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Stop Making Me be The Chosen Jesus with a Huge Dick in RPGs (Spoilers for Everything)

Disgraced

Member
It isn't interesting anymore. Gary Stus are S-T-U-P-I-D. I don't want to live your dumb Dragonborn/Mad Jesus/Chosen One/Literal Piece of Poo Elder God/special little flower-snowflake-fantasy, you sweaty, smelly nerd/whoever you are. I don't believe your character's stupidly tragic backstory for a second and I have no reason or capacity to empathize with him.

kc3dPT8.jpg


Fuck you!

It's boring being the center of the universe.

Oh chosen one, only you can do the dumb thing to save us! Oh please, oh Chosen One, oh Hero-Man, only you can punch the Dragon-Dolphin in the dick and light the Candle of Eternal Huge Dicks to save our Big Dick Party!

Fuck the world! Fuck everything! I just want to hang out with my pal Garrus, pork that hot-ass goth tavern wench, pork Garrus, listen to Queen, mine some ore, and at the end of the day just be a regular halfling-miner-dude who owns a little mine and as an ex-solider is good with his ol' rusty axe who's competent enough to kick a mini-Dragon-Dolphin in the cooch and save his small village, then resume his relatively regular-everyday-normal-guy life and get constipated once a month, motherfucker. Halfling-Miner-Dude who gets constipated once a month, has one good eye, a bad knee, a robot-arm, and likes his women with orange hair is a better character than Shepard will ever be no matter how hard anyone tries.

There are two recent mainstream RPGs that haven't done this bullshit:
  • Grand Theft Auto V being the first and best example.
KWnMEdP.jpg


Yes, GTA V is an RPG. Firstly, the stats and broad structure are there, but if you haven't caught on or know what kind of role-playing I'm talking about already, I'm not talking about whatever your thinking. I'm talking about role-playing. GTA V works so much better than you'd probably think for RP because while the characters are ridiculous stereotypes, they're no different than anything else in their world. Everything in the GTA world is satirical, whether it's good at that specifically or not is another debate. But the main point here is that I do think it's good for role-playing, because the player-characters are believable, and natural for the world they exist in, and aside from being proficient at thieving, they're not overtly special or immortal people. And they're written in such a way that the player is allowed/it feels intended to project or role-play a personality/different characters onto them without ham-fisted black & white choices. They all have this, but for example take Trevor since he's the most popular: on one side, he's a completely unhinged, relentless psycho. On the other, he's shown to be honest, loyal, and having something of a chivalric code.

In-game it is almost completely up to the player which parts of his character are emphasized. He can be a relentless, cannibalistic, Jason Voorhees-esque mass murderer, slaughtering civilians and selling people to lunatics in the mountains, or he can never kill anyone who doesn't shoot first and be a relatively regular, eccentric, drug-addicted career criminal. This is all up to the player and it's meaningful, and unique, and most importantly Trevor Philips is not the motherfucking Savior of the Galaxy.


  • The second game(s) I think does this well enough is the Witcher series.
jV7RNMl.jpg


Geralt is a comparatively rough or imperfect example, as his history from the books makes him an A-list celebrity with a piece of every kind of medieval media about him. That's a bit much for an ideal RPG character from get go even with amnesia (don't mean to be condescending, but yes, I know why he has amnesia as a plot device). Point is he's a bit too beefy. But as for his pros as a good role-playing character, he's a mutant, freak, sterile, an outcast, very attractive but only if one's into the extremely gruff, nasty scars-look.

He's an interesting minority with an interesting culture and the player is given a multitude of different ways to define his personality. He's a bit too overpowered since he's basically medieval-Wolverine, but his role-play potential negates most of that in my opinion, especially since he's still incapable of being the god damn Hero of Earth. He can stab a big monster and argue good with a learned bureaucrat, but he's not nearly powerful enough to save the universe and beat up Cthulhu exclusively with his fucking tongue. In my ideal RPG, Geralt is what an endgame player-character should look like.

I hope what I'm saying making sense to somebody, and I hope my examples don't suck. I'm trying to say that too many characters in mainstream RPGs aren't interesting to role-play or even play as. It's a crock of shit. You're supposed to be able to act out an interesting character and escape into an adventure, not somebody else's silly 'power-fantasy.' Character customization is so meaningless. In most games I can't even make a good freak. All my characters are too hot and all I can think about is how I'd rather be masturbating to them than playing them. Where the fuck are my fucked up deformities? Why can't I be fat?

