Support NeoGAF

[pinkurocket]

Yes it does. Their pinpoint location would only be revealed after the echolater is activated. You still wouldn't know the exact location of your enemies. Every defender of this is concept is going to be really upset when Nintendo releases a console with no screen or a screen too small to even have this be useable. This is not going to be a one-off series exclusive to the Wii U, it's going to have to adapt to new hardware schemes and it's entirely possible to make it work without the gamepad.

Even if you don't see them on the map, seeing where the ink is being sprayed in real-time is just as game-changing.
Yes, you could make it work without the Gamepad, but that would need to be another game. You can't fix the current version of Splatoon to not use a gamepad, it's designed around it. That's my point.

 

[Red Devil]

So far the game I liked the Wii U GamePad most, where I found it really really helpful was Wind Waker HD, particularly when sailing.

Hyrule Warriors spinner weapon behind link is the worst one so far

Meh, the spinner is not really neccesary for anything, it's yet another lightning elemental weapon for Link.

 

[greg400]

Even if you don't see them on the map, seeing where the ink is being sprayed in real-time is just as game-changing.
Yes, you could make it work without the Gamepad, but that would need to be another game. You can't fix the current version of Splatoon to not use a gamepad, it's designed around it. That's my point.

Seeing where the ink is being placed in real-time is something you can do already if you hold the GamePad up in a cumbersome as fuck way. That's why a mini-map would be better. Get over it and get ready to enjoy the sequel to Splatoon that doesn't use the GamePad.

 

[clevbrowns94]

I'm not convinced that there was anything they could have done to significantly change sales once the system was released and to keep it profitable. I don't think a name change after a release helps, and it may only confuse more, and there would be a lot of issues with dropping the gamepad. They did do a pricecut, obviously not a huge one, and they released some amazing games like Smash, 3D World, Splatoon, and Mario Kart, but they all had minimal effect on sales. Maybe if PS4 and Xbone failed in some alternative universe, they could have staged a comeback, but that didn't happen and their full year without competition didn't matter because everyone waited for those two systems anyway. The Wii U has a great library now, but it's way too late, and it's not a good investment for people waiting for the NX.

 

[CoconutTank]

The Amiibo support is nice.

Couldn't Splatoon be patched with pro controller support?

A game having 1 or 2 unique gamepad features doesn't make the gamepad suddenly a core game design feature that can't be removed. Splatoon could absolutely work without the gamepad and when Splatoon 2 comes out on NX or whatever, it probably will work with a normal controller anyways.

You can have 4 allies, 12 beakons (max 3 per player) and 1 spawn point that you can super jump to.

Which position do you super jump to? How will you do this with a pro controller?

Inkstrikes: You can barely move when they are activated, activate, bring up a bigger version of the map in the middle of the screen, select where you want it
Squid Beacons: Press select, bring up bigger version of map, select with a list on the right hand side
Or just number players on the minimap with the beacons, then look at a small list
Super Jumps: See Above

Battle dojo could've been split screen.

An onscreen map would not be messy, it would be easy for them to display ink trails on a minimap.

That's more presses than needed. What if the Beakon I want to jump to requires a bunch of control pad presses to get to? I have a quick super jump set that relies on me to jump quickly in order to escape enemies and to get back into the action, it would be ruined by your control scheme.

 

[greg400]

You can have 4 allies, 12 beakons (max 3 per player) and 1 spawn point that you can super jump to.

Which position do you super jump to? How will you do this with a pro controller?


That's more presses than needed. What if the Beakon I want to jump to requires a bunch of control pad presses to get to? I have a quick super jump set that relies on me to jump quickly in order to escape enemies and to get back into the action, it would be ruined by your control scheme.

Have a mini-map, Hold L, have a cursor appear over mini-map instantly, select with A
Press B, fast select a teammate or spawn pawn to jump to with A

 

[Boomshaw]

No. The Wii U was doomed ever since its name, spec and release window was announced.

 

[CoconutTank]

Have a mini-map, Hold L, have a cursor appear over mini-map instantly, select with A
Press B, fast select a teammate to jump to with A or the spawn point

I hope you're proposing a control scheme using the Wii Mote, because having to scroll via dpad through the available choices I want for beakons/players/spawn point is going to suck. Furthermore I like being able to move or shoot while I'm taking a quick peek down at the mini-map without having to toggle modes.

The mini-map is not in a good place in your example screen, it's obscuring visibility of the bottom right corner. Additionally the mini-map being a trade off of your attention helps ambushes and low range weapons.

 

[greg400]

This better be a control scheme using the Wii Mote because having to scroll via dpad through the available choices I want for beakons/players/spawn point is going to suck. Furthermore I like being able to move or shoot while I'm taking a quick peek down at the mini-map without having to toggle modes.

