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[krae_man]

They never would have been able to drop it completely. Offering a no gamepad SKU would have required they sell a gamepad separately and one of those things at a standard controller mark up would have caused more problems then it solved.

They were kind of stuck with the decision to include it.

 

[greg400]

Wait, you're actually arguing that going through menus to select a jump point is faster than simply tapping a point on the map?

Have you even played the game?

I'm currently sitting at an A- ranking, thanks for asking. Hitting select and looking at a map would not be slower than having to look down at the GamePad. Having a minimap would be faster for looking at where your teammates are and what needs to be covered.

 

[Gsnap]

It's funny how people want to lower the skill ceiling of Splatoon.

And how they think their cumbersome "solution" is somehow better than what we already have. "But it could be done if you flip around backwards and say Beetlejuice 3 times." Yes, it could but that would be worse, so why would you even want it in the first place??

The gamepad rocks. They may not have even considered making Splatoon or Mario Maker if it didn't exist. Or Nintendoland. And as we've seen from how ZombiU was changed for the port, the additions it brings are not as insignificant as people claim.

Basically, the Wii U has a million problems and dropping the Gamepad wouldn't have fixed anything. So it's best that they kept it around so that we could at least get some good use out of it.

 

[ViciousDS]

Since we just had the other fud thread about the gamepad just some quick infos about it.

- every single game uses it. And yes, Off TV play and inventories count. Its not the question "which game uses it anyways?" Every game does.

- It has a 9-axis gyro not to be found in competing controllers. Splatoon is more about this than the screen for me. Dual analog is so last gen.

- It has a mic and stereo speakers
- A build in nfc reader
- a camera (which is criminaly underused)
- a sensor bar
- headphone jack
- An IR blaster
- on board processors enabling quicklaunch
- and yes, a touchscreen on ipad2 levels.
- lag free 60fps stteaming


A shame to see this awesome piece of tech so hated by some.

Only gripe is the screen isn't really HD and the game pad is forced, where it should have always been optional and an enthusiast option. Also it's a glorified tablet......lol

 

[Supermanisdead]

- and yes, a touchscreen on ipad2 levels.

what?

 

[RE_Player]

Some of these reasons in support of the Gamepad are really baffling. Do some people honestly think they couldn't do Amiibo or make a game like Splatoon without the Gamepad? Have a separate accessory to scan Amiibo, like the base in other toys to life products, and have motion capabilities in the Pro controller.

Are you going to lose some of the function the Gamepad has had in some titles? Of course. But seeing as it majorly contributed to the cost of the console and hasn't been as revolutionary as originally planned it certainly isn't a crazy idea to throw out there that the console may have been more of a success without it.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I think his/her point was that it could still be done. I'm not sure having a one second delay to use a map with a standard controller would be "completely inferior".

It would. Having to aim it in that way affects accuracy, especially when you're trying to predict enemy movement. I mean, sure it can be done, what can't? The point is that it needs to be done well and in a way that doesn't affect gameplay negatively. There are other drawbacks as well.

 

[TI82]

No. Without the gamepad the Wii U would have basically nothing to differentiate its hardware from the other consoles other than 'much weaker'. Splatoon is way better with motion controls once you get over the learning curve.

Dropping the Wii U gamepad would allow them to design a much stronger system and still retain profits...

 

[greg400]

It would. Having to aim it in that way affects accuracy, especially when you're trying to predict enemy movement. I mean, sure it can be done, what can't? The point is that it needs to be done well and in a way that doesn't affect gameplay negatively. There are other drawbacks as well.

It would make the game better, is what it would do. There is no time to look at the map unless you just died with the current set-up of the second screen.

 

[James Scott]

Dropping the Wii U gamepad would allow them to design a much stronger system and still retain profits...

In 2013? No

 

[Interceptor]

what?

I know, facts are surprising when the internet has told you its a gameboy screen from 1989.

 

[RichiRamjag]

It would make the game better, is what it would do. There is no time to look at the map unless you just died with the current set-up of the second screen.

Not possible to look at the map? What have we all been doing since release? Come on man...

 

[Reset]

Yes. The gamepad is useless.

 

[Supermanisdead]

My point is that if the gamepad didn't exist, Splatoon could have easily existed in the same capacity. Splatoon's reliance on the gamepad is not equal to say, Skyward Sword's reliance on the Wii remote or Kirby Canvas Curse's reliance on the DS touch screen. The gamepad features were included just to make use of their primary control method. If it didn't exist, Splatoon still would.

I know, facts are surprising when the internet has told you its a gameboy screen from 1989.

