility, the game needs room for things that are par for the course in an openworld Crackdown game, not the least of which includes tall skyscrapers and heavy traffic/pedestrian count, something RFG didn't have. RFG also didn't have the verticality of Crackdown, which demands huge draw distances, so it requires a ton more visible geometry. I'm pretty impressed that they even got real-time screenspace reflections on a TON of surfaces in the alpha demo. I'd understand there wouldn't be any need for the cloud if the skyscaper debris had collapsed and clip/sink into the ground like a lot of structures do in RFG:

redfaction4uqkb.gif


But nope, in Crackdown, almost if not all debris chunk physically interact with each other in such a hugely satisfying manner.
 
But you said this earlier on:



And this..



You posted those gifs after making those statements, how else are we supposed to interpret your replies other than a clear attempt at diminishing the need for cloud-assisted physics? Sure, it's not about making the two games look graphically comparable. But it's a pretty obvious the RFG gifs were meant to imply that the leap in physics complexity isn't big enough to warrant "the power of the cloud".

The notion that physics complexity should improve proportionately to the increase in console power is baffling to me. Because if you were to subscribe to that logic, the XboxOne in theory shouldn't struggle to put out games at just twice the previous standard resolution. Aside from putting out destructibility, the game needs room for things that are par for the course in an openworld Crackdown game, not the least of which includes tall skyscrapers and heavy traffic/pedestrian count, something RFG didn't have. RFG also didn't have the verticality of Crackdown, which demands huge draw distances, so it requires a ton more visible geometry. I'm pretty impressed that they even got real-time screenspace reflections on a TON of surfaces in the alpha demo.

Well put. In a much better way than I did. Good post.
 
There is literally nothing insane about an opinion stating they don't think anything shown looks like it necessarily ought to require the cloud, or that they're not impressed by it for whatever reason. Do I agree? Nope. But just because there's an opposing opinion it doesn't automatically mean it's insane, suggesting the contrary is what is baffling.

Except if it didn't require the cloud, it wouldn't use the cloud.
Using the cloud is a lot more difficult tech wise and a persistent cost.
 

Skeff

Member
Your opinion conflicts with the facts. The developers have demonstrated how much computational power it takes to make this happen... And that power greatly exceeds what a single console can do... This isn't a matter of opinion.

The question was never if this could be done with the cloud, the reason the cloud was laughed at was because it was covered in the rabid dreams of fanboys and made to seem it was going to make up the difference between the hardware Specs graphically, which it will not do.

offloading physics to the cloud was always known to be possible because it was already happening on a smaller scale in online games for years. The question was always is it worth it and the answer was always no and probably still is no. It's almost 24 months after launch and we have some pre alpha footage in a controlled environment for a game tentatively slated for late 2016.

edit: not to mention, clouds aren't exclusive, third parties won't use it, and games that are either always online or require two modes to allow for offline play.
 
The question was never if this could be done with the cloud, the reason the cloud was laughed at was because it was covered in the rabid dreams of fanboys and made to seem it was going to make up the difference between the hardware Specs graphically, which it will not do.

offloading physics to the cloud was always known to be possible because it was already happening on a smaller scale in online games for years. The question was always is it worth it and the answer was always no and probably still is no. It's almost 24 months after launch and we have some pre alpha footage in a controlled environment for a game tentatively slated for late 2016.
I had to scroll all the way to the 5th comment to find an example.
Spin.

The cloud exists, but not for those reasons or uses.

This thread is full of people saying it's bs entirely. So, yes the question was whether it could be done.
 

iMax

Member
Each and every single one of these quoted posts just confirms exactly what I said. Hell I made the same comparison, and a bunch of defensive people lacking reading comprehension also tried to imply I was saying the two games were comparable graphically (including yourself if I remember correctly). Pretty amusing.

So what asinine point are you trying to make exactly?
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
But you said this earlier on:



And this..



You posted those gifs after making those statements, how else are we supposed to interpret your replies other than a clear attempt at diminishing the need for cloud-assisted physics? Sure, it's not about making the two games look graphically comparable. But it's a pretty obvious the RFG gifs were meant to imply that the leap in physics complexity isn't big enough to warrant "the power of the cloud".