The mini-map is not in a good place in your example screen, it's obscuring visibility of the bottom right corner. Additionally the mini-map being a trade off of your attention helps ambushes and low range weapons.

Lol what are you talking about, the only thing you would have to scroll through would be 4 options, the 3 players and the spawn point. The beacons (or players if you want to use this method) would be selected by pressing L and getting the cursor.

If you want to peek at the map feel free to peek at the mini map. Nothing is stopping you and you won't have to divert your attention. You can peek at the mini map and still move in my setup.

That was a quick and dirty throw together, it could be made transparent or smaller.

 

[KingJ2002]

Nintendo should have sold the gamepad separately while releasing the Wii U with a classic controller, wiimote & WiiSports 3 bundled in... that would have allowed them to continue to ride the wave that the Wii created... but it wouldn't have allowed the system to last long.

The 360/PS3 era lasted for 10 years and developers (first to third) were ready to move on for a very long time, Nintendo could have made their system more port friendly by improving the CPU and adding better development tools... but that wouldn't guarantee many titles would come after 2015... which is why Nintendo's Wii U failure could be looked at as the best thing to happen to them... made them realize they have to compete on all fronts.

I have no idea what the NX will be until the unveiling... but it's up to nintendo to bring out a system that can stand with this generation.

 

[CoconutTank]

Lol what are you talking about, the only thing you would have to scroll through would be 4 options, the 3 players and the spawn point. The beacons (or players if you want to use this method) would be selected by pressing L and getting the cursor.

If you want to peek at the map feel free to peek at the mini map. Nothing is stopping you and you won't have to divert your attention. You can peek at the mini map and still move in my setup.

That was a quick and dirty throw together, it could be made transparent or smaller.

So in your original proposal, super jumping gets divided over two systems? That sounds like terrible UI design. Will I be able to do any actions or stay in squid form while the map overlay is covering the screen and I select a super jump target?

My point is that the mini-map requiring one to divert attention is a GOOD thing for Splatoon. It is good because it makes you trade off having immediate visibility of your current surroundings with the current map state, and that helps with ambushes.

Having the mini-map be smaller or more transparent in your example would just make it more likely for one to misclick.

 

[10k]

No. But it shouldn't have been a requirement for some games.

I'd rather they took the cost of the gamepad and used it for more RAM and a new x86 CPU.

 

[The Shadow]

Price isn't the main reason the console hasn't sold well.

The GameCube costed only $99 for a long time, and it still got trounced by the much pricier and weaker PS2.

I don't think removing the GamePad would have helped Nintendo much at all.

Same with me. As someone who isn't interested in the WiiU one bit, I can tell you the price isn't what deters me.

 

[Aroll]

Let's face it. The WiiU desperately could have used a price drop two years ago.

The gamepad is a gigantic factor to the cost of the WiiU. It also happens to be an uncomfortable, heavy controller. Lots of people also prefer to use the pro controller, myself included.

Anyways, let's say the console dropped to as low as $199.99 if Nintendo dropped the gamepad, would you have bought one? Would there have been more hope or success for this console back in 2013 if Nintendo just dropped the gamepad?

I'm not sure this question is pertinent to this community. In fact, a bunch of my friends got the Wii U because of this community. Why? NeoGAF talked heavily about this very thing two years ago:

https://store.nintendo.com/ng3/browse/productDetailColorSizePicker.jsp?productId=prod150200

Basically, all of us here are typically aware (or, we should be), that for at least 2 years, you've been able to get a Wii U WITH a GamePad for $200 off the online store. Now, the general public isn't aware, and Nintendo doesn't really advertise it. They would rather you buy it at retail.

However, removing the gamepad and dropping the console to $100 even won't fix the problem. In other words - Price is not the problem with the Wii U. I don't really think price has ever been the problem. Messaging has. Naming conventions have. Target audience confusion. GamePad = accessory confusion. No support but Nintendo (so, long droughts with Major games not putting Wii U in their trailers). Too weak of hardware for 3rd party games, not enough innovation for blue ocean.

The odd part is, the Wii U to me is practically a new golden age for Nintendo content. I say that without Zelda U even being here. I like Smash 4 more than any other Smash. I like Mario Kart 8 more than any other Mario Kart. I like DKTF more than any other DKC game. I like Super Mario 3D World more than any other 2D platformering Mario, and almost up there with Galaxy and 64. Bayonetta 2 is the best action game I have played in a decade or more. X looks like the traditional JRPG most people clamor for (that are into those games). NintendoLand is probably the most pure fun I've had with friends... maybe ever. So underrated that game is. Pikmin 3 is tied for me as the best in the series. Splatoon, a multiplayer new IP, that is fucking awesome. Super Mario Maker (have a media copy) is brilliant.