The kind of faux characters in faux role-playing games are even worse in the context of MMORPGs especially with the incorporation of single-player-ish campaigns. I have had some of my best role-playing experiences in The Old Republic but in order to have those experiences everyone has to dismiss their weakly diverse companions and ignore the fact that we're all technically playing as super badass Jedi, Sith, Boba Fetts, Solid Snakes, and James Bonds. That's stupid. In-universe, in any MMORPG why the fuck should anyone respect their guild leader and not trying to constantly overthrow him if we're all just as powerful?

That's all I got. I really wish more people role-played or at least understood what they're missing. ):
 
Blame The Matrix.

As outlandish as your post might sound, I find most of your perspectives perfectly normal in an anomalous sort of way. What you are essentially arguing for is diversified representation of character types and origins. Which is a good fight to fight.
 
I mean, most video game protagonists are going to be involved in huge events. I mean, look at Bruce Willis in Die Hard - would that really happen twice to the same person? No, but it's suspension of disbelief. I really don't think it's that big of a deal, and I think Geralt is a poor example as well because while I haven't finished 3 yet, he basically causes the outcome of two which does have large consequences for the world.
 

Neiteio

Member
It's neat how in Bloodborne, the chosen one actually gets turned into a giant dick.

But only if you eat enough dick and beat the multi-dicked monster that lives in the moon.

My lore might be rusty
 
It's neat how in Bloodborne, the chosen one actually gets turned into a giant dick.

But only if you eat enough dick and beat the multi-dicked monster that lives in the moon.

My lore might be rusty

You have to eat three (3x) dicks. The fourth dick is optional.
 

Disgraced

Member
I mean, most video game protagonists are going to be involved in huge events. I mean, look at Bruce Willis in Die Hard - would that really happen twice to the same person? No, but it's suspension of disbelief. I really don't think it's that big of a deal, and I think Geralt is a poor example as well because while I haven't finished 3 yet, he basically causes the outcome of two which does have large consequences for the world.
That's the thing, I'm not talking about most video game protagonists at all. I'm talking about RPG ones specifically. Too many other-game-kind-of-protagonists have leaked into RPGs and I think that sucks.
 
That's the thing, I'm not talking about most video game protagonists at all. I'm talking about RPG ones specifically. Too many other-game-kind-protagonists have leaked into RPGs and I think that sucks.
I haven't played a lot of older Western RPGs but a lot of JRPGs (including older ones) had protagonists who were usually responsible for the fate of the world. I do think that it would be nice to have some variety but I don't think it's as big of a deal as some other copy paste issues.
 

Disgraced

Member
I haven't played a lot of older Western RPGs but a lot of JRPGs (including older ones) had protagonists who were usually responsible for the fate of the world. I do think that it would be nice to have some variety but I don't think it's as big of a deal as some other copy paste issues.
Yeah, my bad, I should've have specified that I'm talking about Western role-play seeing as the tabletop link wasn't enough.
I respect what you are saying, but not the way you are saying it. The first part of your post give me a headache.
I know. I'm terrible.
 
I haven't played a lot of older Western RPGs but a lot of JRPGs (including older ones) had protagonists who were usually responsible for the fate of the world. I do think that it would be nice to have some variety but I don't think it's as big of a deal as some other copy paste issues.

Chrono Trigger handles this in an interesting way, at least. It subverts the "chosen one" trope by making your titular character the least important and most expendable member of the cast.

Chrono, canonically, will simply
die, and everyone just moves on without him.

It sort of loses its impact because it can be reversed. But the point still remains that even without the main character, life goes on and the world keeps turning. There is no "chosen one," it's the people making the choices.
 

Jintor

Member
Planescape Torment has a nice way around this. You're special, but it's Planescape, so kinda even though you've got this hella unique thing going on kinda everybody's got weird shit going on so it's not that weird what you're doing.

Arcanum also.
lol you're not the reincarnation of the chosen one, the chosen one buggered off to an island somewhere. you're just some guy
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
I disagree with just about everything you said regarding MGSV, however I will agree that I'm tired of "you're the chosen one" plots in RPGs.
 

Disgraced

Member
Planescape Torment has a nice way around this. You're special, but it's Planescape, so kinda even though you've got this hella unique thing going on kinda everybody's got weird shit going on so it's not that weird what you're doing.

Arcanum also.
lol you're not the reincarnation of the chosen one, the chosen one buggered off to an island somewhere. you're just some guy
See, I haven't played Planescape but that is on the bucket list.

