On the scale and detail it's being shown in the video then yes it needs cloud computing to work like this on the Xbox One. Not sure how you could watch the entire video and come away not knowing that answer.
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"The Power of the Cloud" - what happened?
- Thread starter JohnnyFootball
- Start date
On the scale and detail it's being shown in the video then yes it needs cloud computing to work like this on the Xbox One. Not sure how you could watch the entire video and come away not knowing that answer.
Then again the importance that was placed on it before launch to deflect from the unflattering power comparisons with the ps4 might have completely soured everyone's take on what is a very limited feature. And by limited I mean to very few games and only whilst connected online.
JeffG
Member
It was there to deflect? Cite please.
llAuburnll
Banned
I fear for crows everywhere. They are heading for extinction. So many pies.
I'd say that actually having an on-screen indication of the amount of processing it's using (10x the console's local) does in fact answer the question of if it's required. That would leave only two possibilities really... either it needs it, or they're lying.
They seemed pretty clear that the entire building was created dynamically, and would react in the way the first wall did. Seeing as these buildings are actual structures that players are expected to actually play in and navigate, I'd think it's safe to assume that they don't just fall over as their only reaction to any firefight.
At this point, the argument that it doesn't work requires far more validation than the argument that it does imo.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...s-more-processing-power-from-cloud-computing/
Used to handle lighting and cloth physics apparently. Do you not recall the many interviews where this was brought up?
JeffG
Member
Read the article. Says more about vision than deflection.
So...better sharpen up those google skills
The question has been answered in the demo. It cannot be done without the cloud. At least not on current hardware... We just saw them do 11x what a single xb1 was capable of doing... And that's before adding NPCs, traffic, and enemies.
No clouds aren't exclusive, but few companies can afford a cloud solution that can compete with what MS already has... And none of those that can are game companies... Whether or not 3rd parties will use it is a moot point... As is the comment about making up a hardware gap...
That's not what this is about... Microsoft has demonstrated that new exciting technology works... In just the ways they always said it would. And while it might have taken longer than any one hoped (new technology takes time) it's here... It's time to stop denying it.
If you think it's "not worth it" after that demo. That's fine... But I can imagine I'm going to have some extremely fun times next spring thanks to it, so it's worth it to many... And many other people who have renewed excitement. And I'm sure other developers, whether they are 1st or 3rd parties will find even bigger and better things to do with the tech in the future.
http://stevivor.com/2013/05/microsoft-xbox-australia-on-some-of-todays-lingering-xbox-one-questions/
40x the power of a 360
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming
This article even compares it to a Titan.
Journey
Banned
Nib, it's not so much reading comprehension but more like a writing issue. Why would you defend people's comments about Crackdown only showing a standard generation leap difference in physics, when it's pretty clear that there's no hardware that's alone capable of that level of destruction unless baked. What we're seeing is not the product of standard generation progression, but a leap in physics that's revolutionary thanks to the use of multiple servers that handle the load.
Maybe since you asked who made the outrageous claims, and after people posted numerous replies, you now felt the need to defend their comments in order to save your own face, amirite? And what is the meaning of: ROTR: 6 Mo exclusivity in your avatar mean? Is that your way of saying you refuse to eat crow?
What makes you think it was to deflect? All signs point to they were developing this technology all along with intentions of using it...
Perhaps the brought it up, because , you know, it's something they were working on, and they wanted to let people know what they were up to...
Which is pretty much what is done at trade shows...
JeffG
Member
Still has nothing to do with "deflection"
Whatever point you are trying to make isn't answering the premise you forwarded to us as fact. That Microsoft brought in the "cloud" to deflect unflattering power comparisons with the ps4.
All these articles are about how they see the vision of the future. That vision is based on a infrastructure which may (or may not) be advanced enough to make the vision a reality in a timely manner. But that is a different issue.
JeffG
Member
Naw...because the Conspiracy theory, tin foil hat wearing, circle jerk crowd will just move the goal posts.
No, we'll have to wait for NXGamer to eyeball it.
Journey
Banned
Well it is satisfying, appropriate when it's used to describe something of that high fidelity and complexity not seen in any other game, regardless of platform.
And I remember you. You've never been one to contribute much in discussions so that reply was expected. Something as trivial as a bunch of adjectives touched a nerve and you felt the need to be condescending. If it makes you happy, sure
If any nerve was touched, the one that induces laughter was probably it.
That won't help... The goal posts just keep moving...
First is was just "PR bullshit"
Then it was an "impossibility... A joke"
After yesterday's demo, it was "unfeasible"...
This morning for a couple hrs it was "prohibitively expensive"
"You don't need no clouds to do dat!" Where's Da Powah?"
Then the second demo was released
Then it's "meh, I could do this on RFG years ago"
Then they shit was debunked after about 12 hrs of mental gymnastics and it becomes
"But is it even fun, bro?"
There was even a guy who suggested the destruction needs to be toned down because it was a "waste of resources"... That's right, someone's negative comment suggested that Da Clowd is too powerful for its own good!!!