I'm just happy as can be with almost everything exclusive that hit the console. Even with Zombi now on other consoles - I can't help but feel it was a totally amazing launch title and I am glad others now get to enjoy it.

Still, even with the fun I have had (it's like the Dreamcast honestly, with a much longer life cycle) I recognize Nintendo absolutely fumbled this console every step of the way, making it unappealing. Even if they removed the GamePad years ago - it would have probably been too little, too late. It's not comparable to say, removing the Kinect from the Xbox One. Your main input was a standard controller and that was there from day one.

The naming convention was bad. If they wanted to continue that Wii brand, they needed to continue what the Wii did - chiefly, take your motion controls to the next level. Not go back to standard with a touch screen - save that for a totally new pillar (a non-wii console). They claimed they wanted gamers, but then gave gamers nothing they wanted (last gen comparisons in graphical ability, dated touch screen tech, etc). As I said, maybe if this launched in 2010, it could have worked - at least for a nice 3 or 4 year run. Could have legit got cross platform games and been priced competitively with 360/PS3.

TL;DR - price was never the issue.

 

[Terrell]

Sure about that? Unless you mean connecting your NX hand held to your NX console.

Yes, I sure am.

There's a reason Wii U got DS Virtual Console. A GamePad on NX continues with this logic that they started with Wii U: compatible with EVERY piece of Nintendo software they have ever created, allowing VC cross-compatibility (which will be a big thing for them), along with current backwards compatibility, regardless of how they jigger it into the mix. And allows them to make cross-compatible NX games without dumping the 2-screen handheld design.
And the GamePad is much cheaper to make now than it was at launch by a country mile, with design options that could make it even less so.

Nintendo isn't known for dropping control options. Even with the Wii, GameCube controller ports were there.

 

[Sulik2]

No removing the pad isn't the issue, the insane confusion regarding the console was. They should have pulled it off shelves for three months, rebranded it and rereleased it along with a $50 price drop and major marketing campaign.

 

[greg400]

So in your original proposal, super jumping gets divided over two systems? That sounds like terrible UI design. Will I be able to do any actions or stay in squid form while the map overlay is covering the screen and I select a super jump target?

My point is that the mini-map requiring one to divert attention is a GOOD thing for Splatoon. It is good because it makes you trade off having immediate visibility of your current surroundings with the current map state, and that helps with ambushes.

Having the mini-map be smaller or more transparent in your example would just make it more likely for one to misclick.

My original proposal that was 4 pages back was one concept, my latest proposal is the one I just stated. No it isn't terrible UI design, it's called adapting a concept to work perfectly fine without a touchscreen. If you want to jump to a beacon or select a player, that can all be done by holding L. If you want to fast select a player or spawn point, press B.

And no that wasn't your point, you stated this: "Furthermore I like being able to move or shoot while I'm taking a quick peek down at the mini-map without having to toggle modes."

Now you're strawmanning and claiming you meant that not being able to see the map is good. I'll respond to your new claim by saying something I've already stated in this thread:
"Seeing where the ink is being placed in real-time is something you can do already if you hold the GamePad up in a cumbersome as fuck way. That's why a mini-map would be better."

And no, it really wouldn't unless you're legally colorblind which there should be an option to help with that.

 

[Celine]

Price isn't the main reason the console hasn't sold well.

The GameCube costed only $99 for a long time, and it still got trounced by the much pricier and weaker PS2.

I don't think removing the GamePad would have helped Nintendo much at all.

Yes, it's the whole system that was rejected by the market.
It's not strictly a price issue.

That said WiiU host some very notable games.

 

[Malio]

I could have done without it, but it wasn't a deal breaker. The stupid/confusing name, piss poor marketing and shitty support were the Wii U killers...not the gamepad.

 

[Snatch1414]

I don't think they should have dropped it, just explained and implemented it better. It's kind of obvious they were going for "Hey look it's a game system for the tablet generation!" but the marketing never quite came off that way to me. It always seemed like the thing just happened to have a big ass controller with a screen on it, which isn't the same notion. Also you need to bring it with your games utilizing it often and well. They didn't drill it into people's heads what they were going for enough I think.

Also I'll probably get some hate for this but it should've been for sale as a second controller even if the 2P wouldn't have the same functionality. Right or wrong, it's too confusing for people to go to buy a system and be like "Wait, I need a second controller too. They don't sell these separate? I have to buy this normal looking one? So two people use two different controllers?".

