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Sega Saturn Appreciation and Emulation Thread

Guys, is there a point in having KoF95 when KoF96 and 97 exist? and KoF96?



There are so many of them we can't really make a list on a forum, it would be extremely incomplete.

Err, I just needed a handful--some stuff to be on the lookout for.

To answer your question, I actually think 96 is better than both 95 *and* 97!

edit: Thanks, Teknoman!
 

StevieWhite

Member
Guys, is there a point in having KoF95 when KoF96 and 97 exist? and KoF96?



There are so many of them we can't really make a list on a forum, it would be extremely incomplete.

I have all three, but I tend to avoid 95, because I don't like to fiddle with that cartridge slot anymore than I have to.
 
Speaking of, why is Radiant Silvergun still so expensive? Anything different in the Saturn version than the XBLA game?
The XBLA version doesn't have an Options+ menu, and for every hour you play, you unlock an extra life instead of an extra continue - you max out at 99 lives in the XBLA version compared to Free Play in the Saturn version.

Of course, the XBLA version also has Ikaruga scoring mode, where you can switch the color your chain is using after at any successful three in a row without invalidating it, which is honestly a better way of handling chains than the Saturn original's "oh, you hit a yellow after doing reds for so long? Even though you'd just done three reds in a row and wanted a change? Too bad, start your chain over".
 

Teknoman

Member
i haven't but im sold
i can't believe i like the story in a shmup but metal black's is so bleak and sad

It is. It really is.

Also the OST and Arranged OST are beautiful

Yeah I just started really getting into it this week. The intro to stage 1 is so hype and then...boom you see what happened to Earth and hear the actual stage 1 music. It's got a hopeful sound to it...just vaguely though.

Kinda surprised they ran with the whole Nibiru / Nemesis thing. Which i'm more surprised that you didn't see more games using that before 2012 (even indies for that matter).

Biohazard Battle (Genesis) has a pretty bleak story to it too.


Yeah its sorta got a similar reclamation premise too. Khaz is right about making a list. I'm still finding out about games to this day (someone posted Black Tusk or whatever awhile ago).
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
No one should bother with Saturn era Daytona now that the XBLA version exists and Model 2 emulation is a thing.

This is coming from someone who bought a Saturn for Daytona and sunk probably hundreds of hours into it without regret.

Do note that Teknoman said "import" version, though. The JP version purportedly has better handling than the US version.
 

Timu

Member
No one should bother with Saturn era Daytona now that the XBLA version exists and Model 2 emulation is a thing.

This is coming from someone who bought a Saturn for Daytona and sunk probably hundreds of hours into it without regret.

Do note that Teknoman said "import" version, though. The JP version purportedly has better handling than the US version.
I'll keep that in mind.

Maaan I ordered PD2 from Japan and it's 3 weeks late. Probably not showing up at this point I guess...
And this is why I only do expedited shipping for importing Japanese games.
 

Coda

Member
Maaan I ordered PD2 from Japan and it's 3 weeks late. Probably not showing up at this point I guess...

Yeah, never use cheap shipping when getting shipping from Japan or otherwise. The good news is, sometimes packages get lost but most of the time with cheap shipping it will just randomly show up on your doorstep. I'd wait it out another couple weeks.
 

Teknoman

Member
Maaan I ordered PD2 from Japan and it's 3 weeks late. Probably not showing up at this point I guess...

It could still show up. Same happened to me with Metal Black and Soukyugurentai awhile back. Eventually they popped up (the seller wrote the customs information in pencil, so I supposed that caused some hold up in transit).

No one should bother with Saturn era Daytona now that the XBLA version exists and Model 2 emulation is a thing.

This is coming from someone who bought a Saturn for Daytona and sunk probably hundreds of hours into it without regret.

Do note that Teknoman said "import" version, though. The JP version purportedly has better handling than the US version.

That and the CC edition has a few extra tracks, some remixed themes to go along with the originals, and is a solid 30 fps (heh) with a lot less pop in than the original. But unless you've got a thing for old school 3D (I sort of do) it probably is best to just play the XBLA version if you just want to play the game.
 

VARIA

Member
Ignore if old, but apparently if you own an Action Replay 4 in 1 cart you can flash it to be a CDR back-up loader.

The process is pretty easy (minor disassembly required):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DujYFV1t5zY

All necessary files are provided in the YouTube video description.

Only downside is that your Action replay will LOSE all backup save functions.