Do you mind linking the specs? Do you have a source to back it up; because I find it pretty unbelievable.

 

[greg400]

Not possible to look at the map? What have we all been doing since release? Come on man...

Where did I say it's not possible? It's slow and cumbersome to look at the GamePad screen and divert your attention from the action. Any second spent you not looking at the main screen is a second spent you getting shot.

 

[plagiarize]

Some of these reasons in support of the Gamepad are really baffling. Do some people honestly think they couldn't do Amiibo or make a game like Splatoon without the Gamepad? Have a separate accessory to scan Amiibo, like the base in other toys to life products, and have motion capabilities in the Pro controller.

Are you going to lose some of the function the Gamepad has had in some titles? Of course. But seeing as it majorly contributed to the cost of the console and hasn't been as revolutionary as originally planned it certainly isn't a crazy idea to throw out there that the console may have been more of a success without it.

Price has never been the problem. It's always been the cheapest of the current gen consoles hasn't it? Removing the unique selling point... killing the pack in game. Killing Mario Maker... to make it a bit cheaper?

How would they have marketed it without the gamepad? Now dropping the game pad, getting over the silly idea of the console having to use next to no electricity (so that the CPU wasn't weaker than the Xbox 360s) and putting that cost into a more powerful system might have helped things... maybe.

But as it is, a Wii U without a gamepad is a system like the PS4 or Xbox One with nothing unique about it. Take the 3rd party support the Wii U had and cut it even further. Drop some of the first party titles. Take others and make them a bit less interesting. And win?

Yes, Splatoon could work on any console, but it was developed by a team that was specifically tasked with making games that used the gamepad... so would it have been developed?

 

[GamerJM]

Splatoon could have just

ya know

not be designed with the Gamepad functions in mind. It would be a different game than the Splatoon we have now but it's not like it would have been unplayable.

 

[TI82]

In 2013? No

You don't like an extra $75-100 system budget would allow a stronger system?

 

[Azure Dream]

Only gripe is the screen isn't really HD and the game pad is forced, where it should have always been optional and an enthusiast option. Also it's a glorified tablet......lol

It's not a glorified tablet, because a tablet can stray more than 10 feet from a base station and still function by itself.

 

[Poltergust]

Hitting select and looking at a map would not be slower than having to look down at the GamePad.

Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. How would you solve the issue with Squid Beakons cluttering up the map? It would take a significant amount of time to choose the precise one you want to jump to. How would they all be organized? What about the spawn point?

And I'd like to once again bring up that having a map constantly on screen would be distracting; it would obscure a large section of the screen. What if an enemy is behind that overlay? What if you can't tell what color ink is behind it due to the transparency effects of the ink on the map? What about all the objects that can be seen on it and constantly flashing, like Squid Beakons?

You're making it seem like it'd be simple to just put the map there, but doing so would only open a whole can of worms in regards to the UI design. It would not mesh well with the game as it is.

 

[Interceptor]

You don't like an extra $75-100 system budget would allow a stronger system?

Sometimes i think you don't want to understand .

 

[James Scott]

You don't like an extra $75-100 system budget would allow a stronger system?

The system launched in 2012. That's not what the OP is asking.

 

[plagiarize]

Dropping the Wii U gamepad would allow them to design a much stronger system and still retain profits...

That's a different discussion, and one in which I wouldn't have come out so strongly in favor of keeping the gamepad.

 

[TI82]

Sometimes i think you don't want to understand .

Then explain it, no need to be rude.

The system launched in 2012. That's not what the OP is asking.

Then I guess I misunderstood the question

 

[RichiRamjag]

Where did I say it's not possible? It's slow and cumbersome to look at the GamePad screen and divert your attention from the action. Any second spent you not looking at the main screen is a second spent you getting shot.

You said there is "no time". "No" would imply none or not possible. Which it is, for many who play. I'm sorry, but that's just silly to me.

No. You people made up your mind that you didn't want one. If good games can't sell a console nothing can.

Also in 2013 the regular complaints online were that Nintendo was confusing the consumer with what the Wii U was and I don't see how an entirely new SKU without the GamePad would have made that situation better.

There was a big drought of games as well. That was the biggest issue imo. I sold my launch Wii u and didn't buy another until earlier this year after the release of Mario 3d, kart, smash, etc. Had it launched with some of those heavy hitters, then it would have done much better.

 

[jholmes]

No. You people made up your mind that you didn't want one. If good games can't sell a console nothing can.

Also in 2013 the regular complaints online were that Nintendo was confusing the consumer with what the Wii U was and I don't see how an entirely new SKU without the GamePad would have made that situation better.