I've been playing games for almost 30 years and even I think that is baffling.

 

[CoconutTank]

My original proposal that was 4 pages back was one concept, my latest proposal is the one I just stated. No it isn't terrible UI design, it's called adapting a concept to work perfectly fine without a touchscreen. If you want to jump to a beacon or select a player, that can all be done by holding L. If you want to fast select a player or spawn point, press B.

And no that wasn't your point, you stated this: "Furthermore I like being able to move or shoot while I'm taking a quick peek down at the mini-map without having to toggle modes."

Now you're strawmanning and claiming you meant that not being able to see the map is good. I'll respond to your new claim by saying something I've already stated in this thread:
"Seeing where the ink is being placed in real-time is something you can do already if you hold the GamePad up in a cumbersome as fuck way. That's why a mini-map would be better."

And no, it really wouldn't unless you're legally colorblind which there should be an option to help with that.

"Work perfectly fine" is debatable. Again, can I do anything else while I'm holding L or B with an overlay on the screen, or are you changing how that works as well? Do you think dividing the super jump into two differently working systems is a fluid idea?

I don't know what you're talking about with strawmanning. I already mentioned "that point" in a previous post:

I hope you're proposing a control scheme using the Wii Mote, because having to scroll via dpad through the available choices I want for beakons/players/spawn point is going to suck. Furthermore I like being able to move or shoot while I'm taking a quick peek down at the mini-map without having to toggle modes.

The mini-map is not in a good place in your example screen, it's obscuring visibility of the bottom right corner. Additionally the mini-map being a trade off of your attention helps ambushes and low range weapons.

So I guess "my points" are both:
1) It's good that I can take a quick peek at the map state by glancing down without having to toggle modes.
2) It's good for the game that players don't have easily accessible knowledge of the map state at all times.

And if you want to hold the gamepad up in a cumbersome as fuck way while sabotaging your use of the gyro, be my guest.

 

[marc^o^]

On the one hand, it's a pity Wii U's library is as little known. On the other hand, I'm glad I live in France well it's rather succesful. My friends all play Splatoon as we speak, and I switch between this game and Fifa off TV. Nintendo stayed true to their vision, and as an owner of the system and a fan of the GamePad, I respect that choice heavily.

 

[greg400]

"Work perfectly fine" is debatable. Again, can I do anything else while I'm holding L or B with an overlay on the screen, or are you changing how that works as well? Do you think dividing the super jump into two differently working systems is a fluid idea?

I don't know what you're talking about with strawmanning. I already mentioned "that point" in a previous post:

This is where the risk of "diverting your attention of the game" that you love so much is still in tact. If you look down at the GamePad, you have to make sure that you are in a safe spot. If you want to super jump by holding L, you have to make sure you're in a safe spot (nothing would be lost in translation, only you would be more aware of what's happening at all times). You could still fast escape by pressing B, just like you could fast escape by selecting users on the right of the GamePad, only you will be guaranteed escape because it will default to a player that is alive or the spawn point.

So I guess "my points" are both:
1) It's good that I can take a quick peek at the map state by glancing down without having to toggle modes.
2) It's good for the game that players don't have easily accessible knowledge of the map state at all times.

And if you want to hold the gamepad up in a cumbersome as fuck way while sabotaging your use of the gyro, be my guest.

1) Already covered that above and taking a "quick peek" does not require changing modes.
2) You have yet to make a decent case for this considering it can be done already with the GamePad, albeit in an annoying fashion.

3) Max sensitivity and you barely even have to move the damn thing for gyro aiming.

 

[nampad]

It would still have been an underpowered console which lacked games and offered nothing over a 360 or PS3 except some Nintendo games.

 

[pinkurocket]

Seeing where the ink is being placed in real-time is something you can do already if you hold the GamePad up in a cumbersome as fuck way. That's why a mini-map would be better. Get over it and get ready to enjoy the sequel to Splatoon that doesn't use the GamePad.

That's the thing though. I mentioned specifically you can only have a minimap on the TV in a sequel. The current game is designed around the minimap on the Gamepad. You can perhaps hold the Gamepad in a 'cumbersome way' to see the minimap at the same time as you're playing, but with the gyro controls that's almost impossible (even with max sensitivity, it's just not comfortable). Turning off gyro controls is not a preferable control scheme for most.

Game design, man, it's a thing. The current way Splatoon is designed can not be done without a gamepad. A potential sequel designed for a different controller might solve that.

 

[greg400]

That's the thing though. I mentioned specifically you can only have a minimap on the TV in a sequel. The current game is designed around the minimap on the Gamepad. You can not hold the pad in a cumbersome way to see the minimap at the same time as you're playing, unless perhaps you turn off gyro controls but that's not a preferable control scheme for most.