EDIT: This guy shows a way to do it WITHOUT opening up your Saturn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKl0U2D0Nto
 
I could never get the initial disc swap to work despite taping down the lid sensor. Model 2 Saturn FTL.

If you have an old-school PAR 4-in-1 is there any way to apply Pseudo Saturn via the parallel port on the top?
 
Do note that Teknoman said "import" version, though. The JP version purportedly has better handling than the US version.
Not just that; I've gathered that it also has alternate times-of-day (so if you always wanted to race Dinosaur Canyon at sunset, have I got news for you!) and lets you use the arcade soundtrack if you want to (like, an even more accurate-to-the-arcade version than the original Saturn release's take was) - neither of which are in the Western releases.

Also apparently the second PC version of Daytona, Daytona USA Deluxe, has a sixth track that wasn't reprised in the Dreamcast game, so there's that as well? No idea if it's based on the Western Championship Circuit Edition or the Japanese Circuit Edition...
 
I actually played some Saturn recently, and zipped through both games on the Twinbee Deluxe Pack disc. So, my thoughts:

Detana! Twinbee Yahho Deluxe Pack - I beat both games on this disc, Detana!! Twinbee and Twinbee Yahho!. They are ports of Konami's two Twinbee arcade games, the first from '91 and the second from '95. I have at least one version of most of the Twinbee shmups (I have the three NES/FC games (Twinbee, Stinger, and Twinbee 3), the SNES game (Pop'n Twinbee), and this collection), and both of these games are pretty fun stuff. These two games and the SNES game all play and look VERY similarly, so Detana was obviously successful considering that it got two sequels done in the same style. The NES games have some side-scrolling levels, but the three later titles are entirely vertical-scrolling. The graphics are very bright and colorful and look great, though the second game has better graphics than the first one, as you would expect. There is a bit of sensory overload at times though, as enemies come from above and below and you have to dodge them and their fire, remember to target and bomb enemies on the ground because this series has Xevious-style bombing in it, and try to juggle those bells at the same time. It can be tricky, and it's easy to die and/or miss a bell -- and when you do you won't score as much. Yahho has a meter on the side for consecutive bells gotten for instance, so if you miss one it empties and you won't score as much.

Returning to the bomb system though, I've never liked games with this Xevious-like fire-and-bomb system, either in Xevious, Dragon Spirit, Twinbee, Soukyugurentai, or Galactic Attack/RayForce. Bomb/missile-target systems work in 3d games like Star Fox 64 and After Burner, but in top-down games I don't like how restrictive the targeting systems in most of these games are. Of the games I mentioned above though this series is one of the most playable -- there is more forgiveness in how accurate you need to be, and you can get stuff like homing attacks too, in these two games anyway. So yeah, I don't like this (if you must have separate attacks for air and ground, do it like Raptor and just have different weapons which fire ahead, instead of using these annoying bomb-target cursors!), but I don't find the system as annoying here as in, say, Dragon Spirit.

The other main issue with these games is length, if you don't restrict yourself artificially. These two games are both somewhat short and give you infinite continues right from where you died, so if you just keep hitting continue you'll beat them quickly, as I did. I did die quite a few times, particularly in Detana (which I think is a bit harder than Yahho, probably -- the second to last boss killed me quite a few times), but these games are a whole lot easier than Konami's main shmup series, Gradius, that's for sure. Both of these games have Gradius-like easy final bosses, and there is some amusing comedy, but I do wish Yahho had a better last boss, even if that ending bit was pretty amusing. Ah well, it's a fun game anyway, with mostly good gameplay and some silly comedy. Both of these games have two player co-op too, as do the NES games as well, which is nice. Overall I like Gradius a lot more than Twinbee, but these games are fun things to play once in a while. I'll definitely play them again and try to get better -- I may have beaten the games, but with the number of game overs I got, I didn't get anywhere near the high score table, and that does matter in this kind of game.