I love Arcanum though, Vampire as well.
 

Neiteio

Member
No no no no no.

Not the whore.

THE BABY.

THE BABY YOU HAVE TO KILL TO GET IT.
I didn't see her give birth in my playthrough. I went to talk to her at her house after I had beat Rom, and I think she was gone at that point.
 

Boney

Banned
I mean, FFXII has you play the game from the perspective of a relative inconsequential guy to the story that acts as a perfect fish out of water for the players to learn and understand the world we're playing but everyone bitched about it. It's emasculating to not be the center of the universe because videogames have conditioned us to have all this power fantasies.
It's a damn shame really.
 
Agreed. But
bloodborne and souls series in general
is a bad example. There are many like you, you just happen to finish the game.

Some of the latest Atelier games are also good in this regard.
 

Davide

Member
OP have you played DAI yet?

That's basically all there is to the player character. Shepard was at least awesome and not bland.
 

Ogimachi

Member
Messianic protagonists can be pretty boring, yes, but your concept of RPG is much worse than any of the Gary Stus you're bashing. To each their own.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
The Secret World does a fantastic job of (constantly) reminding you that despite how powerful you are, in the grand scheme of things, you ain't shit.
 
Chrono Trigger handles this in an interesting way, at least. It subverts the "chosen one" trope by making your titular character the least important and most expendable member of the cast.

Chrono, canonically, will simply
die, and everyone just moves on without him.

It sort of loses its impact because it can be reversed. But the point still remains that even without the main character, life goes on and the world keeps turning. There is no "chosen one," it's the people making the choices.
That's pretty cool tbh. I do think it's ripe for subversion. At the same time though I really feel like it's a symptom of the escalation of the industry - getting bigger and more flashy and louder etc. I think a lot of writers/developers would therefore be encouraged to escalate the "stakes" too, leading them to write ridiculous scenarios in which the entire galaxy rests on the shoulder of one person.
 

Neiteio

Member
Agreed. But
bloodborne and souls series in general
is a bad example. There are many like you, you just happen to finish the game.
Actually, Souls/borne totally fits this example. Every game calls you the "chosen undead," blah blah blah.

But whatever, I don't mind, they're among my favorite games ever.
 

Ezalc

Member
Honestly this kind of thing extends to beyond games for me. In any sort of medium whether it's books, movies, even tv shows, cartoons, and anime I absolutely loathe the "person from prophecy" angle. It feels extremely shallow, I feel like it might be one of the reasons I have little desire to read the rest of the Dune series which is supposed to be fantastic. I don't know if it turns that on it's head but in the first book it didn't and that annoyed me. Same could be said for the Kingkiller Chronicles with Kvothe.

I feel like there are very few examples where even though there's a prophecy character like that, I end up enjoying them. Nausicaa being one since the movie doesn't constantly harp on about the prophecy, though it does allude to it more than once.

In games it's much more fun to play as the average joe who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
Listen bruh, everyone man or women, is gonna wanna jump your dick within seconds of meeting you, you're gonna be the most charismatic person on the face if the planet, you're going to be the only one who can beat this godlike being threatening everyone, and you're gonna fucking like it.
 

Servbot24

Banned
I'm fine with playing as a "legend" or "chosen one", but I hate how it's always about saving the world. The world is too big to form a bond with in a game. I would rather save a tribe or village.

Mega Man Legends is a great example. Although there are global implications, your concentration for the entire game is saving a single town. You actually care about saving it because you actually explored every inch of it and talked to everyone in it. It actually matters to me that I save it.
 

Dio

Banned
I know you're talking about WRPGs, but this is why I love Legend of Heroes so much.

Trails in the Sky, you play as a girl training for being essentially part of an organized bodyguard group and travel around helping people in various towns, and stuff far more important than you that you don't have any control over is happening in the background all the time, which makes the world feel that much bigger and indepth.

Trails of Zero/Azure, you play as a law enforcement officer also thrust into a situation with many large things happening.

Trails of Cold Steel, you play as a military academy student and have to watch the country tear itself apart under various political struggles.

The fact that the 'scale' is dialed back in everything so you only ever play these games set in a single country at most means that there is absolutely no 'save the world' or anything, that would be a ridiculous expectation for the people starring in these stories.
 

Jintor

Member
See, I haven't played Planescape but that is on the bucket list.

I love Arcanum though, Vampire as well.