Game design, man, it's a thing. The current way Splatoon is designed can not be done without a gamepad. A potential sequel designed for a different controller might solve that.

Yeah man game design man, it's a thing. A thing that can be easily adjusted as I've proven repeatedly in this thread after your post.

And yes you can hold the pad in a cumbersome way to see the map, put the gyro on max sensitivity and hold it up, you barely have to move it. The current way Splatoon is designed could be adjusted to work fine, updates, how do they work.

 

[CoconutTank]

This is where the risk of "diverting your attention of the game" that you love so much is still in tact. If you look down at the GamePad, you have to make sure that you are in a safe spot. If you want to super jump by holding L, you have to make sure you're in a safe spot (nothing would be lost in translation, only you would be more aware of what's happening at all times). You could still fast escape by pressing B, just like you could fast escape by selecting users on the right of the GamePad, only you will be guaranteed escape because it will default to a player that is alive or the spawn point.

Naw I can prep and do mid fight super jumps as is without having to hold another button to do so. It's still a risk, but I can do it while moving or swimming; I don't need to be in a safe place in order to do so.

1) Already covered that above
2) You have yet to make a decent case for this considering it can be done already with the GamePad, albeit in an annoying fashion.

Well I didn't realize anyone would be that dedicated towards putting the two screens so close to each other, so congrats? I still like the fact that the normal view of the game is fairly clean and I also don't mind where the mini map is and the tradeoffs one makes to use it.

3) Max sensitivity and you barely even have to move the damn thing for gyro aiming.

Are you really playing that way? If so I wanna see you stream that :3

Yeah man game design man, it's a thing. A thing that can be easily adjusted as I've proven repeatedly in this thread after your post.

And yes you can hold the pad in a cumbersome way to see the map, put the gyro on max sensitivity and hold it up, you barely have to move it. The current way Splatoon is designed could be adjusted to work fine, updates, how do they work.

Armchair game design, how does it work man?

 

[Partition]

Well it would have made the console sell more, but the nintendofans can keep pretending otherwise I guess.

Same with me. As someone who isn't interested in the WiiU one bit, I can tell you the price isn't what deters me.

Nintendo shouldn't be aiming at gamers with the Wii U though. That ship has long sailed with the Wii brand and lack of 3rd parties. Their only hope was the casual market, and the only way they could have competed to get that segment of the market back was with price. And clever advertising.

 

[greg400]

Naw I can prep and do mid fight super jumps as is without having to hold another button to do so. It's still a risk, but I can do it while moving or swimming; I don't need to be in a safe place in order to do so.

Pressing B then A takes such little time and doesn't require you to take your hands off the face button or right analog stick. That's the point of it.

L - Look around map and select
B - Back-out/retreat fast

Well I didn't realize anyone would be that dedicated towards putting the two screens so close to each other, so congrats? I still like the fact that the normal view of the game is fairly clean and I also don't mind where the mini map is and the tradeoffs one makes to use it.

There are no trade-offs and it's arguably better which doesn't make a very strong case for the GamePad needing to exist.

Are you really playing that way? If so I wanna see you stream that :3

Sit in a chair with armrests, put your feet on chair, put knees on armrests, rest elbows on inner legs, hold GamePad up, enjoy.

Armchair game design, how does it work man?

You tell me

 

[pinkurocket]

Yeah man game design man, it's a thing. A thing that can be easily adjusted as I've proven repeatedly in this thread after your post.

And yes you can hold the pad in a cumbersome way to see the map, put the gyro on max sensitivity and hold it up, you barely have to move it. The current way Splatoon is designed could be adjusted to work fine, updates, how do they work.

But no one wants to play in a cumbersome way. No one.
Would you?

And yes, the current way Splatoon is designed can be updated, but it would be a big change that is unnecessary. Imagine if they released an update allowing you to play without Gamepad, the game balance would change completely. Even if there are small changes like your 'fixes' to put the Gamepad features on screen, game strategies would change a lot. And you're still stuck with the Gamepad since no other Nintendo controller has a 9-axis gyro. The Pro controller with dual analog? That's just not gonna cut it for most.

 

[CoconutTank]

Pressing B then A takes such little time and doesn't require you to take your hands off the face button or right analog stick. That's the point of it.

L - Look around map and select
B - Back-out/retreat fast

There are no trade-offs and it's arguably better which doesn't make a very strong case for the GamePad needing to exist.

Sit in a chair with armrests, put your feet on chair, put knees on armrests, rest elbows on inner legs, hold GamePad up, enjoy.