Is there a good list of recommended Saturn imports out there? I'm in Tokyo for the next few months, and I'd like to buy a system with a few games. I *loved* the Saturn when it came out, and I've always wanted to check out what's available from Japan.
For something not a shmup... Willy Wombat. It's an interesting isometric platformer with full English voice acting. Steamgear Mash is also fun -- it's an isometric run & gun shooter, pretty much. Also Bulk Slash is good, if you can find it. And yeah, Daytona: Circuit Edition, get if if you like the game. If you like them, also consider some puzzle games like the Puyo Puyo, Taisen Puzzle Dama, and/or Magical Drop games. (fixed, Daytona, not Outrun. :p)
 

AniHawk

Member
i just beat panzer dragoon saga. bravely default and orta spoilers ahoy:

kind of a downer ending. bravely default loses a shitload of points for basically ripping off the concept and doing it worse. am i correct in assuming that the player is given control over the finality of the story? so if they push the power button, the tower is destroyed, azel and edge die, and humanity is given freedom (which is not predetermined be even so much as a cutscene), but if they let it play out, at least azel returns and humanity and the towers continue to exist?

and i guess that means orta is even more of a direct sequel than i thought, since azel is actually her mother. this scene is way more special now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsc7mdI_hpY (with pds music to boot, god damn)

beautiful game though. fun rpg to boot, which is so very rare. i can see why it earned its reputation. i think it says something that 17 years later with a game from this era, when games did not age well, that panzer dragoon saga can still be fun and exciting for a newcomer. really, the only parts that were difficult for me to enjoy were on-foot segments. the saturn was really showing where it struggled the most during those parts.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
PDS meets my one criteria for a good RPG: It never feels like it's wasting my time. It's not the longest game, the most challenging, or has the most interesting story, but it's pretty solid from beginning to end and never feels like it's dragging its feet.
 
i just beat panzer dragoon saga. bravely default and orta spoilers ahoy:

kind of a downer ending. bravely default loses a shitload of points for basically ripping off the concept and doing it worse. am i correct in assuming that the player is given control over the finality of the story? so if they push the power button, the tower is destroyed, azel and edge die, and humanity is given freedom (which is not predetermined be even so much as a cutscene), but if they let it play out, at least azel returns and humanity and the towers continue to exist?

and i guess that means orta is even more of a direct sequel than i thought, since azel is actually her mother. this scene is way more special now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsc7mdI_hpY (with pds music to boot, god damn)

beautiful game though. fun rpg to boot, which is so very rare. i can see why it earned its reputation. i think it says something that 17 years later with a game from this era, when games did not age well, that panzer dragoon saga can still be fun and exciting for a newcomer. really, the only parts that were difficult for me to enjoy were on-foot segments. the saturn was really showing where it struggled the most during those parts.
Fun fact about my playthrough and that ending:
when the Heretic Program told me to "hit the button that begins a new journey", I assumed he meant the Start button, and wound up skipping the scene where Edge gets absorbed into what's left of Sestren. Oops
.

As for that Orta scene,
the jury's still out on who the father was. It's pretty vague as it is, but it doesn't help that the English translation apparently made it sound like Azel was falling for Edge, while in Japan the implication was that her heart was forever for Craymen, even after the Emperor killed him. Either one of those two could've been the man
.

I did mention I had one more gripe with the game that I didn't want to bring up because of spoilers, so for the record, here it is:
I'm not a huge fan of how most of the villages shut off behind you as you progress. The Emperor nukes Zoah in retaliation for your Paet-influenced raids. Gash and the Seekers all but abandon their hideout shortly after you reach it. Even the caravan can empty out if you don't do the sidequest to cure the sick boy, leading to his death (it might empty out regardless, I haven't gone back to check). The result is the endgame is basically an empty world devoid of friendly life, barring one or two shopkeepers that stuck around, which is really off-putting. Although, knowing how cynical Panzer Dragoon can be, that might've been the intended reaction all along.

Lastly:
I really, really did not expect to come out of the game sort of liking Craymen. I mean, yeah, killing all the workers at the start of the game was still a shitty thing to do, and Edge justifiably never really forgives him for it, but the game made it clear that his intentions were in the right place all along, despite his extreme methods. Teaming up with him midway through the game was a pretty big surprise to me, and that the team-up actually seemed legitimately genuine was even bigger.

(Sorry for the big wall of spoiler bars, but I wouldn't want to let slip any of the game's twists for anyone who still wanted to experience it for themselves!)
 

TeaJay

Member
I just picked up the Sega Ages vol 1 collection (PAL version) for 15 €. Are the arcade ports any good? I hear good things about the quality, can't wait to try them out myself once it arrives.
 