Vampire's probably my favourite because it's an RPG where the entire thing that you do is basically
a (deadly) practical joke the tutorial guy set up because he was bored, intersecting with the various faction plots of everybody else in the city

You are definitely not a chosen one in that game, unless you mean chosen by some dumbshit vampire who got staked in the first cutscene, and then chosen to be disposable meat fodder by pretty much everybody else in the game

Man, that game was so great
 

PSqueak

Banned
Try Undertale, it has a very....unique approach to this trope, you character could KINDA be seen as a chosen one, but as you explore the possibilities of what you can do as the player character, the game basically starts criticising the same bullshit you just criticised. Shit gets Meta as fuck.
 
That's the thing, I'm not talking about most video game protagonists at all. I'm talking about RPG ones specifically. Too many other-game-kind-of-protagonists have leaked into RPGs and I think that sucks.

"Leaked into"? lol, this trope has been around in all RPGs since forever. Maybe you're just noticing it more now?
 
Worst case of recent Gary Stus I experienced recently was FE:Awakening, my god that was through the roof. Couldn't keep playing.
 

theRizzle

Member
If it were an RPG, then I could've skipped that stupid torture minigame. That wasn't me in a role, that was me pushing buttons I didn't particularly feel like pressing so I could finish the game.

Can you explain this a little better? What RPG lets you just skip stuff in a quest/mission?

And of course you are playing a role... you are playing Trevor Phillips, Crazyman.
 
On the contrary, I found Trevor so abhorrent I loathed playing his sections. Just an unlikable asshole who treated everyone like shit and refuses to stay in his lane.
 
Yeah, I hate this, especially in Diablo 3.

It was supposed to be an uphill battle against the demons but it felt more like you were a God in the making.
 

Disgraced

Member
OP have you played DAI yet?

That's basically all there is to the player character. Shepard was at least awesome and not bland.
I have not, I had a hard time with Origins and 2. I like a lot about Origins but gameplay wise I'm not a fan of having what's basically MMO gameplay in a SP game, and I didn't like how the plot seemed like it was basically medieval Mass Effect. 2 I like a lot more, but not for its RPG elements, but pretty much just for the presentation and female Hawke's design. Haven't beat either. And isn't the end goal of Inquisition to save the world? At least that's what I've heard.
 

Breads

Banned
You can't start off with a rant like that and then handwave away Geralt's issues, the perfect embodiment of gary stu, and still have your point be taken seriously.

I do agree with you on everything but you lost me with The Witcher. Liking a thing doesn't excuse the things it does wrong. The Witcher is actually worse than ME in many very specific ways... both series being series I tried really hard to get into but never could (can't relate to fantasy/ sci fi super heroes who take their world and their settings so seriously).

Can you explain this a little better? What RPG lets you just skip stuff in a quest/mission?

Fallout 1 and 2. It's actually incredible just how much of this game is voluntary or how in Fallout 2 how it's even possible to permanently lose quest items to
pickpockets
and still be able to finish the game in one of countless ways.
 

kamineko

Does his best thinking in the flying car
Can you explain this a little better? What RPG lets you just skip stuff in a quest/mission?

And of course you are playing a role... you are playing Trevor Phillips, Crazyman.

Sure, you are right in a sense. But that can be reduced until visual novels are also rpg's, because we are playing a role.

The OP's definition as posted includes both an atypical hero and agency. The player decides how to play the character: "This is all up to the player and it's meaningful, and unique..."

I suppose we could break it down into categories of "choices that I want to make" and "choices I don't care about," but then it is just a matter of personal taste.

As I said, I myself didn't feel particularly empowered or free in my experience of playing Trevor, but I understand the TC's perspective.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
OP have you played DAI yet?

That's basically all there is to the player character. Shepard was at least awesome and not bland.

I would agree although I think they were trying to analyze and deconstruct the trope. People believe you are the Chosen One but,
you quickly realize you're basically just some bloke who was at the wrong place at the right time. Accordingly, you can continue to capitalize on being the Chosen One and accept everyone bowing down to you or try to convince them of the truth.
 

diaspora

Member
I would agree although I think they were trying to analyze and deconstruct the trope. People believe you are the Chosen One but,
you quickly realize you're basically just some bloke who was at the wrong place at the right time. Accordingly, you can continue to capitalize on being the Chosen One and accept everyone bowing down to you or try to convince them of the truth.
This, a big part of DAI is that
you're immortalized as almost a holy being in Thedas in spite of carrying no divinity at all. You don't get to choose your legacy.
 
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