You tell me

I'm not the one that's attempting to play Splatoon in a way which is fairly uncomfortable and arguably doesn't have much benefit, but given how insistent you are on holding up the gamepad that way, I want to see you put it in action

Also I'm not the one making pie-in-the-sky UIs, so it sounds like I'd have to defer to you when it comes to armchair game design. "You tell me" indeed.

 

[greg400]

But no one wants to play in a cumbersome way. No one.
Would you?

And yes, the current way Splatoon is designed can be updated, but it would be a big change that is unnecessary. Imagine if they released an update allowing you to play without Gamepad, the game balance would change completely. Even if there are small changes like your 'fixes' to put the Gamepad features on screen, game strategies would change a lot. And you're still stuck with the Gamepad since no other Nintendo controller has a 9-axis gyro. The Pro controller with dual analog? That's just not gonna cut it for most.

Yes, I do and I'm sure others figure out a way as well because seeing the map at all times is an advantage over other players.

No, it really wouldn't change everything. You can say it'll change strategies yet I've already provided reasons why it wouldn't and you have yet to counter them. Nothing would stop the GamePad map from existing, that can still be in the game just like there is a live action map on FlounderHeights. You could still use gyro and there's is an option to enable gyro with a Wii Remote on the Pro Controller in local multiplayer:
https://youtu.be/vBlNDDZRf-4

I'm not the one that's attempting to play Splatoon in a way which is fairly uncomfortable and arguably doesn't have much benefit, but given how insistent you are on holding up the gamepad that way, I want to see you put it in action

Also I'm not the one making pie-in-the-sky UIs, so it sounds like I'd have to defer to you when it comes to armchair game design. "You tell me" indeed.

Cumbersome, not uncomfortable, it's basically sitting indian style with elevated knees, that's it and I'm not posting an image of myself on here no matter how badly you want me to for some creepy reason. Funny how you go from saying it would break the way the game is played to now saying it's not providing that much of an advantage.

Nah you're the one trying to debate over why certain game mechanics are necessary, therefore you are also playing armchair game design.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Inventory and maps not being displayed on the TV are pretty poor reasons for keeping the gamepad. Maps are better on screen so you don't have to look away to see it. As for inventory that's hardly a game breaker either.

There has been no unmissable uses of the gamepad on the console. Should have dropped it like Kinect

 

[RandomTiger]

Inventory and maps not being displayed on the TV are pretty poor reasons for keeping the gamepad. Maps are better on screen so you don't have to look away to see it. As for inventory that's hardly a game breaker either.

Pikmin 3 map use with touch seems pretty important if you get into speed runs. Offscreen play is a big deal for me, if you share your TV its great to be able to jump off and on without any effort.

There has been no unmissable uses of the gamepad on the console. Should have dropped it like Kinect

I think where they are really missing a trick is local multi-player. Mario kart and Splatoon should both have full multiplayer support for another person on the pad. I'm guessing the lack of power in the WiiU is the problem there.

I'm not sure if dropping it and lowering the price would help that much. Either it has games you want to play or it doesn't. I think the casual crowd are gone and are not coming back.

 

[CoconutTank]

Cumbersome, not uncomfortable, it's basically sitting indian style with elevated knees, that's it and I'm not posting an image of myself on here no matter how badly you want me to for some creepy reason. Funny how you go from saying it would break the way the game is played to now saying it's not providing that much of an advantage.

Nah you're the one trying to debate over why certain game mechanics are necessary, therefore you are also playing armchair game design.

You're right, my choice of words was poor. You would definitely be getting map state information more readily if you hold up the gamepad to align with the TV screen with the way you're proposing. But, for me, there wouldn't be much benefit because I would be pretty restricted with how I can move the gamepad for the gyro.

Again, if you were willing to demonstrate, then perhaps I would better understand, because currently no matter how much you insist, your proposal sounds stupid

Well I'm arguing for Splatoon as is, which apparently works. You're proposing weird changes that you think are "perfectly fine", but you haven't been very convincing.

 

[greg400]

You're right, my choice of words was poor. You would definitely be getting map state information more readily if you hold up the gamepad to align with the TV screen with the way you're proposing. But, for me, there wouldn't be much benefit because I would be pretty restricted with how I can move the gamepad for the gyro.

Again, if you were willing to demonstrate, then perhaps I would better understand, because currently no matter how much you insist, your proposal sounds stupid

Well I'm arguing for Splatoon as is, which apparently works. You're proposing weird changes that you think are "perfectly fine", but you haven't been very convincing.

There is no restriction in GamePad movement, put it on max (which you should be doing anyway if you want to actually be competitive) and you hardly have to move it. If you actually play the game you would know this.