 

[greg400]

Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. How would you solve the issue with Squid Beakons cluttering up the map? It would take a significant amount of time to choose the precise one you want to jump to.

And I'd like to once again bring up that having a map constantly on screen would be distracting; it would obscure a large section of the screen. What if an enemy is behind that overlay? What if you can't tell what color ink is behind it due to the transparency effects of the ink on the map? What about all the objects that can be seen on it and constantly flashing, like Squid Beakons?

You're making it seem like it'd be simple to just put the map there, but doing so would only open a whole can of worms in regards to the UI design. It would not mesh well with the game as it is.

I can't.... is someone seriously arguing that having a mini-map on screen would be distracting? Is this real life? Is Splatoon the first shooter you've played?

I've already described squid beacons to you, put them in a small list or simply let the player to cycle through them using the D-Pad. There can only be 4 on the map at a given time from your team.

You said there is "no time". "No" would imply none or not possible. Which it is, for many who play. I'm sorry, but that's just silly to me.

You should look up what a figure of speech is. There is not literally "no time".

 

[Interceptor]

My point is that if the gamepad didn't exist, Splatoon could have easily existed in the same capacity. Splatoon's reliance on the gamepad is not equal to say, Skyward Sword's reliance on the Wii remote or Kirby Canvas Curse's reliance on the DS touch screen. The gamepad features were included just to make use of their primary control method. If it didn't exist, Splatoon still would.



Do you mind linking the specs? Do you have a source to back it up; because I find it pretty unbelievable.

I'm on mobile but its on wiki. The ppi/dpi is pretty much the same. (Actually the gamepad is higher..) One has a strong brand, the other one not. Here it is the second coming of jesus, there it is horrendous and fisherprice. Labels are important.

 

[VertPin]

Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. How would you solve the issue with Squid Beakons cluttering up the map? It would take a significant amount of time to choose the precise one you want to jump to. How would they all be organized? What about the spawn point?

And I'd like to once again bring up that having a map constantly on screen would be distracting; it would obscure a large section of the screen. What if an enemy is behind that overlay? What if you can't tell what color ink is behind it due to the transparency effects of the ink on the map? What about all the objects that can be seen on it and constantly flashing, like Squid Beakons?

You're making it seem like it'd be simple to just put the map there, but doing so would only open a whole can of worms in regards to the UI design. It would not mesh well with the game as it is.

mini-maps seriously wouldn't hurt the games UI design dude

 

[plagiarize]

Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. How would you solve the issue with Squid Beakons cluttering up the map? It would take a significant amount of time to choose the precise one you want to jump to.

And I'd like to once again bring up that having a map constantly on screen would be distracting; it would obscure a large section of the screen. What if an enemy is behind that overlay? What if you can't tell what color ink is behind it due to the transparency effects of the ink on the map? What about all the objects that can be seen on it and constantly flashing, like Squid Beakons?

You're making it seem like it'd be simple to just put the map there, but doing so would only open a whole can of worms in regards to the UI design. It would not mesh well with the game as it is.

Does it work putting the map on screen in Zombi compared to how Zombi U did it? Sure.

Is it ideal?

No.

 

[Azriell]

The Gamepad was a terrible gimmick to base an entire console generation on. Nintendo should have ditched it at their earliest convenience and sold it separately as an accessory.

Pretty much every game could be done nearly as well, if not just as well, without the Gamepad. The few games that use it really well do not outweigh what the Gamepad has cost the company.

 

[Roo]

The price cut wasn't enough for most people, apparently (I bought a WiiU at launch, if it matters). A WiiU with 32gb HDD for $299.99 is way overpriced.

A lot of people think the gamepad is heavy and useless, sorry.



I wasn't meaning to offend you, the avatar quote was simply a joke. Don't quite understand why you're so bitter.

Avatar quoting is often used as a way to make a post less valid just because someone has in their pic something related to the subject in question. I do apologize if I sounded rude.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I can't.... is someone seriously arguing that having a mini-map on screen would be distracting? Is this real life? Is Splatoon the first shooter you've played?

I've already described squid beacons to you, put them in a small list or simply let the player to cycle through them using the D-Pad. There can only be 4 on the map at a given time from your team.



You should look up what a figure of speech is. There is not literally "no time".

It's whatever man, I'm not gonna debate about your inability to do two things at once. I personally prefer it this way and don't find the alternatives attractive. I'm moving on.

The gamepad isn't the problem. The console hardware (and most notably that woefully underclocked CPU) is a bigger problem. The branding was a problem. The software was a problem.