The game will release and DF will do there thing, and people will still deny that this is any sort of accomplishment... I guess this is what happens when you try to DRM us MS... Nothing you do will ever be enough...
visiblemode
Member
A huge part of the problem is the MS defense force. (Not all MS super fans, but the aggressive minority)
The truth, imo, is partly obscured because any time you question MS in any way, in an Xbox focused thread anywhere on the internet, you get attacked with rheroric like a democrat guesting on Fox News.
I say this as someone who believes you should buy as many platforms as you can afford. Someone who has strong affections for all platforms.
Yet when I question why Sony did X. People mostly say "good point." When I say "Nintendo has to start doing Y." Mostly people say "worth considering."
Yet when MS releases a demo, like the Crackdown one from yesterday and I say "seems really early, devs deserve more time to polish what I assume is going to be an awesome game." An X-force emerges from a puddle of Rush Limbaugh's stem cells to question my every motivation.
Why can't my fandom for MS be tinged with the same healthy skepticism of my fandom for every single other product? Why am I always forced to "take it or leave it?"
That is why this cloud computing thing gets so heated, because as soon as people started saying "how would it work?" The hordes emerged from the shadows telling is how to enjoy our hobby. Naturally people resent his and attack back.
I don't condone it either way, I really just think everything should be an open discussion. The end product will settle it eventually, anyway...but why not discuss it openly and with civility until then?
FTFY. It's sad when people are incapable of having a proper discussion so for me it's just easier to engage with them on their level like so:
Lol!!
Adam_Roman
Member
I'm really interested to see how this works out for them. I'd love to see a solid launch, but I've grown very wary of servers staying online on launch day for big games.
Pathfinder
Member
The problem is, most people are not asking "How would/could it work?"
Most people are either saying simply "It can't work", "It's MS bullshit", or they're making a tired joke about the "power of the cloud" or "secret sauce" or posting their favorite GIF.
If we had more constructive conversations about cloud computing, threads wouldn't get so heated. Unfortunately, the constructive criticisms we do get are easily overshadowed by everything else.
How can it be "moving goal post" when MS set the goal post at 20x the power of the xbox one?
With this demo they say is up to 15x the power of the "physic processing power set aside by the developer for their game on xbone processor" is how high they have gotten so far. Love to see the mental gymnastics it takes to make MS statement true.
Now people are acting like this is the first game that even use "the cloud" on xbone. Forza drivatar "Forza Motorsport 5 is driven by the cloud" and titanfall AI bots.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/titanfall-dev-demystifies-xbox-one-cloud-technology
Just funny....
With this demo they say is up to 15x the power of the "physic processing power set aside by the developer for their game on xbone processor" is how high they have gotten so far. Love to see the mental gymnastics it takes to make MS statement true.
Now people are acting like this is the first game that even use "the cloud" on xbone. Forza drivatar "Forza Motorsport 5 is driven by the cloud" and titanfall AI bots.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/titanfall-dev-demystifies-xbox-one-cloud-technology
Just funny....
Yh hopefully they have a Beta or two. Personally believe all multiplayer focused games should go through a Beta(Server stress test)
At no point did I say they brought it in to deflect, I said it has been used to deflect. Perhaps deflect was the wrong word? Should I have said distract? Overstate the power of the xb1? Make some people think their xb1 is going to have the graphics if a Titan? It was brought in because it was something they were working on for gaming. It was overstated in 2013 to try and diminish the technical differences between the consoles by pr and journalists, the reason so many people have soured to the cloud are because of articles like the ones posted, from reveal to launch "the power of the cloud" was almost constant, despite not being ready.
JeffG
Member
Keep dancing. Perfect Internet two-step
Legitimately the biggest load of bullshit I've read here in my years on GAF. Every fan base is just as bad as each other with a certain one being a lot more vocal this time around due to the numerical advantage.
The revision going on in this post isn't just nonsense it's fucking offensive. Trying to pretend that you and everybody else are attacked by angry MS fanboys whilst everybody else holds themselves to a higher standard? Really?
Bitch Pudding
Member
Oh, the demolition looks very good. Everything collapses like a house of cards. And that's one of its issues. There is no feel of "weight" on it. Everything crumbles just too fast, as far as I'm concerned.
But the rest of the game looks rather average, if that. If someone had shown me the game demo without background info I would never have had any doubts that this would be possible on a standard / "offline" XBOX One. Sorry, but it doesn't look impressive enough to point out the necessity of a cloud behind its back.
Funny thing is, it actually looks like a funny game, somehow lame that nobody can be bothered to talk about that, and that's the real problem here.
Great retort, you've really added a lot to your point of view there and moved the conversation forward, almost as good as:
I'm out.
JeffG
Member
<snicker>
N7Commander95
Member
It's like hes never actually been on this forum, or hes genuinely insane.
Pathfinder
Member
It's not called a pre-Alpha for nothing.
They've got a year to improve the weight of objects, physics, and models. We also still haven't seen much of the game itself yet. We're just assuming it's going to be fun because it's Crackdown.
I don't necessarily disagree with you... but you could have made this post seem at least a little less angry, considering the claim you're responding to...
But yea, I try to debate reasonably with people here that have differing views. On the topic of cloud processing though (or tbh many things regarding the X1) the people I'm responding honestly aren't looking to have an actual conversation. I mean, look at the opening pages of this thread... does it look like people really wanted to discuss how it may work?