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
just woke up from a dream where I found megaman x6 for Saturn at a local game shop, as well as a capcom Juggernaut game. guess i should go get my Saturn (left it at home)

I just picked up the Sega Ages vol 1 collection (PAL version) for 15 €. Are the arcade ports any good? I hear good things about the quality, can't wait to try them out myself once it arrives.
they're perfect or almost perfect
 

Teknoman

Member
I know post this even more often these days, but people are also sleeping on Saturn Bomberman's story mode (or at least I never hear anyone talk about it when they bring up Saturn Bomberman). Not only does it have 2p co-op, but its got a cool time travel premise, amazing music (guess its by Bomberman Hero's composer) and the bosses are actually pretty creative and very nicely animated. Take Cowboy Era for instance. Its a robo-coyote riding a horse tank, and you have to shoot cannons at it while atop a runaway train. The horse rides in and out of the background like something from a high action Treasure game and can even punch the train to freeze everyone.

Top notch stuff.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Random fact: At a very specific time of day, starting a Story Mode game in Saturn Bomberman will give you 6 lives at the beginning instead of 3.
 
i just beat panzer dragoon saga. bravely default and orta spoilers ahoy:

kind of a downer ending. bravely default loses a shitload of points for basically ripping off the concept and doing it worse. am i correct in assuming that the player is given control over the finality of the story? so if they push the power button, the tower is destroyed, azel and edge die, and humanity is given freedom (which is not predetermined be even so much as a cutscene), but if they let it play out, at least azel returns and humanity and the towers continue to exist?

and i guess that means orta is even more of a direct sequel than i thought, since azel is actually her mother. this scene is way more special now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsc7mdI_hpY (with pds music to boot, god damn)

beautiful game though. fun rpg to boot, which is so very rare. i can see why it earned its reputation. i think it says something that 17 years later with a game from this era, when games did not age well, that panzer dragoon saga can still be fun and exciting for a newcomer. really, the only parts that were difficult for me to enjoy were on-foot segments. the saturn was really showing where it struggled the most during those parts.

That wasn't my interpretation of the ending. Even in the not-Yukio Futatsugi penned Panzer Dragoon Orta story, the tower is replaced by a giant hole. In Orta's bonus content the post Saga world is described as having gone through a period of great turmoil before natural elements rebuilt themselves since
the towers used to purify the world for the return of the Ancients
were destroyed. I once had a giant zip file of all the text dumps in that game but I'll be darned if I can figure out which hard drive that's on.

I'd have to go through several years of Panzer Dragoon fansite material to make a case one way or another but my reading of the ending was that
the world is in the process of ending itself
by Panzer Dragoon Saga's conclusion, and Orta had to do a bit of a writing boondoggle to have more stories in this universe.

Generally I think Orta did an alright job of that, but I think it's telling that the principal author of the first three games thinks of Orta as fan fiction, in the same interview that revealed PDS's source code was lost. Partially for the Azel/Edge romance that was inserted in the USA script rewrite, his intent was for
the two characters to never meet again
. I actually like the idea of Orta being Craymen's child and that would have made much more sense in context.

My apologies for the Google cache links, but 1up.com seems to be problematic today, and I'm always concerned that the site's about to shut down for good one of these days.


EDIT: One more thing to add is that the script for the translated Panzer Dragoon Saga was allegedly composed from a poorly translated, literal interpretation of each line of dialogue to poorly written English from Sega of Japan, and rewritten to something more natural sounding by one script writer at Sega of America. In the process, there were hidden South Park jokes, some plot points changed, and other bits added that would absolutely not pass mustard by today's localization standards.

When replaying this game with InfiniteNine, she was amused at the points when the script went completely off the rails from the actual, intended dialogue. This game could use a re-translation, among other things.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Generally I think Orta did an alright job of that, but I think it's telling that the principal author of the first three games thinks of Orta as fan fiction, in the same interview that revealed PDS's source code was lost. Partially for the Azel/Edge romance that was inserted in the USA script rewrite, his intent was for
the two characters to never meet again
. I actually like the idea of Orta being Craymen's child and that would have made much more sense in context.
Really? Well that explains a lot, actually. I didn't think it was bad, but it seemed a bit... forced, maybe.

I remember the South Park joke. "They killed Kenny". xD That said I didn't realize the game was supposed to have a bad translation. I thought the writing was pretty decent compared to other RPGs.
 
I know post this even more often these days, but people are also sleeping on Saturn Bomberman's story mode (or at least I never hear anyone talk about it when they bring up Saturn Bomberman). Not only does it have 2p co-op, but its got a cool time travel premise, amazing music (guess its by Bomberman Hero's composer) and the bosses are actually pretty creative and very nicely animated. Take Cowboy Era for instance. Its a robo-coyote riding a horse tank, and you have to shoot cannons at it while atop a runaway train. The horse rides in and out of the background like something from a high action Treasure game and can even punch the train to freeze everyone.