The notion that physics complexity should improve proportionately to the increase in console power is baffling to me. Because if you were to subscribe to that logic, the XboxOne in theory shouldn't struggle to put out games at just twice the previous standard resolution. Aside from putting out destructibility, the game needs room for things that are par for the course in an openworld Crackdown game, not the least of which includes tall skyscrapers and heavy traffic/pedestrian count, something RFG didn't have. RFG also didn't have the verticality of Crackdown, which demands huge draw distances, so it requires a ton more visible geometry. I'm pretty impressed that they even got real-time screenspace reflections on a TON of surfaces in the alpha demo. I'd understand there wouldn't be any need for the cloud if the skyscaper debris had collapsed and clip/sink into the ground like a lot of structures do in RFG:

redfaction4uqkb.gif


But nope, in Crackdown, almost if not all debris chunk physically interact with each other in such a hugely satisfying manner.

Can't believe you write a post to torch nib95 and you write something like this to sweet up your view on Crackdown...

"Hugely satisfying manner"....hec, send that line to MS PR. "Our buildings collapse in a hugely satisfying manner, powered by the cloud of 20x Xbox One's"

This thread is so much fun to read from the sidelines my god.
 
Can't believe you write a post to torch nib95 and you write something like this to sweet up your view on Crackdown...

"Hugely satisfying manner"....hec, send that line to MS PR.

This thread is so much fun to read my god.
This thread is solid gold. Seriously. It will not stop delivering. 10/10 comment. Will read again.
 

rpg_fan

Member
Could we maybe wait until a game is released before 'serving crow'? A single game that will be released roughly 3 years after launch really doesn't do anything to refute the skeptics. I know some of you may want to loudly proclaim 'GOTCHA', but give it some time.

Going forward games will be using cloud compute. More than likely all computing will be as well. Doesn't change the fact that when announced, it was pr.
 

c0de

Member
Can't believe you write a post to torch nib95 and you write something like this to sweet up your view on Crackdown...

"Hugely satisfying manner"....hec, send that line to MS PR. "Our buildings collapse in a hugely satisfying manner, powered by the cloud of 20x Xbox One's"

This thread is so much fun to read from the sidelines my god.

And apparently it gets better and better :)
 

joecanada

Member
May be worth bringing yourself up to date.

That's cool, but it doesn't answer the question of whether you need the cloud to do this. Also how good it will run on the average Internet.

The chunks of stuff are cool but we haven't seen the rules either like do chunks hurt you? Can you shoot a tunnel through a building or does it just fall? Can you shoot a tunnel into the ground? It has physics but for what exactly? Buildings? Walls, everything?
Anyway looks good so far will see how it develops
 

adelante

Member
Can't believe you write a post to torch nib95 and you write something like this to sweet up your view on Crackdown...

"Hugely satisfying manner"....hec, send that line to MS PR. "Our buildings collapse in a hugely satisfying manner, powered by the cloud of 20x Xbox One's"

This thread is so much fun to read from the sidelines my god.

Well it is satisfying, appropriate when it's used to describe something of that high fidelity and complexity not seen in any other game, regardless of platform.

And I remember you. You've never been one to contribute much in discussions so that reply was expected. Something as trivial as a bunch of adjectives touched a nerve and you felt the need to be condescending. If it makes you happy, sure :)
 

driver116

Member
Huh? The entire concept is about using the cloud to handle complex physics calculations using the cloud, whilst maintaining a stable framerate. cel-shading is irrelevant...

You're trivializing the accomplishments here...

Again, refusing to acknowledge that it was a simple observation of the type of destruction, not the actual scale of said destruction or the load balancing of physics. The cel shading definaitly helps with the smooth execution. It's a nice evolution of the geo-mod tech, with the additional server offloading.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Can't believe you write a post to torch nib95 and you write something like this to sweet up your view on Crackdown...

"Hugely satisfying manner"....hec, send that line to MS PR. "Our buildings collapse in a hugely satisfying manner, powered by the cloud of 20x Xbox One's"

This thread is so much fun to read from the sidelines my god.

Front of the box material right thurrr.
 

JeffG

Member
Could we maybe wait until a game is released before 'serving crow'? A single game that will be released roughly 3 years after launch really doesn't do anything to refute the skeptics. I know some of you may want to loudly proclaim 'GOTCHA', but give it some time.

Going forward games will be using cloud compute. More than likely all computing will be as well. Doesn't change the fact that when announced, it was pr.

What someone says is "pr", might be viewed as "Vision"

Depends on what your agenda is.
 
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