This would honestly be the wrong thread for that tbh. Hell it's the wrong thread to even be talking about its general graphics.
Dreadx_Jecht
Banned
Well this has become quite a shit-show. Guys just buy everyone console and ignore the bragging fanboy hordes.
Well, to be fair, that's not the way that it was being framed initially. I don't mean by MS, but by end users. It was to Microsoft's benefit to just kinda let people think what they wanted without clarifying.
There was a lot of talk about that 20x (or whatever number it was) being taken very literally. Even early on, I think most understood that some things could be offloaded to the internet. But there were some (maybe many, it's been a while) claims being made that the cloud could offload pretty much everything. Higher resolutions, higher framerates, etc. All through the cloud. That's where most of the skepticism came (and still comes) from.
Well it's very early, and their destruction modeling can change before this thing is done.
JeffG
Member
It's not called a pre-Alpha for nothing.
They've got a year to improve the weight of objects, physics, and models. We also still haven't seen much of the game itself yet. We're just assuming it's going to be fun because it's Crackdown.
Pre-Alpha? Looked like a proof of concept app. No sense into putting a lot of work to make it "beautiful" when its just there to compile fast and test code.
Buying every console very often doesn't mean much... everyone will tend to prefer one anyway. Basically if they could only own one, they'd pick that specific machine.
I've had every major console in every generation going back to the 8bit days... never stopped me from talking about how shit the N64 was/is/will always be, lol.
Pathfinder
Member
Very true. Lots of people came up with their own idea about what Microsoft meant due to lack of complete information. That led people to believe that it was Microsoft's goal to somehow improve the innards of the weaker console by way of the cloud and software, which sounds ridiculous when you think about it.
Obviously now we know their intent was to offload heavy tasks to the cloud therefore allowing developers to better use those freed up resources, but they heavily muddled the message.
Pathfinder
Member
No, this was the proof-of-concept app that they showed last year at Build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECsbaO1XGBU
JeffG
Member
Looks like an evolution of that prototype. Bigger sandbox to play in. He did say they "placed" explosives so that they could demonstrate the entire city block coming down
JeffG
Member
People are not impressed if the fact that something actual works is contrary to some belief they hold close to their being.
I don't necessarily disagree with you... but you could have made this post seem at least a little less angry, considering the claim you're responding to...
Not anger more disbelief that anybody could claim that. For the record -
visiblemode
Member
Not going to get into a big argument with you, yet the hyperbole in your response, kinda sums up my point.
I'm relating my experience and many others I know in IRL say the exact same thing. How experience can be false only speaks to perception. Since I've clearly stated platform neutrality only a leap of paranoia can turn my observation into a biased distoryion some sort.
Either way, to address others more directly, I just don't understand how doubting tech is bad. It won't change anything. From day one I expressed tons of concerns about PS Now and they were legit, streaming isn't quite ready. Did I cause it to not be quite ready because of my doubt? Of course not.
If everyone did nothing but agree what would be he point of discussing anything?
What you said in the CD thread:
Sorry but I really doubt you would leave a Sony or Nintendo thread without some heat discussion. Actually I doubt you would even post like that if it wasn't on a Xbox thread, looking at your post history.
I dont know. I think its just stupid enter in a game thread and say its was early announced. Like, how can you know better than the publisher or the dev when they are ready to show their own game? Even so, there's a lot of games that are showed in alpha stage.
Doubting tech (especially in the absence of any proof of the tech working) is perfectly fine, and to be expected. However, claiming that something is 100% undeniably BS, is a different matter entirely, and has been the vast, vast majority of all opposing posts. Nearly all my posts in this thread were attempts to explain how cloud processing could possibly be of benefits to games, and nearly every person challenging them wasn't simply claiming that we don't yet know, or it's not yet proven... they were pretty much all claims that it's definitely bogus, and that I'm being naive as fuck to even suggest it could help with something as simple as AI responses.
Also, you should never try to claim that only one fanbase has crazy aggressive defenders... I've been here a decade and could quote you some serious shit from all sides. Someone arguing their view isn't being aggressive, and really that's all most people here are doing in regards to stating that the cloud stuff has merit. I'd argue that the detractors have been far more aggressive in general. Only one side has consistently used the argument "we weren't stupid enough to fall for it", after all.
EDIT: Alright, you lead off in your first sentence with "fanboys". I may be giving you too much credit here.
The thing is that people weren't denying the tech. they were trying to downplay it by saying stuff like RFG did this 10 years ago and the jump ain't that big.
EDIT: needed to word thing better.
Shia_Labeouf
Banned
Probably. I know you're being sarcastic, but what you're saying is true so I'm going to pretend that you aren't wrong for a minute.
N7Commander95
Member
Mate sorry, the jump is pretty massive. RFG did destruction on a much smaller scale with the destructible installations being themselves rather spread out on a desert plant.
Crackdown 3 is showing an entire City, one unbroken large map that is 100% destructible.
To claim that RFG comes any close to what has already been displayed by Crackdown is intellectual dishonesty