Top notch stuff.

Agreed, it's the best Bomberman, shame hardly anyone has ever played it. Cover art is attractive to look at as well.


500px-Saturn_Bomberman_US_Box.jpg
 
Really? Well that explains a lot, actually. I didn't think it was bad, but it seemed a bit... forced, maybe.

I remember the South Park joke. "They killed Kenny". xD That said I didn't realize the game was supposed to have a bad translation. I thought the writing was pretty decent compared to other RPGs.

I'm a little reluctant to pull in posts from other forums by ex-Sega employees, but I think this one from Abadd covers it well, with a less biased tone than yours truly. :p

Chris Lucich wasn't the translator, he was the writer (or the "re-writer" if you want to be more accurate) [of Panzer Dragoon Saga]. He doesn't speak Japanese, which made it a challenge for him to rewrite the dialogue from Engrish into proper English.

That being said, when he got the original script translated, the translation was very rough, and much of the dialogue that he wrote had to be written from context of the story that he knew, and from what was going on on-screen.

The final scene in PDS was not meant to show Azel professing her love for Edge, although such a bond could have been and was inevitable.

In the original Japanese, her feelings are more towards Craymen (operative word is more). This does not necessarily mean she had romantic feelings towards him, but if you analyze her actions, she is inexplicably loyal to Craymen.

Though, in the end, she decides to devote herself to helping Edge.

You make the decision on where her heart truly lies.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Interesting. I think Chris did a good job with what he had, FWIW.

What is it with JRPGs shafting their translating teams anyway? The Suikoden 2 translators were given a text dump without any context and had to guess by playing the game and trying to fit the lines... craziness.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Interesting. I think Chris did a good job with what he had, FWIW.

What is it with JRPGs shafting their translating teams anyway? The Suikoden 2 translators were given a text dump without any context and had to guess by playing the game and trying to fit the lines... craziness.

Agness Kaku had to do that with Metal Gear Solid 2.
 
Finally bought a new Saturn to replace my broken one today. Someone on CL was selling one with the region switch mod and 10 CIB JP games and the pack in version of VF1 for $100 flat. Works great, and I'm glad I don't have to use action replay to play Japanese games anymore. That said, outside of Bug, Dragon Force and what seems to be some SMT game (Devil Summoner or something?), I can't make heads or tails of what the other games are. Honestly, I'll probably just flip everything but Bug since I've been meaning to get that anyway.

Got a complete copy of Shenmue for $35 today, too. CL's been uncharacteristically decent for me lately.

Edit: Cant't get the cartridge slot to work. Figured there had to be a catch. I just wanna play MSHvSF, man :/

Edit 2: What the fuck, not even a minute after posting that, the AR booted up. I should complain on GAF more often.
 

MikeMyers

Member
It's not a port as close as Sega Rally is but it's one of my favorite Saturn game (Daytona CE, japanese version).

You know I've actually been wondering, what if the Saturn launched later with VF2 and Sega Rally? It might have gotten a better 1st impression on how it handled 3D.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Just bought a japanese Saturn for use here in Pal-land. Two questions, is it hard to get it to play games from all regions? Also, what is the best solution to powering it?
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Thanks, I knew about that option, but just wanted the recommendation from you pros here in Saturn-gaf. What about the power supply?
 
Just bought a japanese Saturn for use here in Pal-land. Two questions, is it hard to get it to play games from all regions? Also, what is the best solution to powering it?

For the second question : just buy a step-down converter, from 110V to 220V, you don't need a powerful unit, the one I used until I lived in my home country was a 50W which was able to let work even the PS2

tc-50-tranformer-fuse.jpg



from 360 I had to switch to a 100W unit due to the more power needed

type2-step-up-step-down-voltage-converter.jpg




do NOT try to just use a euro cord to power up your Saturn or you will burn it
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
For the second question : just buy a step-down converter, from 110V to 220V, you don't need a powerful unit, the one I used until I lived in my home country was a 50W which was able to let work even the PS2

tc-50-tranformer-fuse.jpg



from 360 I had to switch to a 100W unit due to the more power needed

type2-step-up-step-down-voltage-converter.jpg




do NOT try to just use a euro cord to power up your Saturn or you will burn it

Thanks, that means I should probably get a japanese power cable as well? My Saturn comes without one.Would have hoped I could just get a european plug, but guess the transformer is intern just like on the Dreamcast?
 
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