Picture that, in a chair, with outer thigh resting on the armrests and your elbows resting on your inner thighs. That's it, I don't see what's so hard to see about the concept or what's stupid about sitting in a way that fucking Yoga instructors do.

Changes for making the game work without the GamePad that Nintendo will HAVE to do for a sequel unless they want to sink their company by putting another pointless screen on a controller.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The question with Splatoon is not "how would you do X without the game pad". The question is, do you really think Nintendo isn't going to release a sequel on a system without a second screen?"

For the record anyone who actually played splatoon would recognize the inherent usefulness of the gamepad even if they would prefer not to use it. Instant access to a full size map and super jump is entirely useful. Does it justify the pad? I dunno, I wouldnt use it if I didnt need to personally. Do I dislike it though? Nope, works great.

 

[Rolf NB]

You can have 4 allies, 12 beakons (max 3 per player) and 1 spawn point that you can super jump to.

Which position do you super jump to? How will you do this with a pro controller?

Killzone 2 has this. Killzone 2 is not even a Wii U game.

 

[RichiRamjag]

You're right, my choice of words was poor. You would definitely be getting map state information more readily if you hold up the gamepad to align with the TV screen with the way you're proposing. But, for me, there wouldn't be much benefit because I would be pretty restricted with how I can move the gamepad for the gyro.

Again, if you were willing to demonstrate, then perhaps I would better understand, because currently no matter how much you insist, your proposal sounds stupid

Well I'm arguing for Splatoon as is, which apparently works. You're proposing weird changes that you think are "perfectly fine", but you haven't been very convincing.

It's a terrible idea, not one person has agreed with the guy that it's a good idea and it's a waste of time discussing it with the guy. It's cumbersome, analog sticks aren't near precise enough for it to be useful for quick selections and while it is certainly possible it doesn't mean it should be done. At the end of the day, ninty isn't dumping the gamepad, splatoon is going to continue with its current control setup and we're all whistling dixie.

 

[greg400]

It's a terrible idea, not one person has agreed with the guy that it's a good idea and it's a waste of time discussing it with the guy. It's cumbersome, analog sticks aren't near precise enough for it to be useful for quick selections and while it is certainly possible it doesn't mean it should be done. At the end of the day, ninty isn't dumping the gamepad, splatoon is going to continue with its current control setup and we're all whistling dixie.

Are you done bragging about playing a pirated copy of Advance Wars on your iPhone?
Also hilariously the guy above you is agreeing with me by saying it's possible.

I'm trying to discuss game mechanics and how they could work on a sequel or if Nintendo decided to make the GamePad non-essential while you keep hopping in here and shitposting. If Nintendo doesn't drop the GamePad concept for their next console they can kiss making home consoles goodbye. Either you're delusional or Nintendo is delusional if you think they're keeping that for another generation.

 

[Brickhunt]

At that time, I remember that in some thread I had proposed a rebrand/relaunch.

- Change the name from Wii U to Wii 2.
- Drop the GamePad, but still sell it as an separate device.
- In the GamePads place, put a improved Wiimote 2 + Nunchaku. Improved in the sense that it should be essentially a Pro Controlle split in two and each piece with an IR aiming sensor.

In the end, I still think the greatest, horrible, error Nintendo did was dropping the Wiimote and Nunchaku as main controlle scheme. Sure, it was flawed, but it could be improved, since It's greatest actual weakness was it's button placement, which wasn't intuitive for certain genres.

By choosing the GamePad as main controller scheme, Nintendo essentially regressed everything the Wiimote accomplished in the previous generation. Motion sensoring is not as intuitive as it was in the Wiimote and IR aiming was essentially killed. Love or hate it, motion sensoring in the Wiimote was still viable, it just lacked support because Nintendo abandoned the Wii too early.

Even putting a ProController instead of the GamePad would had been a horrible idea, because the Wii U wouldn't have any true differential against the PS4 and XOne.

 

[CoconutTank]

Killzone 2 has this. Killzone 2 is not even a Wii U game.

So describe how KZ2 does it then. Does it work the way the same way as greg400's proposal? How fast is is the way KZ2 does it?

Are you done bragging about playing a pirated copy of Advance Wars on your iPhone?

Good job bringing up irrelevant shit to argue against someone else's relevant arguments.

 

[greg400]

Good job bringing up irrelevant shit to argue against someone else's relevant arguments.

"It's a terrible idea, not one person has agreed with the guy that it's a good idea and it's a waste of time discussing it with the guy"

>tells people it's a waste of time to talk to me in a thread about the gamepad
>posts about pirating gba games on his iphone in a thread about the gamepad

It is relevant, but good job ignoring the rest of that post that was actually important.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Inventory and maps not being displayed on the TV are pretty poor reasons for keeping the gamepad. Maps are better on screen so you don't have to look away to see it. As for inventory that's hardly a game breaker either.