Nintendo will probably get away with their ridiculous lower power / heat and size requirements for their next console looking at what the Shield micro console can do here in 2015, but it really burned them with the Wii U.

That's another big issue, the hardware isn't attractive to third-parties as any game is a lesser version and as a result either releases late or just doesn't sell as well as ps4, xbone. I knew there was a problem when Disney infinity on ps3, looked and ran better than the Wii u version.

 

[ugh_the_boot]

The Wii U gamepad is a failure imo. Screen resolution is garbage, the controls are positioned and spaced badly, the whole thing is too bulky, forces dual screen in most games, forces motion controls/mic/gyroscope features in some games when these features are absolute shit. How does blowing into a controller help you become more immersed in a game? It does the exact opposite for me and rips me out of the gameplay so I have to look down and akwardly blow into the mic port. It is definately not fun, well not after the first time you do it. As much as I hated the wiimote I hate this thing even more and goes down as the worst controller i've used in a mainstream console.

 

[plagiarize]

The Gamepad was a terrible gimmick to base an entire console generation on. Nintendo should have ditched it at their earliest convenience and sold it separately as an accessory.

Pretty much every game could be done nearly as well, if not just as well, without the Gamepad. The few games that use it really well do not outweigh what the Gamepad has cost the company.

The gamepad isn't the problem. The console hardware (and most notably that woefully underclocked CPU which is the main thing that cost them third party support) is a bigger problem. The branding was a problem. The software was a problem.

Nintendo will probably get away with their ridiculous lower power / heat and size requirements for their next console looking at what the Shield micro console can do here in 2015, but it really burned them with the Wii U.

 

[Neoxon]

The Wii U gamepad is a failure imo. Screen resolution is garbage, the controls are positioned and spaced badly, the whole thing is too bulky, forces dual screen in most games, forces motion controls/mic/gyroscope features in some games when these features are absolute shit. How does blowing into a controller help you become more immersed in a game? It does the exact opposite for me and rips me out of the gameplay so I have to look down and akwardly blow into the mic port. It is definately not fun, well not after the first time you do it. As much as I hated the wiimote I hate this thing even more and goes down as the worst controller i've used in a mainstream console.

Obviously Super Mario Maker isn't out yet, but have you played Splatoon?

 

[greg400]

It's whatever man, I'm not gonna debate about your inability to do two things at once. I personally prefer it this way and don't find the alternatives attractive. I'm moving on.

Lol wtf are you talking about, here you are claiming I'm incapable of doing two things at once yet I'm sitting at an A- rank in the game. The game would be better with a mini-map.

 

[Azure Dream]

Does it work putting the map on screen in Zombi compared to how Zombi U did it? Sure.

Is it ideal?

No.

I haven't played Splatoon extensively, just the Testfire, but it seemed like a simple "Hold a Button -> Map slides onto screen quickly" would do the trick. "But you won't be able to see-" You already take your view away to look at the Gamepad, unless you hold it up extremely high, so you have that 'transition time" anyway. And the map could be slightly transparent, so you'd be losing less view of the action.

I don't know all the Single Player gimmicks and how they're implemented, so I can't guarantee that'd work for everything.


Super Mario Maker is used well on the Gamepad (finally, after Smash did such an awful job at a stage maker), but since the whole game is laid out in 16x16 grids, traditional controls could've been very feasible. It's a bit more natural with the Gamepad, but all you're really getting is stylus input (and very limited microphone). The DS and 3DS had that anyway.

 

[DietRob]

I don't think it would matter much. They brought a knife to the gun fight this gen. I got one around a month ago and it's the accounted for the most fun I've had this gen. So yea maybe if the price point could stay at or around the $100 price more people would be able to experience the amazing first party lineup

 

[anothertech]

MS dropped the kinect and the price and won its place back (somewhat) in North America.

I think dropping the pad and the price would have done wonders for the wiiU. Maybe not have saved it mind you, but would have given it a better fighting chance at least.

The best experiences with the console are still with the touch pad though. IMO

 

[TI82]

Obviously Super Mario Maker isn't out yet, but have you played Splatoon?

I have and man I wish I could use the pro controller. Can't play for more than an hour at a time because the wii u gamepad hurts my hands.

 

[RE_Player]

Price has never been the problem. It's always been the cheapest of the current gen consoles hasn't it? Removing the unique selling point... killing the pack in game. Killing Mario Maker... to make it a bit cheaper?

How would they have marketed it without the gamepad? Now dropping the game pad, getting over the silly idea of the console having to use next to no electricity (so that the CPU wasn't weaker than the Xbox 360s) and putting that cost into a more powerful system might have helped things... maybe.

But as it is, a Wii U without a gamepad is a system like the PS4 or Xbox One with nothing unique about it. Take the 3rd party support the Wii U had and cut it even further. Drop some of the first party titles. Take others and make them a bit less interesting. And win?

Yes, Splatoon could work on any console, but it was developed by a team that was specifically tasked with making games that used the gamepad... so would it have been developed?

I'm not saying the Wii U would be a guaranteed success without the Gamepad but it certainly isn't a crazy scenario to throw out there considering the trajectory of the console. I'll throw out other scenarios from the good points you brought up that may have worked, or maybe not have worked because in the end we are discussing "what if" scenarios.

- Killing the pack in game? Considering the Wii U's first year I don't think the pack in game was moving a lot of consoles anyway. Perhaps bundling the the Wii U with a Pro controller and a couple of Wiimotes instead and creating a very robust Wii Sports successor could have captured that hardcore and casual market again.
- Mario Maker looks to be a fantastic title but in terms of a system seller that remains to be seen (I hope it moves units)
- Maybe market the console with all the strengths of the Wii, family and local play, with all the benefits seen from PlayStation and Microsoft in terms of online shops, online multiplayer etc. Create a console that really does appeal to everyone. For how much Sony likes to promote games like Towerfall the PS4 and Xbox One aren't very local friendly.
- Maybe the third parties would have supported it more without the Gamepad? This is obviously a huge question mark but I don't think it could be worse than what it already is.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I have and man I wish I could use the pro controller. Can't play for more than an hour at a time because the wii u gamepad hurts my hands.

Yeah, it can be unwieldy at times. I'd hope any successor (if there is one) would be a bit more ergonomically friendly.

 

[Interceptor]

I have and man I wish I could use the pro controller. Can't play for more than an hour at a time because the wii u gamepad hurts my hands.

Stop holding it above your head. This should be a popup in every game.

 

[TI82]

Yeah, it can be unwieldy at times. I'd hope any successor (if there is one) would be a bit more ergonomically friendly.

Something like this would be so much more welcome if they had to do the screen crap again

 

[Nanashrew]

The Amiibo support is nice.

Couldn't Splatoon be patched with pro controller support?

Pro Controller doesn't have gyro so it's a no go for me.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Something like this would be so much more welcome if they had to do the screen crap again

Damn, I like that. Would be much better.

 

[Poltergust]

I can't.... is someone seriously arguing that having a mini-map on screen would be distracting? Is this real life? Is Splatoon the first shooter you've played?

I've already described squid beacons to you, put them in a small list or simply let the player to cycle through them using the D-Pad.

That's the thing, how would the list refer to the Squid Beakons? Numbering them won't work because you'd run into the problem of having to look up a number in order to find the beakon you want to jump to, instead of just immediately selecting the beakon itself. And I hope you realize how slow cycling through the beakons (+ other jump points) would be in comparison to how the touchscreen works.

Also, a lot of shooters don't keep entire maps visible on screen during normal gameplay, usually a radar system or something of the sort. Furthermore, maps that do get displayed are typically as barebones as possible to prevent screen clutter. Let's contrast that with Splatoon which can have:

-Ink trails (which can potentially mask enemy/ink colors behind it)
-Teammate locations
-Enemy locations
-Object locations (Squid Beakons, Mines, etc)
-Objective locations and statuses

All of these need to constantly be on display in order for the map to work as it does now. Are you going to argue that the combination of all of these elements would not be distracting or take up a lot of screen real estate?

There can only be 4 on the map at a given time from your team.

Wrong. There can be up to 12 Squid Beakons, 3 per teammate. The spawn point and the 3 teammates brings the maximum possible amount of jump points to 16. Good luck trying to sort through that in quick fashion.

 

[TI82]

That's the thing, how would the list refer to the Squid Beakons? Numbering them won't work because you'd run into the problem of having to look up a number in order to find the beakon you want to jump to, instead of just immediately selecting the beakon itself. And I hope you realize how slow cycling through the beakons (+ other jump points) would be in comparison to how the touchscreen works.

Maybe I'm the only one but looking at the people on the map already takes a while for me since the lines leading from the profile pics seem to blend together since the screen is so low res. So having a higher res version on main screen would actually be faster to me.

 

[jobrro]

Dropping the Wii U gamepad would allow them to design a much stronger system and still retain profits...

I remember reading that Nintendo opted to make the Wii U weaker rather than increasing the size of the console as they were dead set on giving it a low profile.