There has been no unmissable uses of the gamepad on the console. Should have dropped it like Kinect

As far as maps are concerned depends on what the game is. For something like Mario Kart I prefer to map on the screen as opposed to off. For like Splatoon or Pikmin I vastly prefer it off the main screen. Not saying I disagree with you. This holiday would have been a great time to unbundle the pad. I just think that maps and inventory are largely dependent on game design. Some games benefit way more from shit bigger and off the main screen.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It is relevant, but good job ignoring the rest of that post that was actually important.

The pirating gba games had zero releavnce to the discussion at hand. I didnt even read the link because its honestly a shitty red herring that is very transparent in what it is trying to do. I say this as someone entirely neutral.

 

[sörine]

It would've been a good move to decouple the gamepad from the OS and some major titles, and then drop price/drive userbase if they'd wanted to stick with the platform. Even optionally, say a $199 core bundle (Pro controller) versus the $299 family bundle (Gamepad and games).

Unfortunately I think Wii U's launch window sales were so far below expectations, and it's core problems so diverse and numerous, that even at that point Nintendo already knew it wasn't their future. So did 3rd parties as this is evidently when everything got canceled and delayed. So in retrospect it sort of makes sense that Nintendo would hold price, hurry future plans and not PS3 themselves into a hole they'd never really recover from.

 

[greg400]

The pirating gba games had zero releavnce to the discussion at hand. I didnt even read the link because its honestly a shitty red herring that is very transparent in what it is trying to do. I say this as someone entirely neutral.

Sure it is relevant, if someone is going to claim it's a "waste of time discussing it with the guy", when they've contributed something to the thread along the lines of pirating fucking gba games then the validity of who to discuss things with comes into play. Besides the fact that once again that was only a response to the beginning of his shitpost that I just quoted. The rest was a response to the rest of his post, I did not ignore the rest of what he stated like some people are doing here to my posts.

 

[Nerrel]

No.

NFC.

Amiibo.

This is the only solid reason not to have abandoned the pad I can think of. Amiibo are really bailing Nintendo out right now.

Otherwise, I keep thinking of how visciously Microsoft kept changing their system and policies in order to compete and how surprisingly far they've come as a result. Two years ago people were planning to boycott the system entirely (as if it was needed- it would have tanked regardless), now it's a surprisingly big success.

If Nintendo had dropped the pad while the system was still young they could have gotten many more sales when growing their install base was crucial to third party support. Instead, they did nothing, let their install base languish, and third parties just fucked right off. The system is dead at this point aside from a few last first party projects, then Nintendo themselves is moving to NX. 2016 is a lot like the Wii's situation in 2011, where we really just had Zelda to look to and that was it.


I don't really see the point in keeping the gamepad on if it inflates the price and disinterests customers. Everyone's argument used to be that it was needed to differentiate the system and give Nintendo a unique edge, but it royally fails at doing that. 80% of what they'd lose by ditching it is dedicated map screens. Who gives a shit? If a large portion of the people who have the gamepad now regularly choose the Pro controller instead (they do), why force new customers to buy one at all?

It doesn't matter at all now. Nothing they do will change the system's fate around, though they might be able to squeeze out whatever remaining sales there are with a cheaper Pro controller bundle.

 

[Jigorath]

It would've been a good move to decouple the gamepad from the OS and some major titles, and then drop price/drive userbase if they'd wanted to stick with the platform. Even optionally, say a $199 core bundle (Pro controller) versus the $299 family bundle (Gamepad and games).

Unfortunately I think Wii U's launch window sales were so far below expectations, and it's core problems so diverse and numerous, that even at that point Nintendo already knew it wasn't their future. So did 3rd parties as this is evidently when everything got canceled and delayed. So in retrospect it sort of makes sense that Nintendo would hold price, hurry future plans and not PS3 themselves into a hole they'd never really recover from.

Eh what now?

*looks at PS4*

Sony recovered from the PS3 pretty well.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Sure it is relevant, if someone is going to claim it's a "waste of time discussing it with the guy", when they've contributed something to the thread along the lines of pirating fucking gba games then the validity of who to discuss things with comes into play. Besides the fact that once again that was only a response to the beginning of his shitpost that I just quoted. The rest was a response to the rest of his post, I did not ignore the rest of what he stated like some people are doing here to my posts.

What does pirating gba games have to do with Splatoon? That's the only thing that would make you comment relevant to that topic and as far as I can tell the 2 have zero relation. Just being plain with you man.